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Grizzlies
02-09-2008, 08:44 PM
McCain campaigns in Kansas: Senator John McCain most likely will be the Republican nominee for President. He's not a maverick on the war — he’s President Bush’s best ally. President George Bush says that we are fighting Islamic terrorism in Iraq and John McCain says he will “Stay the course” against these “Evil people” and continue this fight against Islamic Terrorism.

He goes on to say that Iraq is the central battle ground in the fight against Radical Islamic Extremism that confronts our nation and the world. Then in his very next breath he says: There is an individual that we all know that lives in either Afghanistan or Pakistan that recruits, motivates and inspires these evil people. I tell you now, if I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will get Osama bin Laden and I will bring him to justice. I will bring him to just for what he did to the United States of America.

How can he say in one breath that you know

The man who started this war against the United States is Osama bin Laden.
Osama bin Laden lives in either Afghanistan or Pakistan.
That Osama bin Laden recruits, motivates and inspires the evil people terrorizing Iraq.
That Osama bin Laden is the base, the roots of the terrorism that has on many occasions attacked the United States:

Examples….

World Trade Center 1993 bombings: The attack was planned by a group of conspirators including Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmad Ajaj. They received their financing from al-Qaeda.

The Khobar Towers bombing: According to the United States, a group of terrorists who wanted to remove Americans from Saudi Arabia organized the attack. No known group officially claimed responsibility.

In the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings: The attacks, linked to local members of the al Qaeda terrorist network headed by Osama bin Laden, brought bin Laden and al Qaeda to international attention for the first time, and resulted in the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation placing bin Laden on its Ten Most Wanted list.

The USS Cole bombing: Both the Clinton Administration and the Bush Administration have been criticized for failing to respond militarily to the attack on the USS Cole before September 11, 2001. The 9-11 Commission Report cites one source who said in February 2001, "bin Laden complained frequently that the United States had not yet attacked in response to the Cole.. Bin Laden wanted the United States to attack, and if it did not he would launch something bigger." On December 21, 2000 the CIA had made a "preliminary judgment" that "al Qaeda appeared to have supported the attack".

September 11, 2001: Al Qaeda's origins date back to 1979 when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Soon after the invasion, Osama bin Laden traveled to Afghanistan and with American government assistance, helped organize Arab mujahadeen, creating Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK), to resist the Soviets. In 1989, as the Soviets withdrew, MAK was transformed into Al Qaeda, as a "rapid reaction force" in jihad against governments across the Muslim world. Under guidance of Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama became more radical. In 1996, Bin Laden issued his first fatwa which called for "American soldiers to get out of Saudi Arabia". A second fatwa, issued by bin Laden in 1998, "directed his followers to kill Americans anywhere”. In the fatwa, bin Laden outlined his objections to American foreign policy towards Israel, as well as the continued presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War. The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks upon the United States was formed by the United States government and was commonly called the 9/11 Commission. It released its report on July 22, 2004, concluding that the attacks were conceived and implemented by members of al-Qaeda. To date, Bin Laden has not yet been formally indicted for the attack.

After all of this, how can you say that the United States of America must “Stay the course” in Iraq? When you know we can find Osama bin Laden in either Afghanistan or Pakistan, you know he is the one fueling the terrorism in Iraq by recruiting, motivating and inspiring the evil people terrorizing Iraq and the rest of the world, why in the world would you stay the course in Iraq? Why are we not going after Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and or Pakistan?

I’m insulted as an American to hear another Republican say “I tell you now, if I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will get Osama bin Laden and I will bring him to justice. I will bring him to justice for what he did to the United States of America”. I heard this line of crap 7 years ago from George Bush and I’m insulted to be sitting here again 7 years later and hearing it again from another Republican running for President.

We need to stop fighting Osama bin Laden’s recruited, motivated and inspired evil people in Iraq and start fighting Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and or Pakistan.

Indiana95
02-10-2008, 10:02 AM
Couldn't agree more, but goodluck convincing some of our geographically impaired colleagues here on MP.com. The flock who followed W. are looking for a new shepard in McCain. It's quite embarrassing....but what are you going to do....argue until you're blue in the face? Hopefully, more voters will disagree with this nonsense and elect a leader who will take us in a new direction instead of repeating the same ole rhetoric.

dataintsmiff
02-10-2008, 04:38 PM
And I suppose total withdrawal is the answer? LOL

Grizzlies
02-10-2008, 05:28 PM
And I suppose total withdrawal is the answer? LOL

No, not total withdraw but we must start pulling them out to push pressure on the Iraqi government to pick up the pace. We continue as peace keepers but you tell the Iraqi government that we are leaving, you better start getting yourself up to speed real fast. We are not your Iraqi police, we are US military. We will help but we are leaving. We cannot tell the Iraqi that we are going to be here for the next 100 years. What kind of an idiot is McCain? Tell them that and they will never get their military built. They will simply depend on the US military to fight their war.

