Massillon vs. Lexington??? 09 & 10!

[Present&Slay]

I did not want to post while you guys were under your official search as to not jinx it and lose Coach Payne. It sounds like you guys got the type guy you wanted...young and energetic. I'm glad it wasn't Coach Payne.

Anyways......Coach Payne said last night that he, our AD, and your AD are in talks to play Week 3 in 2009 and 2010! He said we would play at Massillon both years. All they are waiting for is your new head coach to sign off on it once he takes over. I will be very excited to see this game. I'm sure that Coach Payne, Jarvis, and Studer are even more excited about it and the opportunity to showcase the hard work they have been doing down here to their family and friends.

[JakeGiant]

I'm really surprised this would even unfold.

I guess after the McKinley-Solon fiasco, I can see why wait until Coach gets here to sign off.

[massillon catholic]

I can say that this is in the works and I already told BJ not to expect to be better than 9-1 both years. I did add that I hope he did well the rest of the season.

[Broder]

I can say that this is in the works and I already told BJ not to expect to be better than 9-1 both years. I did add that I hope he did well the rest of the season.

Do not underestimate Lexington. They have a lot of very good underclassmen & the coaching staff just might have something to prove.

This will be something for the Lexington community, if it comes about. They all will be able to see what Coach Payne, Jarvis, and Studer have been telling them about the Massillon Traditions first hand.

Don't look for Lexington to "Roll over and play dead". They will be prepared and ready to play if this happens.

Good luck to all!! This will be fun!!

[massillon catholic]

I don't know BJ that well, but it sounds like he is winning the "Mind Games" at this point. According to Present & Slay, it is up to the new Massillon Head Coach.



Save it!
He better worry about this year.

[Obie Wan]

This thread just keeps getting shorter and shorter.

[massillon catholic]

sometimes you have to keep some people happy:thumbsup:

[Kamd50]

sometimes you have to keep some people happy:thumbsup:

lol,I'm a little curious here, MC, just who is it that you two are keeping happy as it appears that both of you have been deleting your own posts?

Oh yea, I know some up and coming kids from the 09/10 teams that say "bring 'em on":tig:

[DragonTigerNemesis]

lol,I'm a little curious here, MC, just who is it that you two are keeping happy as it appears that both of you have been deleting your own posts?

Carle is coming to town.
Maybe Mr. MassillonCatholic is afraid he will come face-to-face with a big bad Moderator at at strip club somewhere.

[DragonTigerNemesis]

Oh yea, I know some up and coming kids from the 09/10 teams that say "bring 'em on":tig:

I've heard that from some of those kids also.

Last year Lex could have killed us.
And this year might be a little iffy---but look out in 09 and 10!


:heee:

[ak-rowdy]

isnt lexington a really small school? how would that help us?

[DragonTigerNemesis]

isnt lexington a really small school? how would that help us?

IF: Our new coach is Hall--
He and BJ were roommates at Mount Union.
We did not interview BJ for the position here.

BJ is an x pro wrassler---can you say GRUDGE MATCH!

:drinkem:

[Kamd50]

There is no question there would be a huge amount of hype and drama connected with these games if they were to become a reality. The HC matchup, Lex's super's history with Massillon, along with the other x Tigers on their staff.........I can feel the electricity already, lol! I betcha we'd have a heck of a good fan turnout too:ers:

[ChronicTiger]

Do not underestimate Lexington. They have a lot of very good underclassmen & the coaching staff just might have something to prove.

This will be something for the Lexington community, if it comes about. They all will be able to see what Coach Payne, Jarvis, and Studer have been telling them about the Massillon Traditions first hand.

Don't look for Lexington to "Roll over and play dead". They will be prepared and ready to play if this happens.

Good luck to all!! This will be fun!!

Yea, I've heard this before...just insert Dover instead of Lexington.....Look for the 2010 game to be called off....

[LakeCountyTiger]

isnt lexington a really small school? how would that help us?

They're Div II

[JakeGiant]

Yea, I've heard this before...just insert Dover instead of Lexington.....Look for the 2010 game to be called off....


