2002 Tigers vs Warren

[mtigers96]

I seen on anther thread that Warren has 4 or 5 players from the 2002 team in the NFL draft this year. I was thinking about that year and they were good, they beat us, but man I would love to have our team from 2002 back this year they had some great talent on that team and YES we should have beat Warren both times and went to state, even with all that NFL draft talent. I dont care what anyone says we SHOULD have beat them.

[Mass311]

I seen on anther thread that Warren has 4 or 5 players from the 2002 team in the NFL draft this year. I was thinking about that year and they were good, they beat us, but man I would love to have our team from 2002 back this year they had some great talent on that team and YES we should have beat Warren both times and went to state, even with all that NFL draft talent. I dont care what anyone says we SHOULD have beat them.

I was so tired of hearing that "Mario, Mario, Mario" chant by the end of that game.

[mtownwr22]

how about OMARRRRRRR OMARRRRRRRRRR!!!! I couldve killed there ridiculous announcer

[Submariner]

2002 Raiders should not have trailed the Tigers that game, we felt we had the talent then and the coaching to match. But, the Tigers bring their best when they travel to Warren. It is always a nail biter--except last season! We owe you one of those.

I have to watch out though...... keep your fingers crossed, I may be moving in your direction---Tuscarawas County, Dover? My son Zack is starting to play football--a speed demon. That would make headline news, a Tiger player formerly from Warren............

[DAWGH8R]

That game was an EMOTIONAL Roller Coaster. It was a shame to lose a game that we clearly had COMPLETE control of. One of my worst Tiger memories , by far.

The Massillon Tigers Football Team of 2002 was a very special group of guys. I wish they could have had the opportunity to play Elder in the State Title game.

http://www.marshallweinberg.com/images/tiger.jpg

[TIGER27]

Hey Crable is gonna be a pick and if things wouldn't have turned out so unlucky for Devin Jordan you never know. If Zwick would have gone anywhere but Ohio State behind future heisman winner he would have gotten drafted. Andy Alleman plays in the pros.

[DAWGH8R]

Keep in mind though, that Zwick didn't play on the '02 Tigers. That was Matt Martin's team ! :wink:

Regardless, would have liked to have seen Zwick & Crable do a role reversal.

Justin would have been a HUGE star at Michigan under the 'drop-back' style offense they run. Michigan is very astute at putting QB's in the NFL.

OTOH, Ohio State has had a few linebackers play on Sunday's also !!:no1:

[proud to be]

Keep in mind though, that Zwick didn't play on the '02 Tigers. That was Matt Martin's team ! :wink:

Regardless, would have liked to have seen Zwick & Crable do a role reversal.

Justin would have been a HUGE star at Michigan under the 'drop-back' style offense they run. Michigan is very astute at putting QB's in the NFL.OTOH, Ohio State has had a few linebackers play on Sunday's also !!:no1:

They may have put a few QB's in the NFL.....

BUT....

Other than Brady, name another Michigan QB in the last 20 years who has had a great career in the NFL

Let me help you

Elvis Grbac Most successful other than Brady 99 TDs over 10 years, peaked at 28 for a season high

Brian Griese Journeyman
John Navarre FLOP out of the league
Drew Henson FLOP out of the league
Todd Collins 22 TD passes in 12 years (Had a renaissance last year, JURY STILL OUT)

In fact NO michigan QB had ever thrown a TD pass in the NFL until Jim Harbaugh in 1988!!!!!!!!!


1988!!!!!


Hardly an endorsement for a long lineage of Michigan QB's!!!

I guess if the only standard is getting drafted, without having to be successful, .... OK...

The only reason I bring this up is because I actually was reading on ESPN.com where someone wanted to dub scUM the new Quarterback U

What a freaking joke

Tom Brady is quite possibly the best player, at that position, in the game.

But that is not enough to build a case over time....

[DAWGH8R]

Getting drafted high is a HUGE cash opportunity !! The Michigan offense that was in place , was a good preview for an NFL QB . I'm sure none of the UM alum QB's that were drafted, have any regrets !!

[DAWGH8R]

Brian Griese Journeyman
John Navarre FLOP out of the league
Drew Henson FLOP out of the league
Todd Collins 22 TD passes in 12 years (Had a renaissance last year, JURY STILL OUT)

I guess if the only standard is getting drafted, without having to be successful, .... OK...

Tom Brady is quite possibly the best player, at that position, in the game.



