Universal Health Care

[Paul Brown]

Let's just borrow against our national debt to fund it. We won't waste any money that way. Who cares about the debt, it's inconsequential to us, we'll never feel the effects from it. Taxes will never be raised to offset it. It's a perfect system. Repubs have it right!!! Borrow Borrow Borrow!!!

[TigerCoach]

Let me ask you this....Where do you think our economy would be if the government weren't spending as much as they are for the war? Part of government's job is to keep the economy alive during economic downturns. Funding the war is part of that.

During Bill Clinton's tenure, the economy was going so strong (and not because of him) that they cut military spending and the size of the military and no one battered an eye (well, except for the military families who were on food stamps).

[Paul Brown]

Yeah, the declining dollar due to the debt growing exponentially sure is helping our economy. I'm sure glad we entered Iraq. We're much better off now that we decided to enter this quagmire. It's sure helping the economy :down:

[TigerCoach]

The value of the dollar is more related to the low interest rates trying to keep the economy going and the credit crunch in the banks. Sure, debt adds to the decline, but it's a secondary problem here.

I ask you again, where do you think the economy would be if we weren't spending on our military? There would be a heck of a lot more unemployed than there is now.

[Paul Brown]

The problem is you're just creating more problems trying to solve a problem you just created for yourself.
But since you like the idea of this problem, then let's leave Iraq today and borrow money for Health Care. Let's spend the money and help our economy. This way at least I'll get some benefit from the accruing debt.

[Paul Brown]

Better yet... let's stay in Iraq, keep on borrowing against the debt to fund it, and borrow for health care in addition to Iraq. That way we'll really be spending some money and helping our economy, right?

[SuperBran]

During Bill Clinton's tenure, the economy was going so strong (and not because of him)

you actually think that he had absolutely nothing to do with it? i guess it was all just coincidence. too bad bush wasn't so lucky.

(well, except for the military families who were on food stamps).

don't get me started on how much "love" bush has for our troops, especially when it comes to veteran healtcare. how about bush opposing a 0.5 percent increase in military pay over his proposed 3.4 increase? he's certainly willing to watch them die over there, calling them heros, but won't pay those heros for the job they're doing.

[Indiana95]

The value of the dollar is more related to the low interest rates trying to keep the economy going and the credit crunch in the banks. Sure, debt adds to the decline, but it's a secondary problem here.

I ask you again, where do you think the economy would be if we weren't spending on our military? There would be a heck of a lot more unemployed than there is now.

So what's next....war bonds? C'mon!

[Indiana95]

don't get me started on how much "love" bush has for our troops, especially when it comes to veteran healtcare. how about bush opposing a 0.5 percent increase in military pay over his proposed 3.4 increase? he's certainly willing to watch them die over there, calling them heros, but won't pay those heros for the job they're doing.

Check back soon to my "Reasons not to vote for McCain" thread for additional info regarding Bush AND McCain's lack of support for our troops. I'll try to post the info tonight...

[savage4president]

The value of the dollar is more related to the low interest rates trying to keep the economy going and the credit crunch in the banks. Sure, debt adds to the decline, but it's a secondary problem here.

I ask you again, where do you think the economy would be if we weren't spending on our military? There would be a heck of a lot more unemployed than there is now.

I LOVE a man that understand economics.

[savage4president]

you actually think that he had absolutely nothing to do with it? i guess it was all just coincidence. too bad bush wasn't so lucky.



don't get me started on how much "love" bush has for our troops, especially when it comes to veteran healtcare. how about bush opposing a 0.5 percent increase in military pay over his proposed 3.4 increase? he's certainly willing to watch them die over there, calling them heros, but won't pay those heros for the job they're doing.

What is a Hero exactly worth???

[Paul Brown]

I LOVE a man that understand economics.

Oh please LOL you're as naive as he is if you think our "borrowing" isn't playing a huge role if the decline of the dollar. Secondary role my ass. I've sat through 3 economics classes throughout my education, I didn't read it in "economic for dummies" like you claimed.

[savage4president]

Oh please LOL you're as naive as he is if you think our "borrowing" isn't playing a huge role if the decline of the dollar. Secondary role my ass. I've sat through 3 economics classes throughout my education, I didn't read it in "economic for dummies" like you claimed.

3...you actually sat through 3 of them? All three of those classes, my god, you must be a professor of economcs by now. Where exactly are you teaching these classes? It's been about 10 years, but I'm honestly looking into going back to college to get a degree in economics, and with your vast experience of 9 credit hours, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the American Economy.

