Rec. Center vs. The Legends

[casey]

Should The Rec. Center suffer due to the financial losses accrued by The Legends?

Although it sounds like there are some financial problems at both places, more people seem to benefit from the variety of activities and opportunities provided by The Rec. Center. Also, the golf course is only open for a short time during the year and the majority of citizens don't use it. People of all ages use The Rec. Center and the membership fees were significantly increased a year ago. Almost everyone knows someone who uses it weekly, if not daily. The staff is excellent and so are the facilities.

I would appreciate it if someone on the Parks and Recreation Board would provide accurate statistics as, although The Rec. Center is running on a small deficit, it seems to me that the community voted for it and whole-heartedly supports it. :weightlift:

[giant lugey]

The way the city structured the debt for the golf course is like an adjustable rate mortgage. They paid little or nothing in the beginning, which is why the profits were so high. Every year, the debt payment grows, and now it is to a point where they are coming up short.
Had the city set aside those early profits for future debt payment, they would not be in this mess. Instead they diverted those profits over to the general fund. It was the mayors cash cow.
Also, had the city not given away the food and beverage business for a mere 10%, they would be making another $200,000 + a year.
They can’t restructure the debt because they can only do that once, and they did it when they added 9 more holes.

So here we are with a course that will eventually make money, but they are in the hole right now. Ms. Fererro said the $2.5 million from the land sale would carry the course for the next 12 years. That amounts to $208,000 a year. That also is about what the city could make from the food and beverage business. Is anyone seeing the solution yet?

It is my understanding that they can’t take over the food and beverage for another 2 years. So they need a fix for 2 years, then I think it will be OK.

The city’s budget is $31 million. The rec tax is $2.2 million. That is over $33 million.
The amount needed to float the course is less than 1%. I would think they could come up with that, especially since in the beginning, they probably took more than that away from the course.

BTW…the city structured the debt for the Rec Center the same way, and the same problems are coming up on that. Won’t they ever learn?

[Rushfan]

Won't people in this town ever learn to quit re-electing a certain tantrum-throwing mayor?

[Lakewood]

Won't people in this town ever learn to quit re-electing a certain tantrum-throwing mayor?

THANK YOU!!

[DAWGH8R]

THANK YOU!!


Very obviously, you two are in a HUGE minority in your thinking !!:stars:

[reofan82]

Very obviously, you two are in a HUGE minority in your thinking !!:stars:

That is because people are not allowed to have a true choice in who to vote for. Any realistic opponent has "odd" things happen to them early in the election process.

[CarlE]

Won't people in this town ever learn to quit re-electing a certain tantrum-throwing mayor?

If he's so bad, run against him.

[giant lugey]

Nobody wants to be mayor because they would have to take a pay cut

[Proud Tiger]

Is it my imagination - or am I starting to see a pattern? It seems that everytime someone mentions the Mayor, the 4 Musketeers (Rush fan - Lakewood - Reo fan & Woody Hayes) always seem to come to life!! Who seems to be your leader? It's kind of ironic when, I believe, at least three of them don't even live in Massillon. And Reo fan - are you that much of a right-wing conspirator-loving freak that you make such idiotic comments about odd things in the election process? We are all curious - please give us some examples. What did I miss - I thought Councilman Tim Bryan was a formidable opponent in the last election and that the people of Massillon made their choice. Did I miss something????

[5starred]

Here is a interesting FACT
Councilman Larry Slagle is a member of the YMCA Board of Directors. Is this why he criticizes the Rec Center ?
I just hate when we find out these jokers have a private agenda.
Is this a conflict ? Wonder what the ethics committee would do ?

[Tiger77]

It's not criticism if you're stating facts.

[5starred]

I believe the facts can be distorted when you wear two hats.

[Broder]

Here is a interesting FACT
Councilman Larry Slagle is a member of the YMCA Board of Directors. Is this why he criticizes the Rec Center ?
I just hate when we find out these jokers have a private agenda.
Is this a conflict ? Wonder what the ethics committee would do ?

Before you go throwing stones at Larry...you should check and see who else involved in the proceedings is also wearing two hats (and there are a couple).

