Massillon Heat Just Got Hotter

[5starred]

Rumors of infighting , removal of coaches, secret meeting not including all of there board members,parents taking there kids and leaving the team are running wild.
The people involved with Massillon Heat are some of the same involved with the DREAM project with Jeff David at the the helm of both.
Is this DREAM project turning into Massillons NIGHTMARE ?
This whole mess is starting to get out of hand. We have BOE members at each others throats.The Inde calling for all the boards resignations. Ethics commission here investigating.
I could go on and on which solves nothing, but I would hope in light of what is going on with Mr. Davids baseball team and the Tiger locker room and the DREAM project maybe its time to step back and re-visit our positions on some of the mess circling this whole package.
One last question, Is the honeymoon over?

[PurpleArmy]

What's Massillon Heat?

[Banks]

It is true, team manager Jarred Vance was removed by the team owner.

[Banks]

What's Massillon Heat?



The Heat is a traveling baseball team ( I think 2 of them )
They were once part of the Jackson Jayhawks.

[PurpleArmy]

The Heat is a traveling baseball team ( I think 2 of them )
They were once part of the Jackson Jayhawks.

Oh, OK. That's great that Massillon has a traveling team! Those are a lot of fun. My cousin used to pitch for the Jayhawks and loved it.

[Banks]

Oh, OK. That's great that Massillon has a traveling team! Those are a lot of fun. My cousin used to pitch for the Jayhawks and loved it.

I think the problem is only 3 or 4 of the players are from Massillon, most are from Jackson township and others come from as far as Dover to play. I think they are all under 12 years old.

[PurpleArmy]

I think the problem is only 3 or 4 of the players are from Massillon, most are from Jackson township and others come from as far as Dover to play. I think they are all under 12 years old.

So why did the Jayhawks split? My cousin is now graduated and I don't know much about what goes on with them anymore.

[Banks]

So why did the Jayhawks split? My cousin is now graduated and I don't know much about what goes on with them anymore.

Followed the GREEN.

[CarlE]

I think the problem is only 3 or 4 of the players are from Massillon, most are from Jackson township and others come from as far as Dover to play. I think they are all under 12 years old.

Why is that a problem? This is a TRAVELING team. This is a team that is not bound by geographical boundaries as to who is asked to play. This is an alternative to everything wrong with Little League and the insane rules they now have in place, which will ultimately lead to its demise. The fact that only three or four kids are from Massillon speaks more to the talent level to choose from rather than some evil conspiracy against Massillon kids. They have a player from Dover? Congrats for being able to convince him to drive to Massillon with gas prices the way they are.

I have a Little League team. I have a travel team. I have three, yes THREE players from my Little League team on my travel team. Guys, you aren't really seeing the big picture that's out there in youth baseball today. Do some research. This happens EVERYWHERE.

[Banks]

I have a Little League team. I have a travel team. I have three, yes THREE players from my Little League team on my travel team. Guys, you aren't really seeing the big picture that's out there in youth baseball today. Do some research. This happens EVERYWHERE.

Good for you .

[CarlE]

Good for you .

The blinders remain. I'm just trying to make a point that this happens everywhere and it's not some freaking conspiracy against Massillon kids. You, who knows NOTHING about the subject would prefer to throw smart-aleck remarks out.

Good for YOU.

[PurpleArmy]

I didn't mean to start an argument about this. I just wondered why the split form the Jawhawks. I certainly didn't mean for everyone to start arguing about it.

Geez.......:oops2:

[Tiger77]

The fact there are only a couple Massillon kids is not the problem. Travel teams are common now. The problem lies with the fact that the team has a designated field of play in a public park that Massillon taxpayers pay for but cannot use. What does this have to do with the Dream project though, other than the fact the same person is involved? Why did Jarred Vance get canned?

[5starred]

IT seems that controversy is starting to swirl around the main donor for all projects mentioned here. They are as follows
DREAM project ( which was delayed in the past )
Tiger locker room ( which Mr. David has put a stop to the job )
Massillon Heat ( which the above bankrolled )
Thing is that it sounds like if you don't play by his rules he takes his marbles and goes home.

[savage4president]

Sounds to me like there is a real simple solution to these problems...STOP TAKING THE GUYS FREAKING MONEY!!!

[Tiger 1]

Anyone can use the fields. There is a sign that hangs from the fence with a number to call and schedule a time to use it. Massillon Heat and Hotstove have first dibs if already scheduled to use the fields that day though. There is a reason why Mr. Vance got relieved of his duty. It won't be public knowledge. I'm sure the grapevine will grow fast enough on this one though.

[5starred]

That is the smartest thing to do. BUT ( there always is a but ) it's far to late for that. He has everyone right where he wants them ( by the nose hair ) if he walks away there is no money to finish the job.
I think the problem was right from jump street, when he pitched the project, each side should have had boundries. That never happened and he now is running rough shot over everything.

[Red50Go]

Sounds to me like there is a real simple solution to these problems...STOP TAKING THE GUYS FREAKING MONEY!!!

Or choice B...you (not you s4p) could shut up and let the kids play, or dont play. But that wont happen. I mean honestly, feel free to find some other sucker to pay for all these programs, then spend his money any way you want.

[Tiger77]

I don't consider Massillon's benefactor a sucker. He's a true philanthropist and I appreciate all he's done for our community. I think controversy swirls around him because of the money- and the fact that he does seem to carry some clout about major decisions. The fact that he can pull the plug on the locker room project because he's not happy with the BOE proves that. It would seem that only the school system could stop the project after the donation has been made and the money allocated. One thing is for sure, we would have alot less if it wasn't for Mr. David's generosity.

