School system update

[MWEINBERG]

In reponse to those who have contacted me about not posting in a while...
I apologize for not being more active in keeping folks up to date on the current goings on in our school system. I would hope to be able to fill everyone in on current activities but State Law prohibits me from commenting on certain issues at this time. Anyone who knows me understands my desire to create as open an environment as possible. The involvement of the citizens of our town is vital to the success of our schools.
In 5 minutes I must go off to another series of meetings that will take me late into the night. Not unlike every evening this week! Please know that I am actively taking measures to raise the bar in all aspects of this school system. I am conducting myself in the most Honorable way possible so as to be an example to those around me. I will not tolerate any impropriety on behalf of anyone in this school system at any level. I begin each day with the knowledge that I am fighting for the very future of our children. Rest assured that business as usual has left the station. In the comming weeks you will understand. Many of you were born Tigers. I was elected by a vote of the people. I take that honor very seriously as some folks are learning. M

[massillon catholic]

Mr. Weinberg: I support you and understand that you are limited in what you can say outside of board meetings. Please keep us informed in what you can say. I am deeply disturbed that a few board members appear to be creating all of the trouble. I fully support Jeff David in everything he does for Massillon. He has always had the best interest of the district at heart as did has father. We certainly need David far more than these bone-head board members who appear to be clue-less and determined to start a mutiny. I wouldnt blame him at all if he decided to hold back funds for the new locker room or any other projects that he is paying for with his and his family's hard earned money, until these board members are replaced. You are not included as one who needs replaced. Thanks MC

[TigerLily]

Thank you so much for giving us this update. We appreciate the contact and any information you can give us.

It's reassuring to know of your concern.

[MTigers006]

Its comforting to know someone loves and cares about Massillon and the Tigers as much as the MP.com and community does. God Bless you and I thankyou from the bottom of my heart. Keep up the good work and for getting on here and letting everyone know what you can tell us.

[ChronicTiger]

Thank you so much for giving us this update. We appreciate the contact and any information you can give us.

It's reassuring to know of your concern.

What update?

[Coke Guy]

Shouldn't this thread be in a different forum?

[Red50Go]

What update?

Yeah really. Did I miss something? Other than a dont look at me speech.

[Kamd50]

So, it's against the law for our elected public officials to tell the public what is and has been really going on?!

[DragonTigerNemesis]

So, it's against the law for our elected public officials to tell the public what is and has been really going on?!

Yes.
They are bound by law to not speak on behalf of the board unless sanctioned by the board.

What a crock, huh?

[beer buck]

There is always the ol standby IMO. It works everytime. Anyway thats all it boils down to is a bunch of opinions. If everyone would stop the play for king pin we could get on with the business of educating our kids.

[TigerLily]

Did you see any other board member on here even attempting to communicate with us??? Give him some credit! Are all of you so versed in the workings and rules of the Board? Yes…it was an update in as far as anything he could communicate. I believe him.

[Indiana95]

What about the Sunshine Laws that protect the rights of residents? I would bet that the media or anyone from the general public would have a strong case against this school board for its excessive and sometimes illegal use of executive session to discuss items that should be vetted in the sunshine. To enter into executive session, a specific purpose must be declared, not generalities. Furthermore, I guarantee that the discussions once in ex. session do not stick to the purpose of the session in the first place, which is not only against the law, but further blocks the public's right to know about board business.

If there truly are board members who want to do the right thing, then I would suspect protests to ex. session, so board business could be discussed openly in the sunshine. The chronic use of executive session only leads the pulic to believe that the board is hiding things.

[ChronicTiger]

Did you see any other board member on here even attempting to communicate with us??? Give him some credit! Are all of you so versed in the workings and rules of the Board? Yes…it was an update in as far as anything he could communicate. I believe him.

It was an update on nothing. Communicate what? Credit for what? How does this person feel about any of the issues facing the schoold district? What is his stance on anything? What measures exactly is he taking to raise the bar in the school system? What aspects of the school system does he think need the bar raised?

If your going to show up on a public forum give me something besides a bunch of tap dancing........

:coolgleam:

[CATS44]

A BOE member is not allowed to talk about peronnel situations. He/she is not allowed to speak 'on behalf of the BOE'.

He/she is allowed to speak out on his/her own behalf.

The 'communication' we have received from Mr Weinberg is as much of a communication as a political sound bite...a lot of words that communicate nothing.

How about some specifics answers from Mr Weinberg?

1) Will you vote for or against the hiring of the personal friends or relatives of any BOE member or administrator?

2) Will residency be one of your requirements for any administrative hiring?

3) How will you handle any administrative infighting that you become aware of?

4) How much influence do you feel the David Foundation should have over the academic projects it funds? And how will you go about ensuring that your point of view is enforced?

5) Will you vote for or against hiring an administrator for a financial position if that administrator has very little background in finance or budget?

6) What specifically are you doing to solve the impasse with the non certified personnel?

7) What specifically are you doing now to prepare for the upcoming negotiations with the teachers union? How much time have you spent in conversations with the teachers union leaders?

8)We have lost two Superintendents in the last six months, both very suddenly and without warning. What are you doing specifically to solve whatever problems caused those resignations?

9) Do you think that Mr Blosser would consider staying on? Do you think it would be in the best interests of MCS if he does? If so, what are you doing to make that happen?

10) How much influence do former BOE members and past BC presidents have upon your actions on the present BOE?

And, since this primarily a football forum:

11) Do you support the administrations efforts to join the Fed?

12) If so, what are you doing to help? If not, what are you doing to stop those efforts?

13) Do you believe that Massillon football coaches should be hired with the intention of being here long term? If so, will you support the retention of the coach beyond five years publicly, even if your support flies in the face of strong opposition from the BC and other members of the BOE?