I'm inclined to agree. At least Dover had a "winning" tradition when you guys played them. Lex has been mired in quite a few 2-8/4-6 type seasons, and now after going 8-2 for the 1st time in a longtime, they're ready to make the jump playing Willard on Week 3 to Massillon?

[savage4president]

What does Massillon have to gain by playing this game? They will garner less Harbin Points than by playing a D-I game. Massillon has nothing to gain and everything to lose by playing this.

[TigerVic]

What does Massillon have to gain by playing this game? They will garner less Harbin Points than by playing a D-I game. Massillon has nothing to gain and everything to lose by playing this.

How do we know Payne will still be in Lexington in '09 or '10?

[Obie Wan]

What does Massillon have to gain by playing this game? They will garner less Harbin Points than by playing a D-I game. Massillon has nothing to gain and everything to lose by playing this.
Massillon can get plenty of Harbins from this game. Wins count a whole lot more than division. You may well get more points from beating 8-2 Lexington than 6-4 Ignatius; the expected rate of return is certainly a lot higher. We would have received 46 point from beating Lexington this year. That's more than DI Middletown, for instance. Or Warren. Or McKinley.

[CATS44]

1) This would be a fine matchup, with a lot of interesting sub plots.

2) Lexington = Normandy. Anybody still think that Normandy cant compete?

3) Harbins are not dependent upon size of school nearly as much as on records. A win over Lexington would probably garner us more points than a win over the majority of our present opponents.

4) It is difficult to get a quality opponent to play us at home for two years.

5) To the best of my knowledge, the last former Tiger to lead an opponent against us was Augie Morningstar...and he beat us once. (mmauthor may know of somebody else, but Augie is the last one I can remember. mmauthor is younger and has a better memory...lol)

6) But if Lexington is interested in only one game (2009), Id rather look around for a two game series...and I think there is one available that would be very interesting.

[TigerVic]

5) To the best of my knowledge, the last former Tiger to lead an opponent against us was Augie Morningstar...and he beat us once. (mmauthor may know of somebody else, but Augie is the last one I can remember. mmauthor is younger and has a better memory...lol)

Although he didn't play as a Tiger, Bob Commings beat us in '86 when he was at GlenOak. Also, Dave Hartman (former player) did the same while at Fitch in the 80s and early 90s.

Todd Porter tries to do it daily.

[JakeGiant]

Cats44, I respectfully disagree to put Lex as equal to Normandy at this time. The latter showed a little more consistency winning/making the Playoffs then the Minutemen have recently. And, Normandy is used to playing competition greater than Lex.

[CATS44]

Before the present coach arrived, Normandy was 2-8...0-10...4-6.

[JakeGiant]

I know. But, Normandy has had 4 straight winnings seasons, and have made the Playoffs 3 of the last 4 years. I think Coach Payne/Lex could reach that status, but as of now, I need to see more.

[Present&Slay]

Coach Payne has been trying to improve the schedule since he got to Lexington. He hasn't been able to do anything yet, but maybe the Massillon game will be his first addition. He has managed to upgrade the scrimmages this year to Hilliard Darby and Findlay.

But let's be honest, Coach Payne isn't going to come into Massillon with a weak team. The 09 and 10 teams should be very good and have the best chance to give Massillon a good game. The 09 team will have a 4 year starting QB in Courtney Avery and big offensive linemen, one of whom started this past year.

I have too much respect for the Massillon tradition and its fans to come on here and start making absurd predictions. But I do think Lexington will provide a solid opponent for Massillon in 09 and 10.

I hope it happens for our kids sake, so can they can see first hand what Coach Payne, Studer, and Jarvis have been preaching to them. I'm sure our boys would be playing their best for those guys that night, if it happens.

Anyways, I suppose we will have to wait to see what your new coach wants to do first. As I understood it, it is in his hands. I also think your new coach and Coach Payne are pretty close. I'm sure they are talking as well.

Congrats on the new hire by the way!