[PurpleArmy]

Mr. David giveth....Mr. David can taketh away apparently. :sour:

[5starred]

Mr David is very generous, also very controlling.
I was always of the believe that when you give its with a pure heart not with strings.
The BOE should be the only ones who can pull the plug on any project but in this case the foundation is paying the bills.

[CATS44]

Massillon doesnt deserve the benefits of the David family.

It is the same way in business. Any major investor expects his money to be used wisely and within his stipulations.

Its a quite simple situation.

If Massillon doesnt want the benefits derived from the David Foundation and the David family, along with the totally understandable oversight and instruction, Massillon should simply refuse all benefits.

Then the Foundation and family can invest its resources in other localities, like Jackson.

[DAWGH8R]

Remember the GOLDEN RULE:

He who has the GOLD,..................RULES !!!

http://www.grinningplanet.com/2004/09-07/gold-man-copyright2.gif

[Kamd50]

So, because of some #$@#%* adults, the youth of Massillon, who have no control over what those adults say or do, should be the ones who end up on the short end of the stick and do not "deserve" the much needed help in lifting the educational opportunities that the Dream Project will provide them with? I am not a believer in the "son should suffer the sins of the father" kind of mentality at all. That makes no sense and very disappointing to hear coming from you, Cats:sad:

If anything, all the more reason to want to fund and make improvements so that these kids will learn and maybe come back and make this a better community than those that are doing a disservice to it now.

[PurpleArmy]

Then the Foundation and family can invest its resources in other localities, like Jackson.

I'm OK with that. :jestera: :doh2:

[PurpleArmy]

So, because of some #$@#%* adults, the youth of Massillon, who have no control over what those adults say or do, should be the ones who end up on the short end of the stick and do not "deserve" the much needed help in lifting the educational opportunities that the Dream Project will provide them with? I am not a believer in the "son should suffer the sins of the father" kind of mentality at all. That makes no sense and very disappointing to hear coming from you, Cats:sad:

If anything, all the more reason to want to fund and make improvements so that these kids will learn and maybe come back and make this a better community than those that are doing a disservice to it now.

Excellent point, and I agree with you. It has nothing to do with the kids and they shouldn't get the short end of the stick because of in-fighting between the adult parties.

It would be nice if a mediator could work with both sides to find a common solution that works out well for all involved.

[CarlE]

Unfortunately, when situations like this arise it is ALWAYS the innocent ones that end up "suffering", although that's a rather harsh word. "Short end of the stick" is probably more appropriate. The bottom line is that the parents of the ones that will be short-changed here are the ones that have elected the people that are causing the problems. Soooooooo, if you REALLY want to place blame, I guess you can start with the voters of Massillon.

And I would LOVE to hear suggestions for a mediator into this mess. I think that is a thread unto itself. It will certainly be interesting to say the least.

[PurpleArmy]

Unfortunately, when situations like this arise it is ALWAYS the innocent ones that end up "suffering", although that's a rather harsh word. "Short end of the stick" is probably more appropriate. The bottom line is that the parents of the ones that will be short-changed here are the ones that have elected the people that are causing the problems. Soooooooo, if you REALLY want to place blame, I guess you can start with the voters of Massillon.

And I would LOVE to hear suggestions for a mediator into this mess. I think that is a thread unto itself. It will certainly be interesting to say the least.

Good points, Carl. It's too bad the adults can't work together to find a good solution for the children of Massillon who would benefit greatly from a project like this one. People need to act like grown ups about this and remember what's at stake and what (and WHOM) is really important here. It's supposed to be about the KIDS.

[5starred]

I agree with everything stated concerning this thread. I am looking for one person to please tell me what our kids are learning from a adult who shuts down a project because he does not like someone or something. Do you think when there is no locker room for the first game the kids will respect ANYONE involved in this mess.

[CarlE]

I agree with everything stated concerning this thread. I am looking for one person to please tell me what our kids are learning from a adult who shuts down a project because he does not like someone or something. Do you think when there is no locker room for the first game the kids will respect ANYONE involved in this mess.


The kids are going to learn that the corruption, egos, and something resembling PURE nepotism that has been ingrained within the Board of Education for years will soon make way for a "day of reckoning". THAT'S what they will learn. Don't try to put the onus and blame on one person here. THAT just won't fly.

[Banks]

I agree with everything stated concerning this thread. I am looking for one person to please tell me what our kids are learning from a adult who shuts down a project because he does not like someone or something. Do you think when there is no locker room for the first game the kids will respect ANYONE involved in this mess.


Seems like we sort of got off track from the original topic which was the removal of Jarred Vance as manager of the HEAT.

The new manager is Tigers head coach .
Ted took over last week.

Jerry Vance , Jarred father and long time Massillon Tiger pitching coach ( 15 seasons ) has stepped down over the recent developments.

[CATS44]

Sorry to disappoint you, Kam, but it would be pure foolishness for an entity to continue investing in a community and/or organization that doesnt appreciate the investment, and which refuses to use the funding as it was intended.

Massillon isnt the only community with kids.

200 years ago a street preacher from Nazareth gave advice to His students. His instructions were to go out and offer their gifts to the surrounding towns and villages. For the communities that refused those gifts, His instructions to His students were precise.

Leave and shake the dust off you feet as you do so.

There were also precise instructions that came along with those gifts. I guess you could say that the gifts came with strings attached. Many communities refused those strings, and they ended up missing out on great blessings.