And perhaps the most important question of all, because it covers everything:

14) Will you take a strong and very public stand on what you think is right, even if you have to stand alone? Sometimes it is neccessary for one person to stand up and say very loudly, "This is wrong. And Im going to fight it, even if I lose." Sometimes it is neccessary even when all your friends think otherwise. Can you do that, Mr Weinberg? Will you do that?

I have more, including questions about MMS, test scores, elementary school enrollment, the importance of extra curriculars, GPAS for extra curricular participants, athletic conduct codes, etc...but this should keep you busy for a while.

If you want to see what I believe is a real attempt at political communication on this forum, look up how Larry Slagle handled his controversial vote on bringing a poultry operation into the city. He explained his vote in detail for everybody to see. Im sure that not everybody agreed with him, but when he was done everybody knew exactly where he stood and why he stood there.

Thank you in advance,

John Wolf

[sis2turftiger]

CATS44:

Good questions, but I'm curious about a couple of them.

1) Will you vote for or against the hiring of the personal friends or relatives of any BOE member or administrator?

Does this happen a lot?

2) Will residency be one of your requirements for any administrative hiring?

Why should this be required, in your opinion?


5) Will you vote for or against hiring an administrator for a financial position if that administrator has very little background in finance or budget?

Are you implying that this has been done before?

I'm not trying to start a debate or anything - your questions just make me think that these things have happened in the past. I say ask away!

[Seeker]

1) Will you vote for or against the hiring of the personal friends or relatives of any BOE member or administrator?
Personally, I don't see a problem with hiring personal friends or relatives of BOE members or administors, BUT, that should never be the reason that they are hired.




I'm not trying to start a debate or anything -
Didn't you say in another post that you loved a good debate? :rock:

[sis2turftiger]

Personally, I don't see a problem with hiring personal friends or relatives of BOE members or administors, BUT, that should never be the reason that they are hired.





Didn't you say in another post that you loved a good debate? :rock:

I do love a good debate, Seeker, but this time I was merely curious.

I'm not against hiring relatives, etc., but I agree with you that it should not be the SOLE reason they are hired.

As for administrators being residents or not - I don't care as long as they are 100% focused on helping MCS and its students succeed. It would also be nice if they planned to stay for more than a couple of years!

[Red50Go]

sis, CATS44 did not offer any opinions on whether we should hire relatives, have a residency requirement, join the Fed, etc. The point is it sure would be nice to know where members of the BOE stood.

EXCELLENT post CATS44. What a great opportunity you provide for our newest BOE member Mr. Weinberg to endear himself to us, with some honest answers. That really would be "business as usual has left the station"! I am looking forward to his response.

Any other board member should certainly feel free too!

[5starred]

This type of word game playing is typical of MW. Since he hit town back in the 80's he has always talked his way into many things, and then right into trouble . Not much good has come from his dealing. It must be said no harm to anyone I know of, just a bunch of double talk.
Hes good at that, you'll soon find out

[CATS44]

My opinion doesnt matter, because I am not on the BOE....but most folks on this forum should be well aware of them by now. :biggrin:

My questions are not meant to imply anything, but they should be of concern to everybody who cares about the MCS.

These are IMO questions that every candidate should answer BEFORE being elected...and with the current situation every present BOE member should be expected to answer.

If CATS44 were to run for BOE, a victory which should be devoutly avoided, you would get these answers:

1) I would push for a no nepotism policy. The problems that come about due to nepotism far outweigh any possible plusses.

2) Residency would not be a requirement if it was up to me. The housing problems and personal costs in moving would greatly restrict, perhaps eliminate, our ability to hire good administrators.

3) Any administrative infighters would quickly be reminded that they have contracts that frequently come up for renewal. Those that refuse to get along will be requested to move along. (Of course, I would only have one vote in the matter, but it would be a publicly known vote for non renewal.)

4) The David Foundation should have as much say in how the DREAM project is run as it desires, as long as decisions it makes follows state law. Nobody has ever attempted to do this kind of thing before, and the folks that put the dream in motion have a vision already in place. The David Foundation has put together huge projects in the past and have experience that nobody in the MCS has. It would be ridiculous to not allow them to hold the reins.

5) Absolutely no way. How on earth can a BOE member go to the public for funding and defend putting a non financial person in a position of finance?

6/7) I dont know, because I am not involved. But I do know this. Our teachers and non certified staff have served us well and deserve every consideration possible....esp when our BOE has had no problem handing out big contracts to administrators that were very close to retirement.

8) Again, I dont know, because I am not involved. But if there are folks, affiliated or not with the MCS, who are hindering things so badly that we cant hire or retain a top administrator, they would hear from me, and loudly enough that most folks paying attention would know who they were.

9) Again, I dont know the answers to this three part question.

10) I would hope to be guided by what is right, and not by folks who want to use me to retain political influence with in the MCS. I do have a list of people whose judgement I trust, even when we dont agree. I would certainly ask them for guidance at times. But those folks who approach me in an attempt to get their hands on the running of the MCS or football program probably already know better.

To be a little more specific, I have great admiration for one former BOE member, and I would hope that he/she would offer me sage advice. I also have a close friend who has served a long time on the BOE of another system. I would lean on him for advice. I have people very close to me who have had a lot of service as school administrators, not in Massillon. I would ask questions of them. I have close friends who I admire, and who have served in various political positions not affiliated with schools. Id have them on speed dial. Politician is not a dirty word to me. Good politicians get good things done. I would hope to be a good politician, and so I would lean on those who have been good politicians.

11/12) Yes to the Fed, and I would do everything in my limited (one vote) power to ensure that our administrators are taking the lead in cooperating with all the surrounding school systems at all levels....not just athletically. If we in the MCS cant get along with our neighbors, how can we ever hope that the world will get along? All the area schools should be doing everything possible to share assets and ideas that promote the welfare of every child in Western Stark County.