Jim Harbaugh -----------drafted 1987
Elvis Grbac -------------drafted 1993
Todd Collins ------------drafted 1995
Brian Griese -------------drafted 1998
Tom Brady --------------drafted 2000
John Navarre ----------drafted 2004
Drew Henson ----------drafted 2004 ( took 2 years off to play baseball)
Chad Henne ------------drafted 2008

REALLY glad you prompted me to look into this !!! Since 1984, only 2 of Michigan's QB's weren't drafted !! WOW !!

Demetrius Brown/Michael Taylor 1987, 1988 (Alternated at the starting position.)

Here is the QB rotation since 1984. Maybe you should rethink your stance !!

Here's the starting QB chronology for U of M since 1984:

Jim Harbaugh-Chris Zurbrugg 1984 (Zurbrugg started 2nd half of season after Harbaugh broke his arm against MSU. Season record was 6-6, Michigan's last non-winning record for a season, and Bo's only non-winning record at U-M.)

Jim Harbaugh 1985-1986

Demetrius Brown/Michael Taylor 1987, 1988 (Alternated at the starting position.)


Elvis Grbac 1989-1992

Todd Collins 1993-1994

Brian Griese/Scott Dreisbach 1995-1997 (Griese and Dreisbach alternated as starter in 1995 and 1996; Dreisbach mostly a backup in 1997.)


Tom Brady 1998-1999 (Drew Henson played some quarters, e.g., Syracuse 98, but did not start.)


Drew Henson/John Navarre 2000 (Navarre started when Henson was hurt)


John Navarrre 2001-2003

(Matt Gutierrez played for U of M from 2003-2005 but didn't play much, partly due to injuries. He transferred to 1AA Idaho State for his senior year.)

Chad Henne 2004-2007 (Started his freshman year because of an injury to Matt Gutierrez. Never gave up the starting job, except for when injured.)

This list is NOW more impressive than I thought !!!!

[proud to be]

Jim Harbaugh -----------drafted 1987
Elvis Grbac -------------drafted 1993
Todd Collins ------------drafted 1995
Brian Griese -------------drafted 1998
Tom Brady --------------drafted 2000
John Navarre ----------drafted 2004
Drew Henson ----------drafted 2004 ( took 2 years off to play baseball)
Chad Henne ------------drafted 2008

REALLY glad you prompted me to look into this !!! Since 1984, only 2 of Michigan's QB's weren't drafted !! WOW !!

Demetrius Brown/Michael Taylor 1987, 1988 (Alternated at the starting position.)

Here is the QB rotation since 1984. Maybe you should rethink your stance !!

Here's the starting QB chronology for U of M since 1984:

Jim Harbaugh-Chris Zurbrugg 1984 (Zurbrugg started 2nd half of season after Harbaugh broke his arm against MSU. Season record was 6-6, Michigan's last non-winning record for a season, and Bo's only non-winning record at U-M.)

Jim Harbaugh 1985-1986

Demetrius Brown/Michael Taylor 1987, 1988 (Alternated at the starting position.)


Elvis Grbac 1990-1992

Todd Collins 1993-1994

Brian Griese/Scott Dreisbach 1995-1997 (Griese and Dreisbach alternated as starter in 1995 and 1996; Dreisbach mostly a backup in 1997.)


Tom Brady 1998-1999 (Drew Henson played some quarters, e.g., Syracuse 98, but did not start.)


Drew Henson/John Navarre 2000 (Navarre started when Henson was hurt)


John Navarrre 2001-2003

(Matt Gutierrez played for U of M from 2003-2005 but didn't play much, partly due to injuries. He transferred to 1AA Idaho State for his senior year.)

Chad Henne 2004-2007 (Started his freshman year because of an injury to Matt Gutierrez. Never gave up the starting job, except for when injured.)

This list is NOW more impressive than I thought !!!!


As far as I'm concerned, it shows what a failure scUM has been in preparing QB's for the NFL, and what a manufactured stat this has become. Totally blurred by the success of TOM BRADY who was drafted lower than a lot of these guys...... If you take him away, we're not having this conversation.

Hell, tiny Marshall has sent more successful QB's to the NFL in the last 15 years than scUM.
As I said, if the only goal is to get drafted, and not actually accomplish anything in the NFL, they are doing great!!!

The fact that NO scUM QB threw a TD pass until 1988 is laughable.

Take a hard look at your list, and tell me one QB other than Brady that you would have on Pittsburgh now as a BACKUP!!!!!

Maybe Grbac, and he had about a 3 year window of effectiveness. Your list, IMO, proves only that scUM got them drafted, but proved to be overrated in actually preparing them for the next level.

One great QB does not a QB factory make!!!!! You proved it when you pointed out that they alternated Brady and Driesbach for two years, never giving Brady the starting job!!! Now that's talent evaluation!!!!!!!! Driesbach over Brady??? And you want to credit scUM with being QB U???

OVERRATED!!!

[austinsm11]

I'm more impressed that they played without a qb in 1989.

[DAWGH8R]

I'm not arguing the effectiveness of any of these QB's at the pro level. I am saying that they get these kids into the NFL.

I would have liked Zwick to have had a better 'look' than he received.

Once the TD pass was dropped by the TE ( Hamby) ??, in the Texas game, JZ's career was in trouble. If Smith isn't on the bench waiting, or if the TD pass is caught, JZ's future would have been WAY different.

I'm a die-hard Buckeyes fan, but you can't ignore the fact that these UM QB's are getting drafted.

PS. Elvis was the QB in 1989. I edited the original stats !

[austinsm11]

Once the TD pass was dropped by the TE ( Hamby) ??, in the Texas game, JZ's career was in trouble. If Smith isn't on the bench waiting, or if the TD pass is caught, JZ's future would have been WAY different.



I agree. Isn't it crazy how one little moment in time can COMPLETELY change everything in a person's life.

[DAWGH8R]

Totally blurred by the success of TOM BRADY who was drafted lower than a lot of these guys...... If you take him away, we're not having this conversation.

YES WE ARE !!

As I said, if the only goal is to get drafted, and not actually accomplish anything in the NFL, they are doing great!!!

THEY ARE DOING GREAT !!


One great QB does not a QB factory make!!!!! You proved it when you pointed out that they alternated Brady and Driesbach for two years, never giving Brady the starting job!!! Now that's talent evaluation!!!!!!!! Driesbach over Brady???

It was GRIESE & DRIESBACH !!

That is like arguing the success of linebackers after they leave PSU.

Michigan has no control over their ( QB's), future once they leave. Do we at Massillon critique a kids performance at college after he leaves Massillon ?? NO ! We are just glad he was able to make it to the next level !! I'm sure the same applies at College !!

[austinsm11]

PS. Elvis was the QB in 1989. I edited the original stats !

Actually, I think it was mostly Taylor.

[warren1st]

They may have put a few QB's in the NFL.....

BUT....

Other than Brady, name another Michigan QB in the last 20 years who has had a great career in the NFL

Let me help you

Elvis Grbac Most successful other than Brady 99 TDs over 10 years, peaked at 28 for a season high

Brian Griese Journeyman
John Navarre FLOP out of the league
Drew Henson FLOP out of the league
Todd Collins 22 TD passes in 12 years (Had a renaissance last year, JURY STILL OUT)

In fact NO michigan QB had ever thrown a TD pass in the NFL until Jim Harbaugh in 1988!!!!!!!!!


1988!!!!!


Hardly an endorsement for a long lineage of Michigan QB's!!!

I guess if the only standard is getting drafted, without having to be successful, .... OK...

The only reason I bring this up is because I actually was reading on ESPN.com where someone wanted to dub scUM the new Quarterback U

What a freaking joke

Tom Brady is quite possibly the best player, at that position, in the game.

But that is not enough to build a case over time....

.....and Ohio State's QB have done what in the same time frame????

[warren1st]

1989Starting Lineups Offense Position Player
split end Greg McMurtry (12)
left tackle Tom Dohring (12)
left guard Dean Dingman (10)
Matt Elliott (2)
center Steve Everitt (12)
right guard Matt Elliott (9)
Joe Cocozzo (2)
Marc Ramirez
right tackle Greg Skrepenak (12)
tight end Derrick Walker (12)
flanker Chris Calloway (12)
quarterback
Michael Taylor (8)
Elvis Grbac (4)
tailback Tony Boles (9)
Leroy Hoard (3)
fullback Jarrod Bunch (5)
Leroy Hoard (5)
Burnie Legette (2)

[Smitty]

I seen on anther thread that Warren has 4 or 5 players from the 2002 team in the NFL draft this year....


Besides Mario, ... who??

[warren1st]

Smitty - Antuan Molden, Anthony Hoke and the 2 QBs Mike Kokal and Mike Phillips.

[ChronicTiger]

Massillon should have won that game 10-7 in regulation......

[warren1st]

Massillon should have won that game 10-7 in regulation......
I know that one hurt but we've been there many times and done that!

[ChronicTiger]

I know that one hurt but we've been there many times and done that!

Mario was great that night.....he also wrecked my buzz at Warren when he took it to the house in OT his senior year......TOUCHDOWN BUZZZZKILLLLLLLERRRRRRSSSSSSSS!!!!

yea, that was a LONG ride home........

:doh:

[LakeCountyTiger]

Smitty - Antuan Molden, Anthony Hoke and the 2 QBs Mike Kokal and Mike Phillips.

You sure about Molden? I could have sworn I watched him play for Glenville a couple times, and different years like maybe as a soph. and senior. Or maybe it's another Molden but it seemed like his name was Antwaun.. I dunno maybe I'm wrong, I've seen so many football players in the last 2 decades I might be confusing them...I did watch Greg Kokal play at St. Joe and Kent State, of course that's Mike's dad...

[LakeCountyTiger]

OK, found out he transfered to Glenville. I'm going to post something off the browns website leading up to the draft... Not sure how I would take this, the part where he transfered to Glenville to compete against the best.. God I hope they meant in track and not football against the Senate league.

For Browns fans, Molden has the added allure of deep northern Ohio roots. Starting his high school career at Warren Harding, Molden then transferred to Cleveland Glenville to compete with the best. Molden participated in track and field and was part of record-breaking relay teams at Glenville that included local icon Ted Ginn, Jr.

[warren1st]

OK, found out he transfered to Glenville. I'm going to post something off the browns website leading up to the draft... Not sure how I would take this, the part where he transfered to Glenville to compete against the best.. God I hope they meant in track and not football against the Senate league.

For Browns fans, Molden has the added allure of deep northern Ohio roots. Starting his high school career at Warren Harding, Molden then transferred to Cleveland Glenville to compete with the best. Molden participated in track and field and was part of record-breaking relay teams at Glenville that included local icon Ted Ginn, Jr.
He transferred to Glenville after football season to compete in track.

[LakeCountyTiger]

I didn't know you were allowed to do that anymore...I remember a kid around here did it like 10 years ago. It seems like he played football, then transfered to play basketball maybe and it seemed like the state came in and put a rule in to effect but I can't remember what all the particulars were and it seemed like a small school like Kirtland (d-5) and maybe a private school was involved...it probably was at least 10 years ago now.. Watching Kokal's kid sure made me feel old...

[DAWGH8R]

Besides Mario, ... who??


Did you see this tidbit about Manningham ??

.............the Giants had drafted Mario Manningham, a wide receiver who scored an abnormally low 6 (out of 50) on the Wonderlic intelligence test, but the team's officials claimed he's a “great value.” Gary came in to explain that 10 points or more “suggests” that you're literate, a score of 14 is usually the bare minimum for the NFL, and the average score of non-football players is 28.

Will he still be taking classes ???

[warren1st]

Did you see this tidbit about Manningham ??

.............the Giants had drafted Mario Manningham, a wide receiver who scored an abnormally low 6 (out of 50) on the Wonderlic intelligence test, but the team's officials claimed he's a “great value.” Gary came in to explain that 10 points or more “suggests” that you're literate, a score of 14 is usually the bare minimum for the NFL, and the average score of non-football players is 28.

Will he still be taking classes ???

No, but he will be making a lot more money than most of us. No one ever said he was an academician.

[SuperBran]

Did you see this tidbit about Manningham ??

.............the Giants had drafted Mario Manningham, a wide receiver who scored an abnormally low 6 (out of 50) on the Wonderlic intelligence test, but the team's officials claimed he's a “great value.” Gary came in to explain that 10 points or more “suggests” that you're literate, a score of 14 is usually the bare minimum for the NFL, and the average score of non-football players is 28.

Will he still be taking classes ???

mario was probably high at the time, so you'll have to excuse the low score.

[football49]

2002 Raiders should not have trailed the Tigers that game, we felt we had the talent then and the coaching to match. But, the Tigers bring their best when they travel to Warren. It is always a nail biter--except last season! We owe you one of those.

I have to watch out though...... keep your fingers crossed, I may be moving in your direction---Tuscarawas County, Dover? My son Zack is starting to play football--a speed demon. That would make headline news, a Tiger player formerly from Warren............

Was that a joke - moving to Dover? Does your company have a manufacturing plant there? It would make sense to move to Massillon and drive to Dover . . . you don't want to move to Dover, believe me.

[DAWGH8R]

Was that a joke - moving to Dover? Does your company have a manufacturing plant there? It would make sense to move to Massillon and drive to Dover . . . you don't want to move to Dover, believe me.

Maybe if we pay for his gas , he'll stay here !