Fed League Mentioned in today's Inde 6-07-08

[MTigers006]

http://www.indeonline.com/local_news/x1872700502/Tigers-to-Fed-may-be-closer-Massillon-officials-began-preparing-for-invite-earlier-this-year

Will this ever just go away and DIE!!!!!!!!!!!! I know times are forcing possible changes but I prefer and im sure there are thousands who agree with me to stay INDEPENDENT. To put it nicely. SCREW THE FEDERAL LEAUGE. Never liked the leauge never will. In short im FED UP with the FED. Besides why join when most of them like Jackson refuse to play us? Lets bury this dead horse and the people in favor of it once and for all. At least one of the supporters is gone. I sure hope Coach Hall isnt a yes man whom so far doesn't give that impression.

[DE#53]

couldn't agree more! Other than McK. What other team in that league make regular runs in the state playoffs? The league is decent at best. They don't throw much and I feel playing in this league does not prepare you to play the"big fish" once the playoffs come around.

And what about those little stadiums. Bring your lawn chairs! Might have 6 home games per season. I think Mck has slipped some since joining the Fed and its from playing lesser opponents week after week. I would be surprised if we get an invite too. They don't want us in there. With Canton Mck and Massillon both in the Fed they have no chance. In short its a step down if we join when it comes to football!

[Banks]

In short its a step down if we join when it comes to football!

You maybe right when it comes to football but there are so many other sports and levels ( as low as the middle school ) that makes the Fed a nice fit.

[mike_da_man13]

You maybe right when it comes to football but there are so many other sports and levels ( as low as the middle school ) that makes the Fed a nice fit.

dont forget he who has the gold rules. why do something that would hurt what brings in the most profit which is easilly football

[MTigers006]

dont forget he who has the gold rules. why do something that would hurt what brings in the most profit which is easilly football

I couldn't agree more Mike.

[CATS44]

Exactly correct.

Football brings in the money to pay for everything else...which is why Massillon and the Fed will soon join hands.

Massillon-Fed games...both home and away...will bring in far more money and the expenses will be a whole lot less...for everybody involved, including the fans.

And MORE Massillon fans will be able to watch the Tigers on the road than can see them now.

[ChronicTiger]

And MORE Massillon fans will be able to watch the Tigers on the road than can see them now.

I doubt the numbers for away games will make a big jump.....

[austinsm11]

And MORE Massillon fans will be able to watch the Tigers on the road than can see them now.

While more fans will be able to travel to FED stadiums due to the shorter distances, how many will actually be able to fit into the FED stadiums?

[Fats]

Exactly correct.

Football brings in the money to pay for everything else...which is why Massillon and the Fed will soon join hands.

Massillon-Fed games...both home and away...will bring in far more money and the expenses will be a whole lot less...for everybody involved, including the fans.

And MORE Massillon fans will be able to watch the Tigers on the road than can see them now.
Hey Cats44
We have had this debate before. To join a league Fed or another league. We need to have ?s answered not just throwing out statements. I have written many a posts on this issue. ?s like - How does less home games make us more money for our football program? We lose revenue from ticket sales, concession sales, 50-50 split. Or, how long will the casual fan buy tickets to see us play a jackson or north canton year after year. Example Playoff at our house against N. Canton, we all know that the N. Canton fans did not show up. IMO our fans want us to play the big time games during the season, these games bring in the fans and keep our reputation as one of the top programs in the state and country. Question - When we play a team that does not bring many fans (ex. Canada, Buchtel) because this game is at home we still sell more Tickets then if we had an away game at Jackson and all the ticket revenue is going to our program.
I agree that it would help our minor sport programs. So maybe the answer would be to join a league and leave our Football program out of the picture.
So to league or not to league needs more discussion and answers to, I think, important questions. A decision to join the FED is to important to just throw out statements or opinions, we need to discuss and study. I have suggested before that we play a partial fed schedule. Schedule Jackson, N. Canton, Perry in a Home/Away contract for a few years and see if it helps or hurts our program. I think we have more to offer the FED than can offer us.

[Perry74]

After you read this story, it's much to do about nothing. Until someone drops out or the league decides to expand to another division, no one can join.

I won't get into the Tiger fans passion for joining or not joining, but I respect the Tigers long football tradition and would like to see them play some Fed teams on a semi-regular basis. While I know many of you may not agree with me, I thought the atmosphere at the playoff games, in 99, 2002 and at Perry a couple of years ago was electric.

IMO, the Massillon administrators and some folks from the public should sit down at some point and time and discuss the pros and cons of joining the Fed or any other league for that matter, getting as much feed back from the Massillon community as possible, that way when the opportunity arises, there's a game plan in place. Also, joining any league is never a lifetime agreement.

Looking forward to the scrimmage this August. After a scrimmage with the Tigers and Ursuline, this Panther fan usually has a pretty good idea what the strengths and weaknesses of the Panthers are.

[CATS44]

Ive given you facts, stats, attendance figures for years.

You point to one Hoover game and ignore the twenty other games with the Fed.

BTW, that Hoover game outdrew an Iggy game here.

Fed teams will bring far more fans than ANY other team on our schedule. And assuming a minimum ticket number of 3000, more fans will be able to see the Tigers on the road now than have been able to over the last decade.

Somehow, a lot of folks hatred blocks out the fact that we seldom come close to taking 3000 fans to an away game. It blocks out the fact that the stadiums we now travel to are not any bigger than most of the Feds.

If you would rather continue to play the Canadian and DC teams, instead of the locals, so be it....but not me. If you would rather take 1500 fans all over the state at $4/gal, so be it...but not me.

A semi permanent schedule easily attainable such as this...

Buchtel/Firestone
Garfield
Glenville
Warren
Hoover
Lake
Jackson
Perry
Glen Oak
McKinley...

Looks a whole lot better than most of the schedules we have had lately....and will make a whole lot more money.

And that schedule gives us six home games one year, and seven the next...pretty much what we have now. Eight of those teams will combine to average well over 10,000 per game at PBTS, and probably closer to 12,000....esp if we stuck a few of them on a Saturday night, when they would be just about the only show in town.

[MTigers006]

Ive given you facts, stats, attendance figures for years.

You point to one Hoover game and ignore the twenty other games with the Fed.

BTW, that Hoover game outdrew an Iggy game here.

Fed teams will bring far more fans than ANY other team on our schedule. And assuming a minimum ticket number of 3000, more fans will be able to see the Tigers on the road now than have been able to over the last decade.

Somehow, a lot of folks hatred blocks out the fact that we seldom come close to taking 3000 fans to an away game. It blocks out the fact that the stadiums we now travel to are not any bigger than most of the Feds.

If you would rather continue to play the Canadian and DC teams, instead of the locals, so be it....but not me. If you would rather take 1500 fans all over the state at $4/gal, so be it...but not me.

A semi permanent schedule easily attainable such as this...

Buchtel/Firestone
Garfield
Glenville
Warren
Hoover
Lake
Jackson
Perry
Glen Oak
McKinley...

Looks a whole lot better than most of the schedules we have had lately....and will make a whole lot more money.

And that schedule gives us six home games one year, and seven the next...pretty much what we have now. Eight of those teams will combine to average well over 10,000 per game at PBTS, and probably closer to 12,000....esp if we stuck a few of them on a Saturday night, when they would be just about the only show in town.

Yes, but where does it prepair us for a playoff run and bring out our strengths? Like I said before. The heck with the FED. We dont need them and never did. Go Tigers.

[mike_da_man13]

Ive given you facts, stats, attendance figures for years.

You point to one Hoover game and ignore the twenty other games with the Fed.

BTW, that Hoover game outdrew an Iggy game here.

Fed teams will bring far more fans than ANY other team on our schedule. And assuming a minimum ticket number of 3000, more fans will be able to see the Tigers on the road now than have been able to over the last decade.

Somehow, a lot of folks hatred blocks out the fact that we seldom come close to taking 3000 fans to an away game. It blocks out the fact that the stadiums we now travel to are not any bigger than most of the Feds.

If you would rather continue to play the Canadian and DC teams, instead of the locals, so be it....but not me. If you would rather take 1500 fans all over the state at $4/gal, so be it...but not me.

A semi permanent schedule easily attainable such as this...

Buchtel/Firestone
Garfield
Glenville
Warren
Hoover
Lake
Jackson
Perry
Glen Oak
McKinley...

Looks a whole lot better than most of the schedules we have had lately....and will make a whole lot more money.

And that schedule gives us six home games one year, and seven the next...pretty much what we have now. Eight of those teams will combine to average well over 10,000 per game at PBTS, and probably closer to 12,000....esp if we stuck a few of them on a Saturday night, when they would be just about the only show in town.

massillon hoover PLAYOFF game just a few years back only brought 12k out to the ball park. i remember games for nobodys that year that drew as many or more people.
hoover fans only show their face when they think they have a chance those 2 out of ten years they can put a team together that can compete the whole game.

[Fats]

Over the last 8 season we have avg. 9,475.
The ? would be if we play a FED schedule would it add to our ticket revenue?
The reason I bring up the N. Canton playoff game, is that it should be an example of how the FED Fan will follow their team. This was a playoff game and the N. C. fans and fellow FED fans did not show up. What makes you think in a regular season game that the number would increase. A playoff game or playing a local team on a non regular basis (I think) makes the numbers invalid in looking at a regular season game. Especially after our Tiger Team has beaten a team on a regular basis. Just look at our record against the FED.
Again, if we play a FED team at their Home, and we get as suggested by Cats44 that we would get 3000 tickets, I would suggest would we get closer to 2000, our revenue would be at say $6 a ticket it brings in 18,000 to 12000. We would also lose concession and 50/50 ticket money(which supports our band). Now if we play a home game and sell 7000 tickets to our fans that brings in $42,000 dollars. So the loss of revenue would be $24,000 not including the other areas of revenue. I know that I am not an accountant and this is simple math .
Now, as for playing games with Warren or St. Iggy we may not bring 3000 fans along(although I think in some years we do) it is not just revenue to look at but the ability to play some TOP TEAMS in the State. That is what MASSILLON TIGER FOOTBALL IS ALL ABOUT! I really think if you took a survey of Tiger Fans and asked what game would you want to attend Massillon vs Jackson or Massillon vs Warren, I may be wrong but I VOTE for Massillon vs Warren.