But IMO there is an even more apt instruction from that Preacher...

"neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Thats about as close to what is happening now in Massillon as anything.

[5starred]

Banks, so true we need to thank Coach Vance for his years of service.

[Kamd50]

Sorry to disappoint you, Kam, but it would be pure foolishness for an entity to continue investing in a community and/or organization that doesnt appreciate the investment, and which refuses to use the funding as it was intended.

Massillon isnt the only community with kids.

200 years ago a street preacher from Nazareth gave advice to His students. His instructions were to go out and offer their gifts to the surrounding towns and villages. For the communities that refused those gifts, His instructions to His students were precise.

Leave and shake the dust off you feet as you do so.

There were also precise instructions that came along with those gifts. I guess you could say that the gifts came with strings attached. Many communities refused those strings, and they ended up missing out on great blessings.

But IMO there is an even more apt instruction from that Preacher...

"neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Thats about as close to what is happening now in Massillon as anything.

1 Peter 3:9
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

A person to whom God has given undeserved blessings instead of judgment, should seek the blessing he will receive when giving a free gift of forgiveness to someone who has wronged him (cf. v. 21; Matt. 18:21-35).

Translation:Don't pay people back with evil for the evil they do to you, or ridicule those who ridicule you. Instead, bless them, because you were called to inherit a blessing. Not giving back evil for evil, or curse for curse, but in place of cursing, blessing; because this may be the purpose of God for a person given a heritage of blessings.

I don't feel the appreciation should be expected from the organization or w/e (who I am in NO way defending). It will be felt by and shown in the longrun by the youth of Massillon who stand to benefit from the David Foundation's generosity and concern for them (not the adults).

I would think that if there is a problem with the use of the funding that a solution can be found. Where there is a will, there is a way.

True there are other kids, but the intention was to implement this program where they found the most need, was it not? And that need was found to be more so in this school district, was it not? Not to mention the David families ties and connection to Massillon and Paul Brown.

Why not have the fortitude to stick and make it work rather than dangling the carrot in front of the Massillon students' eyes and then taking it away because the grownups didn't know how to play nice?

[5starred]

The fact is that this whole mess has gotta stop and the project be completed as it is should be. Mr. David has every right to make sure every dime is spent properly as he should.
He has control of the project only he can make it happen or not. If thats putting it on one person well he is the deciding factor, that not a slam.
All are not without sin here, I never said such a thing. However he is driving the bus so lets get together and " getter done ".
I will be in my seat ready for the first home game if its done or not done. The kids will take the field either way. And they will win because we are the TIGERS

[MTigers006]

I agree with everything stated concerning this thread. I am looking for one person to please tell me what our kids are learning from a adult who shuts down a project because he does not like someone or something. Do you think when there is no locker room for the first game the kids will respect ANYONE involved in this mess.

Its HIS money. He can do with it what he wants. Just like if you want to leave a waitress a tip you can because its YOUR money. Shes not twisting your arm. When its your money. Your the boss. I am thankful for the Foundation and the David Family. If it wasnt for them we would be still playing on real grass, paying a groundskeeper, and using a small scoreboard with little bulbs in one color. As well as an outdated scrolling message board. NO TURF, NO FANCY LED SCOREBOARD WITH VIDEO SCREEN/REPLAY. NOTHING!!!

[Banks]

the Foundation and the David Family. If it wasnt for them we would be using a small scoreboard with little bulbs in one color. As well as an outdated scrolling message board. , NO FANCY LED SCOREBOARD WITH VIDEO SCREEN/REPLAY. NOTHING!!!

the David Foundation nor the David family had any part of the scoreboard.
It was done by the Massillon Tiger Football Booster Club .

[massillon catholic]

The kids are going to learn that the corruption, egos, and something resembling PURE nepotism that has been ingrained within the Board of Education for years will soon make way for a "day of reckoning". THAT'S what they will learn. Don't try to put the onus and blame on one person here. THAT just won't fly.

Carl: You should know, I have the real story. Give me a call on our private hot-line.

[CarlE]

Carl: You should know, I have the real story. Give me a call on our private hot-line.

About time.

[Banks]

Hey MC


Did the Jay Hawks get your practice in tonight?

[CarlE]

Hey MC


Did the Jay Hawks get your practice in tonight?

Why do you care? Did you need the field?

[Banks]

Why do you care? Did you need the field?

Nope, I am not getting ready for a game in Cincinnati this weekend.

[5starred]

Good Lord Carle chill out alittle.
All the rain has everyone here a little looney. We have an excuse.
Fla. hot and sunny.

[CATS44]

IMO it is ludicrous and quite unfair to brand a person or organization that spends literally millions of dollars EVERY YEAR to provide college educations to deserving students as somehow against the kids.

But you folks keep clinging to business as usual. Keep trashing anybody who attempts to make positive changes. Keep protecting your little personal turfs.

You shall reap as you sow. We have been reaping...and sowing...for twenty years.

How do you like the harvest?

Personally, I dont like it one bit. And Im siding with the one person who is trying to change things.

[DAWGH8R]

Jerry Vance , Jarred father and long time Massillon Tiger pitching coach ( 15 seasons ) has stepped down over the recent developments.

I think it is time for someone more aggressive to be calling the games anyhow.

[jayjay65]

IMO it is ludicrous and quite unfair to brand a person or organization that spends literally millions of dollars EVERY YEAR to provide college educations to deserving students as somehow against the kids.