Grizzlies
02-10-2008, 05:30 PM
And I suppose total withdrawal is the answer? LOL

What troops we withdraw from Iraq we should send to Afghanistan or Pakistan. That way we can pick up where we left off pursuing bin Laden and if all heck breaks loose in Iraq we are close by.

npaflas
02-10-2008, 05:36 PM
I don't understand why we should be over there two. It it not a war when someboby hold's a bomb to kill himself and other's. The next leader should worrie about us here in the good USA not Iraq. Before we good down quick and everything get's out of hand.

section3
02-10-2008, 06:48 PM
all the terrorist examples you gave were prior to 9/11. i guess if clinton would have done something about it then we wouldn't be in the situation we are now. also remember clinton is the one who downsized our military and cut spending. now we are trying to fight on 2 fronts and recruit to build our military back up. i'm not a mcain fanatic but i sure do not want another clinton or obama in the white house during this fight with terrorists.

Grizzlies
02-10-2008, 10:33 PM
all the terrorist examples you gave were prior to 9/11. i guess if clinton would have done something about it then we wouldn't be in the situation we are now. also remember clinton is the one who downsized our military and cut spending. now we are trying to fight on 2 fronts and recruit to build our military back up. i'm not a mcain fanatic but i sure do not want another clinton or obama in the white house during this fight with terrorists.


Did you not read my post? Obviously not! Read the post then try to make an intelligent reply.

My post was to point out that our government knows very well that Osama bin Laden is not in Iraq but in fact is in Afghanistan or Pakistan but yet they want to continue to fight terrorism in Iraq. The terrorism that has effected the United States the most EVER, was thanks to Osama bin Laden. The Republicans say that we are safer today then we were 7 years ago. If we are not fighting the man who has personally attacked the United States (i.e. all of the examples listed) then how are we safer? As your leading candidate has so eloquently said, he knows that Osama bin Laden is in either Afghanistan or Pakistan. He goes on to say that he is the one fueling the terrorism in Iraq by recruiting, motivating and inspiring the evil people terrorizing Iraq and the rest of the world. Then why, why in the world would you stay the course in Iraq if you know the source of this evil, Osama bin Laden is not in Iraq?

Think about it and then make a good post.

reofan82
02-11-2008, 05:33 PM
I think McCain may mean continuing with the surge in Iraq. Also, we have been putting increasing pressure on the government over there, but we do need to keep turning up the heat on them to get it together. I don't think the next president will be able to withdraw our troops anytime soon. The thought makes for good political sound bites but is not practical. Whether we should have invaded or not is irrelevant. We did and now we have to finish the job with the minimum loss of life as possible. We will need to stay in Iraq to see the Iraqi government seated and functioning. Withdrawl should be slow and gradual. The less troops we have there, the more dangerous it will be for the final troops to remain until it is their time to go. To make withdrawl as safe as possible, we pretty much have to put down most terror activity. This will take several years. I think if we ever get Osama, it will happen by special ops,etc, rather than a large troop presence.

Grizzlies
02-11-2008, 06:27 PM
When McCain says stay the course I assume he means continue what we have been doing but I may be wrong. Will it take several years? I have been hearing this for 7 years. I just hope the war in Iraq doesn't end up like our deficit. We will get control of it eventually. Years and years later we are still singing the same song; we will get control of it but never do. If we stay the course, we will all have great grand children over there fighting the war on terrorism and be no further then we are today. We are nothing more to the Iraqi’s then a military police and we have got to put an end to this as soon as possible. We have got to give them a deadline to get their act together. Put more pressure on them? I think we need to put their feet in the fire and tell them, times up! Get it together because we are leaving soon.

reofan82
02-11-2008, 06:59 PM
We did spend years without an effective strategy on Iraq. It seems all the planning was done on the invasion and early days occupation. For too many years the plan was "stay the course" in Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld should have been fired long before he was. The surge was the best/most effective idea in years. I wonder what the situation would be like today had we begun with the same amount of troops as we used in the surge. Basically, this is the number generals wanted to use at the start, but Rumsfeld disagreed and we went with less. John McCain was the only Republican who called for Rumsfeld's firing years ago, and many in the party were critical of his stance, but it turned out he was right.

