Top 10 Massillon QB's

[Paul Brown]

1. Zwick
2. Franklin
3. Sparma
4. Huth
5. Offenbecher
6. Hurst
7. Dewitz
8. Spencer
9. Eberhardt
10. Martin

[TigerVic]

Did we not have QB's before the late 50s?

An honorable mention would be the grossly underutilized Erik White from '87.

[Benchboss1]

There is no way in the world that Huth should be ranked ahead of Offenbecher and Dewitz. That is plain wrong!

[UnionTiger]

Amen

[Paul Brown]

There is no way in the world that Huth should be ranked ahead of Offenbecher and Dewitz. That is plain wrong!

Yes, he should.

[TigerVic]

Yes, he should.

No he shouldn't. In 20 years, when he's not so fresh in our minds, I think Huth would be in the low end of the top ten. He had heart, but I don't think he had the tools Offenbecher, DeWitz, and Hurst had.

[fyrewood]

No disrespect to Bobby he was a hell of a player, but apparently you never saw Offenbecher or Dewitz play.

[LakeCountyTiger]

No disrespect to Bobby he was a hell of a player, but apparently you never saw Offenbecher or Dewitz play.

Huth sort of reminded me of DeWitz a little. I think Brian was a little bigger, but both had the same kind of attitude. He ended up at Indiana U right? It seems like he did and Spielman played against him...man that was a great team

[tig62]

I think Billy Scott's name should be added to the list. His pass timing was as good or better than any Massillon QB I have seen in my lifetime. Had he not got hurt early in the 1979 Parma Padua playoff game, I believe we would of won that day and gone on to play in the championship game the next week.

[monte81]

1. Dewitz----played like a champion and made little to no mistakes
2. Offenbecker---great HS QB
3. Spencer---may have been out of position(NFL WR for 3 years) but was great athlete
4. Franklin---nothing needs to be said
5. Martin
6. Sparma--anyone who has buildings and things named for them needs to be in the top 10
7. Zwick---numbers dont lie but throw alot of passes in the offense
8. Mike Danzy---look at percentages
9. Eberhart
10. Huth

[TigerVic]

1. Dewitz----played like a champion and made little to no mistakes
2. Offenbecker---great HS QB
3. Spencer---may have been out of position(NFL WR for 3 years) but was great athlete
4. Franklin---nothing needs to be said
5. Martin
6. Sparma--anyone who has buildings and things named for them needs to be in the top 10
7. Zwick---numbers dont lie but throw alot of passes in the offense
8. Mike Danzy---look at percentages
9. Eberhart
10. Huth

Although I certainly don't agree with your rankings, Monte (esp. the positions of DeWitz, Sparma, and Zwick), you do list Mike Danzy. I really enjoyed watching Danzy scramble out of almost impossible situations and juke and run for TDs in '92-'93. He really took over in the 2nd half of many games.

[Benchboss1]

Yes, he should.


Do you REALLY believe that Huth was the 4th best quarterback in our programs entire HISTORY? I truly hope that you are joking.:wall:

[CATS44]

Its impossible for me to rate all time QBs, since the position has changed so much.

Harry Stuhldreher was one of the greatest QBs of his era, but he was more blocking back than thrower/runner. Several of PBs QBs were super, and the same for the Mather era. But if they came along today, they might not even play QB.

So I will start with Leo Strangs teams, and the best I have seen are:

1) Zwick. He is simply the best HS QB I have ever seen.
2) Dewitz. One loss in his entire career and he played on one leg as a senior.
3) Sparma. If he came along today he would be Zwick.
4) Offenbecher. He was just about as accurate as they come.
5) Franklin. Did Denny ever make a mistake? Not many QBs are designed to be the lead blocker, but Franklin did it very well when called upon.
6) Sheegog. If Massillon has a legendary QB, Dave is it. Coming from behind to beat McKinley two years in a row in what were virtual state title games puts him on my list.
7) Spencer. Spectacular senior year. Did not miss ONE pitch in the entire season. If you want an instruction tape on how to run the belly option, put together one of Willie, Jr.
8) Greg Woods. IMO the most overlooked QB in our recent history. He suffered from not playing under the greatest offensive system. 13 seconds, baby!!!
9) White. Had he played under Currence he would be ranked a lot higher.
10) Scott. He doesnt get a lot of recognition, because of who came before and after him.

There is an eleventh, but he was stuck behind Offenbecher....Ron Wright. Who knows how good he would have been for the Tigers, but he shattered all the QB records at Wooster.