[PurpleArmy]

Exactly correct.

Football brings in the money to pay for everything else...which is why Massillon and the Fed will soon join hands.

Massillon-Fed games...both home and away...will bring in far more money and the expenses will be a whole lot less...for everybody involved, including the fans.

And MORE Massillon fans will be able to watch the Tigers on the road than can see them now.

I think people with your opinion are in the minority regarding this particular topic. Massillon fans- for the most part- don't want to join the Federal League, and most of the Federal League fans- myself included- believe that our league is fine without Massillon. (No offense meant here- I just don't think we need to add them. The league is too big right now as it is, and unless a few teams leave- we don't have room for another school anyways).

I'm sick to death of this topic and it would be nice if people (like the writers at The Inde) would quit stirring the pot and just let dead dogs lie.

If it ain't broke......

[reofan82]

The federal league makes sense for Massillon in many ways, but the issue of seating for our games worries me. Most of the federal league stadiums are too small for Massillon fans. The games will be in close proximity to Massillon and thousands of tiger fans will want to attend. How will we deal with that issue? That is the main conflict I see. Although travel is somewhat of an issue, why don't we try to build a league with Warren, Boardman and Fitch? It is not the best for middle school sports, but maybe something can be worked out. I hate to see us kiss the feds butt, they act as if there is something wrong with us and we have to rise up to their standards. I was involved in close proximity to Hoover sports programs a few years ago and some of their programs had some stuff going on that were worse than Massillon was accussed of. They did a better job flying under the radar than we did. Also, I saw how the Alliance programs were treated by the fed. They were treated poorly and basically ignored or looked down on. I do not know how they really treat Canton programs. I think the fed adding McKinley was more of a political move than anything. Sometimes the fed's attitude towards us strikes me as a the type of situation where their words say, " Oh, yes, we would love to consider you" but, first you need to jump through all of these hoops", while winking at and nudging each other, knowing there is no real intention of letting us into the club.

[PurpleArmy]

Hey Cats44
We have had this debate before. To join a league Fed or another league. We need to have ?s answered not just throwing out statements. I have written many a posts on this issue. ?s like - How does less home games make us more money for our football program? We lose revenue from ticket sales, concession sales, 50-50 split. Or, how long will the casual fan buy tickets to see us play a jackson or north canton year after year. Example Playoff at our house against N. Canton, we all know that the N. Canton fans did not show up. IMO our fans want us to play the big time games during the season, these games bring in the fans and keep our reputation as one of the top programs in the state and country. Question - When we play a team that does not bring many fans (ex. Canada, Buchtel) because this game is at home we still sell more Tickets then if we had an away game at Jackson and all the ticket revenue is going to our program.
I agree that it would help our minor sport programs. So maybe the answer would be to join a league and leave our Football program out of the picture.
So to league or not to league needs more discussion and answers to, I think, important questions. A decision to join the FED is to important to just throw out statements or opinions, we need to discuss and study. I have suggested before that we play a partial fed schedule. Schedule Jackson, N. Canton, Perry in a Home/Away contract for a few years and see if it helps or hurts our program. I think we have more to offer the FED than can offer us.


You bring up some good points here and ask some very good questions as well. As far as football, I think Massillon is better served staying independent, and scheduling mostly home games. That benefits the football program more than any other scenario mentioned.

As far as Massillon joining the Federal League for all other sports, I don't know if that would beneift or hurt Massillon in the long run. True, it might help the elevate their level of play in sports such as tennis, golf, basketball, softball, track, cross country, etc. but I don't know if Massillon would be able to compete year in and year out with the FL schools in some of those sports, and it could end up hurting their overall records by the end of their season, which would eliminate them from some tournaments and playoff scenarios.

For example, below are the final sports stats for the Federal League schools for the 2007-08 school year.

FINAL ALL-SPORTS STATS

1. Jackson - 138.00 (Winner of Federal League All-Sports Trophy)
2. Hoover - 130.00 (2nd Place- FL All-Sports Award)
3. Boardman - 109.50 (3rd Place- FL All-Sports Award)
4. Perry - 103.50
5. GlenOak - 92.00
6. Lake - 81.50
7. McKinley - 53.50
8. Fitch - 53.00

League Champs by Sport
Football - Hoover
Boys CC - Hoover
Girls CC - Hoover
Girls Golf - Perry
Boys Golf - Lake
Boys Soccer - Jackson
Girls Soccer - Jackson
Girls Tennis - Jackson
Volleyball - Lake/Jackson (tie)
Boys Basketball - Perry
Girls Basketball - Hoover
Wrestling - Perry
Boys Swimming - Hoover
Girls Swimming - GlenOak
Boys Bowling - Boardman
Girls Bowling - Fitch
Baseball - Jackson
Boys Track - Boardman
Girls Track - Jackson
Boys Tennis - Jackson
Softball - Hoover/Jackson (tie)

Final Standings by Sport (21 sports)
1. Jackson - 1st (8), 2nd (4), 3rd (4), 4th (1), 5th (3), 7th (1)
2. Hoover - 1st (6), 2nd (4), 3rd (5), 4th (4), 6th (1), 7th (1)
3. Boardman - 1st (2), 2nd (6), 3rd (1), 4th (4), 5th (5), 6th (2), 7th (1)
4. Perry - 1st (3), 2nd (2), 3rd (4), 4th (3), 5th (2), 6th (7)
5. GlenOak - 1st (1), 2nd (4), 3rd (2), 4th (2), 5th (5), 6th (3), 7th (4)
6. Lake - 1st (2), 2nd (2), 3rd (2), 4th (2), 5th (3), 6th (4), 7th (3), 8th (3)
7. McKinley - 2nd (1), 3rd (1), 4th (2), 5th (3), 6th (3), 7th (3), 8th (8)
8. Fitch - 1st (1), 2nd (1), 3rd (2), 4th (1), 6th (2), 7th (4), 8th (10)

I think that if Massillon were to join the league in all sports except for football, they could compete in basketball, probably baseball, and maybe track. However, putting them on par with Canton McKinley in regards to sports other than football, they might have a difficult time in the league.

McKinley has finished near or at the bottom of the league as far as All Sports honors almost every year they've been a member. They're generally strong in football and basketball, but can't compete with the rest of the league in all the other sports.

Therefore, I don't know how much it would really benefit Massillon to join the league for sports other than football, and I don't think it would benefit them at all to join including football, as they would lose too much money in ticket revenue.

All in all, it seems to be a losing proposition for Massillon to join, which is why I don't get why the Inde is even discussing this again. It just doesn't make sense for anyone involved. :help:

[giant lugey]

I read over and over two main complaints about joining the Fed
1) Will a Fed schedule prepare you for the playoffs
2) The size of their stadiums

I think a Fed schedule will actually help us in playoffs. We don’t want to get beat by a Fed Team, so I think our kids will have to get up for the games week in and week out.
I think that mental preparation will help us in the playoffs. We can still schedule a couple of big name schools like Iggy and Warren, and we will of course have Mck. So to me that argument doesn’t hold water. Besides, if we had any other Div 1 school on our schedule the size of Perry, Jackson, Hoover or GO, no one would be complaining. So what is the big deal?

As far as the stadiums go, most are as big or bigger than Fitch, and we used to play them away every other year, and I never recall those games being sold out. Some fans may get shut out because of the proximity, but some of those same fans wouldn’t have went to an away game if it was 50-60 miles away anyway.

I see nothing wrong with being in a league. If it good enough for Ohio State, it is good enough for us.

[TigerVic]

The one question Fed supporters avoid is: Why don't most of them want to play us, let alone play us on a regular basis, in football?

Why would we want to join a league that doesn't like us? Why would they want us to join their league? (Besides Money)?

[giant lugey]

Well I don't know all the reasons they won't play us on a regular basis, but my guess is one reason is we won't give them a home and home agreement.

We have had alot of former Massillon coaches in the Fed who I think would have played us homa and home.
Rose while at GO
Mauro while at Jackson
Hertler at Hoover
and now that McDaniels is at Jackson, I can't see him shying away from us.

The higher ups though probably want the home and home arangement,and quite frankly, I can't blame them.

[Fats]

Some say this is a dead issue and no need to discuss it any more until we our given an invitation. Waiting until that time will be to late. First, we are not allowed to discuss this topic during the season, second by the time we our asked to join the FED the B. O. E. will have already made their decision.

So, this is the time to discuss and get answers to questions that need to be answered.

[Fats]

I read over and over two main complaints about joining the Fed
1) Will a Fed schedule prepare you for the playoffs
2) The size of their stadiums

I think a Fed schedule will actually help us in playoffs. We don’t want to get beat by a Fed Team, so I think our kids will have to get up for the games week in and week out.
I think that mental preparation will help us in the playoffs. We can still schedule a couple of big name schools like Iggy and Warren, and we will of course have Mck. So to me that argument doesn’t hold water. Besides, if we had any other Div 1 school on our schedule the size of Perry, Jackson, Hoover or GO, no one would be complaining. So what is the big deal?