But you folks keep clinging to business as usual. Keep trashing anybody who attempts to make positive changes. Keep protecting your little personal turfs.

You shall reap as you sow. We have been reaping...and sowing...for twenty years.

How do you like the harvest?

Personally, I dont like it one bit. And Im siding with the one person who is trying to change things.

To build upon your comments Cats, by perusing the David Foundation website at www.davidscholars.org I counted the following scholarship recipients from Massillon Washington High School, per year:

2004 - 7
2005 - 7
2006 - 7
2007 - 12
2008 - 11

I can't go back any farther than that as the website does not list recipients prior to 2004, however, the above totals to 44 recipients over the last 5 years. The website also states that each recipient is guaranteed to have their scholarship renew for four years so long as they meet the requirements of taking a full time course load and maintain a 2.5 cumulative GPA. If so, each of these recipients will get $22,000 ($5,500 per year) in FREE MONEY from the David Foundation over their four years of college. Working the math, for these 44 kids that translates to $968,000 in FREE MONEY to Massillon kids and families from the David Foundation from this program alone. Add to it, what they contribute to the Boys and Girls Club, the United Way, etc and that's hardly abandoning the families and kids of Massillon... I'm pretty certain that the David Family will continue to help kids and families throughout Stark County for many years to come, it's what they do.

If you are unhappy with what is happening with the school system then point your criticism in the appropriate direction.

Sorry. I admit that this is wildly off topic but I thought this is important, factual information that some of you may not have been aware of.

[Kamd50]

I don't think anyone is questioning the generosity of the David Foundation per the scholarships and other examples you have stated. And I am sure that everyone is very grateful, especially the lucky ones who directly benefit from the scholarships each year. This is truely a blessing to all the surrounding communities and I am sure that there will be a reward in Heaven for those who make such things possible.

Having said that, the concern as far as letting the students down was specifically directed to the subject that there is a possibility of projects like the DREAM and lockerrooms/classrooms not being carried out. At least on my part. Anything that I have personally said is not meant as a slam, unappreciative, disrespectful, or anything else like that. I do not believe that anyone said anything about The DF being against the kids. It was said that the kids will be the ones who end up getting the short end of the stick if w/e problems are going on cannot be resolved somehow. That is simply a fact.

[Red50Go]

The website also states that each recipient is guaranteed to have their scholarship renew for four years so long as they meet the requirements of taking a full time course load and maintain a 2.5 cumulative GPA.

There he goes again, trying to run things. Whats w/ the strings attached? :mad: I wouldn't be shocked to see an actual recipient/family post something like that from what I have read on this site in recent weeks. We better wake up.

[DAWGH8R]

There he goes again, trying to run things. Whats w/ the strings attached? :mad: I wouldn't be shocked to see an actual recipient/family post something like that from what I have read on this site in recent weeks. We better wake up.


If you can't mainatin a 2.5 GPA, you NEED to have your scholly revoked. Why would you waste valuable education dollars on someone who wasn't willing apply theirself ??

Good for the David Foundation !! The 2.5 GPA is WAY more than generous.

Everybody wants something for nothing. :mad:

[austinsm11]

If you can't mainatin a 2.5 GPA, you NEED to have your scholly revoked. Why would you waste valuable education dollars on someone who wasn't willing apply theirself ??

Good for the David Foundation !! The 2.5 GPA is WAY more than generous.

Everybody wants something for nothing. :mad:

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Red50Go]

Have sarcasm / half fed up. I am a HUGE David supporter.

No offense Dawgh8r but...wow. :poke:

[DAWGH8R]

Have sarcasm / half fed up. I am a HUGE David supporter.

No offense Dawgh8r but...wow.

You threw me off !! Had you used the :rolleyes:, instead of the :mad: , I would have caught on to the sarcasm !!

[PurpleArmy]

To build upon your comments Cats, by perusing the David Foundation website at www.davidscholars.org I counted the following scholarship recipients from Massillon Washington High School, per year:

2004 - 7
2005 - 7
2006 - 7
2007 - 12
2008 - 11

I can't go back any farther than that as the website does not list recipients prior to 2004, however, the above totals to 44 recipients over the last 5 years. The website also states that each recipient is guaranteed to have their scholarship renew for four years so long as they meet the requirements of taking a full time course load and maintain a 2.5 cumulative GPA. If so, each of these recipients will get $22,000 ($5,500 per year) in FREE MONEY from the David Foundation over their four years of college. Working the math, for these 44 kids that translates to $968,000 in FREE MONEY to Massillon kids and families from the David Foundation from this program alone. Add to it, what they contribute to the Boys and Girls Club, the United Way, etc and that's hardly abandoning the families and kids of Massillon... I'm pretty certain that the David Family will continue to help kids and families throughout Stark County for many years to come, it's what they do.

If you are unhappy with what is happening with the school system then point your criticism in the appropriate direction.

Sorry. I admit that this is wildly off topic but I thought this is important, factual information that some of you may not have been aware of.

The link you posted for the David Foundation didn't work. Do you have another one maybe?

[CarlE]

Jeff David has WAY more patience (and money lol) than me. I would have told you all to take a hike WEEKS ago if I were him. And kamd50; nice backtrack. Obviously you have seen the error of your previous posts now that I have learned you have a child coming up througn the system. The hypocrisy of it all nauseates me.

[jayjay65]

I don't think anyone is questioning the generosity of the David Foundation per the scholarships and other examples you have stated. And I am sure that everyone is very grateful, especially the lucky ones who directly benefit from the scholarships each year. This is truely a blessing to all the surrounding communities and I am sure that there will be a reward in Heaven for those who make such things possible.