[savage4president]

Massillon can get plenty of Harbins from this game. Wins count a whole lot more than division. You may well get more points from beating 8-2 Lexington than 6-4 Ignatius; the expected rate of return is certainly a lot higher. We would have received 46 point from beating Lexington this year. That's more than DI Middletown, for instance. Or Warren. Or McKinley.

Second level yes...First level know. I may not be real football smart...but I'd have to believe they are called 1st level for some reason.

[JakeGiant]

I had a Findlay poster tell me Findlay and Lexington were scrimmaging each other. Good for them.

Weeks 1 and 2 seemed steady with Ontario and Shelby, and Big Walnut, Olentangy, and Willard being the Week 3 opponents, recently. Is Lex willing to give up Shelby for example? That seems like a nice, backyard rivalry.

[Broder]

I had a Findlay poster tell me Findlay and Lexington were scrimmaging each other. Good for them.

Weeks 1 and 2 seemed steady with Ontario and Shelby, and Big Walnut, Olentangy, and Willard being the Week 3 opponents, recently. Is Lex willing to give up Shelby for example? That seems like a nice, backyard rivalry.

On this year's Lexington schedule...Shelby is Week 2 and Ontario has been replaced in Week 1 by Mt. Vernon (a D -1 school). Week 3 is Willard and their program has taken a dive in recent years. Lexington is a solid program now and would provide a quality opponent for the Tigers in '09 and '10.

From what I hear and read Lex should go 9-1 or 10-0 over the next couple of years. That should provide many points for Massillon as opposed to some of the schools on the schedule now.

Time will tell. Coach Hall has to make the decision. Lexington is willing to take the risk and travel to Massillon for the two years. Coach Payne is trying to upgrade the program. You don't do that by playing "The Sister's of the Poor"...you do it by playing Massillon, McKinley, Iggy and other quality programs. It only makes you stronger come playoff time.

[CATS44]

In the computer ratings, First Level points may be called first level, but they are very minor in the computations.

Had we played Lexington last season, we would have gotten 5.5 points had we won.

But we would have gotten around 37-42 second level points, depending upon which team we would have replaced on Lexingtons schedule.

We would have gotten more points for beating Lexington than we got for any other game we played last year, excepting maybe Ursuline, who is a D5.

Second level points are the name of the game in the computer rankings.

[LLRose]

Are you guys kidding me?

We're talking about playing Lexington and people are against joining the Fed?

Lexington would be a consistent bottom feeder if they were in the Fed.

These one game fill-ins against Dover or other rural schools like Lexington are a joke.

[giajay54]

Its called computer points that are much needed. What should we do add St. X or some other power house. We need games like these. Not saying they are easy, but we need some padding to get through the meat grinder. Why do you think we barely get in the playoffs from time to time with really good teams? Because we play the best 7 out of 10 weeks. 2 of the 3 games we have that aren't against the best are usually potential upset teams and one is usually a sure lock for a win. To be the best in high school football you don't have to play the best in the regular season. To be the best in high school football you have to get into the playoffs to beat the best. If you play the best every weekend you eventually tally some losses. 3 or 4 losses can spell end of season and no chance of playing the best or being the best. Lexington is a good game to sign.

[LLRose]

Its called computer points that are much needed. What should we do add St. X or some other power house. We need games like these. Not saying they are easy, but we need some padding to get through the meat grinder. Why do you think we barely get in the playoffs from time to time with really good teams? Because we play the best 7 out of 10 weeks. 2 of the 3 games we have that aren't against the best are usually potential upset teams and one is usually a sure lock for a win. To be the best in high school football you don't have to play the best in the regular season. To be the best in high school football you have to get into the playoffs to beat the best. If you play the best every weekend you eventually tally some losses. 3 or 4 losses can spell end of season and no chance of playing the best or being the best. Lexington is a good game to sign.

Maybe we can join the NBC or would you rather just schedule Marlington and Minerva every other year?

If we're a DI National and State Powerhouse why don't we schedule like it or join a league?