The last I checked Larry Slagle wasn't criticizing the Rec Center...he was questioning the subsidizing of it. He is trying to make some sense out of all the city debt and not rubber stamping everything. I don't find that bad at all, that is why people voted him into office. Larry Slagle is a straight up, honorable man. Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house...or at least dress in the basement.

[Rushfan]

THANK YOU!!

You're quite welcome.

[Rushfan]

If he's so bad, run against him.

Carl,I don't want the cops following me everywhere I go.

[Rushfan]

Is it my imagination - or am I starting to see a pattern? It seems that everytime someone mentions the Mayor, the 4 Musketeers (Rush fan - Lakewood - Reo fan & Woody Hayes) always seem to come to life!! Who seems to be your leader? It's kind of ironic when, I believe, at least three of them don't even live in Massillon. And Reo fan - are you that much of a right-wing conspirator-loving freak that you make such idiotic comments about odd things in the election process? We are all curious - please give us some examples. What did I miss - I thought Councilman Tim Bryan was a formidable opponent in the last election and that the people of Massillon made their choice. Did I miss something????

Hey,4 Musketeers-I like that! Call me Rushthos! Anyway,let me give you a little example. Several years ago,a gentleman by the name of William Kraft announced that he was going to run against his Highness in an upcoming general election. Less than a week after he announced this,he was followed by the cops,pulled over and charged with a D.U.I. If my memory serves me correctly,he'd never been in any kind of trouble before. Now I in no way condone drinking and driving,but doesn't the fact that he was followed after he announced his candidacy seem a little fishy? Shall I go on? By the way,Reofan does not make idiotic comments,he talks from the gut and speaks the truth. Trouble is,to quote Jack Nicholson,you libbies CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

[DAWGH8R]

Now it's the MAYOR's fault that Mr Kraft chooses to drive drunk ????

Talk about conspiracy theories !! WoW !! You guys are INCREDIBLE !!

Maybe it's a good thing he didn't get elected !!:wall:

[Dingma608]

It couldn't have been that he was pulled over because he was driving erratically? He was after all issued a DUI. Sounds like conspiracy theory.

[Proud Tiger]

For your information, and by the way, this is all public record - the Mayor hired Mr. Kraft as Chief Building Official. At that time, he was given a certain time period in which he had to pass a test to be certified in this capacity. I believe he failed several times and had to be replaced in his job due to the fact that he was unable to pass his certification test. To make a long story short - Mr. Kraft eventually passed this test, was certified, and re-hired by the Mayor - all after he ran against him in 1999. Now what does that tell you about the Mayor - he certainly held nothing against Mr. Kraft. Just like Rush Limbaugh - let's spin the facts -----

[Doom5oh]

Do you really think the police department is a tool or some sort of secret police for the mayor?!? Put your paranoia back in your pocket. His relationship with the rank and file police officers has been tenuous at best. I think most city employees have a vested interest in the city growing and remaining viable.

As for the rec center, can someone tell me why a building addition was made if making the current debt payments would be a problem? As the for ‘two hats’ problem, can someone also tell me what member of the current parks and rec board owns property interest next to the land to be sold to developers?

Oh BTW, the course did open this week I guess. Maybe they should let someone know.

[reofan82]

Is it my imagination - or am I starting to see a pattern? It seems that everytime someone mentions the Mayor, the 4 Musketeers (Rush fan - Lakewood - Reo fan & Woody Hayes) always seem to come to life!! Who seems to be your leader? It's kind of ironic when, I believe, at least three of them don't even live in Massillon. And Reo fan - are you that much of a right-wing conspirator-loving freak that you make such idiotic comments about odd things in the election process? We are all curious - please give us some examples. What did I miss - I thought Councilman Tim Bryan was a formidable opponent in the last election and that the people of Massillon made their choice. Did I miss something????

Well, ProudTiger I do not live in Massillon currently, but lived there for most of my life. I lived under your buddies rule and I know what has gone on in the past and what goes on in the present. I was not talking about voter fraud or whatever it is you are implying. Please see above references of ONE example of what I was talking about.