As far as the stadiums go, most are as big or bigger than Fitch, and we used to play them away every other year, and I never recall those games being sold out. Some fans may get shut out because of the proximity, but some of those same fans wouldn’t have went to an away game if it was 50-60 miles away anyway.

I see nothing wrong with being in a league. If it good enough for Ohio State, it is good enough for us.

I think our record against the FED league speaks for itself.
As for playing big name schools in the regular season, ask McKinley about that. Does our program want to play an Iggy or St. Ed or any other major program in the first 3 weeks of the season.
As for stadium size, you say some fans would be shut out of the close away game, we have close to 4000 season ticket holders so who gets a ticket and who is let out.

I agree, I am not totally against being in a league if it is in the Best Interest of our Tiger Program.

[CATS44]

1) The argument that we shouldnt join the Fed because fans would WANT to see those games is kinda ridiculous, dont you think? That is the general idea, to schedule games that will attract a crowd. Wouldnt we love to have the problem of too many fans?

2) The argument that some of the Fed stadiums wont hold the number of fans that want to see the game, so we shouldnt play in their stadiums, applies equally to PBTS. PBTS wont hold all of the fans that want to see Massillon-McKinley when both teams are on a roll. Are you now advocating that the season finale should be moved to Fawcett whenever it is going to sell out at PBTS?

3) MORE Massillon fans will be able to see the Tigers play at the Fed stadiums than are able to make the trips we now take to places like Cincinnati, Findlay, Fremont, and Cleveland.

4) Playing in the Fed prepared McKinley well enough to get to the state finals a few years back.

5) I really hate to see Massillon people claim that Massillon kids cant compete against other area schools in sports beside football. Its pure BS. The reason that Massillons minor sports teams dont compete well is because the adults in Massillon dont support those sports, and dont demand high achievement. There is absolutely no good reason why we arent competing well in those sports. Our girls sports of track, softball, basketball, and volleyball should be among the elite in the county, but they arent. Its an embarassment, and should be laid at the feet of the culprits, which are us. Its not the Feds fault that we fail in our duties.

6) I researched Mcks attendance figures a few years back, with some help from Dave Dawg. Guess which Pup opponent not named Tigers has drawn the most fans consistently over several decades. If you guess a Fed team with the colors of Green and Gold, you win the Kewpie doll.

7) People like to point to the Hoover game at PBTS as an indication of fan support for such games. But its more of an indication of Massillon fan support and the situation that weekend. We had just come off of a demoralizing butt kicking at the hands (or paws) of the Pups....and the big boys of the week were also playing over at Fawcett. But as a home game, the Hoover matchup drew the third highest attendance of that season, behind WGH (barely) and the Thursday night opener with Dover (a LOCAL team).

8) The Fed schools (Perry, Jackson, Hoover) have been our biggest draw over the last two decades, not counting MCK. these are the attendances listed for Massillon vs those three schools, played at either PBTS or the Drip, since 1990....

8954
17,000
18,000
18,000
17,000
14,185
12,250

9) These are the regular season attendance figures for the ten games with Perry....

17,930
16,454
16,333
14,653
14,141
12,500
14,862
15,638
14,185
18,000

Doesnt look like the interest died out, does it?

10) Solving any ticket distribution problems is not that difficult. Simply offer two season ticket plans. A home game plan and a ten game plan. Those that want to see an away Fed game wont be allowed to cherry pick. If you want tix to an away game, buy the ten game package.

Do like nearly every other big time sports team does. No phone orders for season tix....first come, first serve, via mail ONLY...determined by the posting date. No long lines, and if you dont have a season ticket, you dont get a shot at the games with limited seating. That includes EVERYBODY...teachers, administrators, BOE members, students, parents, BC officers, city officials. No comp tix for those games...none, nada, zip.

We should have done that for playoff games years ago....and we would have eliminated all the horse feathers about long lines and ticket skimming.

[austinsm11]

5) I really hate to see Massillon people claim that Massillon kids cant compete against other area schools in sports beside football. Its pure BS. The reason that Massillons minor sports teams dont compete well is because the adults in Massillon dont support those sports, and dont demand high achievement. There is absolutely no good reason why we arent competing well in those sports. Our girls sports of track, softball, basketball, and volleyball should be among the elite in the county, but they arent. Its an embarassment, and should be laid at the feet of the culprits, which are us. Its not the Feds fault that we fail in our duties.


So if the reason these sports aren't good now is because the adults don't support those sports now, why will they if we join the FED? It doesn't seem to have helped McKinley's other sports.

You really think those girls sports should be the elite of the county?

[austinsm11]

2) The argument that some of the Fed stadiums wont hold the number of fans that want to see the game, so we shouldnt play in their stadiums, applies equally to PBTS. PBTS wont hold all of the fans that want to see Massillon-McKinley when both teams are on a roll. Are you now advocating that the season finale should be moved to Fawcett whenever it is going to sell out at PBTS?


Which is one game every how many years????

Fans won't be able to get into FED stadiums on a yearly basis.

[austinsm11]

4) Playing in the Fed prepared McKinley well enough to get to the state finals a few years back.


Playing as an independent prepared Massillon well enough to get to the state finals a few years back.

[Smitty]

Playing as an independent prepared Massillon well enough to get to the state finals a few years back.

The regular season schedule should have 2 functions:

1.) be "tough" enough to get enough Harbin points to qualify for the playoffs; and
2.) be "weak" enough so the team is healthy going into the playoffs.

With teams such as McK, Warren, Mentor, Buchtel, & the occasional "Herbstreit Challenge" opponent, there is sufficient toughness there.

I'd delete all the private school opponents (Iggy, Ursuline, Moe, etc.) from our schedule 'til Hell freezes over. IMO we don't need to see 'em in the regular season (& get screwed twice).

We don't NEED a league. Sadly, the ol' AAC isn't comming back.

I'd be greatly in favor of the Fed adding both Massillon & Warren, then creating a 2-tier football schedule, kinda like the SEC has.

[PurpleArmy]

Well I don't know all the reasons they won't play us on a regular basis, but my guess is one reason is we won't give them a home and home agreement.

We have had alot of former Massillon coaches in the Fed who I think would have played us homa and home.
Rose while at GO
Mauro while at Jackson
Hertler at Hoover
and now that McDaniels is at Jackson, I can't see him shying away from us.

The higher ups though probably want the home and home arangement,and quite frankly, I can't blame them.

This is what I had heard was the issue as far as Jackson not playing Massillon.

Now, I can't speak for other schools, but I had heard that a few years ago, Jackson and Massillon both had week 1 open. Massillon inquired with Mauro about playing Jackson, and Mauro was fine with it.

However, it was rumored to have been a 3 year series and Jackson was OK with 2 games at Mass. and one game at Fife, but Mass. wanted all 3 games at their stadium, so Jackson decided against the series if they couldn't have at least 1 home game out of a 3 year series.

Now, this could be wrong, as I heard it from someone who may not have had correct information. However, they got their information from someone who was in Sideliners, so...

[freddy g]

The private schools are always going to be there, and IMO will never go to their own division. They always say to be the best you have to beat the best. I still think their should be a public/private league. I know it probally will never happen but how about teams like...

Massillon
McKinley
WGH
Mentor
Iggy
Ed's
Mooney
Ursuline

That gives you 4 of each, private/public. Two from Stark, three from around Cleveland, and three froma round Youngstown. All the teams play each other in many sports already. And it would help with all of our scheduling problems.

[DAWGH8R]

That gives you 4 of each, private/public. Two from Stark, three from around Cleveland, and three froma round Youngstown. All the teams play each other in many sports already. And it would help with all of our scheduling problems.


Nobody in their right mind , would approve a league like this. At $5 a gallon for diesel fuel , see how fast the 'far-aways' in the FED drop out. Those buses don't run on air !!:iagree:

[freddy g]

That's why I said it will probally never happen. But we do play 5 of the mentioned 7 teams allready.

I really don't think we need to join the Fed though. We usually don't have that hard of a time finding opponents for football. The only reason I think it would help to join is for the other sports. But from my knowledge, our schedules in basketball, baseball, softball, soccer, tennis, track, and all the others. Consist of McK, GlenOak, Perry, Lake, Hoover, Jackson. So why would we need to join the Fed? Just for football? We play four away games and thats a big hit on the money that's coming into the program.

[Fats]

That's why I said it will probally never happen. But we do play 5 of the mentioned 7 teams allready.

I really don't think we need to join the Fed though. We usually don't have that hard of a time finding opponents for football. The only reason I think it would help to join is for the other sports. But from my knowledge, our schedules in basketball, baseball, softball, soccer, tennis, track, and all the others. Consist of McK, GlenOak, Perry, Lake, Hoover, Jackson. So why would we need to join the Fed? Just for football? We play four away games and thats a big hit on the money that's coming into the program.


Good post Freddy G. We have not had a scheduling problem in football, or I believe in any sport. We do play a lot of FED teams in the other sports.
So I totally agree we do not need the FED.

[MTigers006]

That's why I said it will probally never happen. But we do play 5 of the mentioned 7 teams allready.

I really don't think we need to join the Fed though. We usually don't have that hard of a time finding opponents for football. The only reason I think it would help to join is for the other sports. But from my knowledge, our schedules in basketball, baseball, softball, soccer, tennis, track, and all the others. Consist of McK, GlenOak, Perry, Lake, Hoover, Jackson. So why would we need to join the Fed? Just for football? We play four away games and thats a big hit on the money that's coming into the program.

I remember a time when we only had two away games. About schedule problems. It just comes down from someone being lazy and not doing thier job and picking up the phone. There are teams who would welcome playing us. Some who are just plain chicken like the brass at Stubenville and Jackson.