[LakeCountyTiger]

Speaking of DeWitz, his daughter runs track for Miami U (ohio) 100/400m I believe. Good genes... I always thought it was funny two former QB's from Massillon ended up plying defense for Indiana... DeWitz-Safety and John Miller LB.
Here's the link off the website

http://muredhawks.cstv.com/sports/w-track/mtt/dewitz_alexia00.html

[Red50Go]

Good list CATS44. I didn't see a few of those guys in my time but Zwick, Dewitz, and Spencer def. stand out. Spencer's performance in the 100th meeting was poetry in motion. Btw, Danzy was not too shabby at that belly option either. I will hand it to Rose in that regard. We never had a great passing game but give him a QB w/ some speed and he knew how to attack the perimeter.

[obie 66]

You are forgetting Richie Cresenze, late 50's, '57-'58, All Ohio, went on to U of Kansas.:drinkem:

[mmauthor]

Have to put in a word for Mike Byelene ('35-'36) who I believe held the TD pass record until Zwick broke it. He was a great runner and passer. And the '36 team may be the second or third best Massillon team ever (1940 is #1). Don't know that I'd put Cresence among the all-time best. Of Mather's QB's I'd go with Don James (1949) and Jack Hill (1948).

[OTC TIGER]

Zwick broke Dave Irwin's record of 20 (I think)

[DAWGH8R]

Its impossible for me to rate all time QBs, since the position has changed so much.

Harry Stuhldreher was one of the greatest QBs of his era, but he was more blocking back than thrower/runner. Several of PBs QBs were super, and the same for the Mather era. But if they came along today, they might not even play QB.

So I will start with Leo Strangs teams, and the best I have seen are:

1) Zwick. He is simply the best HS QB I have ever seen.
2) Dewitz. One loss in his entire career and he played on one leg as a senior.
3) Sparma. If he came along today he would be Zwick.
4) Offenbecher. He was just about as accurate as they come.
5) Franklin. Did Denny ever make a mistake? Not many QBs are designed to be the lead blocker, but Franklin did it very well when called upon.
6) Sheegog. If Massillon has a legendary QB, Dave is it. Coming from behind to beat McKinley two years in a row in what were virtual state title games puts him on my list.
7) Spencer. Spectacular senior year. Did not miss ONE pitch in the entire season. If you want an instruction tape on how to run the belly option, put together one of Willie, Jr.
8) Greg Woods. IMO the most overlooked QB in our recent history. He suffered from not playing under the greatest offensive system. 13 seconds, baby!!!
9) White. Had he played under Currence he would be ranked a lot higher.
10) Scott. He doesnt get a lot of recognition, because of who came before and after him.

There is an eleventh, but he was stuck behind Offenbecher....Ron Wright. Who knows how good he would have been for the Tigers, but he shattered all the QB records at Wooster.

A real shame to see Matt Martin left off of this list. Shepas always said that Matt was the best "field general" that he had. Kid called almost every play his senior year. Knew more about the defensive coverages, than the kids trying to run them.

[proud to be]

A real shame to see Matt Martin left off of this list. Shepas always said that Matt was the best "field general" that he had. Kid called almost every play his senior year. Knew more about the defensive coverages, than the kids trying to run them.

Another shameless plug for your favorite coach..........


:poke:

[TigerCoach]

Another shameless plug for your favorite coach..........


:poke:

LOL!
Watch out Jay, he's a Shep basher!!

[obie 66]

Sparma pitched for Detroit. Won a playoff game that put them in the World
series which they won. Won a game in the series and went 16-4 that year. This was after departure fom Ohio State at the end of his sophomore year and his infamous disagreement with Sir Woody. There were many NFL scouts at that time that thought he would be a star in the NFL. A passing QB that went to the three yards and a cloud of dust offense. Back then he had to wait until his senior class graduated so he chose baseball. Wrong fit!:sunny:

[monte81]

A real shame to see Matt Martin left off of this list. Shepas always said that Matt was the best "field general" that he had. Kid called almost every play his senior year. Knew more about the defensive coverages, than the kids trying to run them.

Look at my list again----Martin was a beast at QB and should be on th list. Statisitically Matt is in the the top 3 all time and that is hard to debate!

[SuperBran]

Look at my list again----Martin was a beast at QB and should be on th list. Statisitically Matt is in the the top 3 all time and that is hard to debate!

i think that martin was a very good qb, but i would put huth above him.......especially if you want to go by stats.