Having said that, the concern as far as letting the students down was specifically directed to the subject that there is a possibility of projects like the DREAM and lockerrooms/classrooms not being carried out. At least on my part. Anything that I have personally said is not meant as a slam, unappreciative, disrespectful, or anything else like that. I do not believe that anyone said anything about The DF being against the kids. It was said that the kids will be the ones who end up getting the short end of the stick if w/e problems are going on cannot be resolved somehow. That is simply a fact.

Sorry, the link is www.davidscholar.org my fault

Kamd50, I know that you are not slamming the Foundation and you have been a big supporter in what they do. You also always seem to have the best interest of the kids in mind when you post. I didn't mean my post to be perceived as an attack on you. It was not.

I AM having a problem with the discussion of the concept of 'fortitude' and 'stick with it and make it work' with respect to the David Foundation's current position on the DREAM project. Typically, having fortitude is defined as 'mental and emotional strength in facing difficulty, adversity, danger, or temptation courageously'. Sticking with it and 'making it work' implies that one has control over whatever situation that needs to be overcome in order to influence a positive outcome. There, I believe, is the disconnect. The David Foundation is writing checks to fund facilities and programs. THAT is there sphere of control. If they attempt to influence the outcome of the present issues within the school they will be accused of trying to 'run the school' and funding projects 'with strings attached'. If they step back, as they have, to see what the leadership on the BOE and the school admin do, they are accused of abandoning the children. In my mind, continuing to write checks under the present situation is NOT fortitude (and in fact borders on foolishness) and I am not at all convinced that that would 'make it work' in any way, shape or form. I would argue that continuing to fund the project would serve to ENABLE the status quo and not force whatever changes are necessary to restore a properly functioning, child centric, taxpayer responsible, BOE and administration.

If I am wrong in this argument, please tell me why (it would not be the first time I was wrong!)

[Kamd50]

Sorry, the link is www.davidscholar.org my fault

Kamd50, I know that you are not slamming the Foundation and you have been a big supporter in what they do. You also always seem to have the best interest of the kids in mind when you post. I didn't mean my post to be perceived as an attack on you. It was not.

I AM having a problem with the discussion of the concept of 'fortitude' and 'stick with it and make it work' with respect to the David Foundation's current position on the DREAM project. Typically, having fortitude is defined as 'mental and emotional strength in facing difficulty, adversity, danger, or temptation courageously'. Sticking with it and 'making it work' implies that one has control over whatever situation that needs to be overcome in order to influence a positive outcome. There, I believe, is the disconnect. The David Foundation is writing checks to fund facilities and programs. THAT is there sphere of control. If present issues withinthey attempt to influence the outcome of the the school they will be accused of trying to 'run the school' and funding projects 'with strings attached'. If they step back, as they have, to see what the leadership on the BOE and the school admin do, they are accused of abandoning the children. In my mind, continuing to write checks under the present situation is NOT fortitude (and in fact borders on foolishness) and I am not at all convinced that that would 'make it work' in any way, shape or form. I would argue that continuing to fund the project would serve to ENABLE the status quo and not force whatever changes are necessary to restore a properly functioning, child centric, taxpayer responsible, BOE and administration.

If I am wrong in this argument, please tell me why (it would not be the first time I was wrong!)

First of all, thank you for your clarification on all counts and for not attacking me. I know too, through our correspondence, that we agree much more than not; especially on the point of restoring the credibillity of the BOE and admin. You are a good person that I enjoy exchanging thoughts with.

You make it a little more clear when you state "The David Foundation is writing checks to fund facilities and programs. THAT is there sphere of control." If that is the case and the problem is that the money is being mishandled, then I guess they have to do what they have to do.

I guess my question to that situation is this; and I am sure I will sound ignorant to some that think they know everything, too bad, when someone or some organization donates such large amounts of money to a certain project or w/e, why is it that there is not something in writing that specifically states what and how the money should be used? If this were done, would it not prevent a lot of problems? And the only reason I am asking this is because a nother poster has said that the money is misused.

The whole situation just makes me sad and frustrated for the sake of the kids. And I still am holding out hope for the best.

[Kamd50]

Jeff David has WAY more patience (and money lol) than me. I would have told you all to take a hike WEEKS ago if I were him. And kamd50; nice backtrack. Obviously you have seen the error of your previous posts now that I have learned you have a child coming up througn the system. The hypocrisy of it all nauseates me.

And as far as you are concerned, carle, you don't know how I think, or feel, or anything about me. I have not back peddled on anything at all. I have always stated my honest opinion about things, and never ever once attacked the David foundation. Rather, expressed my disappointment and mis-understanding of the matter.

Having a child coming up through the system has nothing to do with my feelings, as he is my fourth one to go through it, so it is nothing new to me. As if you finding out that I have a child in school has anything at all to do with me realizing anything, is just plain funny!

While it is true my son has been accepted into the DREAM program, I am not personally worried about him. He will go to college no matter what. More than likely on an athletic scholarship. He is a strong, smart, athletic, talented, personable, & very determined kid. We have no worries about his specific situation. It is for the other kids as a whole, now and in the future, as well as the school system itself, that is what I am concerned about.

I will ask you, as you have asked Banks in another post, what do you care? He at least lives here and is a very active and concerned member of our community as well as having grandchildren who will be a part of our school system. You just want to get on here and ridicule people like me who actually have an honest love and interest in the community in which we live to make so that you can make yourself sound superior to us all. Nice try, but it nauseates not only me, but a lot of us.