[giant lugey]

I am curious to know how the student athletes at WHS feel about this topic.
Not just the football players, but all of the athletes.

Could someone set up a poll on Massillon Proud, for Massillon Athletes only, to vote yea or nay to the Fed.

I would do it, but I don’t know how.

[TigerCoach]

I remember a time when we only had two away games. About schedule problems. It just comes down from someone being lazy and not doing thier job and picking up the phone. There are teams who would welcome playing us. Some who are just plain chicken like the brass at Stubenville and Jackson.

That's a pretty narrow-minded view of the entire program. I don't know if you were aware, but there are many other sports that Massillon kids participate in. I'm on the side now of joining the Fed for the benefit of the entire program and the school district.

[Fats]

That's a pretty narrow-minded view of the entire program. I don't know if you were aware, but there are many other sports that Massillon kids participate in. I'm on the side now of joining the Fed for the benefit of the entire program and the school district.

TigerCoach
Just wanted to ask. Why would joining the Fed help our other sports programs and are entire school district?

IMO joining the Fed in all sports besides football may be beneficial for our sports programs and the school system. The Fed usually produces good programs in the minor sports ex. track, baseball, basketball(I consider BB major) and softball, so I think this may help to improve our programs. Less travel, these sports are not the revenue producers like our Football Program so travel cost does affect these sports more.

I also feel that Massillon does not support the minor programs like they should. My kids were in Track and Cross Country and the coaches were great but the financial support of the teams by the school could have been better.
Massillon should have the best that is available for all of our sports.
TigerCoach, really interested in your opinion.

[TigerCoach]

TigerCoach
Just wanted to ask. Why would joining the Fed help our other sports programs and are entire school district?

IMO joining the Fed in all sports besides football may be beneficial for our sports programs and the school system. The Fed usually produces good programs in the minor sports ex. track, baseball, basketball(I consider BB major) and softball, so I think this may help to improve our programs. Less travel, these sports are not the revenue producers like our Football Program so travel cost does affect these sports more.

I also feel that Massillon does not support the minor programs like they should. My kids were in Track and Cross Country and the coaches were great but the financial support of the teams by the school could have been better.
Massillon should have the best that is available for all of our sports.
TigerCoach, really interested in your opinion.

I think you just answered your own question. It's good financially and competitively for the entire school district, not just the football program.

Your idea of joining the Fed in everything but football WILL NEVER HAPPEN, so we have to adapt to it. Even with a 7-game Fed schedule, we have 3 independent games to schedule Warren, St. Iggy, St. Ed's or whoever each year. I feel it would be an improvement over what we've done in the past.

[CATS44]

We DONT have a problem scheduling now?

What planet are you living on?

Its a problem when we are traveling to Cincinnati and places like Findlay in order to fill schedules. Its a problem when we are constantly bringing in OOS and Canadian teams with no chance of being competitive and no chance of bringing any fans. Its a problem when we are bringing less than 2000 of our own fans on the road. Its a problem when we are forced to schedule huge parochials constsantly.

As for the Fed not preparing us for a run thru the playoffs, please let me know the last time we won a state title.

Also, tell me how many independent public schools that have not been consolidated have won a D1 state title in the past twenty five years.

And tell me how many of the public schools on our 2008 schedule have ever won a d1 state title in the past twenty five years.

Look at the schedule I proposed and compare it to the 2008 schedule. Four of the teams are the same...McK, WGH, Bucthel, Garfield. Glenville is now just as good annually as Iggy and Mentor, and we get Glenville at home every year.

Joining the Fed would mean trading Hoover, Perry, Jackson, Glenoak, and Lake for Mentor, OOS, Ursuline, Normandy, and Canada. The Fed teams are an overall upgrade from the group we have now.

Mentor lived on one great class for two years, and they would be a consistent upper level Fed team. Ursuline would be up and down. Normandy couldnt win consistently in the Fed....and it is unlikely that the Beetdiggers could, either. Canada wouldnt win a game in the Fed for the next ten years.

And, yes. Our girls program SHOULD be one of the elite in the county year in and year out. It is a black mark on our community that our girls program isnt. Somebody will have to come up with a very good reason why softball, basketball, track, and volleyball cant be competitive. We certainly have a good pool of female athletes, and we now have a freaking year round facility.

If Massillon ever got serious about anything besides football, we should consistently be among the best in the county in football, basketball, baseball, track, softball, volleyball, girls basketball, girls track, and golf.

[reofan82]

I am sure scheduling opponents for middle school sports is still a problem. This is where being in a league would really help. Also, being able to shoot for a conference title in all sports at all levels will really help our kids. I believe we will have to put more time and energy into some of our less noticed sports or we will be consistant doormats in the federal league in those sports.

[TigerCoach]

I agree with CATS44. It's a real shame that Massillonians only value the football program. I'm glad I don't have daughters that play sports in Massillon.

[austinsm11]

And, yes. Our girls program SHOULD be one of the elite in the county year in and year out. It is a black mark on our community that our girls program isnt. Somebody will have to come up with a very good reason why softball, basketball, track, and volleyball cant be competitive. We certainly have a good pool of female athletes, and we now have a freaking year round facility.

If Massillon ever got serious about anything besides football, we should consistently be among the best in the county in football, basketball, baseball, track, softball, volleyball, girls basketball, girls track, and golf.

With many of the sports it is about money. More kids in the FED schools have money to play on good club teams and hire private/professional coaches.

I will agree that there needs to be more of a commitment to the overall development of these programs. Look at the younger levels of Hoover's softball program, Jackson's soccer program, Perry's wrestling program. I don't think you will see much of that in any of the youth programs in Massillon.

[ChronicTiger]

Sounds like it is time to bring back:

C.A.A.T.S.

:tig:

[mike_da_man13]

We DONT have a problem scheduling now?

What planet are you living on?

Its a problem when we are traveling to Cincinnati and places like Findlay in order to fill schedules. Its a problem when we are constantly bringing in OOS and Canadian teams with no chance of being competitive and no chance of bringing any fans. Its a problem when we are bringing less than 2000 of our own fans on the road. Its a problem when we are forced to schedule huge parochials constsantly.

As for the Fed not preparing us for a run thru the playoffs, please let me know the last time we won a state title.

Also, tell me how many independent public schools that have not been consolidated have won a D1 state title in the past twenty five years.

And tell me how many of the public schools on our 2008 schedule have ever won a d1 state title in the past twenty five years.

Look at the schedule I proposed and compare it to the 2008 schedule. Four of the teams are the same...McK, WGH, Bucthel, Garfield. Glenville is now just as good annually as Iggy and Mentor, and we get Glenville at home every year.

Joining the Fed would mean trading Hoover, Perry, Jackson, Glenoak, and Lake for Mentor, OOS, Ursuline, Normandy, and Canada. The Fed teams are an overall upgrade from the group we have now.

Mentor lived on one great class for two years, and they would be a consistent upper level Fed team. Ursuline would be up and down. Normandy couldnt win consistently in the Fed....and it is unlikely that the Beetdiggers could, either. Canada wouldnt win a game in the Fed for the next ten years.

And, yes. Our girls program SHOULD be one of the elite in the county year in and year out. It is a black mark on our community that our girls program isnt. Somebody will have to come up with a very good reason why softball, basketball, track, and volleyball cant be competitive. We certainly have a good pool of female athletes, and we now have a freaking year round facility.

If Massillon ever got serious about anything besides football, we should consistently be among the best in the county in football, basketball, baseball, track, softball, volleyball, girls basketball, girls track, and golf.

first paragraph: so what i like the road trips
second paragraph: glenville is yet to go anywhere in the playoffs.

the rest: last time i checked we have had a baseball, basketball, football, track and golf team that could hold their own. idk when you graduated from washington high school but when i did the classes were male dominated by alot. which means:
A) girls aren't showing up to school
b) there just aren't many girls in my graduating class
c) most girls attending massillon washington were special(take your pick super smart or window lickers)
d) final reason ok smart guy in case you haven't noticed our musical arts program is among the finest in the country and that is very demanding trust me i know i had to drive my sister to vocal lessons and band practice. before you rip on our girls programs you should realize that just because its not your typical sport doesn't make it any less meaningfull to the people participating. to me its not suprising that are girls sports stink but we have a great womens corus, put on awesome musicals that you have to choose a winter sport and at times spring sport or that. How could i forget swing band which draws away from cross country on both accounts you have to look at the big picture.

and closing thoughts joining the league wont solve any problems. i mean look at mck minor sports i mean they just took off i haven't seen success from an inner city public school ever!!!!!!!! :rockon:

[DaveDawg]

... i mean look at mck minor sports i mean they just took off i haven't seen success from an inner city public school ever!!!!!!!! :rockon:

What?

[mike_da_man13]

What?

the impression that massillon people seem to have is once we join the fed people will care about the minor sports all of the sudden. i think thats just not true. they say it will make our minor sports better overall and i think that fitch and mck are two examples of how they have not really improved in the minor sports since joining the federal league.

[DaveDawg]

Well, it depends (speaking on this level of non-rev sports, to be clear) what you mean by success.

And you know what's even more strange, CATS44 can better answer this question for me, yep.

I will tell you this, the Federal League is a tough conference in each sport that is offered to its members, very tough.

Our middle school kids that were in 7th and 8th grade when McKinley got into the league are just now coming into their own on varsity levels, and they may take this participation in a conference better than the students ahead of them did. Hoover, Jackson, Perry etc are all fimiliar with each other and league play, it's what they have ALWAYS had, this is new still at McKinley.
The success is in the scheduling of the non-rev sports and having something to play for and knowing who you are playing as the years go by and what you need to do to improve to win in such conference.