13) Long term coaches have been proven to work. Stabilty is neccessary to any long term achievement. When 'traditions' begin to be albatrosses, they have out grown their value. If a coach comes in here, has success on the field, and proves he can maintain excellence in the things necessary for long term success on the field.....if his players show discipline on the field, in school, and within the community...if the oversight is in place for our players to achieve reasonable academic progress...we shouldnt change coaches like underwear. Im no football coach, so my questions for an applicant would focus on program building, program maintenance, and his desire to be the coach of the Massillon Tigers until he retires.

Im an alum of THE Ohio State University. ( I did not graduate from there) As such, I want Massillon to provide the Buckeyes with as many superior student-athletes as possible. But Coach Tressel cant have our coaches. :biggrin:

14) Nobody that knows me needs to ask this question.

Now these are the types of questions that we should demand to be answered before we elect somebody to the BOE. We should be asking these questions of all the candidates, not the innocuous questions that are asked by the Inde at the socalled Candidates Forum.

And if we dont get answers, we shouldnt vote for those who refuse to give them.

[ChronicTiger]

Nice work 44..........

Curious.......how do you feel about BOE members posting on this forum?

[jayjay65]

Cats44:

Although I greatly appreciate you educating me and others on multiple fronts with respect to Massillon's history, I believe that your talents are somewhat wasted in posting to these threads on Massillon Proud. I believe that the community would be FAR better served if you ran for the BOE the next time a seat is up for re-election.

You certainly seem very qualified to me and have a rich and thorough understanding of the history of previous administrations from which to draw learning lessons so as not to repeat mistakes of the past. In addition, you are fair and thorough in presenting your arguments (which are always very well thought out) and you resist the name calling that is often present in these forums.

So...what do you say?

[DragonTigerNemesis]

Cats44:

Although I greatly appreciate you educating me and others on multiple fronts with respect to Massillon's history, I believe that your talents are somewhat wasted in posting to these threads on Massillon Proud. I believe that the community would be FAR better served if you ran for the BOE the next time a seat is up for re-election.

You certainly seem very qualified to me and have a rich and thorough understanding of the history of previous administrations from which to draw learning lessons so as not to repeat mistakes of the past. In addition, you are fair and thorough in presenting your arguments (which are always very well thought out) and you resist the name calling that is often present in these forums.

So...what do you say?

I second that!
And I want Obie Wan to run also!

:gotigers:

[CATS44]

jayjay: I say that you are a pile of residue scooped up from the bottom of the Tusc. :biggrin:

General Shermans most famous quotation comes immediately to mind.

[jayjay65]

jayjay: I say that you are a pile of residue scooped up from the bottom of the Tusc. :biggrin:

General Shermans most famous quotation comes immediately to mind.

So much for the no name calling thing.... :furious:

I'm not sure which General Sherman quote you are referring to but I would submit this one for you:

"Courage - a perfect sensibility of the measure of danger, and a mental willingness to endure it."

[DAWGH8R]

I'll bet it's more along the lines of.....................

"If nominated, I will not accept; if drafted, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve !"

:biggrin:

[CATS44]

Nice quotation, there, jayjay.

It fits nicely into what we need on the BOE.

But it isnt the quote that I had in mind.

"If drafted, I will nor run. If nominated, I will not accept. If elected, I will not serve."

Id rather go golfing. :cool2:

[Ron Halter]

I have known Mr.Weinberg for many years. I am sure he would like to answer all of the questions posed on this thread. If he did, I am sure he would ofend
10 to 15 of the posters on this thread. Give him a chance and follow his policys through the news media. Then feel free to praise or criticize him.

[ChronicTiger]

I have known Mr.Weinberg for many years. I am sure he would like to answer all of the questions posed on this thread. If he did, I am sure he would ofend
10 to 15 of the posters on this thread. Give him a chance and follow his policys through the news media. Then feel free to praise or criticize him.

In that kind of position you can not please everyone. If he is not here to answer questions and discuss issues.....What is he doing here?

:biggrin:

[CATS44]

When a person stands up to be counted, it is an absolute certainty that he will offend some. It comes with the territory of being a servant of the people.

If Mr Weinberg, or anybody else for that matter, does not want to stand up in the storm of the political forum, he shouldnt choose to hold a political office. After all, it is part of the job description.

Quite frankly, he had a chance to make his policies known when he was running. He chose not to. Why should we wait for the Independent to publicize his views? Why does he need to filter his policies thru the media?

If Mr Weinberg, who I am sure is a good man, refuses to state his opinions, the public can only go by what it sees. And what the public has seen so far is that upon Mr Weinbergs election, our Super immediately resigned....and after his installation, it didnt take long for the incoming Super to back out.

Maybe some, or all, of that is mere coincidence. Maybe not. But until Mr Weinberg speaks out with more than platitudes, it is all that the public has to go on. Admittedly, that is harsh. But politics is a harsh business, and his silence has put him in this situation.

[section3]

if marshall got elected in november, took office in january, and by may has single handedly made 2 supers resign, i sure hope i never get on his bad side. being the new guy on the board, by the time this all shakes out he may be the only one left standing.

[CATS44]

Please dont misunderstand.

In no way am I saying that Mr Weinberg is the cause of any of the problems we now face. He may in fact be a problem solver.

But when any public servant refuses to tell his/her constituency where he/she stands, the public can only go by what it sees.

There is a comfort level for people when they know where their elected officials stand on key issues. We dont have to agree with them, but we take comfort in knowing. It gives us a chance to stand with or against that official.

We knew where Barry Goldwater stood. We didnt have to agree with him, but we knew. We knew where Howard Metzenbaum stood. Again, we didnt have to agree with him, but we knew. The same with Reagan, the Kennedys, the Roosevelts, on down the line.

When it comes to our BOE, we always knew exactly where Dr Immel and Mrs Lightfoot stood. They were not afraid to express their views....and they were able to so in a way that showed us the logic they used to get to the position they stood in. Personally, I didnt always agree with Mrs Lighfoot, but when I listened to her explanations I often found myself thinking, "Geez. Her logic is better than mine."