Career rankings:

Pass attempts
2. 495 - BOBBY HUTH (297-495-12)
8. 259 - MATT MARTIN (147-259-9)

Pass completions
2. 297 - BOBBY HUTH (297-495-12)
8. 147 - MATT MARTIN (147-259-9)

Passing yards
2. 4077 - BOBBY HUTH (297-495-12)
7. 2110 - MATT MARTIN (147-259-9)

Passing TDs
2. 40 - BOBBY HUTH
5. 26 - MATT MARTIN

Passes had intercepted
3. 12 - BOBBY HUTH (297-495-12)
6. 9 - MATT MARTIN (147-259-9)

Pass completion pct (minimum 20 attempts)
2. 60.0 - BOBBY HUTH (297-495-12)
4. 56.8 - MATT MARTIN (147-259-9)

Pass efficiency (minimum 20 attempts)
3. 151.4 - MATT MARTIN (147-259-9)
4. 151.0 - BOBBY HUTH (297-495-12)

Average yards/pass (minimum 20 attempts)
4. 8.2 - BOBBY HUTH (297-495-12)
5. 8.1 - MATT MARTIN (147-259-9)

Average yards/completion (minimum 20 attempts)
5. 14.4 - MATT MARTIN (147-259-9)
6. 13.7 - BOBBY HUTH (297-495-12)

Passing yards/game (minimum 5 games)
3. 140.6 - BOBBY HUTH (29 games)
4. 131.9 - MATT MARTIN (16 games)

[monte81]

Superbran---you are comparing stats of 1 year to 2 years as the starting QB. Martin played behind Zwick for 2 years. For a one year starter his numbers are pretty hard to debate and not put him in the top 10. Huth was gritty, hard nosed, and played the tiger way but was/is not better than Martin IMO. Martin came in with big shoes to fill and did not disappoint taking us to the semis--not his fault we lost that game to WGH!

Huth was still a top 10-15 Qb however.

[SuperBran]

Superbran---you are comparing stats of 1 year to 2 years as the starting QB. Martin played behind Zwick for 2 years. For a one year starter his numbers are pretty hard to debate and not put him in the top 10. Huth was gritty, hard nosed, and played the tiger way but was/is not better than Martin IMO. Martin came in with big shoes to fill and did not disappoint taking us to the semis--not his fault we lost that game to WGH!

Huth was still a top 10-15 Qb however.

i'm not saying that martin isn't a top 10 qb. you mentioned career numbers and if you go by career numbers then huth should be ranked higher. i know that it's comparing one year to two.

if you look at each qb's first year the stats are similar:

huth:
14 games
2017 yards
18 tds
6 ints
state finals

martin:
57%
2106 yards
26 tds
9 ints
state semi-finals

i would pick huth b/c he performed very well over two seasons. his efficiency was almost identical to martin's, but he played in twice as many games. i also think that martin had a better line.

i agree that martin had big shoes to fill, but huth also had a lot of weight on his shoulders. many were calling for him to start the previous year, and he was guiding a team that had back to back losing seasons.

if you're going to put martin at 5 based on his numbers for that one season, then how the heck can you put zwick at 7?? i know you said he threw a lot of passes, but he did so for a reason.

[proud to be]

i'm not saying that martin isn't a top 10 qb. you mentioned career numbers and if you go by career numbers then huth should be ranked higher. i know that it's comparing one year to two.

if you look at each qb's first year the stats are similar:

huth:
14 games
2017 yards
18 tds
6 ints
state finals

martin:
57%
2106 yards
26 tds
9 ints
state semi-finals

i would pick huth b/c he performed very well over two seasons. his efficiency was almost identical to martin's, but he played in twice as many games. i also think that martin had a better line.

i agree that martin had big shoes to fill, but huth also had a lot of weight on his shoulders. many were calling for him to start the previous year, and he was guiding a team that had back to back losing seasons.

if you're going to put martin at 5 based on his numbers for that one season, then how the heck can you put zwick at 7?? i know you said he threw a lot of passes, but he did so for a reason.


I agree with this, and I believe Bobby is a top 5. Great points about the line, as well as the sustained efficiency over two years. Bobby may be the most underappreciated QB in recent history in Massillon. Also, as good as he was, the amazing thing to me is that football was his second sport!!

Ever see him behind the plate????

[Paul Brown]

Also, as good as he was, the amazing thing to me is that football was his second sport!!

Ever see him behind the plate????

I don't think there is a 2nd sport for Bobby.. he was even a good golfer and never played golf lol.

[Red50Go]

I dont know how you choose between a Martin, Huth or Irwin. All 3 very similar imo. Definitely cant take anything away from Huth, especially w/ his size & heart, but he probably had the lesser arm of the 3, imo. Bombs are like home runs and ally-oop dunks to me, so I am a little biased.

Bring back the bombs! :2thumbsup:

[proud to be]

I dont know how you choose between a Martin, Huth or Irwin. All 3 very similar imo. Definitely cant take anything away from Huth, especially w/ his size & heart, but he probably had the lesser arm of the 3, imo. Bombs are like home runs and ally-oop dunks to me, so I am a little biased.

Bring back the bombs! :2thumbsup:

If you've ever seen Bobby throw a runner out at 2nd from his knees, you wouldn't think this!!!