The wins will come or maybe they won't, but the competition is fierce.

As for who cares more about those sports because now you are a conference member?
Still the same... loyal fans, great supporting parents and students, friends, and when you win the message boards light up, you lose, they don't go around and offer up the heads of the coaching staff until they win.

Football and boys/girls basketball are on a different level and get a different discussion, beacuse of money and how much of it that it brings in.

[CarlE]

ANOTHER great post by DaveDawg. Folks, this is the ultimate McKinley fan so when he posts something like the above you can take it as gospel. It sounds like outside of football, which I've always stated, joining the Fed may not be a bad idea after all.

[TigerCoach]

Mike, Your not in touch with reality and your posts just support your lack of support for "minor sports" and females.

[DE#53]

If we should join and I hope we don't, then we must spend more money and provide more resources for all other sports if we are to be competitive. the smaller sports in the Federal League are well funded and supported. They have off season programs that include money for professional instructors i.e. tennis, golf, baseball, etc... We would take our lumps for a while till our overall sports program improved. I just would be very concerned I the kids' interest would stay positive during this "building process". Getting pounded by better prepared competition could damage a program. But on the other side if you can weather the storm you might come out stronger in the long run. Anyway, if it does happen then I really hope the people that have the control will make the right decisions with money and coaching to bring these other sports programs up to a more competitive level.

[TigerCoach]

I'd like to know why you would need outside trainers, professional coaches, and more money in general to have success at the "other sports" besides football? Why do we also need extravagant youth programs that have travel teams and private coaches?

How much money does it take to fund a tennis team? Shirts, rackets, balls

How about golf? I'm sure there are plenty of golf clubs sitting around doing nothing that can be donated. Heck, I have a set of Ping's that was used by a player on the Nationwide Tour that I haven't used much in 3 years.

Same with basketball, swimming, softball and soccer. You don't need a corporate sponsor to field teams in these sports.

Back when Tiger Football dominated the world (the 50's - 1985), we had no youth football program other than the Jr. highs. We had no specialized camps and private coaches. We had each other to compete with and get better.

What ever happened to moms & dads in the backyard and at school yards playing and teaching the kids to play sports, then allowing their interests to continue getting better?

[austinsm11]

I'd like to know why you would need outside trainers, professional coaches, and more money in general to have success at the "other sports" besides football? Why do we also need extravagant youth programs that have travel teams and private coaches?



I think you are missing the point.

You don't need all that. But do you think our teams will be as competitive with FED teams that do have those things?

How can our tennis team be competitive with Jackson/Hoover when most, if not all, of those kids have private lessons with private/professional coaches and play year round. They also get the benefit of better competition.

How can our soccer team be competive with Jackson when Jackson has one of the better youth programs in the state to go along with parents willing to pay the money to have their kids on Cleveland club teams that play the best teams in the state?

How can our softball teams be competitive with Hoover/Jackson/Lake/Perry when all of those girls play on travel teams and those schools have good youth programs?


DE#3 is right on with his post.

[austinsm11]

You don't need a corporate sponsor to field teams in these sports.



Again, we aren't talking about fielding these sports. We already do that. We are talking about being competitive.

[TigerCoach]

You don't need all that. But do you think our teams will be as competitive with FED teams that do have those things?


Yes, I do. There is no difference physically (size, speed, strength, etc) in the kids who play sports at Massillon and at Jackson, Perry or wherever. The difference is all phsychological. No better case can be made than in the football programs. Jackson kids and other kids may have more money in the family, but the real seperation is on EXPECTATIONS.

Tiger football players understand (at least they used to) that the expectation was to win the state championship and dominate everybody they play.

If kids that play these other sports had coaches, fans and parents urging them on and pushing them them the way we do in football, they would be very competitive.

In high school sports, it's all about setting the bar high. We've gone for generations saying that sports other than football existed simply to keep football players in shape. (I've even kidded about that!) That logic is unfair and discrimatory to the kids that don't play football.

[austinsm11]

Yes, I do. There is no difference physically (size, speed, strength, etc) in the kids who play sports at Massillon and at Jackson, Perry or wherever. The difference is all phsychological. No better case can be made than in the football programs. Jackson kids and other kids may have more money in the family, but the real seperation is on EXPECTATIONS.

Tiger football players understand (at least they used to) that the expectation was to win the state championship and dominate everybody they play.

If kids that play these other sports had coaches, fans and parents urging them on and pushing them them the way we do in football, they would be very competitive.

In high school sports, it's all about setting the bar high. We've gone for generations saying that sports other than football existed simply to keep football players in shape. (I've even kidded about that!) That logic is unfair and discrimatory to the kids that don't play football.

Ok, so let's stick with soccer since that is more of my background.

You think that the kids at Massillon, most of whom don't play soccer for a club team and have only played rec. ball, can compete with Jackson, most of whom have played since age 5, play club ball, and many are on the OYSA-N state team? All it takes is a few fans to show up and cheer them on and they can compete?

[austinsm11]

. There is no difference physically (size, speed, strength, etc) in the kids who play sports at Massillon and at Jackson, Perry or wherever.

Actually there is if you are looking at the "other" sports. Compare the lifting and conditioning programs for the other sports to those at Massillon. I bet you will notice a difference.

I'm willing to bet the overall speed of the Jackson tennis team is better than that of Massillon. I'm willing to bet the overall speed/strengh of the Jackson soccer team is better than that of Massillon. I'm willing to bet the speed/strength of Hoover/Lake/Perry softball teams are better than that of Massillon.

Could they be equal in these areas? Sure, but as DE#3 pointed out it will take some time and committment.

[austinsm11]

In high school sports, it's all about setting the bar high. We've gone for generations saying that sports other than football existed simply to keep football players in shape. (I've even kidded about that!) That logic is unfair and discrimatory to the kids that don't play football.

I agree, but it has to come from everyone....parents, students, fans, school, school board....everyone.

I lost most hope in this when the soccer field for the varsity team was also converted into a football field for youth football games, complete with the dorky soccergoal/fieldgoal posts.

[Kamd50]

I know several girls who have played tennis for Massillon in the very recent past, and all of the ones that I know, as well as a few of the guys, also had private lessons and played for other teams/clubs other than the highschool as well as swimmers. And as someone else mentioned, our golf team has been quite competitive as well.

It seems to me that there is a common misconception that the majority of the kids that go to Massillon schools and participate in extra curriculars either cannot afford or have parents who do not put out the money for private lessons, etc. While that may be true in some cases, let me tell you there are plenty of our students who take part in private lessons in everything from gymnastics, baseball, voice, competitive cheer, golf, football camps, etc. etc.

Actually, that might be part of the reason some of our teams do not do as well as some in the community think they should. A lot of these kids choose to participate in these outside programs only and do not try out for the school's teams. That is something that has always bothered me ever since my own started attending WHS for their highschool years. Exactly why they do not choose to participate in the school's athletics, I don't really know for sure. I am sure there are as many different reasons as there are kids.

[austinsm11]

I know several girls who have played tennis for Massillon in the very recent past, and all of the ones that I know, as well as a few of the guys, also had private lessons and played for other teams/clubs other than the highschool as well as swimmers. And as someone else mentioned, our golf team has been quite competitive as well.

It seems to me that there is a common misconception that the majority of the kids that go to Massillon schools and participate in extra curriculars either cannot afford or have parents who do not put out the money for private lessons, etc. While that may be true in some cases, let me tell you there are plenty of our students who take part in private lessons in everything from gymnastics, baseball, voice, competitive cheer, golf, football camps, etc. etc.

Actually, that might be part of the reason some of our teams do not do as well as some in the community think they should. A lot of these kids choose to participate in these outside programs only and do not try out for the school's teams. That is something that has always bothered me ever since my own started attending WHS for their highschool years. Exactly why they do not choose to participate in the school's athletics, I don't really know for sure. I am sure there are as many different reasons as there are kids.

There is a difference between several girls or boys doing this at Massillon and the whole entire teams at Jackson or Hoover doing this. There were several boys at Massillon who played club soccer. That didn't compare to Jackson where EVERYONE played club soccer. The other issue is what kind of private lessons or team they are on. The soccer players at Massillon played on weak club teams while kids at Jackson, Hoover, etc. played for and against the best teams in the state.

You say there is a misconception, so I will ask. Do a majority of the kids in these sports play on private teams, get private lessons, etc.?

Also, back to another point. How are the Massillon youth programs doing? Does the head coach at the high school have much involvement in them? How much?

[TigerCoach]

There's no denying that anything you want to get good at takes time, money and commitment. I just think that the need for specialized coaching, youth programs from age 5, etc are not a necessity. Jackson kids may be good at soccer because they emphasize soccer and are expected to do good.

That's my point............It's the expectations and standards that are placed on kids that will make them excel, not how much money they put into the training and coaching of it.

When I played Jr. High football (for the mighty LA Green Dragons) and the Tigers, my biggest fear in life was losing. It just wasn't going to happen if I had anything to do with it. Especially to Canton, Perry, Alliance and Barberton schools (Perry was the only Fed school that would play us). I didn't worry about not having clean clothes to wear or a warm dinner to eat, I just wasn't going to lose. Those self-imposed expectations are what makes a kid excel.

[austinsm11]

There's no denying that anything you want to get good at takes time, money and commitment. I just think that the need for specialized coaching, youth programs from age 5, etc are not a necessity. Jackson kids may be good at soccer because they emphasize soccer and are expected to do good.

That's my point............It's the expectations and standards that are placed on kids that will make them excel, not how much money they put into the training and coaching of it.


Sorry but you can have all the expectations in the world, but you need time, money, specialized coaching, commitment, etc. before the expectations will come. Why would the soccer team expect to do well when their own field is taken over by youth football?