I dont expect that any elected official is going to do the things I want them to do every time. All I want, all anybody can reasonably ask for, is for them to make a stand and then explain their reasoning.

Mr Slagle came on this forum several weeks ago to explain his reasoning for voting against a measure that seemed like a slam dunk to me. But he provided an angle that I would have never thought of. IMO his reason for his vote made sense. Im not sure I agreed that his reason outweighed other considerations, but I was very pleased to know that we have a councilman who thinks things thru from all angles and isnt afraid to stand on his principles, even if he has to stand alone.

I am a big proponent of Massillon joining the Federal League. I believe that my reasonings are sound. I have not yet been faced with a logical argument that makes me change my mind. I stand in a minority on this forum (LOL), which is okay by me. Since it is a question that has been debated in this town for nearly a decade, anybody who has a desire to be on the BOE knows that he/she may be faced with having to vote upon that vey question, and will take some heat no matter which way he/she votes.

I asked that specific question of Mr Weinberg on this very forum BEFORE he was elected. We have yet to recieve a specific answer. Its not just Mr Weinberg, though. Does anybody know how any of the BOE members would vote on Fed membership? I dont.

And I ask, How on earth is it possible that the public has absolutely no idea how its elected BOE would vote on a question that would have far ranging consequences for the most historic football program in the nation?

Because we dont ask, and then demand, answers as a requirement for our vote.

Mr Weinberg could have responded to that question. He could have answered by saying, 'No way, Jose, to the Fed'...and then put forth sound logic for his stance. It might have been something I had never given thought to. (Probably not LOL) But whether I agree or not, whether anybody agrees or not, is not the point.

The point is that at the very least, we know. Thats all I ask, and I dont feel that its an unreasonable request.

[Kamd50]

I would hope it would be so that the whole purpose of this project not get lost in all of this. Which, to my understanding, is supposed to be to provide the students of Massillon a greater and much needed opportunity to learn, achieve, and further their education that they otherwise may not have been afforded to many of them.

I sincerely hope that our students do not ultimately suffer due to the actions of some of the adults in this community who do not have the kid's academic and athletic interests at heart. That would truely be a very sad day.

[jayjay65]

I would hope it would be so that the whole purpose of this project not get lost in all of this. Which, to my understanding, is supposed to be to provide the students of Massillon a greater and much needed opportunity to learn, achieve, and further their education that they otherwise may not have been afforded to many of them.

I sincerely hope that our students do not ultimately suffer due to the actions of some of the adults in this community who do not have the kid's academic and athletic interests at heart. That would truely be a very sad day.

I can tell you unequivically that this is the last, last, LAST thing that the David Family would want to have happen. Too much time, money and effort have been invested so far for that to be wasted but this is obviously a critical juncture for the school system.

[shortbev]

that is the sad thing about too many situations like this...the "supposed" goal gets lost in the bull crap...political posturing...status seeking..."oh, look at me, i'm on the school board"..."i must be someone important"...and fingerpointing...as to whom is to blame for a situation...integrity and honesty is in short supply these days...

think of all the various situations of life...

family

job

community

far too often...it's all about ME...ME...ME...

why do you think there are so many family problems??? divorce...adultry...abuse...all about a person having their needs met at the expense of the others involved

think of the back stabbing that goes on within the workforce...climbing the corporate ladder over others...companies moving south of the border to make a few extra bucks...heck with the loyal workers who got you to this point

within our community...it is about status...people run for office, get put on a board of some affiliation...and never show up for any of the meetings...they promise the world...and achieve little of what was promised..."I'll change things if you elect me president / or to congress...next thing you know, they are too busy butt-kissing the movers and shakers to really get anything done...and those that try, are cruxified by those they come up against, or in the media...can you imagine what would get done in our city councils/ state government/ congress if people just did what was truly best and made sense??? rather than continually being concerned over the next election???


the kids and what they truly need gets lost in each situation...just as in this one...


we need to lock up all the parties involved within a room, and not let them out until they get stuff straightened out...whatever they are...do whatever may be needed for the good of the school system...

[ChronicTiger]

that is the sad thing about too many situations like this...the "supposed" goal gets lost in the bull crap...political posturing...status seeking..."oh, look at me, i'm on the school board"..."i must be someone important".....

Kind of how I felt when this BOE member made his first post. He would of done himself a better service by not posting at all.....Whats that they say about first impressions?

:cylon:

[sis2turftiger]

Please dont misunderstand.

In no way am I saying that Mr Weinberg is the cause of any of the problems we now face. He may in fact be a problem solver.

But when any public servant refuses to tell his/her constituency where he/she stands, the public can only go by what it sees.

There is a comfort level for people when they know where their elected officials stand on key issues. We dont have to agree with them, but we take comfort in knowing. It gives us a chance to stand with or against that official.

We knew where Barry Goldwater stood. We didnt have to agree with him, but we knew. We knew where Howard Metzenbaum stood. Again, we didnt have to agree with him, but we knew. The same with Reagan, the Kennedys, the Roosevelts, on down the line.

When it comes to our BOE, we always knew exactly where Dr Immel and Mrs Lightfoot stood. They were not afraid to express their views....and they were able to so in a way that showed us the logic they used to get to the position they stood in. Personally, I didnt always agree with Mrs Lighfoot, but when I listened to her explanations I often found myself thinking, "Geez. Her logic is better than mine."

I dont expect that any elected official is going to do the things I want them to do every time. All I want, all anybody can reasonably ask for, is for them to make a stand and then explain their reasoning.

Mr Slagle came on this forum several weeks ago to explain his reasoning for voting against a measure that seemed like a slam dunk to me. But he provided an angle that I would have never thought of. IMO his reason for his vote made sense. Im not sure I agreed that his reason outweighed other considerations, but I was very pleased to know that we have a councilman who thinks things thru from all angles and isnt afraid to stand on his principles, even if he has to stand alone.