In all seriousness...you want a GREAT Econ book to read that will really shake your foundation? If so please pick up "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell. I'll even provide a link. This book will blow your hair back (that is if you actually care about economics).

http://http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-3rd-Ed-Economy/dp/0465002609/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212812881&sr=1-2

[SuperBran]

What is a Hero exactly worth???

a hero is worth an extra 0.5 percent.

funny how bush has no problems sending these guys over there and keeping them over there risking their lives, telling everyone that they should support the troops.........yet when it comes to compensating these guys he doesn't practice what he preaches.

[Paul Brown]

3...you actually sat through 3 of them? All three of those classes, my god, you must be a professor of economcs by now. Where exactly are you teaching these classes? It's been about 10 years, but I'm honestly looking into going back to college to get a degree in economics, and with your vast experience of 9 credit hours, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the American Economy.

In all seriousness...you want a GREAT Econ book to read that will really shake your foundation? If so please pick up "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell. I'll even provide a link. This book will blow your hair back (that is if you actually care about economics).

http://http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-3rd-Ed-Economy/dp/0465002609/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212812881&sr=1-2

I'm in no way an econ guru, and the only reason I had 2 of the economics classes was b/c I took macro and micro when I was still a business major before I switched to Electrical Engineering. However, with my limited exposure to economics through 3 courses, I know damn well our accruing debt plays a large role in the decline of our dollar.

[savage4president]

I'm in no way an econ guru, and the only reason I had 2 of the economics classes was b/c I took macro and micro when I was still a business major before I switched to Electrical Engineering. However, with my limited exposure to economics through 3 courses, I know damn well our accruing debt plays a large role in the decline of our dollar.

You really need to buy that book. I honestly think that you will like it, and it will help you to truly understanding a nations economy and how it works. I swear to god, it is not a boring read either. It is not very long, and makes economcis a very simple subject for any person to understand. If you have High School age children...make them read it! It will do wonders for them later in life. I'm not joking at all!

[savage4president]

a hero is worth an extra 0.5 percent.



I certainly don't disagree with that. What about during peacetime? You do realize the any person in the military that is in a dangerous region of earth (as defined by the U.S. Government) receives hazard pay...so the extra .5% would only apply to the base salary of all Men and Women in the military, and would indeed be permanent...it has nothing to do with being in Iraq or not.

However, I think they deserve a 50% raise.

[SuperBran]

I certainly don't disagree with that. What about during peacetime?

i don't think you pick and choose..........you shouldn't wait until there's a war to give them what they deserve.

to only offer a 3% increase, and oppose a 0.5% higher raise in a time of war is a slap in the face to these men and women who are risking their lives for this country. bush has no clue as to when they'll be home, yet STILL gripes about 0.5%. he tells people to support the troops, but when it comes time for him to step up he steps down.

[savage4president]

i don't think you pick and choose..........you shouldn't wait until there's a war to give them what they deserve.

to only offer a 3% increase, and oppose a 0.5% higher raise in a time of war is a slap in the face to these men and women who are risking their lives for this country. bush has no clue as to when they'll be home, yet STILL gripes about 0.5%. he tells people to support the troops, but when it comes time for him to step up he steps down.

Once again, I certainly do not disagree. But do not forget about their Hazard Pay! In a Time of War has nothing to do with it. When in a war zone, the pay is greatly increased. The time of the opposition does not bother me! The opposition bothers me!

[TigerCoach]

Oh please LOL you're as naive as he is if you think our "borrowing" isn't playing a huge role if the decline of the dollar. Secondary role my ass. I've sat through 3 economics classes throughout my education, I didn't read it in "economic for dummies" like you claimed.

Maybe when you get your MBA in Finance and CFP to go along with 10 years in the financial planning industry you'll understand. Simply watching the lines at the little kids lemonade stand in your neighborhood doesn't teach you economics.

[Paul Brown]

Maybe when you get your MBA in Finance and CFP to go along with 10 years in the financial planning industry you'll understand. Simply watching the lines at the little kids lemonade stand in your neighborhood doesn't teach you economics.

No offense, but my ex-fiancee has her MBA in finance and I did most of her coursework for her. It was painfully easy and I only had 200 level business courses under my belt.
Your 10 years in the industry speaks more to knowledge than the MBA.