I hated to lose as well. My club team won many tournaments all over the state as well as in Michigan, New York, Pa, etc. My club teams NEVER had a losing season. High School was different and I knew darn well that no matter how well I played, my team was not going to beat these other teams. That didn't stop me from playing my hardest. Losing by 10 goals to Lake and Hoover was tough, but I left the field with both of those coaches telling me that I was the best player on the field that night. That really meant something. No matter how hard I played against these types of opponents, we weren't going to win. I'm just being real. But I played as hard as I could to prove that I belonged with them.

I don't think you realize how different football is from the other sports. You may have been the best player on your team, but you also knew that he had many other players to support you that were just as good. Players who grew up playing flag football, midget football, going to Massillon football camps. What if half your team had never even touched a football until high school? That was the reality of my first year. You still think the teams you were on would have done that well?

And back to the support of these programs: How many Massillon soccer games have you attended?

[Kamd50]

There is a difference between several girls or boys doing this at Massillon and the whole entire teams at Jackson or Hoover doing this. There were several boys at Massillon who played club soccer. That didn't compare to Jackson where EVERYONE played club soccer. The other issue is what kind of private lessons or team they are on. The soccer players at Massillon played on weak club teams while kids at Jackson, Hoover, etc. played for and against the best teams in the state.

You say there is a misconception, so I will ask. Do a majority of the kids in these sports play on private teams, get private lessons, etc.?

Also, back to another point. How are the Massillon youth programs doing? Does the head coach at the high school have much involvement in them? How much?

I don't have statistics for you but I do know that a lot of kids that go to Massillon schools do get private lessons for many athletic as well as other extra curriculars, which I have already said. Some people act like everyone in the Massillon school system is poor or something. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a good mix of all economic backgrounds. And quite honestly, I know a good number of kids who played sports in middle school/jr high and dropped out of them after their freshmen years. For some reason, a lot of them, especially the girls, just either lose or shift their interests as they get older. At least from what I have seen the past 10 years or so.

[austinsm11]

I don't have statistics for you but I do know that a lot of kids that go to Massillon schools do get private lessons for many athletic as well as other extra curriculars, which I have already said. Some people act like everyone in the Massillon school system is poor or something. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a good mix of all economic backgrounds. And quite honestly, I know a good number of kids who played sports in middle school/jr high and dropped out of them after their freshmen years. For some reason, a lot of them, especially the girls, just either lose or shift their interests as they get older. At least from what I have seen the past 10 years or so.

I know that not everyone in Massillon is poor. But when you only have a few (maybe even several) players who are getting that added benefit compared to whole entire teams at other schools, then Massillon is at a disadvantage.

But it isn't all about money either. Look at the youth programs for Jackson soccer, Hoover softball/basketball, Perry wrestling. We don't have those in Massillon.

I know for a fact that a coach with professional playing experience applied for the soccer position when the program first started. You can't get much more qualified than that for a first year program. He didn't get the job.

I think there is still that stereotype that football is king and nothing else is good enough. I had a kid show up late to practice and his comment was, "It isn't like this is football." I about hit the roof.

If kids are quitting after middle school, it does need to be looked into. Perhaps some decide that they need to go a more academic route even though many athletes are top scholars and can handle both.

[austinsm11]

I still say that DE#3 is dead on with his post. If Massillon joins the FED for the other sports, they will get drilled. If everyone is committed to improving these sports and is willing to weather 4-5 seasons of losing to gain youth development, youth programs, and gain more experience, then they will be ok. Many people aren't that patient and sadly many in Massillon don't care enough about the other sports.

[TigerCoach]

I still say that DE#3 is dead on with his post. If Massillon joins the FED for the other sports, they will get drilled. If everyone is committed to improving these sports and is willing to weather 4-5 seasons of losing to gain youth development, youth programs, and gain more experience, then they will be ok. Many people aren't that patient and sadly many in Massillon don't care enough about the other sports.

I respectfully disagree. There may be a sport or two (soccer, softball?) but in general, I think Tiger sports across the board would be very competitive. Sure, they won't be dominant like football, but they'll be competitive.

Your last sentence makes my point. We need people to care more about the "other sports" in town. That, I agree with.

[austinsm11]

I respectfully disagree. There may be a sport or two (soccer, softball?) but in general, I think Tiger sports across the board would be very competitive. Sure, they won't be dominant like football, but they'll be competitive.

Your last sentence makes my point. We need people to care more about the "other sports" in town. That, I agree with.

Really? Tennis? Cross Country? girls basketball? wrestling? volleyball? Gymnastics? ( I will say that I can't figure out why baseball hasn't done better.)


I guess I need to ask what being competitive means to you? Top 3? Middle of the pack?

[austinsm11]

So why can't soccer or softball be competitive if others can? What is the difference?

[TigerCoach]

High School was different and I knew darn well that no matter how well I played, my team was not going to beat these other teams.

I don't think you realize how different football is from the other sports. You may have been the best player on your team, but you also knew that he had many other players to support you that were just as good. Players who grew up playing flag football, midget football, going to Massillon football camps. What if half your team had never even touched a football until high school? That was the reality of my first year. You still think the teams you were on would have done that well?

And back to the support of these programs: How many Massillon soccer games have you attended?

OK, that mindset that you had in high school is what i'm talking about. Sure, you need other players around you in a team sport, but if the expectation is there from the start, that develops over time. I grew up in a neighborhood of 12 guys, all with 3 years of each other in school. 9 of us went to college on athletic scholarships. Was that a result of coaching or camps? No, we knew we were expected to win and play together. We played football, basketball and baseball 24/7/365. Whatever season it was, we played it. (I don't think soccer was invented yet in the late 60's/early 70's, lol) We didn't have money for camp and private coaches. Our dads taught us and we observed older people.

I think we're talking about the same thing. We do need kids to play at a young age and play together. But, I don't agree ittakes a lot of money and specialization.

Your last question makes me laugh. No, I have never attended a soccer game, let alone a Massillon soccer game, and probably never will. That doesn't mean I don't or wouldn't support the kids who play it. I have 4 neighbor kids who played soccer in high school at Wadsworth and I have supported the teams financially over the years. One of them is currently playing for Kent State, one graduated a year ago from Bowling Green and two of them are currently playing at Wright State. All four of them on soccer scholarships. But, no, because of work and commitments to football, I have never been to a soccer game.

[TigerCoach]

Really? Tennis? Cross Country? girls basketball? wrestling? volleyball? Gymnastics? ( I will say that I can't figure out why baseball hasn't done better.)


I guess I need to ask what being competitive means to you? Top 3? Middle of the pack?

Yes, I think Tiger athletes could compete in all of these in the Federal League easily. By competitive, I mean in the upper half of the league on a consistent basis.

[austinsm11]

Your last question makes me laugh. No, I have never attended a soccer game, let alone a Massillon soccer game, and probably never will. That doesn't mean I don't or wouldn't support the kids who play it. I have 4 neighbor kids who played soccer in high school at Wadsworth and I have supported the teams financially over the years. One of them is currently playing for Kent State, one graduated a year ago from Bowling Green and two of them are currently playing at Wright State. All four of them on soccer scholarships. But, no, because of work and commitments to football, I have never been to a soccer game.

So what does support mean? Have you been to games of any of the "other" sports. It is easy to say you support a team, but how do you do it? (BTW, I am not trying to bash you. I have been to very few games of the "other" sports) You supported specific Massillon teams financially?

If Massillon joins the FED, how do we make certain that these sports don't turn out like McKinley's have?

[TigerCoach]

Yes, I have been to many "other sports" games, both in Massillon and at many other schools. I've been officiating high school basketball for 20 years, so in the winter I'm limited to basketball, but I've also been to wrestling matches, volleyball games, baseball games, softball games and swim meets. Some in Massillon, some in Wadsworth. Remember, I have to work during the day, and many of these sports play right after school. I think you said your a teacher, so it's easier for you to attend.

What's wrong with McK's athletic programs?

[austinsm11]

I think you said your a teacher, so it's easier for you to attend.

Unfortunately I'm in a similiar boat as you only coaching in the spring and fall.
Used to run the clock for the basketball team during the winter.


What's wrong with McK's athletic programs?

From another poster:

FINAL ALL-SPORTS STATS

1. Jackson - 138.00 (Winner of Federal League All-Sports Trophy)
2. Hoover - 130.00 (2nd Place- FL All-Sports Award)
3. Boardman - 109.50 (3rd Place- FL All-Sports Award)
4. Perry - 103.50
5. GlenOak - 92.00
6. Lake - 81.50
7. McKinley - 53.50
8. Fitch - 53.00

League Champs by Sport
Football - Hoover
Boys CC - Hoover
Girls CC - Hoover
Girls Golf - Perry
Boys Golf - Lake
Boys Soccer - Jackson
Girls Soccer - Jackson
Girls Tennis - Jackson
Volleyball - Lake/Jackson (tie)
Boys Basketball - Perry
Girls Basketball - Hoover
Wrestling - Perry
Boys Swimming - Hoover
Girls Swimming - GlenOak
Boys Bowling - Boardman
Girls Bowling - Fitch
Baseball - Jackson
Boys Track - Boardman
Girls Track - Jackson
Boys Tennis - Jackson
Softball - Hoover/Jackson (tie)

Final Standings by Sport (21 sports)
1. Jackson - 1st (8), 2nd (4), 3rd (4), 4th (1), 5th (3), 7th (1)
2. Hoover - 1st (6), 2nd (4), 3rd (5), 4th (4), 6th (1), 7th (1)
3. Boardman - 1st (2), 2nd (6), 3rd (1), 4th (4), 5th (5), 6th (2), 7th (1)
4. Perry - 1st (3), 2nd (2), 3rd (4), 4th (3), 5th (2), 6th (7)
5. GlenOak - 1st (1), 2nd (4), 3rd (2), 4th (2), 5th (5), 6th (3), 7th (4)
6. Lake - 1st (2), 2nd (2), 3rd (2), 4th (2), 5th (3), 6th (4), 7th (3), 8th (3)
7. McKinley - 2nd (1), 3rd (1), 4th (2), 5th (3), 6th (3), 7th (3), 8th (8)
8. Fitch - 1st (1), 2nd (1), 3rd (2), 4th (1), 6th (2), 7th (4), 8th (10)


Not exactly competitive imo.

[Fats]

I know for a fact that a coach with professional playing experience applied for the soccer position when the program first started. You can't get much more qualified than that for a first year program. He didn't get the job.

I.

This is not a crack on the Massillon coaches for our non revenue sports. They are dedicated and care about the kids. BUT, how many of those coaches are from that sport? Do you they have playing experience and an extensive knowledge of the sport? Do we hire coaches from those sports or do we hire a coach from the football program so they can have a supplemental contract?

[DAWGH8R]

Until we have better 'feeder' programs, our other sports will strive to be mediocre.

[Kamd50]

This is not a crack on the Massillon coaches for our non revenue sports. They are dedicated and care about the kids. BUT, how many of those coaches are from that sport? Do you they have playing experience and an extensive knowledge of the sport? Do we hire coaches from those sports or do we hire a coach from the football program so they can have a supplemental contract?

Idk all of the specifics, but I do know that they have to interview MCS employees who are interested in any coaching position before they interview anyone from outside. And then, if they do not hire the school employee, their decision has to be proven justifiable if it is contested.

That is how Miss Couch got hired for the cheerleading advisor position. They originally hired a young Perry woman who had been a Cav's girl and had worked with the Massillon cheerleaders in the past. But Miss Couch contested the hiring and she ended up with the job.

[freddy g]

Until we have better 'feeder' programs, our other sports will strive to be mediocre.

I say it's all in the parents hands here. We could start our feeder programs tomorrow. Just by having parents take thier kids out back and toss the football, baseball, or softball back and forth. Shoot some hoops or kick the soccer ball around. Everybody could use an extra hour a day of not only excercise, but spending time with their children.

I really hate to say it, but many of us in Massillon make too many excuses. "We'll never win a playoff title as long as there are parochials." "Oh, we can't join the Federal League, because we won't be able to compete in the other sports." How about when the parents are out playing with their kids, they instill some self-confidence in them also.

[mike_da_man13]

Mike, Your not in touch with reality and your posts just support your lack of support for "minor sports" and females.

omg doesnt help the fact that i attended many games this year and last in the girls tournaments for basketball and softball. i played baseball in hs and attended games this year from frosh to varsity. can you say you did any of that? oh yeah on top of going to college and handling the work.

you want reality?


mentor 1175 girls btw mentor doesnt have a freshman class in their hs.
Washington (Massillon) 497 girls attend massillon. wake up and smell the coffee sunshine! for of you keeping track that is 87 less girls than boys in our own. or 15 percent more males than female population.

[austinsm11]

I say it's all in the parents hands here. We could start our feeder programs tomorrow. Just by having parents take thier kids out back and toss the football, baseball, or softball back and forth. Shoot some hoops or kick the soccer ball around. Everybody could use an extra hour a day of not only excercise, but spending time with their children.


How do you know this isn't already being done?
I don't know if it is or if it is not.

I do know that when I was in middle school we would get together after school and play football or basketball everyday until it got dark. Then we had to ride home, heat up dinner and do our homework.

[Red50Go]

I say it's all in the parents hands here. We could start our feeder programs tomorrow. Just by having parents take thier kids out back and toss the football, baseball, or softball back and forth. Shoot some hoops or kick the soccer ball around. Everybody could use an extra hour a day of not only excercise, but spending time with their children.

I really hate to say it, but many of us in Massillon make too many excuses. "We'll never win a playoff title as long as there are parochials." "Oh, we can't join the Federal League, because we won't be able to compete in the other sports." How about when the parents are out playing with their kids, they instill some self-confidence in them also.

That is a great thought...but that is certainly not a feeder system. Not in this day & age. The Fed league, in many of those sports, have premier coaches and infrastructure in place, and as much emphasis as we do in football. I will agree there is NO EXCUSE we are not AS good as Perry, Jackson, GO, Lake etc in volleyball, softball, girls bball, swimming, soccer, track etc. Tennis and golf are about the only 2 I really consider "country club" that might favor more affluent communities/families. We aren't going to be great at EVERYTHING every year of course...even 1st place Jackson was bottom half in 4 out of the 20 sports.

[gotigers1]

http://coreygilmore.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

[TigerCoach]

omg doesnt help the fact that i attended many games this year and last in the girls tournaments for basketball and softball. i played baseball in hs and attended games this year from frosh to varsity. can you say you did any of that? oh yeah on top of going to college and handling the work.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

[austinsm11]

That is a great thought...but that is certainly not a feeder system. Not in this day & age. The Fed league, in many of those sports, have premier coaches and infrastructure in place, and as much emphasis as we do in football. I will agree there is NO EXCUSE we are not AS good as Perry, Jackson, GO, Lake etc in volleyball, softball, girls bball, swimming, soccer, track etc. Tennis and golf are about the only 2 I really consider "country club" that might favor more affluent communities/families. We aren't going to be great at EVERYTHING every year of course...even 1st place Jackson was bottom half in 4 out of the 20 sports.

That is the problem, we have no or poor feeder systems. If/When we did get them, it will be a very long time to catch up to Jackson soccer, Hoover softball/basketball, Perry wrestling, etc.

I know that some of those listed are not really country club sports, but it does take money to play on the better club/travel teams. You are paying for coaching, uniforms, league fees, tournament fees, etc. In return you are usually playing more often, have better coaching, and better competition. As I stated earlier, I know Massillon does have some families with money...but when you have several kids who can afford the travel teams or private coaching at Massillon compared to entire teams at other high schools, it is a big advantage.

[giant lugey]

To have a good feeder system requires parent involvement at a young age. Not just paying $40.00 and dropping your child off at practice. I’m talking about volunteering as a coach, playing catch with your kid in the back yard, getting private lessons and going to camps, going to batting cages, etc.

I coached youth softball for 12 years. I know some kids never picked up their gloves from one practice to the next. Other kids practiced every day with one parent or the other.
The ones whose parents were involved were the better players.

Having parents involved at a young age is where the feeder system begins, and I think that is where our feeder system is lacking.

[TigerCoach]

To have a good feeder system requires parent involvement at a young age. Not just paying $40.00 and dropping your child off at practice. I’m talking about volunteering as a coach, playing catch with your kid in the back yard, getting private lessons and going to camps, going to batting cages, etc.

I coached youth softball for 12 years. I know some kids never picked up their gloves from one practice to the next. Other kids practiced every day with one parent or the other.
The ones whose parents were involved were the better players.

Having parents involved at a young age is where the feeder system begins, and I think that is where our feeder system is lacking.

I agree with you 100% and agree with austinsim11 0%.

[Mass6]

Unfortunately I'm in a similiar boat as you only coaching in the spring and fall.
Used to run the clock for the basketball team during the winter.



From another poster:

FINAL ALL-SPORTS STATS

1. Jackson - 138.00 (Winner of Federal League All-Sports Trophy)
2. Hoover - 130.00 (2nd Place- FL All-Sports Award)
3. Boardman - 109.50 (3rd Place- FL All-Sports Award)
4. Perry - 103.50
5. GlenOak - 92.00
6. Lake - 81.50
7. McKinley - 53.50
8. Fitch - 53.00

League Champs by Sport
Football - Hoover
Boys CC - Hoover
Girls CC - Hoover
Girls Golf - Perry
Boys Golf - Lake
Boys Soccer - Jackson
Girls Soccer - Jackson
Girls Tennis - Jackson
Volleyball - Lake/Jackson (tie)
Boys Basketball - Perry
Girls Basketball - Hoover
Wrestling - Perry
Boys Swimming - Hoover
Girls Swimming - GlenOak
Boys Bowling - Boardman
Girls Bowling - Fitch
Baseball - Jackson
Boys Track - Boardman
Girls Track - Jackson
Boys Tennis - Jackson
Softball - Hoover/Jackson (tie)

Final Standings by Sport (21 sports)
1. Jackson - 1st (8), 2nd (4), 3rd (4), 4th (1), 5th (3), 7th (1)
2. Hoover - 1st (6), 2nd (4), 3rd (5), 4th (4), 6th (1), 7th (1)
3. Boardman - 1st (2), 2nd (6), 3rd (1), 4th (4), 5th (5), 6th (2), 7th (1)
4. Perry - 1st (3), 2nd (2), 3rd (4), 4th (3), 5th (2), 6th (7)
5. GlenOak - 1st (1), 2nd (4), 3rd (2), 4th (2), 5th (5), 6th (3), 7th (4)
6. Lake - 1st (2), 2nd (2), 3rd (2), 4th (2), 5th (3), 6th (4), 7th (3), 8th (3)
7. McKinley - 2nd (1), 3rd (1), 4th (2), 5th (3), 6th (3), 7th (3), 8th (8)
8. Fitch - 1st (1), 2nd (1), 3rd (2), 4th (1), 6th (2), 7th (4), 8th (10)


Not exactly competitive imo.

TC, if you disagree with the above poster 100%, please explain how these numbers are false. Facts are facts.

[TigerCoach]

These facts aren't from the poster I disagree with. He says there from another poster.