I am a big proponent of Massillon joining the Federal League. I believe that my reasonings are sound. I have not yet been faced with a logical argument that makes me change my mind. I stand in a minority on this forum (LOL), which is okay by me. Since it is a question that has been debated in this town for nearly a decade, anybody who has a desire to be on the BOE knows that he/she may be faced with having to vote upon that vey question, and will take some heat no matter which way he/she votes.

I asked that specific question of Mr Weinberg on this very forum BEFORE he was elected. We have yet to recieve a specific answer. Its not just Mr Weinberg, though. Does anybody know how any of the BOE members would vote on Fed membership? I dont.

And I ask, How on earth is it possible that the public has absolutely no idea how its elected BOE would vote on a question that would have far ranging consequences for the most historic football program in the nation?

Because we dont ask, and then demand, answers as a requirement for our vote.

Mr Weinberg could have responded to that question. He could have answered by saying, 'No way, Jose, to the Fed'...and then put forth sound logic for his stance. It might have been something I had never given thought to. (Probably not LOL) But whether I agree or not, whether anybody agrees or not, is not the point.

The point is that at the very least, we know. Thats all I ask, and I dont feel that its an unreasonable request.

Well said, CATS!

[sis2turftiger]

I would hope it would be so that the whole purpose of this project not get lost in all of this. Which, to my understanding, is supposed to be to provide the students of Massillon a greater and much needed opportunity to learn, achieve, and further their education that they otherwise may not have been afforded to many of them.

I sincerely hope that our students do not ultimately suffer due to the actions of some of the adults in this community who do not have the kid's academic and athletic interests at heart. That would truely be a very sad day.

KamD, I couldn't agree more. I said it before, until the adults can play nice, the kids will suffer. Now, if we could get those involved to follow the rationale that everything the BOE & MCS does is FOR THE KIDS, we'd be in better shape!

[chap]

I'll bet it's more along the lines of.....................

"If nominated, I will not accept; if drafted, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve !"

:biggrin:Geez! Your Really Safe! lol

[5starred]

Did not read every post so if I repeat please forgive.
Someone asked a couple people what would they do, as far as pulling the plug on the locker room. Let me offer this side to the mix.
Many years ago a tax system was put into place to run the schools, as well as a way to pick teachers, admin., and a board to run said systems. Then one day a small group of people wanted to make things better so they got together and called themselves Booster Clubs. And guild lines were put into place as not to step on each on each others toes. And not mix private and public fund.
The booster clubs pick up where the public falls short. And all has lived happily for many many years.
Then came along the David Foundation with a DREAM project, and a great one at that! Such generosity no one has ever witnessed in our home town. In this major undertaking is a new locker room for our team, state of the art, better than many colleges .
Now comes the confusion, Mr. David, a very savvy business man who gets thing done NOW with no red tape that government must go thru now has to deal with a board, and administrators who know the government way.
Through in the mix, petty politics and what to you have............................What can the David foundation do to get everyones attention, yes thats right....shut-er-down.
Is it right? NO, Did it get everyones attention? OH HELL YES! But the time has come to put all the games behind and do whats right for the kids
Mr. David is used to being in charge, its his family's foundation, and a more than great project which we owe him much THANKS for.
Yes there is a but coming.......But, the time for power plays is not now, on either side . We are now at the point that the only people that will get hurt out of this is the kids, then kids who don't have a damn thing to do with this mess.
Jeff David wanted to come to Massillon and build a dream project. May I suggest he do just that. He knew coming into this he would be dealing with many different people and policies which he is not used to. That happens when you mix elected with non-elected, and I would have thought he knew what he was in for.
The question has to be at this point, is he in this for the good of the system or for power?

[jayjay65]

Did not read every post so if I repeat please forgive.
Someone asked a couple people what would they do, as far as pulling the plug on the locker room. Let me offer this side to the mix.
Many years ago a tax system was put into place to run the schools, as well as a way to pick teachers, admin., and a board to run said systems. Then one day a small group of people wanted to make things better so they got together and called themselves Booster Clubs. And guild lines were put into place as not to step on each on each others toes. And not mix private and public fund.
The booster clubs pick up where the public falls short. And all has lived happily for many many years.
Then came along the David Foundation with a DREAM project, and a great one at that! Such generosity no one has ever witnessed in our home town. In this major undertaking is a new locker room for our team, state of the art, better than many colleges .
Now comes the confusion, Mr. David, a very savvy business man who gets thing done NOW with no red tape that government must go thru now has to deal with a board, and administrators who know the government way.
Through in the mix, petty politics and what to you have............................What can the David foundation do to get everyones attention, yes thats right....shut-er-down.
Is it right? NO, Did it get everyones attention? OH HELL YES! But the time has come to put all the games behind and do whats right for the kids
Mr. David is used to being in charge, its his family's foundation, and a more than great project which we owe him much THANKS for.
Yes there is a but coming.......But, the time for power plays is not now, on either side . We are now at the point that the only people that will get hurt out of this is the kids, then kids who don't have a damn thing to do with this mess.
Jeff David wanted to come to Massillon and build a dream project. May I suggest he do just that. He knew coming into this he would be dealing with many different people and policies which he is not used to. That happens when you mix elected with non-elected, and I would have thought he knew what he was in for.
The question has to be at this point, is he in this for the good of the system or for power?

I think you bring up some very interesting points but I ask you this. If you were presented RIGHT NOW with the chance to vote on a new school levy for programs for the kids how would you vote? If you voted 'no' for the levy (which I suspect many of you would) would it be because you wanted power? No, it would be because the school system is in a significant state of flux and no one is really sure what was going on let alone how it will all shake out. So before a taxpayer would say 'yes' they'd want some assurances that their hard earned money was going to be handled properly and spent on the resources it was intended to be spent on and the leadership was in place to execute the program that was presented to the voters. That would be a very fair and prudent course of action wouldn't it? So...why doesn't that apply to the David Foundation under a similar scenario?