[warren1st]

No offense, but my ex-fiancee has her MBA in finance and I did most of her coursework for her. It was painfully easy and I only had 200 level business courses under my belt.
Your 10 years in the industry speaks more to knowledge than the MBA.

That's scary to read. Sounds like anybody and everybody can graduate from college currently. It wasn't like that years ago. An MBA was truly hard work and something to be proud of!

[Indiana95]

That's scary to read. Sounds like anybody and everybody can graduate from college currently. It wasn't like that years ago. An MBA was truly hard work and something to be proud of!

Or maybe us youngster are just smarter and quicker than you old foggies....

[GLM]

:wall:

[CarlE]

Or maybe us youngster are just smarter and quicker than you old foggies....

Um, or maybe not!! LOL:drinkem:

[Paul Brown]

That's scary to read. Sounds like anybody and everybody can graduate from college currently. It wasn't like that years ago. An MBA was truly hard work and something to be proud of!

MBA's are a dime a dozen. My brother-in-law has his MBA and has his BSEE like me. He said the MBA was a lot easier than our 300 level courses. From what I saw in my ex's course work, I'd have to agree. I'm not wasting my time on an MBA but rather getting my MSEE then Ph.D, but only so I can teach when I retire.

[DAWGH8R]

No offense, but my ex-fiancee has her MBA in finance and I did most of her coursework for her. .

It's easy to see why you have an EX-FIANCE !!!

[massillon catholic]

It's easy to see why you have an EX-FIANCE !!!


No surprise here!

[ChronicTiger]

MBA's are a dime a dozen. My brother-in-law has his MBA and has his BSEE like me. He said the MBA was a lot easier than our 300 level courses. From what I saw in my ex's course work, I'd have to agree. I'm not wasting my time on an MBA but rather getting my MSEE then Ph.D, but only so I can teach when I retire.

PB you know the story.......the Business College is filled with Engineering dropouts.........

:MrT:

[Paul Brown]

It's easy to see why you have an EX-FIANCE !!!


Is it? That's good.

[Paul Brown]

PB you know the story.......the Business College is filled with Engineering dropouts.........

:MrT:


Yep... If you can't hang with the big boys, go to business school.

[TigerCoach]

There's no one bashing engineers here. I went to school to be an aeronautical engineer myself, but graduated in Industrial Management. The point is don't try to be a cocktail napkin economist if you don't know what your talking about.

[Paul Brown]

No ones trying to be an economist, and nothing I've said is untrue; you've already conceded that. But given your background, I'd love to hear how borrowing monies from China to support Iraq is truly benefiting our economy (our economies growth disagrees with you). I can think of a half a million other proposals for borrowing money and putting it to other uses would benefit our economy a hell of a lot better. .. Of course, I’m not an economist so I could be completely off base here.

[TigerCoach]

I'm not an economist either. I think those people usually have spent too much time in the library and not enough time in the real world of business.

Technically, we are not "borrowing" from China. They are buying U.S. Treasury Bonds from us. We are raising capital to help fund our government, same as what many U.S. banks are doing right now to have liquid funds for loan activity. What the government uses that money for is what we should be questioning seriously, and it's not just for the war. Take your blinders off, there is so much damn wasted spending going on by our government it makes me want to move to the Bahama's with Carl.

The fact that they, and other countries, are buying U.S. Treasuries should be looked at as a positive. At least in my mind, this foreign buying of U.S. debt is a vote in favor of the longer-term outlook on the economy of the U.S. and our dollar. Think about it, the U.S. dollar has fallen dramatically versus other currencies in the past 2 years. At some point, the dollar will rally back to be much stronger than it is today. It has already shown signs of stabilization and small, brief rallies.

When foreigners use their currency to buy U.S. backed securities, they are getting a value. When the intrinsic value of the U.S. dollar rises, they get a leveraged return on their investment. Same reasoning goes for people who have invested in foreign stocks and mutual funds the past couple years. Unfortunately, U.S. investors cannot play this game because we buy in U.S. dollars. We can, though, participate by shorting other currencies.

I may be getting a little technical for an engineer, so I'll stop at that, but my point is we're not "borrowing" from China, and it's not all going towards the war in Iraq.

[Paul Brown]

No I understand that.. but China buying a US treasury bond is no real difference then them giving us money and us writing them an IOU.. except what they get in return will be returned with interest... in simple terms at least right? That’s borrowing no matter how you want to dress it up. I never said all the money was going to Iraq, an exponentially large portion is though. It’s also more than we should be pissing away.