Right Wing Conspirator loving freak? Man, you really are one of his buddies aren't you? Please feel free to insult those with different ideas, it is the only thing you and your kind know to do when confronted with different views and ideas. By the way, why are members of City Council, most from your pal's own party, putting up more of a fight these days, when it comes to issues brought up at the council meetings? Are they right wing conspirators too? Face it, the King doesn't like to be challenged, neither by Republicans or fellow Democrats. Do not pretend you know about me, Rushfan, and the rest of us who recently came to life. Go find your buddy.

[Rushfan]

Now it's the MAYOR's fault that Mr Kraft chooses to drive drunk ????

Talk about conspiracy theories !! WoW !! You guys are INCREDIBLE !!

Maybe it's a good thing he didn't get elected !!:wall:

Now,is that what I said? I was implying that if you ever challenge the Emperor of Massillon on ANYthing,you better watch your back because his goon squad will be looking for any excuse to nail you. And I reiterate, I DO NOT condone driving drunk.

[DAWGH8R]

Now,is that what I said? I was implying that if you ever challenge the Emperor of Massillon on ANYthing,you better watch your back because his goon squad will be looking for any excuse to nail you. And I reiterate, I DO NOT condone driving drunk.

Let me get this straight: If he hadn't have challenged the Mayor, he wouldn't have gotten a DUI.

Guess I didn't think of it that way !! :doh:

Let's just hope that Massillon's Finest keep arresting those that CHOSE to drive drunk !! God forbid, it could be a friend or family member of yours that they kill in a car wreck.

[Indiana95]

:offtopic: Let's get back to the topic. The link below should provide some historical perspective. It appears that the current prediciment may have resulted from a number of issues, including some bad decisions and the state of the economy.

Mr. Slagle's membership to the YMCA's Board is interesting. The Rec Center is the main competition for the Y. Mr. Slagle has made repeated statements that the Rec Center should stand on its own, without tax subsidy (which goes against what the voters approved in the first place). What's even more interesting is the fact that the YMCA can't stand on its own either! Without United Way and other foundation, sponsorship, and grant monies (including past funding from the City) to subsidize its operations, THE YMCA WOULD NOT STAND ON ITS OWN Mr. Slagle!! The cat is out. He's not concerned about the Rec Center. I wonder if his goal of driving up the prices at the Rec Center would also drive business to the Y? After all, he's got to know that their prices are currently very comparable...Hmmm :scratchchin:

http://www.massillonohio.com/parks/about.html

[MassillonMom]

Walked the track at the Rec Center last week-saw a dirty kleenex on the track along with large pieces of lint (or something similar?).

Where's a broom or sweeper, guys?

[Indiana95]

Walked the track at the Rec Center last week-saw a dirty kleenex on the track along with large pieces of lint (or something similar?).

Where's a broom or sweeper, guys?

You know what I teach my kids? See litter, pick it up! We can all work together to keep things clean you know? As for trash on the floor....eventually it happens. Someone drops something....on purpose or not, it does take at least a few minutes for the sweeper guy to spot it. Pretty picky my dear.:laughing:

[Proud Tiger]

I only pointed out a fact. That a pattern is obvious here. The Four Musketeers are always ready to pounce on anything negative about the Mayor. The example used by RUSHfan about William Kraft has been proven to be false. So who are the spinners and exaggerators here? Goodness gracious. The Mayor hired Kraft back and he's presently serving as the City's Chief Building Official.

By the way, I am not a "buddy" of the Mayor. I just happen to think, overall he's the best thing to happen to Massillon. His heart is ALWAYS in the right place------------------MASSILLON.

[Rushfan]

:puke::puke:I only pointed out a fact. That a pattern is obvious here. The Four Musketeers are always ready to pounce on anything negative about the Mayor. The example used by RUSHfan about William Kraft has been proven to be false. So who are the spinners and exaggerators here? Goodness gracious. The Mayor hired Kraft back and he's presently serving as the City's Chief Building Official.

By the way, I am not a "buddy" of the Mayor. I just happen to think, overall he's the best thing to happen to Massillon. His heart is ALWAYS in the right place------------------MASSILLON.