section3
02-11-2008, 07:40 PM
how long should we stay the course and leave troops in kosovo?? this is all just a military police action also. i remember my briefing on kosovo and clinton's speech was we would be there for 2 years. maybe we should pull these troops out and send them to afghanistan. by no means do i think things are perfect in iraq but pulling out would accomplish nothing at this point. in fact things are going well right now. i just spent a couple of days with guys from my unit that were there for the last year. when good things are happening the press is nowhere to be found.

as far as afghanistan goes a troop surge would not accomplish a whole lot. the mountains between afghan and pakistan is were the enemy is located. bombing does nothing and this terrain is a waste land. a story i saw the other day said in these mountains are about 1 million armed men with no idea by anyone who's side they may be on.

American Eagle
02-12-2008, 06:20 AM
Did you not read my post? Obviously not! Read the post then try to make an intelligent reply.

My post was to point out that our government knows very well that Osama bin Laden is not in Iraq but in fact is in Afghanistan or Pakistan but yet they want to continue to fight terrorism in Iraq. The terrorism that has effected the United States the most EVER, was thanks to Osama bin Laden. The Republicans say that we are safer today then we were 7 years ago. If we are not fighting the man who has personally attacked the United States (i.e. all of the examples listed) then how are we safer? As your leading candidate has so eloquently said, he knows that Osama bin Laden is in either Afghanistan or Pakistan. He goes on to say that he is the one fueling the terrorism in Iraq by recruiting, motivating and inspiring the evil people terrorizing Iraq and the rest of the world. Then why, why in the world would you stay the course in Iraq if you know the source of this evil, Osama bin Laden is not in Iraq?

Think about it and then make a good post.

GIT-R-DONE!

American Eagle
02-12-2008, 06:21 AM
When McCain says stay the course I assume he means continue what we have been doing but I may be wrong. Will it take several years? I have been hearing this for 7 years. I just hope the war in Iraq doesn't end up like our deficit. We will get control of it eventually. Years and years later we are still singing the same song; we will get control of it but never do. If we stay the course, we will all have great grand children over there fighting the war on terrorism and be no further then we are today. We are nothing more to the Iraqi’s then a military police and we have got to put an end to this as soon as possible. We have got to give them a deadline to get their act together. Put more pressure on them? I think we need to put their feet in the fire and tell them, times up! Get it together because we are leaving soon.

DAMN LIBERALS!

Grizzlies
02-12-2008, 09:12 AM
as far as afghanistan goes a troop surge would not accomplish a whole lot. the mountains between afghan and pakistan is were the enemy is located. bombing does nothing and this terrain is a waste land. a story i saw the other day said in these mountains are about 1 million armed men with no idea by anyone who's side they may be on.

What was your source of information for this? I’m curious.

American Eagle
02-13-2008, 07:06 AM
What was your source of information for this? I’m curious.

THE NATIONAL INQUIRER, PIMP!:vbiker:

Grizzlies
02-17-2008, 10:16 AM
THE NATIONAL INQUIRER, PIMP!:vbiker:

That sounds about right!!! :rockon:

dataintsmiff
02-18-2008, 07:08 PM
Git-R-Done!!, and then come home!

section3
02-18-2008, 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by section3 [Only Registered Users Can See Links.Click Here to Register]]
as far as afghanistan goes a troop surge would not accomplish a whole lot. the mountains between afghan and pakistan is were the enemy is located. bombing does nothing and this terrain is a waste land. a story i saw the other day said in these mountains are about 1 million armed men with no idea by anyone who's side they may be on.

What was your source of information for this? I’m curious.



i saw this on a documentary a couple of weeks ago but was flipping channels at the time so i'm not sure what channel it was. i did do a little research though on the subject since you asked the question and there is a lot of info out there. do a search for FATA which is the region between afghanistan and pakistan. this is the mountain range i was referring too. this region is made up of 7 tribes home to about 3 million people and a hide out for the taliban. in one report i found it stated that carrying firearms is customary. so the point of my original post was that troops in this area would not do much except set off a powder keg. the region is not easily entered and its a no mans land between afghanistan and pakistan. this is where the enemy is.

dataintsmiff
02-19-2008, 08:56 PM
I believe that has been stated before on numerous occasions when the NFL Player Pat Tillman died, I believe Fox News did a story on that region...Nice Post...:thumbsup: