School Board Candidate Football Views

[MWEINBERG]

Last night, at the Boys and Girls Club Midget Football Banquet, I had the honor of recieving a plaque for my involvement as an asst. coach for the Massillon White coached by former Tiger, Bob Dunwiddy. I consider my experience with kids as a youth coach in football, baseball and basketball in the various leagues in Massillon the key factor in my decision to run for School Board. At the event, an active Booster Club member approached me with the knowledge that there were some people who were unfamiliar with my views about Tiger Football. Though I am a member of the Touchdown Club and close friends with many active football supporters, I understood the importance of his remarks. WHERE I STAND...A) For 18 years I have been a season ticket holder sitting in section 3 with my Father-in-Law, Tom Kimmins, a member of 3 State Title teams under Coach Mather and right in front of family friend Dewey Knight. I would say that I have become well versed in Tiger history and tradition. B) I intend on taking lessons learned on the field about hard work, discipline and team work into the classrooms. C) I believe Tiger Football and it's traditions are part of the fabric of our community and will fight to keep it strong and Independent. I realize that there are serious issues that need to be addressed concerning education and athletics in our district. If I wasn't confident that I could make a difference I wouldn't be running. To those who fear the effort it will take to get the job done, I would simply say, give me the ball. Then lead, follow or get the heck out of my way. Tigers don't quit when things get tough, they fight harder.
Marshall Weinberg, Massillon School Board Candidate (TIG...)

[massillon catholic]

Last night, at the Boys and Girls Club Midget Football Banquet, I had the honor of recieving a plaque for my involvement as an asst. coach for the Massillon White coached by former Tiger, Bob Dunwiddy. I consider my experience with kids as a youth coach in football, baseball and basketball in the various leagues in Massillon the key factor in my decision to run for School Board. At the event, an active Booster Club member approached me with the knowledge that there were some people who were unfamiliar with my views about Tiger Football. Though I am a member of the Touchdown Club and close friends with many active football supporters, I understood the importance of his remarks. WHERE I STAND...A) For 18 years I have been a season ticket holder sitting in section 3 with my Father-in-Law, Tom Kimmins, a member of 3 State Title teams under Coach Mather and right in front of family friend Dewey Knight. I would say that I have become well versed in Tiger history and tradition. B) I intend on taking lessons learned on the field about hard work, discipline and team work into the classrooms. C) I believe Tiger Football and it's traditions are part of the fabric of our community and will fight to keep it strong and Independent. I realize that there are serious issues that need to be addressed concerning education and athletics in our district. If I wasn't confident that I could make a difference I wouldn't be running. To those who fear the effort it will take to get the job done, I would simply say, give me the ball. Then lead, follow or get the heck out of my way. Tigers don't quit when things get tough, they fight harder.
Marshall Weinberg, Massillon School Board Candidate (TIG...)

Who would be your choice for head coach once Stacy is gone?
And, in the event Stacy didnt find a job real soon, would you vote to renew his contract?

[Tiger54]

Who would be your choice for head coach once Stacy is gone?
And, in the event Stacy didnt find a job real soon, would you vote to renew his contract?
Since this article has come out in the paper making everyone realize that he will leave at the first opportunity that he has, why on earth would we be stupid enough to renew his contract? When he says that having the Massillon job has begun to affect his family, and he can't have that---you don't wait until he quits on you. You non-renew and immediately look for a very qualified replacement. Why would we wait until he backs us into the corner with a late resignation? There are a lot of very good underclassmen on this team--why would you do that to them?

[Kamd50]

Mr. Weinberg,

So glad to see that you have posted on these public forums using your own name. I would love to see the other candidates do the same.

Many of us feel that VB among others, has got to go. Where do you stand on the present BOE members and why?

Also, what do you feel about a head coach being employed in Massillon with the definate knowledge that it was not going to be a long term committemt on the coach's part?

thank you

[MWEINBERG]

Picking a Football coach is not something that can be made off the top of your head. We need to put togther a group of people with the knowledge to uncover and effectively research the issue. What I do believe is that whomever the choice is, they should possess a clear history of success and an old school attitude about handling young men. Kids need strong leadership.

As far as keeping a Coach for the sole reason he can't find another job...
I think that it would be a shame to entrust our team to anyone for any reason other than what is best for our program. M

[OTC TIGER]

Since this article has come out in the paper making everyone realize that he will leave at the first opportunity that he has, why on earth would we be stupid enough to renew his contract? When he says that having the Massillon job has begun to affect his family, and he can't have that---you don't wait until he quits on you. You non-renew and immediately look for a very qualified replacement. Why would we wait until he backs us into the corner with a late resignation? There are a lot of very good underclassmen on this team--why would you do that to them?

Tremendous post 54...Let's get it over with...We will be hosting some very
high profile playoff games in the next few weeks..there will be plenty of auditioning going on for our coaching position..I for one will be watching with
more than just casual interest.