Besides, I'm not saying these facts are false, but it's only 1-year of stats. Give me these numbers over a 5-yr period.

[austinsm11]

Besides, I'm not saying these facts are false, but it's only 1-year of stats. Give me these numbers over a 5-yr period.

So what stats do you have then to back your argument?

Also, things were different back in your day. There weren't the clubs/travel teams/specialized coaching as there is today. Football is also a little different since you don't play in the off season and there aren't club teams.

[TigerCoach]

I don't have ANY stats. That's why I'm asking for these same numbers over a longer period of time. Maybe this 1 year McK had a bad class of kids? I don't know? Statistics require a larger pool to be significant.

That's like a political poll. It can be manipulated to say what you want it to say. "67% of voters say they will vote for Obama." Sure, that could be true if you only ask a certian demographic of people.

[austinsm11]

NORTH CANTON Hoover High School earned the Federal League All-Sports Award for the 2006-07 school year.

The Vikings finished with 114 points to narrowly edge Jackson (112). Hoover has won the Federal League All-Sports Award five years in a row.

The final standings were: 1, Hoover 114; 2, Jackson 112; 3, GlenOak 95; 4, Perry 93.5; 5, Boardman 89; 6, Lake 81; 7, McKinley 58; 8, Fitch 44.5.


There are two years. I couldn't find overall standings past that, but other than Perry and GO winning it the first 3 years, the trophy stays with Hoover or Jackson EVERY year since then. One person said that usually 3rd and 4th are between Perry and GO and Lake is usually 5th.

BTW, if you dont have any stats then what do you base your opinions on?

[reofan82]

All of you have made some valid points. Parental involvement is the key to student success in the classroom or in sports. Most of the federal league schools do not suffer from a lack of parental involvement in these areas. Those that do (Canton) and somewhat Austintown, do not fair as well from top to bottom in sports or in academics for that matter. Parental involvement takes many forms when it comes to sports. Sometimes it is volunteer coaching, sometimes paying for lessons, spending time with travel teams,etc. The point is parental involvement is key. Many sports are to be participated in consistantly if a student is to be successful. It is more than seasonal today. This is what most of the federal schools understand and what is not common practice for many Massillon students in most sports.

[tigerbeat]

You are all living in a fantasy world of the 1940's...when was the last time we won a fricking state title? Play the Fed schools and stop acting like a bunch of babies. Oh yes...keep playing DC teams and teams from Canada..that gets us ready for Ignatius..what a joke!

[PurpleArmy]

Well I don't know all the reasons they won't play us on a regular basis, but my guess is one reason is we won't give them a home and home agreement.

We have had alot of former Massillon coaches in the Fed who I think would have played us homa and home.
Rose while at GO
Mauro while at Jackson
Hertler at Hoover
and now that McDaniels is at Jackson, I can't see him shying away from us.

The higher ups though probably want the home and home arangement,and quite frankly, I can't blame them.

That's the main reason that I've heard from most people. The FL schools who have been in talks with Massillon in the past regarding regular season games wanted at least one home game and Massillon didn't want to give it to them, so they opted not to play Massillon. At least, that's what happened a efw years back when Mauro was at Jackson. And I'm sure all the other FL schools would say the same thing.

It's not at all that the Fl schools are "afraid" to play Massillon. Many of the FL schools already HAVE played Massillon.

I just don't get the whole discussion about whether or not Massillon should join the league. They have already applied to the league two times and were denied admission both times, so it's not like there's a standing invitation to consider right now for them.

I think it's best for them to stay independent and get to play mostly home games. It works well for their fan base and ticket revenue and those two things seem to be very important at Massillon, so why rock the boat by trying to join a league? I say that as long as the fans are happy- since they're the ones buying all the tickets- then leave it like it is.

[TigerCoach]

You are all living in a fantasy world of the 1940's...when was the last time we won a fricking state title? Play the Fed schools and stop acting like a bunch of babies. Oh yes...keep playing DC teams and teams from Canada..that gets us ready for Ignatius..what a joke!

Look who's coming out of the woodwork! Haven't heard from you in a while.

[ChronicTiger]

You are all living in a fantasy world of the 1940's...when was the last time we won a fricking state title? Play the Fed schools and stop acting like a bunch of babies. Oh yes...keep playing DC teams and teams from Canada..that gets us ready for Ignatius..what a joke!

:scratchchin:

This also gets the :ghostface:

[PurpleArmy]

Some who are just plain chicken like the brass at Stubenville and Jackson.

Umm...Jackson certainly isn't "chicken" regarding potentially playing Massillon. We've played them in the playoffs in the past and were in talks to play them a few years back when both schools had week 1 open. Coach Mauro WANTED to play Massillon, but Massillon did not want to give Jackson a home game (from what I had heard, it was to have been a three year series, and Jackson requested that one of those games be played at Fife), and the deal fell through after that.

Maybe you should get your stories straight before posting things like you did. Coach Mauro is a former assistant coach from Massillon , and he had no problem scheduling the Tigers. I do think that Jackson's AD wasn't so keen on it, but it could have worked out had Jackson been offered one home game.

Honestly, the whole "everyone's afraid to play Massillon" thing gets really old. No one is "afraid" to play you guys- sometimes the scheduling and other details just don't work out for certain teams to play them.

[PurpleArmy]

I think you are missing the point.

You don't need all that. But do you think our teams will be as competitive with FED teams that do have those things?

How can our tennis team be competitive with Jackson/Hoover when most, if not all, of those kids have private lessons with private/professional coaches and play year round. They also get the benefit of better competition.

How can our soccer team be competive with Jackson when Jackson has one of the better youth programs in the state to go along with parents willing to pay the money to have their kids on Cleveland club teams that play the best teams in the state?

How can our softball teams be competitive with Hoover/Jackson/Lake/Perry when all of those girls play on travel teams and those schools have good youth programs?


DE#3 is right on with his post.

How do you know that kids from the schools you mentioned have private coaching/lessons, etc? My oldest daughter is friends with 4 of the girls on Jackson's Varsity Girls Tennis team and only one of them takes private additional lessons over the summer. My daughter has played basketball at Jackson for the past 3 years and has never attended an off season camp. She does, however, play on a league at First Friends Church which is a pretty decent league and for 2 years, she was the only girl on her team, which I think helped her in the long run during regular season at school. Also, my husband plays bball with her at the YMCA several times per week and works with her on basic skills as well as shooting and defensive skills. I also play one on one with her at the court in our neighborhood at least once or twice per week. We can't afford private coaching or camps, but we do what we can to help her constantly improve her skills and level of play.

Jackson does have excellent coaches at the school and they work those kids very hard and they do all attend camps together as a team, but it isn't necessarily true that everyone on those teams takes private lessons or has additional help. I think it's more that at schools like Hoover, Jackson and Perry, just as much emphasis and money is put into programs other than football.

Sure, the Federal League stadiums don't hold 20,000 fans and we don't all have gigantic scoreboards like Massillon does, because the funding is distributed equally to ALL the sports teams, which makes them all able to be competitive since we are able to hire good coaches, send the teams to camps, and things like that.

Also, I will say that there is a lot of interest in the minor sports at most of the FL schools. My daughter played basketball on Jackson's freshman team this past school year, and even at those games, the auxiliary gym was always nearly full with parents, relatives, other students, friends of players, etc. My step-daughter played basketball as a freshman at Massillon, and their games had very small amounts of people showing up at games to support the girls. We went to all her games and usually it was the same group of parents at every game- mostly the parents of the girls who started. I actually felt bad about the lack of support for them. Also, their coach back then was horrible- probably one of the worst high school level coaches I've ever seen.

It just seems to me that there isn't much interest for sports other than football at Massillon. I could be wrong, though.

[giant lugey]

It just seems to me that there isn't much interest for sports other than football at Massillon. I could be wrong, though.

But it is the Feds concern over football that is keeping Massillon out of the Fed.
So it is not just Massillon that is overly concerned with football.

[PurpleArmy]

But it is the Feds concern over football that is keeping Massillon out of the Fed.
So it is not just Massillon that is overly concerned with football.

I agree. I'm sure there are quite a few FL Board members who don't want Massillon in the league due to issues in the past. But since most Massillon fans don't want in the league anyways, I would think that this is a good thing for them.

[reofan82]

Ironically, the football team isn't the main reason for joining a league. Though we occassionally struggle to fill a 10 game schedule, we always do. True sometimes we need to look to Canada for that final slot, but many schools in a league end up playing some poor teams as well to complete their non-conference schedule. Being in a league helps to complete schedules in other sports, especially at the middle school level. Also, being in a league has many benefits such as winning the league title, players being named all conference,etc.

It is only a matter of time before Fitch and Boardman decide to leave the conference and rejoin some form of the Steel Valley Conference. When that happens, the Fed will have to decide whether they will invite Massillon or not and will have a tough time coming up with reasons why not.

[Fats]

Question? Do members of the Federal League have to share the money from playoff games revenue? If the football team or basketball or goes into the playoffs is some of that revenue shared with the other league teams?

On the scheduling problem for the middle schools. When I played we played each other. Of course we had Jones Jr. High, Longfellow Jr. High and Lorin Andrews Jr. High and we had elementary schools like Bowers, Smith, Gorrell.
Do we have enough kids to make different teams, Orange and Black and have them play each other.

[The Butler]

Question? Do members of the Federal League have to share the money from playoff games revenue? If the football team or basketball or goes into the playoffs is some of that revenue shared with the other league teams?

I could be wrong but I do not believe so. This isn't the Big 10 where they share bowl revenue.

I think the money WHBC payed for their exclusive agreement went to the collective league to cover costs associated with end of season awards and was not directly shared with the member schools.