[CarlE]

Sorry for caring about the city I grew up in and what happens to its future. That IS honest and it IS an interest. If that nauseates you then so be it. Chances are I contribute as much, or MORE to the economy of Massillon than you do. That alone should suffice for me being able to come on here and state my feelings. Nice job, though jumping on the "Carl is an Elitist" bandwagon. There are now two members. BOTH of which I could care less about.

[Kamd50]

Sorry for caring about the city I grew up in and what happens to its future. That IS honest and it IS an interest. If that nauseates you then so be it. Chances are I contribute as much, or MORE to the economy of Massillon than you do. That alone should suffice for me being able to come on here and state my feelings. Nice job, though jumping on the "Carl is an Elitist" bandwagon. There are now two members. BOTH of which I could care less about.

Don't kid yourself, two members plus infinity.

So you think that it is noble of yourself for stating on a website that you care about where you grow up? Yet, when someone who actually lives here and raises their kids here states their own concerns, it is not acceptable to you. While at the same time, you repeatedly knock the people of Massillon with your "you people up there...blah blah blah" comments all of the time. Or how you like to insinuate that the people in Massillon don't understand anything except what kids between 16 -19 years old do on Friday nights. You insult the citizens of the community you care about so much every chance you get.THAT is being a hypocrit.

By "contribute" you must be speaking in terms of cash, as always. I am sure you are right.. So what! We give what we can financially. But my entire family has given so much more in other ways for many many years. In volunteer time, working with kids in schools and for teams. Providing moral and physical support in many different ways; from working behind the scenes, donating, feeding,volunteering, coaching, driving, helping, listening, and guiding them. Doing the mundane everyday ordinary things for kids that people who aren't here can't and probably wouldn't even if they did live here. It is far better and has more of an impact on the children of this community to actually spend hands-on time with them and show them that you care than dropping some money in an envelope ever will accomplish.

[TigerCoach]

Anyway, my last response on this. And yes, I'll be posting WAY less now.:deal: I guess deals are made to be broken! LOL

Keno, get out the boxing gloves. You are the referee on this one!

[Kamd50]

Anyway, my last response on this. And yes, I'll be posting WAY less now.:deal: I guess deals are made to be broken! LOL

Keno, get out the boxing gloves. You are the referee on this one!

Yes, please be a man of your word, and keep it.

[CarlE]

Yes, TC PLEASE post less. God knows we don't want anybody with intelligence and people embracing the good things on here. Leave it to those that are just so, SO good at getting things done. LOL.

[Kamd50]

Yes, TC PLEASE post less. God knows we don't want anybody with intelligence and people embracing the good things on here. Leave it to those that are just so, SO good at getting things done. LOL.

LOL, that post was a quote of yours, and was directed towards you:poke:

[TigerCoach]

I am forced to post less, I'm the only one around here who works hard during the day!!!!! Dick Cheney & I are making money on my Exxon and Haliburton stocks.

[5starred]

It's time to back up here and state that I as well as everyone else here knows for a FACT that the David Foundation is profound in their dedication to educate children.
Also I have no favorite son ( so to speak ) on the BOE.
There are 2 phases to the DREAM Project, phase one is business as usual. Phase 2 is stalled, for reasons we will never know or understand. Construction time is ticking by. I don't believe Mr David stopped the project just for the heck of it.

If the BOE is the rat in the wood pile, then there must be away to right that wrong instead of sitting around waiting for them to resign.
Recall ? Impeach ? But lets do something please.
Jeff David is doing a good thing,or better yet, really great things . I'm sure he'll do it and do it right .

[massillon catholic]

Nope, I am not getting ready for a game in Cincinnati this weekend.

Headin to Cincy noon on Friday.

[jayjay65]

I guess my question to that situation is this; and I am sure I will sound ignorant to some that think they know everything, too bad, when someone or some organization donates such large amounts of money to a certain project or w/e, why is it that there is not something in writing that specifically states what and how the money should be used? If this were done, would it not prevent a lot of problems? And the only reason I am asking this is because a nother poster has said that the money is misused.

My understanding is the concern is not that money has been misused for the DREAM project but rather is the leadership in place to warrant continued funding of the project. Once the facilities are in place, there will be an ongoing funding requirement for the programs and curriculum that encompass the DREAM project particularly if the offerings are expanded and/or more kids are added to the program. I would guess that the school would be required to bear some portion of that cost going forward. If that assumption is correct, those that were part of the original team are, or will soon be, no longer a part of the school system and the incoming superintendent, who I believe was looped in to the planning, bailed before his term even started. Couple with it the infighting on the BOE and the pending ethics investigation and there is a whole host of uncertainties that surround the school and the current commitment level by the school for the DREAM project. The 'fortitude' must come from the school admin and BOE for DREAM to be truly successful, not from the David Foundation. They, the school, will be the keeper of the keys so to speak and must be the champions of the project going forward. The David Foundation can help fund the project and possibly bring in more collaborators/funders but they, ultimately, do not drive the bus.