[5starred]

I have indeed voted for MOST levys. I am sure not many can say that. And I will still do so because its not about the board or the power, its about the kids as well as what is needed for their education.
Think back........ To the 70's and 80's..........needed new high school, how many times did it take until the levy for the new school passed? Each time they came back at us the millage was higher.
What logic finally passed that levy ? What wisdom ? What power ? What magic ?
WE BEAT MCK before the election.
So the Board and David Foundation can jockey for power and position all they want......
WE ARE MASSILLON and will raise above the bull and play the game to win.
We are the Champions, if we need to start the season with no locker room so be it the kids are tougher than we can imagine.
In the long run whos going to lose out?

[CarlE]

In the long run whos going to lose out?

The students of the Massillon School System. In more ways than you can EVER imagine. At the end of the day, it's not about locker rooms at all now, is it?

[sis2turftiger]

The students of the Massillon School System. In more ways than you can EVER imagine. At the end of the day, it's not about locker rooms at all now, is it?

:iagree: 'nuff said.

[5starred]

THANK YOU, carle

[MassillonMom]

I heard through the grapevine that the s**t will hit the fan in three weeks-just about the time when the current school year is over.

I wonder how many students will be pulled from our school system?


How many more homes will be for sale in Massillon?

This will be horrendous.:mad:

[TigerBuckeye313]

I heard through the grapevine that the s**t will hit the fan in three weeks-just about the time when the current school year is over.

I wonder how many students will be pulled from our school system?


How many more homes will be for sale in Massillon?

This will be horrendous.:mad:

Would you like to elaborate on this point?

[CATS44]

I dont care about residency...and I dont put much stock in test scores, which are directly tied to family income.

For those who think that Massillon doesnt compete well in test scores....Smith is consistently one of the top four or five grade schools in the County in test scores....and Whittier is pretty good, too. They can compete with any school in Jackson or North Canton.

So by standard thinking the staff at Smith is doing very well, while the staff at Emerson sucks, because thats what the test scores indicate. But I have news for you. If yo took the entire staff at Smith, from the Principal to the janitor, and moved them to Emerson...and put the Emerson staff at Smith...

The test scores wouldnt change one iota at either school.

Evaluating schools by standardize test score is one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on school systems.

[TigerCoach]

I dont care about residency...and I dont put much stock in test scores, which are directly tied to family income.

For those who think that Massillon doesnt compete well in test scores....Smith is consistently one of the top four or five grade schools in the County in test scores....and Whittier is pretty good, too. They can compete with any school in Jackson or North Canton.

So by standard thinking the staff at Smith is doing very well, while the staff at Emerson sucks, because thats what the test scores indicate. But I have news for you. If yo took the entire staff at Smith, from the Principal to the janitor, and moved them to Emerson...and put the Emerson staff at Smith...

The test scores wouldnt change one iota at either school.

Evaluating schools by standardize test score is one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on school systems.

CATS,

We could drain a lot of beers debating this correlation between family income and test scores. :drinkem:I don't know if I agree with that. I know many kids who grew up in what is considered a poor family environment and do very well in school.

I think there is a more direct correlation between parenting skills (especially 2-parent homes) and test scores. Unfortunately, those lower income homes are typically below par in parenting skills.

Thus, the question becomes......Which came first, the low income family or the bad parenting skills?

[CATS44]

TC: Of course there are kids from low income families that do well, as there are kids from upper income families that do poorly.

But if we put 1000 units of metro housing in Jackson, their test scores would drop like proverbial rocks.

Another thing to consider is that upper middle class families usually have parents with college backgrounds....and college preparation is ingrained from kindergarten up. Testing is centered more on college prep than on votech.

While you are correct that there are a lot of factors involved, in all the data I have been able to find...and Ive been looking at it for years...the single most important factor is family income, overwhelmingly so.

Somebody above mentioned possible flight from the MCS after the school year finishes. This makes DREAM of even more importance, because when DREAM gets up and running, parents will be lining their kids up to transfer into Massillon. Part of DREAMs intent is job training. Part of the reason that a hospital would get involved is to create a pool of future job applicants with the training that fits the hopsitals personnel requirements.

With an aging society, there is going to be a huge need for personnel trained in the medical field. A kid coming out of HS today who has no plans on going to college has almost no job opportunities outside of part time low wage positions with no medical coverage. They come off of their parents medical coverage when they hit nineteen.

DREAM will change that for kids who are willing to put in the effort. It will be a bonanza for the area in terms of new jobs, because new jobs often follow a trained work force.

My hope is that everybody puts aside their petty differences and pulls together to make DREAM a reality, because its not only about educating our kids, its also about bringing in new jobs.

[5starred]

Massillonmom, a little less drama please.
The masses will not rush the doors to exit the system.

[xtiger]

Kind of how I felt when this BOE member made his first post. He would of done himself a better service by not posting at all.....Whats that they say about first impressions?

:cylon:

I think he's doing a fine job.....and he's the ONLY one with the
coconuts to come on here. :pimp:

[TigerCoach]

CATS, What if we gave the low-income families subsidies? Would that make their children smarter all of a sudden? I don't disagree that the low income families have lower test scores, but I don't agree that the income level is the root cause of it.

I think underachievers (aka losers) will be underachievers (aka losers) in everything they do for the rest of their lives, including parenting. It's a vicious circle that is hard to stop. But if you have 2 underachievers who are parents together and emphasize education to their children at an early age, that circle can be broken.

Part of the solution to improving childrens' education levels is to also educate the parents who are raising them. Marshall Weinberg has spoken of this in the past as well, which is one reason I endorse him being on the school board.

[Kamd50]

And how would you go about educating these parents? It sounds all good, but the reality of the situation is quite different. Having a family member who teaches and has to work with these parents on a daily basis, I can tell you there is so much complexity and resistance from these families that it is unimaginable to most of us.