Then why does he live in Perry Township? HMMMMM?

[Proud Tiger]

Rushfan--------------You are brilliant!!!!! How can you make such a uninformed statement? If the Mayor lived in Perry Township, how could he be the mayor of Massillon? That's like the governor of Ohio living in Indiana!!! Can't be. Maybe you are referring to the fact that the Mayor lives in an allotment that is in the Perry Local School District. Big difference. In fact the City of Massillon, because oif growth through annexation extends into the Tuslaw, Fairless, Jackson, Perry as well as the Massillon City School Districts.

Okay--- What's next?:lol:

[5starred]

Proud Tiger. There definitely was a second shooter on the grassy knoll.
I heard the PD was busy last week when a township trustee entered the Massillon City limits, driving slowly looking around with envy when spotted by the Mayor who was perched high a top Massillon as to keep it safe from all evil. Seeking truth, justice, and the American way.

[reofan82]

Proud Tiger. There definitely was a second shooter on the grassy knoll.
I heard the PD was busy last week when a township trustee entered the Massillon City limits, driving slowly looking around with envy when spotted by the Mayor who was perched high a top Massillon as to keep it safe from all evil. Seeking truth, justice, and the American way.

I am now picturing the Mayor in spandex, with a mask, perched a top the tallest building in Massillon. Thank you for that mental picture! Looks like a few more issues to work through!

[Lakewood]

[QUOTE=Proud Tiger;101288]I only pointed out a fact. That a pattern is obvious here. The Four Musketeers are always ready to pounce on anything negative about the Mayor. The example used by RUSHfan about William Kraft has been proven to be false. So who are the spinners and exaggerators here? Goodness gracious. The Mayor hired Kraft back and he's presently serving as the City's Chief Building Official.

By the way, I am not a "buddy" of the Mayor. I just happen to think, overall he's the best thing to happen to Massillon. His heart is ALWAYS in the right place------------------MASSILLON.[/QUO

PT, the Mayor have done some good things for for the city but he needs to grow up-he throws tantruns if you disagree with him or if you don't vote in his favor then he has it in for you. He acts like one of those kids who brings the football to the game and if he can't play quarterback he takes his football and go home. The Mayor needs to GROW UP

[Indiana95]

PT, the Mayor have done some good things for for the city but he needs to grow up-he throws tantruns if you disagree with him or if you don't vote in his favor then he has it in for you. He acts like one of those kids who brings the football to the game and if he can't play quarterback he takes his football and go home. The Mayor needs to GROW UP

I really like the Mayor, but he does have his ways. Don't get on his bad side. It's hard for him to forgive certain people. All in all, I think he always has Massillon's best interest in mind, even if he has made some bad decisions over the years.

[5starred]

If every thing he did was right there would still be ney sayers. Thats the shame of it all.
I'm pretty sure that would be the case no matter who is Mayor, just because you can.

[bs.gunn]

Here is a interesting FACT
Councilman Larry Slagle is a member of the YMCA Board of Directors. Is this why he criticizes the Rec Center ?
I just hate when we find out these jokers have a private agenda.
Is this a conflict ? Wonder what the ethics committee would do ?

If it's a fact then quote the source

He brings up the funding of the rec Center because it's his job as a councilman to do it.

I would imagine the ethics committee would investigate to see how Mr.Slagle and/or the YMCA of Massillon has to gain by the Massillon Rec center paying it's way in massillon which was the intent of it in the first place.

THis is not a question of YMCA funding. It's a question of Rec Center funding. Keep your eye on the ball and stop with the conspiracy theories.

I wonder what you have to gain "5starred" by attacking Mr.Slagle anonymously on the internet.

[5starred]

My source is the YMCA, I have a buddy who is on the board and he gave me a list of board members.
What to I have to gain ? I get paid 100.00 bucks a post by the auditor.
Sorry I have an opinion.

[bs.gunn]

My source is the YMCA, I have a buddy who is on the board and he gave me a list of board members.
What to I have to gain ? I get paid 100.00 bucks a post by the auditor.
Sorry I have an opinion.

Well you happen to be correct he is on the board. I did my own fact checking and found this out. I never beleive what I read on the internet without sources. Pardon me for asking.

I would like to reiterate that it's Councilman Slagle's duty to spark debate about the money of our city and where it goes and for you to insinuate that this is only because he's on the BoD for the local YMCA as the reasoning is silly. My guess is that if you knew the man then you would be less likely to speak out against his questioning, unless of course you or someone you know is directly involved with the answers to his questions. It is my belief that some honest questioning and truth seeking is EXACTLY what this community needs.

Everyone has an epinion and most of them stink.

[macguy]

Well you happen to be correct he is on the board. I did my own fact checking and found this out. I never beleive what I read on the internet without sources. Pardon me for asking.

I would like to reiterate that it's Councilman Slagle's duty to spark debate about the money of our city and where it goes and for you to insinuate that this is only because he's on the BoD for the local YMCA as the reasoning is silly. My guess is that if you knew the man then you would be less likely to speak out against his questioning, unless of course you or someone you know is directly involved with the answers to his questions. It is my belief that some honest questioning and truth seeking is EXACTLY what this community needs.

Everyone has an epinion and most of them stink.


That is exactly right. I would expect to see questions raised on funding, regardless!
Why is it just now coming to our attention about the difference in funding and income for these 2 entities? Have they never been looked at previously? This has been an issue for a while now. We don't need more housing at the course. We need to fill the tee times and book social events and other money generating things at the course to offset low numbers on the greens.

It is all about perception. If the golf course is marketed as a great place to play, then people will become interested in it and pay a visit. If the Rec Center is marketed as a great place to be at, then people will take a look. MCTV should be the first place to look at as far as creating a commercial for the Legends/Rec Center. Local commercials, local interest, local support. And for pete's sake, put actual pictures of the rec center on the NEW website. How do you expect people to keep interest of they come to tour the rec center and find that the images that sparked their interest are not of the actual place. And fix the intro movie if you are going to keep it. If you are going to have something on the main page (even though the times have changed in the last 5 years to where people will skip past a main page intro Flash movie) where I as a viewer can click SKIP INTRO, then make the link work instead of having me click the link and the movie keep playing. My advice, use local imagery (shouldn't be too hard for a LOCAL web designer) and take away the intro movie completely (not necessary). You can accomplish the same movie concept in other areas of the website.

Come on for crying out loud! It was mentioned previously that there is hardly any signage as to where the main entrance to the course is. I agree. I travel Richville Dr. almost daily and until the buzz about the Christmas lights display back there, I had no idea where to find the course (if you couldn't tell, I don't golf). I knew it was in a general area, but that was about it.

But with a spending freeze, there is nothing that can be done about that anytime soon. We'll see if they can use this 3 month freeze to brainstorm on how to save the Legends and the Rec Center.

[giant lugey]

I didn't see this much flack when the city had to bail out the hotel, and to me that was a bigger waste of money.

[dataintsmiff]

Hey,4 Musketeers-I like that! Call me Rushthos! Anyway,let me give you a little example. Several years ago,a gentleman by the name of William Kraft announced that he was going to run against his Highness in an upcoming general election. Less than a week after he announced this,he was followed by the cops,pulled over and charged with a D.U.I. If my memory serves me correctly,he'd never been in any kind of trouble before. Now I in no way condone drinking and driving,but doesn't the fact that he was followed after he announced his candidacy seem a little fishy? Shall I go on? By the way,Reofan does not make idiotic comments,he talks from the gut and speaks the truth. Trouble is,to quote Jack Nicholson,you libbies CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Ok, I'm no fan of the Mayor, but you need to check your resources before you go spouting off at the mouth and making stupid statements like the one above. When Mr. Kraft was arrested for his DWI in 1999, the arresting agency was the Ohio State Highway Patrol, not the Massillon PD, and I know for a fact that the Mayor has no ties there, or enough pull with that agency that he would prove your stupid theory correct in that a cop followed Mr. Kraft around and arrested him because he announced he was running for the Mayor of Massillon. That's assanine!