[TigerCoach]

My understanding is the concern is not that money has been misused for the DREAM project but rather is the leadership in place to warrant continued funding of the project. Once the facilities are in place, there will be an ongoing funding requirement for the programs and curriculum that encompass the DREAM project particularly if the offerings are expanded and/or more kids are added to the program. I would guess that the school would be required to bear some portion of that cost going forward. If that assumption is correct, those that were part of the original team are, or will soon be, no longer a part of the school system and the incoming superintendent, who I believe was looped in to the planning, bailed before his term even started. Couple with it the infighting on the BOE and the pending ethics investigation and there is a whole host of uncertainties that surround the school and the current commitment level by the school for the DREAM project. The 'fortitude' must come from the school admin and BOE for DREAM to be truly successful, not from the David Foundation. They, the school, will be the keeper of the keys so to speak and must be the champions of the project going forward. The David Foundation can help fund the project and possibly bring in more collaborators/funders but they, ultimately, do not drive the bus.

It's been a leadership issue for many years. I thought Fred Blosser was doing a commendable job in his short tenure, but unfortunately (like past football coaches) couldn't put up any longer with the school board and the meddlers.

[American Eagle]

The blinders remain. I'm just trying to make a point that this happens everywhere and it's not some freaking conspiracy against Massillon kids. You, who knows NOTHING about the subject would prefer to throw smart-aleck remarks out.

Good for YOU.

GROW UP!

[Banks]

Headin to Cincy noon on Friday.

Congrats for winning all.

[massillon catholic]

Congrats for winning all.

Thanks. We had to play back to back to back games in 95 degree heat with only nine players. Btw, Vance played great!

[TiGeRsRoCk_23]

yah i went to community park to watch my little sis play softball and me and one of my friends were walkin around the other fields and we saw tht team but every time we passed they were in the outfield and the boy tht was hitting (opposing team) hit it to third base and the boy tht was on MASSILLON HEAT didn't get "in front of the ball" and missed the catch... then the coach got really mad and started yellin and i was sitting there thinking this can't be good for MASSILLON'S rep...... :scratchchin:

[CarlE]

yah i went to community park to watch my little sis play softball and me and one of my friends were walkin around the other fields and we saw tht team but every time we passed they were in the outfield and the boy tht was hitting (opposing team) hit it to third base and the boy tht was on MASSILLON HEAT didn't get "in front of the ball" and missed the catch... then the coach got really mad and started yellin and i was sitting there thinking this can't be good for MASSILLON'S rep...... :scratchchin:

Are you freaking KIDDING ME? Get in FRONT of the damn ball. So now coaches aren't allowed to yell? What are they supposed to do on a traveling team, which obviously you aren't familiar with? Tell them "great try, better luck next time"? Sorry, that's not how it works in the real world.

[TiGeRsRoCk_23]

Are you freaking KIDDING ME? Get in FRONT of the damn ball. So now coaches aren't allowed to yell? What are they supposed to do on a traveling team, which obviously you aren't familiar with? Tell them "great try, better luck next time"? Sorry, that's not how it works in the real world.

ok i'm sorry if i have my opinions.... wow ppl today :ohplease: well all i'm saying is isn't there enough problems concerning massillon today?? we don't need any more.

[MRR55]

if you people think that jeff david is doing this for the kids of massillon your nuts. he's running these baseball teams with kids he is trying to recruit along with our head baseball coach.. these boys are from all over hell. they arent massillon, they're jackson or perry or whatever. thats the problem around here, we dont work with our own kids we go out and recruit, and guess what we havent seen a state title in anything in years!

[DAWGH8R]

if you people think that jeff david is doing this for the kids of massillon your nuts. he's running these baseball teams with kids he is trying to recruit along with our head baseball coach.. these boys are from all over hell. they arent massillon, they're jackson or perry or whatever. thats the problem around here, we dont work with our own kids we go out and recruit, and guess what we havent seen a state title in anything in years!

And the people that ARE winning the STATE TITLES have zero recruits ,, RIGHT ??????? http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/images/smilies/s4.gif

[monte81]

And the people that ARE winning the STATE TITLES have zero recruits ,, RIGHT ??????? http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/images/smilies/s4.gif

Bring the Massillon kids home for a change. I have 4 massillon kids on my football team in C-bus and a few others on my sons baseball team. The economy has driven diehard Massillon people out of town and we have to find a way to get home. I have 1 year left to make it happen!!

[CarlE]

if you people think that jeff david is doing this for the kids of massillon your nuts. he's running these baseball teams with kids he is trying to recruit along with our head baseball coach.. these boys are from all over hell. they arent massillon, they're jackson or perry or whatever. thats the problem around here, we dont work with our own kids we go out and recruit, and guess what we havent seen a state title in anything in years!

Um, it's a travel team. You're SUPPOSED to recruit the best talent. Do you people honestly have a clue with what you are talking about? Last year I actually CUT three kids trying out for my travel team that had played on my Little League (hometown) team. It's what you are SUPPOSED to do.

[monte81]

Um, it's a travel team. You're SUPPOSED to recruit the best talent. Do you people honestly have a clue with what you are talking about? Last year I actually CUT three kids trying out for my travel team that had played on my Little League (hometown) team. It's what you are SUPPOSED to do.


RIGHT!!! we have a city all-star team for football that travels at the end of the season for tourneys. It is hard to tell some of my hardest working kids that they did not make the team.

MRR55---if some of those kids decide to come to Massillon and play baseball after the experience of playing for jeff's team then that is a BONUS!

[savage4president]

Um, it's a travel team. You're SUPPOSED to recruit the best talent. Do you people honestly have a clue with what you are talking about? Last year I actually CUT three kids trying out for my travel team that had played on my Little League (hometown) team. It's what you are SUPPOSED to do.


Just out of curiosity...how old are we talking with this traveling team?

[CarlE]

Just out of curiosity...how old are we talking with this traveling team?