Hell, many of them don't even take responsibility to get their children to school on time. The amount of absences for some children is astonishing to me.

Just to get a hold of a parent or caregiver of a child to discuss something is a real feat in and of itself. And then, if that actually occurs, it is unbelievable how hard it is to get through to a lot of them. Most of them come up with all kinds of excuses, first for their own lack of involvement in their children's lives, and then excuses for why there is a problem, INSTEAD of being concerned that there is a problem, grateful to the teacher for wanting to help the child and wanting to know what they can do to help in order to correct the problem.

It is truely an uphill battle every single day for these teachers, yet they are devoted and don't give up and love these children. In some cases, probably more than their own caregivers do. Certainly, they give them much more attention and care than what some of them get at home. Sadly, I exaggerate not. Reporting situations to different authorities concerning their students, is almost a regular daily occurence.

Another big problem with a lot of these caregivers/parents is that when it is suggested to them that a young child may benefit from repeating a grade, they balk at the idea and just want to move the child on. A teacher cannot hold a child back if the parents do not consent to it; something else that I didn't know. When it was suggested to one mother that her child would probably really struggle if sent onto the next grade and that it would be beneficial to repeat this year, mom says "well my parents said that I was slow and I turned out ok" :wall: (by the way, not really). So, with no other recourse on the teacher's behalf, this child will move on and undoubtedly fall way behind the other students because of the ignorance of mom. And then mom will probably complain when report cards come out and blame it on the teacher.

My Lord, I could go on and on about all of the idiotic and flat out stupidity that these teachers have to deal with on a daily basis. It breaks your heart to know that there are so many young children who almost don't even have a chance from the getgo because of their environment. A solution? Idk, how do you MAKE somebody care about the education of their children when they are too lazy to get out of bed and get them off to school on time, or send them to school with dirty clothes, or make up excuses not to meet with the teachers, or blame the teachers if their is a problem instead of themselves, or are out doing God knows what instead of giving their children the love and attention they need in order to thrive and grow????

[ChronicTiger]

I think he's doing a fine job.....and he's the ONLY one with the
coconuts to come on here. :pimp:

It doesnt take coconuts to come on here but it DOES take them to come on here and talk about what you stand for..........Again I'll ask, If he isnt going to talk about his position on any of the topics that the system is facing...what is he doing here? Wait a minute.....he isnt here! 10 post of nothing but hot air.....

:thumbsup:

[TigerCoach]

KamD50, I've always said that you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. I can't stand being around people, like those you describe, who have what I call the "welfare mentality". Everything is someone else's fault and the school/government should do something because their child isn't like what they are telling them. I also hate it when parents put blame on some liberal made-up diagnosis like "opposition disorder" and all the other BS diagnosis they make up. Just look back at statistics and compare the number of these "liberal diagnosis" now compared to 40 years ago.

Adult education involves many various subjects. There is an adult education center in downtown Massillon (the old Post Office, old Board of Education) that deals with reading, writing and rithmatic situations. There should also be parenting classes available, and I'm sure there are somewhere, in Massillon. Most of these situations you describe, I would bet, are coming from broken homes and 1-parent situations. Even so, I've seen some 2-parent homes where the parents don't have the skills needed to raise their kids either. I also firmly believe that families need to go to church regularly, have dinner together, and talk together. I've said it before, teaching kids to make good decisions and understand the possible consequences of their actions is a major priority for me. As to how that is implemented, that's a tough question, but it all starts with the family. Church, Family, School.

It does sound like a simplified solution, but again, you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. Those people will always be stuck in that vicious circle of being a loser.

[Kamd50]

TC, the really heart breaking part of this is that the parents/caregivers don't want the kind of help in regards to their own educating on how to raise their children to be happy, successful individuals. But they sure do want and take monetary "help". But it is their children who do not have a say in the matter and suffer the long term consequences of the environment they are brought up in through no fault of their own. So I do not like to call them "losers" as much as I consider them to be victims.

Yes there are parenting classes. I know of someone who made her daughter attend them just real recently here since she just gave birth a few months ago. Well, to make a long story short, the new mommy attended classes, befriended another new mommy who talked her into trying a new activity, aka shoplifting, got caught and had to go to jail for nine days leaving granny fully responsible 24/7 during that time period to attend to the baby:doh:

[LLRose]

TC: Of course there are kids from low income families that do well, as there are kids from upper income families that do poorly.

But if we put 1000 units of metro housing in Jackson, their test scores would drop like proverbial rocks.

Another thing to consider is that upper middle class families usually have parents with college backgrounds....and college preparation is ingrained from kindergarten up. Testing is centered more on college prep than on votech.

While you are correct that there are a lot of factors involved, in all the data I have been able to find...and Ive been looking at it for years...the single most important factor is family income, overwhelmingly so.

Somebody above mentioned possible flight from the MCS after the school year finishes. This makes DREAM of even more importance, because when DREAM gets up and running, parents will be lining their kids up to transfer into Massillon. Part of DREAMs intent is job training. Part of the reason that a hospital would get involved is to create a pool of future job applicants with the training that fits the hopsitals personnel requirements.

With an aging society, there is going to be a huge need for personnel trained in the medical field. A kid coming out of HS today who has no plans on going to college has almost no job opportunities outside of part time low wage positions with no medical coverage. They come off of their parents medical coverage when they hit nineteen.

DREAM will change that for kids who are willing to put in the effort. It will be a bonanza for the area in terms of new jobs, because new jobs often follow a trained work force.

My hope is that everybody puts aside their petty differences and pulls together to make DREAM a reality, because its not only about educating our kids, its also about bringing in new jobs.

Family income is a "macro" category for analysis. Actually it is the problem we face today with education funding. The government throws money at lower income districts expecting a change.