Also, I don't see St X scheduling Division II rural schools or St Ignatius playing Amherst or Lorain Midview.

[JakeGiant]

Broder, I'll post more info in a bit, but did you know Mount Vernon is 2-38 in the last 4 years? :eek2:

[JakeGiant]

On this year's Lexington schedule...Shelby is Week 2 and Ontario has been replaced in Week 1 by Mt. Vernon (a D -1 school). Week 3 is Willard and their program has taken a dive in recent years. Lexington is a solid program now and would provide a quality opponent for the Tigers in '09 and '10.

From what I hear and read Lex should go 9-1 or 10-0 over the next couple of years. That should provide many points for Massillon as opposed to some of the schools on the schedule now.

Time will tell. Coach Hall has to make the decision. Lexington is willing to take the risk and travel to Massillon for the two years. Coach Payne is trying to upgrade the program. You don't do that by playing "The Sister's of the Poor"...you do it by playing Massillon, McKinley, Iggy and other quality programs. It only makes you stronger come playoff time.

Okay, as mentioned, Lex will be playing a Mount Vernon program that's in the dumps. Sounds like they were better off staying with Div IV Ontario who can win 7-8 games. There goes the "Sisters of the Poor" theory. And bear in mind, Lex is Division II coming off one of their finer seasons in awhile. Realistically, to think you'll be better playing the likes of Massillon, St. Ignatius, McKinley, etc is crazy. Instead of making you stronger come playoff time, it will eliminate you from the Playoffs. And, we may be putting the cart in front of the horse for the time being. Lex hasn't had a strong history beating the Ashlands, Orrvilles, nor Shelby when they're on, and heck even a down Mansfield squad has typically had their number. Clear Fork and Madison have been about 50/50.

I guess I shouldn't care, but for both programs sake, this game IMHO, isn't a good idea.

[LLRose]

Okay, as mentioned, Lex will be playing a Mount Vernon program that's in the dumps. Sounds like they were better off staying with Div IV Ontario who can win 7-8 games. There goes the "Sisters of the Poor" theory. And bear in mind, Lex is Division II coming off one of their finer seasons in awhile. Realistically, to think you'll be better playing the likes of Massillon, St. Ignatius, McKinley, etc is crazy. Instead of making you stronger come playoff time, it will eliminate you from the Playoffs. And, we may be putting the cart in front of the horse for the time being. Lex hasn't had a strong history beating the Ashlands, Orrvilles, nor Shelby when they're on, and heck even a down Mansfield squad has typically had their number. Clear Fork and Madison have been about 50/50.

I guess I shouldn't care, but for both programs sake, this game IMHO, isn't a good idea.

This game is an awful idea. Actually the idea makes me sick. If BJ wasn't the coach, this would NEVER be considered. This type of scheduling cheapens our program. I compare this to playing a Canadian team.

[Obie Wan]

These one game fill-ins against Dover or other rural schools like Lexington are a joke.
Coldwater is a rural school.

[JakeGiant]

But, he never said rural schools like Coldwater. :angel:

[CATS44]

What is a joke is our penchant for continually over scheduling in the regular season, and then watching lesser teams in the playoffs, while we sit home.

If you want to be a state or national power, you have to win in the playoffs, but you cant win in the playoffs unless you qualify first.

We adults are doing our kids a total disservice by constantly insisting on suicide schedules.

It is true that to be the best you have to play...and beat...the best. But the best arent decided until after the tenth week.

[Marie]

I would like to see us play Lexington. It would be much better than a game with any team from Canada.

[Red50Go]

This game is an awful idea. Actually the idea makes me sick. If BJ wasn't the coach, this would NEVER be considered. This type of scheduling cheapens our program. I compare this to playing a Canadian team.

Dumb post. Fact is, BJ IS the coach, so the game would draw alot of interest. Plus they are a playoff team, and harbin cow. Would you rather we filled out the schedule w/ the Eastlake Norths, Youngstown Wilsons, and Western Hills of the world? (let alone Calvin Coolidge & Friendship Edison, ugggh). Maybe we should just play Iggy 10 times and solve both our scheduling problems.