Under 13. So 11-12 year olds. There won't be any 11's on the team this year. We're loading for bear. Why do you ask?

[massillon catholic]

The Massillon Heat's 11u team is very talented and has players from Jackson, Canton South, Dover and maybe another area that slips my mind. Carl is correct, this is a traveling team and they are competing in the Major division as required since they have a percentage of players outside of the teams school district. I think its a little premature to suggest that David and Guscoff are recruiting the boys to come to Massillon. They are only going to be in the 6th grade next fall. Besides, I would expect Spike Ridgley to be the baseball coach by then anyways. He's going to be a very good coach.

[savage4president]

Under 13. So 11-12 year olds. There won't be any 11's on the team this year. We're loading for bear. Why do you ask?


CarlE,

I'm honestly not looking to make waves with you or anything...actually, I admire the fact that you are willing to put forth the time and effort with these young men. However, I have a problem with where sports is leading this nation, and how it seems to be taking over everthing in a childs life. I have no problems with ANY kid playing sports and lots of them (I coached HS football for 11 years), but it just seems to me that everything is getting way too intensive at a way too young of an age.

The main reason I asked is simply because you used the words "recruit" and "talent" in the post. Neither of which I personally believe should ever be used on an 11 or 12 year old. I'm not looking to pee in your pool at all...it's just the way I feel about sports and adolesence.

[CarlE]

I certainly didn't take it that way, believe me. I was hoping you had a big, strapping 12 year old that could bring heat that you wanted to give me for the summer!! LOL.

[massillon catholic]

I certainly didn't take it that way, believe me. I was hoping you had a big, strapping 12 year old that could bring heat that you wanted to give me for the summer!! LOL.


Carl: I can tell you that he has a three you old that isnt afraid of anything, including his dad.:devil:

[coachsam]

As a coach who had lost a few of my Richville boys to the HEAT and who has two boys who are still getting phone calls about joining the HEAT ( Yes, phone calls by Guscoffs wife) as well as having some of my players being told about how great the new middle school is and how they should attend, and who has also observed the injustice done to the Massillon 12 yr old hot stove team ( The field that they are given is shameful, short fences, barely raked infield, etc..) I hope that they get what they deserve. They need to wake up and realize that the future Tigers are coming from their hot stove ranks. I have hads the pleasure playing the 13 yr old team last year as well as Jamie's team the past 2 years. All are very well coached and very well skilled. If Teddy had a brain in his head he would be offering all of the support that he could to help assist these future Tigers. I also want to personally thank Jamie, Mark, and their coaches, players, and fans as we had two memorable hard fought games this season. We split the series this year with both of us winning on dramatic last inning heroics. ( They had a walk off home run in their victory and we had stole home in ours. ) They truly were the best games of the year.

[npaflas]

Are you freaking KIDDING ME? Get in FRONT of the damn ball. So now coaches aren't allowed to yell? What are they supposed to do on a traveling team, which obviously you aren't familiar with? Tell them "great try, better luck next time"? Sorry, that's not how it works in the real world.

You know since we move away every thing has change for the wrost.

[CarlE]

As a coach who had lost a few of my Richville boys to the HEAT and who has two boys who are still getting phone calls about joining the HEAT ( Yes, phone calls by Guscoffs wife) as well as having some of my players being told about how great the new middle school is and how they should attend, and who has also observed the injustice done to the Massillon 12 yr old hot stove team ( The field that they are given is shameful, short fences, barely raked infield, etc..) I hope that they get what they deserve. They need to wake up and realize that the future Tigers are coming from their hot stove ranks. I have hads the pleasure playing the 13 yr old team last year as well as Jamie's team the past 2 years. All are very well coached and very well skilled. If Teddy had a brain in his head he would be offering all of the support that he could to help assist these future Tigers. I also want to personally thank Jamie, Mark, and their coaches, players, and fans as we had two memorable hard fought games this season. We split the series this year with both of us winning on dramatic last inning heroics. ( They had a walk off home run in their victory and we had stole home in ours. ) They truly were the best games of the year.

I call to recruit kids all the time. I also drive to their games to talk to their parents. I honestly don't see the problem with this. I also don't see the problem with three, yes THREE teams calling my house at 10:00 at night recruiting my 11 year old girl for their soccer teams. This is what we do, folks.

[massillon catholic]

As a coach who had lost a few of my Richville boys to the HEAT and who has two boys who are still getting phone calls about joining the HEAT ( Yes, phone calls by Guscoffs wife) as well as having some of my players being told about how great the new middle school is and how they should attend, and who has also observed the injustice done to the Massillon 12 yr old hot stove team ( The field that they are given is shameful, short fences, barely raked infield, etc..) I hope that they get what they deserve. They need to wake up and realize that the future Tigers are coming from their hot stove ranks. I have hads the pleasure playing the 13 yr old team last year as well as Jamie's team the past 2 years. All are very well coached and very well skilled. If Teddy had a brain in his head he would be offering all of the support that he could to help assist these future Tigers. I also want to personally thank Jamie, Mark, and their coaches, players, and fans as we had two memorable hard fought games this season. We split the series this year with both of us winning on dramatic last inning heroics. ( They had a walk off home run in their victory and we had stole home in ours. ) They truly were the best games of the year.


I expect next years Heat team to consist of one 11 yr old team, one 12 year old team and one 13 year old team. Since I dont live in Massillon I am not too familiar with the field situation other than what I read on here and hear at our games in Jackson. Sounds like a mess to me. I have heard that the guys you mentioned have done a very good job in the past.