They were all very good, and very effective with the teams they played on.

[CarlE]

If you've ever seen Bobby throw a runner out at 2nd from his knees, you wouldn't think this!!!

They were all very good, and very effective with the teams they played on.


Baseball and football are two different sciences in throwing, bro. YOU of all people should know that. Although it didn't matter to John Elway.

[proud to be]

Baseball and football are two different sciences in throwing, bro. YOU of all people should know that. Although it didn't matter to John Elway.

Different muscle sets for sure, but still speaks to arm strength. The throwing motion in football, and baseball are more similar when it comes to catchers than pitchers.....

[tigerbill]

Obie 66 brings up Richie Cresence in this debate. I never got to see him play as my "friends and neighbors" gave me an all expense paid trip to the Frozen Chosen.

He was a very good QB, but I have a point of interest to relay to you.

Mather never CUT anybody because there was always a chance they would develope into a star and if my memory is correct Richie was that person.

He was a 4th stringer his junior year and made the varsity his senior year. I remember reading that in the clippings my mom sent me.

Mather's offense was mainly ground with his patented sweep the bread and butter play so while our QBs were pretty darn good they never got the recognition of (Alliance) Mel Knowlton's teams. We were lucky to get 100 yards off our passing game cause we really didn't need to.

[TigerVic]

Mather's offense was mainly ground with his patented sweep the bread and butter play so while our QBs were pretty darn good they never got the recognition of (Alliance) Mel Knowlton's teams. We were lucky to get 100 yards off our passing game cause we really didn't need to.


I believe Vince Lombardi studied Mather's sweep and eventually brought it to national prominence when he became Green Bay's head coach.

Thank you for your service in Korea, TigerBill!

[massillon catholic]

I think that ALL of the Tiger QB's were great in their own way.

[Obie Wan]

After reading through these various lists, one thing jumps out: we've had some very good QB's over the years. A lot of these guys would be the man at other schools.

[staubachtopearson88]

Another shameless plug for your favorite coach..........


:poke:

I'm assuming you aren't a Coach Shepas fan?

[proud to be]

I'm assuming you aren't a Coach Shepas fan?

You assume too much.................Why don't you just ask??

Between this assumption, and the assumption you PM'd me about, I'm not sure what your actual question is........

[Massillon7]

Bobby is not getting the respect he deserves. If you want to talk about field generals there is NONE better than Huth. Yes he was undersized, and had weaker arm then some former quarterbacks, and that drops him on the list a bit, but he made that team go. He IS a top 5 quarterback in Massillon history, and one of it's greatest on-field leaders. Did you know the first game he started his junior year he changed the very first play? He was always a step ahead.

[monte81]

Bobby is not getting the respect he deserves. If you want to talk about field generals there is NONE better than Huth. Yes he was undersized, and had weaker arm then some former quarterbacks, and that drops him on the list a bit, but he made that team go. He IS a top 5 quarterback in Massillon history, and one of it's greatest on-field leaders. Did you know the first game he started his junior year he changed the very first play? He was always a step ahead.


Bobby was good but how can you say he is top 5 in Massillon history? Anyone with a list under 60 years old or witnessed at least 30+ years of Massillon football would have a better judgement of the list. Ranking Bobby in the top 10 is an honor IMO

Denny Franklin
Zwick
Offenbecker
Dewitz
Eric White, etc,... did you watch any of them in HS or college? Everyone's list is opinion and all the records and stats are not accurate or complete in the early years. Remember we have multiple undeafeated seasons and those QB's were not pushovers.

[SuperBran]

Bobby was good but how can you say he is top 5 in Massillon history?

the same way you could list martin as one of the top 5 qbs in massillon's history............even ahead of zwick.

[DE#53]

I'm not going to rank my top ten by over all stats because a lot of these guys may not have played on "passing teams" or got to play as much as they should have for various reasons. I'm going to rank them by what they did when they got the opportunity to play.

#1 Zwick could make all the throws and called 90% of plays at the line. Saw the whole field.
#2 Dewitz perfect "run and shoot" QB. great athlete
#3 Offenbecher Very accurate. Threw nice deep ball/rainbows a receiver can run under
#4 B. Huth Gritty, could throw on the run, heart, just a true tiger.
#5 D. Franklin probably the best option QB ever from Massillon
#6 Sparma Never lost to Mck. Played at OSU and MLB
#7 M. Martin Only got 1 year because of Zwick. Was told he threw a nicer ball than Zwick by Devon Jordon. (he would know).
#8 D. Irwin Gun slinger, played with lots of confidence. spread the ball to all receivers.
#9 Hurst Strong arm, ran Owens' offense well. Beat Mck twice.
#10 Spencer Not a pure passer but was an exceptional option QB. Another Great Athlete.