[Broder]

Okay, as mentioned, Lex will be playing a Mount Vernon program that's in the dumps. Sounds like they were better off staying with Div IV Ontario who can win 7-8 games. There goes the "Sisters of the Poor" theory. And bear in mind, Lex is Division II coming off one of their finer seasons in awhile. Realistically, to think you'll be better playing the likes of Massillon, St. Ignatius, McKinley, etc is crazy. Instead of making you stronger come playoff time, it will eliminate you from the Playoffs. And, we may be putting the cart in front of the horse for the time being. Lex hasn't had a strong history beating the Ashlands, Orrvilles, nor Shelby when they're on, and heck even a down Mansfield squad has typically had their number. Clear Fork and Madison have been about 50/50.

I guess I shouldn't care, but for both programs sake, this game IMHO, isn't a good idea.

Believe me when I tell you Mt. Vernon was not Coach Payne's first choice. He asked for a D-1 school and the AD chose Mt. Vernon. Shelby and Ashland are quality programs with excellent coaching staffs. You won't beat them every year no matter what you do. But, just like Massillon and St. Ignatius or Moeller, if you play them often enought and improve your program you are going to start winning your share.

The program at Lexington is on the rise and they are a quality school, not just in athletics but also academically. They draw students from around the surrounding area because of the diversity of the school. You can't blame Coach Payne for wanting his players to "Taste" the Massillon Experience. But it probably is a bad idea...since it won't benefit Massillon to play Lexington. It probably would be better for Massillon to schedule a tougher, bigger name school to play Week 3. But, if it doesn't, it will miss out on a great game and a ton of computer points.

Don't rate Lexington on their past record. Talk to anyone in Lexington and they will tell you the football program is no where near what it was in the past.

[massillon catholic]

I would like to see us play Lexington. It would be much better than a game with any team from Canada.

Canada is a perfect game this year in between some very tough games. No problem here for canada this year.

[JakeGiant]

Believe me when I tell you Mt. Vernon was not Coach Payne's first choice. He asked for a D-1 school and the AD chose Mt. Vernon. Shelby and Ashland are quality programs with excellent coaching staffs. You won't beat them every year no matter what you do. But, just like Massillon and St. Ignatius or Moeller, if you play them often enought and improve your program you are going to start winning your share.

The program at Lexington is on the rise and they are a quality school, not just in athletics but also academically. They draw students from around the surrounding area because of the diversity of the school. You can't blame Coach Payne for wanting his players to "Taste" the Massillon Experience. But it probably is a bad idea...since it won't benefit Massillon to play Lexington. It probably would be better for Massillon to schedule a tougher, bigger name school to play Week 3. But, if it doesn't, it will miss out on a great game and a ton of computer points.

Don't rate Lexington on their past record. Talk to anyone in Lexington and they will tell you the football program is no where near what it was in the past.

First, I have to ask, what is the relationship between Payne and the Head Coach? This strikes me as totally odd to request a DI school, and get one that's 2-38 over the last 4 years. At least Division IV Ontario generally won 7-8 games. And in case anyone didn't notice, Lex went 8-2 last year, and finished 7th in Region 6. Region 6 is probably the most competitive of all the Regions in Division II. Hence, another good idea not to play Massillon, especially now Mount Vernon is on the schedule. Good grief.

I did some researching, and I guess Lex isn't nearly as bad I thought going back to 2000. I knew they made the Playoffs in 2001, but they are 41-41 since 2000. Take out their playoff games, and they're 41-39. Nothing to brag, but considering this is Lex, not too shabby. I guess that is what Red50 meant by "Harbin cow."

[CATS44]

It doesnt matter if you are Massillon or Lexington or Steubenville. A public school simply will not be successful over any length of time by playing every heavyweight in the state.

[JakeGiant]

I'm not suggesting that, Cats. I just think there is a better option for the 2 than each other, especially since we are talking Week 3(as Conference/League play hasn't started).