The factors that result in lower incomes are the most appropriate reasons for the correlation to low test scores then family income. Children from lower income families can produce higher test scores if their parent or parents create an environment conducive to learning. Accountability, nurturing, structure, involvement, so on and so on. Higher income families that provide accountability, nurturing, structure, involvement, so on and so on will most like have children with higher test scores, if they do not provide the environment conducive to learning they will be lower. If parent/parents give a damn, test scores will follow, if they don't give a damn, they won't.

Utilizing Family Income as the rational for a correlation to low test scores is far to broad and why our education systems continues to fail after throwing billions of dollars at a problem that can only be fixed at the home with parent/parents that create the environment for learning.

[xtiger]

It doesnt take coconuts to come on here but it DOES take them to come on here and talk about what you stand for..........Again I'll ask, If he isnt going to talk about his position on any of the topics that the system is facing...what is he doing here? Wait a minute.....he isnt here! 10 post of nothing but hot air.....

:thumbsup:

He has just as much right being on MP as you do! Whats your %$#@
beef??

If you want to know his position, call him. Go to a board meeting and
chat with him afterwards or Send him a private message.:doh:

[ChronicTiger]

He has just as much right being on MP as you do! Whats your %$#@
beef??

If you want to know his position, call him. Go to a board meeting and
chat with him afterwards or Send him a private message.:doh:

The real question is where is he? He rolled out the red carpet for himself here on MP and talked about updates. Well, there has not been any update, no answering of questions, and no sign of this person. What would be nice is if he came back to the thread he himself started and answered the questions laid out for him.

Oh, I know he has every right to be here on MP...the question again is...WHERE is he?

Whats your %$#@
beef??


Classy.......

[Banks]

I said this months ago but here it goes again.

Don't hold your breath waiting for posts from him, he simply used the people and this forum to help get elected. Five post from Oct 31,2007 to May 7th 2008.

[xtiger]

The real question is where is he? He rolled out the red carpet for himself here on MP and talked about updates. Well, there has not been any update, no answering of questions, and no sign of this person. What would be nice is if he came back to the thread he himself started and answered the questions laid out for him.

Oh, I know he has every right to be here on MP...the question again is...WHERE is he?



Classy.......

Thanks!

[CATS44]

Utilizing Family Income as the rational for a correlation to low test scores is far to broad and why our education systems continues to fail after throwing billions of dollars at a problem that can only be fixed at the home with parent/parents that create the environment for learning.

Using test scores to grade school districts is an even more broad rationale.

But we agree that the problem does not lie with the schools.

Grading school districts by test scores actually hinders education. Instead of educating kids, the schools are now spending an inordinant amount of time training kids to take tests, which doesnt teach tham anything but how to take a test.

[CATS44]

xtiger: Are you saying that Mr Weinberg is only willing to state his positions in private?

Why is that?

[massillon catholic]

Utilizing Family Income as the rational for a correlation to low test scores is far to broad and why our education systems continues to fail after throwing billions of dollars at a problem that can only be fixed at the home with parent/parents that create the environment for learning.

Using test scores to grade school districts is an even more broad rationale.

But we agree that the problem does not lie with the schools.

Grading school districts by test scores actually hinders education. Instead of educating kids, the schools are now spending an inordinant amount of time training kids to take tests, which doesnt teach tham anything but how to take a test.

Maybe some kids/people are just DUMB!! No amount of money can make a dumb kid/person smart.

[xtiger]

xtiger: Are you saying that Mr Weinberg is only willing to state his positions in private?

Why is that?

Not at all! Some knuckleheads in here expect way too much information
that is not privy to the public. If you have questions or have concerns
there are ways to approach him.

Do you have an ax to grind?

[DAWGH8R]

Mr Weinberg has/is/always will do the best he can for Massillon. Believe me, he has all of our best interests as his number 1 prioraty.

His service to the city and it's people is unquestionable ! :iagree:

[Red50Go]

Not at all! Some knuckleheads in here expect way too much information
that is not privy to the public. If you have questions or have concerns
there are ways to approach him.

Do you have an ax to grind?

"Not privy to the public." There it (our attitude) is in a nutshell. I mean, who do we think we are? I am not putting this all on MW but our family has been here since 1930 and I have NEVER seen such secrecy and non-open communcation in a BOE as in recent years. The media is even starting to agree. This is going to kill us come levy time.

Those were pretty general, philosophical questions that ANY of us have and do opine on all the time. Not privileged info. MW might be a great guy but I have to admit was hoping for something different for a change since HE came to US. Support him all you want but I will lump him in w/ every other "politician" on the school board til I know otherwise. And heck no I wont call him. Please. I dont care what he says to me. Been there done that. I care what he says to all of us.

[DAWGH8R]

From today's Inde.....................

The most common violations the commission sees surround conflicts of interest.
Ohio Ethics Law prohibits public officials from authorizing the employment of a family members or using their authority to influence the hiring of a family member.
“What the Ethics Law is trying to do is ensure that when it comes to public positions, there is and should be fair competition for these jobs,” Freel said

Does this sound familiar ??

[CATS44]

Trust me. Im not going to give you any idea where I stand on any of the situations facing the MCS, but Im a good guy, so vote for me.

If you go along with that, you are buying a pig in a poke....which is what we have been buying for decades with the BOE.

And by doing that we now have a sty.

[Tiger54]

I heard through the grapevine that the s**t will hit the fan in three weeks-just about the time when the current school year is over.

I wonder how many students will be pulled from our school system?


How many more homes will be for sale in Massillon?

This will be horrendous.:mad:
Gee, what is magical about 3 weeks? Is there something significant about that time frame?

[Grandma Tiger]

Gee, what is magical about 3 weeks? Is there something significant about that time frame?

Timing is everything young man!

[austinsm11]

I do think the Super needs to live in the district. If it takes a community to raise a child, then what does it say that the Super isn't even in that community?

I'm not saying this just about Massillon's situation. This should be every school district.

I believe it is actually a requirement down here that the Super must live in the district.