Hypothetical, to those heavily favoring Lexington must mean you're open arms to the idea of joining the Fed, if given the chance, correct?

[monte81]

I have nothing but respect for what BJ and his staff has built in his short tenure at Lexington. If you watch them practice and workout they remind you of how we did things in Massillon with Coach Studer!:weightlift:


Jake Giant----BJ and Coach Hall were roommates at MUC and remain good friends!

The tigers will be fine, Lex wont back down, and nothing wrong with scheduling this game. Great politicing and dealing by Coach Payne!

Coach Hall you have my full support whatever the schedule may look like this year or in the future! Remember, teams are not lining up to play the tigers even comin off back 2 back 6-4 regular seasons!

Tiger Team and Staff---let's get to work on a great new tenure and season in 2008!!!!

[LLRose]

What is a joke is our penchant for continually over scheduling in the regular season, and then watching lesser teams in the playoffs, while we sit home.

If you want to be a state or national power, you have to win in the playoffs, but you cant win in the playoffs unless you qualify first.

We adults are doing our kids a total disservice by constantly insisting on suicide schedules.

It is true that to be the best you have to play...and beat...the best. But the best arent decided until after the tenth week.

Never has an e-mail more clearly defined the scheduling benefits and rational for joining a league, great post.

[LLRose]

Dumb post. Fact is, BJ IS the coach, so the game would draw alot of interest. Plus they are a playoff team, and harbin cow. Would you rather we filled out the schedule w/ the Eastlake Norths, Youngstown Wilsons, and Western Hills of the world? (let alone Calvin Coolidge & Friendship Edison, ugggh). Maybe we should just play Iggy 10 times and solve both our scheduling problems.

Another post calling out the benefits of joining a league, great post except for the part calling my post dumb.

[JakeGiant]

To play devil's advocate, that's why I posed the question as well. How does one all of a sudden get excited about Lex, and then dismiss the idea of playing Fed Schools and/or join their League?

[Smitty]

... How does one all of a sudden get excited about Lex, and then dismiss the idea of playing Fed Schools and/or join their League?

As a whole, we don't mind playing a couple of Fed teams each season; and we don't want to join their league.

[LLRose]

Coldwater is a rural school.

So are Minerva and Marlington. Do you want to play them?

[CATS44]

Dont count me among smittys 'we'....lol.

I want a four part season.

A) The four game non league season, culminating in the Warren game...maybe one 'fun' game...something like a series with Steubenville or Altoona or UA. Keep Mentor, if we want. Maybe Glenville at home.

1) Garfield H
2) Firestone (with Flossie coaching) H
3) Lexington, or somebody like that. H
4) Warren H/A

B) League schedule.

5) Jackson
6) Lake
7) Hoover
8) Perry
9) Glen Oak (H/A opposite McK)

C) You know who.

10) McKinley

D) Playoffs

That gives us six or seven home games...little travel costs...big gate revenues. Our two major rivalries, and several other back yard brawls. Plenty of computer points. And it prepares us for the playoffs.

Notice that Boardman and Fitch are not on that schedule. They are skeedaddling soon.

[LLRose]

Dont count me among smittys 'we'....lol.

I want a four part season.

A) The four game non league season, culminating in the Warren game...maybe one 'fun' game...something like a series with Steubenville or Altoona or UA. Keep Mentor, if we want. Maybe Glenville at home.

1) Garfield H
2) Firestone (with Flossie coaching) H
3) Lexington, or somebody like that. H
4) Warren H/A

B) League schedule.

5) Jackson
6) Lake
7) Hoover
8) Perry
9) Glen Oak (H/A opposite McK)

C) You know who.

10) McKinley

D) Playoffs

That gives us six or seven home games...little travel costs...big gate revenues. Our two major rivalries, and several other back yard brawls. Plenty of computer points. And it prepares us for the playoffs.

Notice that Boardman and Fitch are not on that schedule. They are skeedaddling soon.

What a great schedule.

We see this exactly the same way. Lexington doesn't excite me but I'm flexible.