[monte81]

Some of us who do not teach would like the oppurtunity to be assistants on the tiger staff!!! I want in/back to the program---NOW!! I know I can help these kids reach full potential on and off the field. Sometimes the best coaches are right in the area. Some of us want to be home in Massillon and raise our kids in our city.

[man2man]

I wonder with all the serious issues for the city of Massillon, is how a football coach should be chosen a primary concern? I'm more interested in bringing more jobs to Massillon than worried about this one job (that council doesn't choose anyway).

By the way, the football coach's job is not currently open.

[LakeCountyTiger]

Some of us who do not teach would like the oppurtunity to be assistants on the tiger staff!!! I want in/back to the program---NOW!! I know I can help these kids reach full potential on and off the field. Sometimes the best coaches are right in the area. Some of us want to be home in Massillon and raise our kids in our city.

Good enough for me.... your in!

[xtiger]

I wonder with all the serious issues for the city of Massillon, is how a football coach should be chosen a primary concern? I'm more interested in bringing more jobs to Massillon than worried about this one job (that council doesn't choose anyway).

By the way, the football coach's job is not currently open.

It's the Board of Education seat that we're talking about.

Your concern is with city government.

Get on the same page!

[Tiger54]

Picking a Football coach is not something that can be made off the top of your head. We need to put togther a group of people with the knowledge to uncover and effectively research the issue. What I do believe is that whomever the choice is, they should possess a clear history of success and an old school attitude about handling young men. Kids need strong leadership.

As far as keeping a Coach for the sole reason he can't find another job...
I think that it would be a shame to entrust our team to anyone for any reason other than what is best for our program. M
Thank you for coming on here. I have already had a long phone conversation with Mr. Weinberg in the past, completely unrelated to athletics. He is a very good candidate and has excellent ideas for our academic program too. I agree with another poster on here---VB needs to go. Gee, I wonder how her husband got such a great job with the school system! We need to stop that kind of stuff from going on. We have another Board member who used to talk a lot about what he would do on the Board and after he got on there, you never heard another peep from him. I can hardly believe that he is up for reelection---what contribution has he made to the Board while on there? We need someone strong who will not only help address our athletic problems BUT ALSO our proficiency scores and other academic problems. As far as the coaching situation, we need people on the interview committee who have not only contributed to the program but who are well aware and appreciative of our history. If a coaching candidate is not a product of the Tiger system, then he should certainly be aware and want to contribute to it. You cannot turn your head away from someone who is NOT a Massillonian---if that was the case, we would have never had Chuck Mather and a number of other great ones. As you know, our new Tiger Band director is not a Massillon grad, but he certainly quickly learned the history and he is wonderful!

[CarlE]

I wonder with all the serious issues for the city of Massillon, is how a football coach should be chosen a primary concern? I'm more interested in bringing more jobs to Massillon than worried about this one job (that council doesn't choose anyway).

By the way, the football coach's job is not currently open.

Go away. It's a freaking SCHOOL BOARD postion we're talking about here. Although, I DO agree with your premise about priorities.

Mr. Weinberg, congratulations on your decision to run for school board and thank you from all members on here for having the intestinal fortitude (guts for you board members that hide) to come on here in a public forum and open yourself up to exposure and questions. I salute your effort.

You guys piss me off sometimes. With all the problems going on in our school system the first thing you talk about is a freaking football coach who's position isn't even OPEN YET? Get your damn priorities straight, people.

Mr. Weinberg, congratulations again and best of luck to you in your pursuit of a board seat. Hell, I hope they replace ALL of them with new blood.

[xtiger]

Marshall, as you already know, our current administration has been pushing for an alignment with the Federal League. The Federal League debate is a
VERY heated topic amongst Tiger fans, with the vast majority opposed
to the idea for various reasons.

Where do you stand?

[Kamd50]

They can't replace all of them with new blood, as there are not enough new people running to do so.

IMO, our academics and atheltic programs go hand in hand. Striving for what is best for each is what will make us a well rounded school system that will attract newcomers as well as persuade present residents to stay here.

[mike_da_man13]

Go away. It's a freaking SCHOOL BOARD postion we're talking about here. Although, I DO agree with your premise about priorities.

Mr. Weinberg, congratulations on your decision to run for school board and thank you from all members on here for having the intestinal fortitude (guts for you board members that hide) to come on here in a public forum and open yourself up to exposure and questions. I salute your effort.

You guys piss me off sometimes. With all the problems going on in our school system the first thing you talk about is a freaking football coach who's position isn't even OPEN YET? Get your damn priorities straight, people.

Mr. Weinberg, congratulations again and best of luck to you in your pursuit of a board seat. Hell, I hope they replace ALL of them with new blood.

but its a massillon football forum and it is a kind of a big topic around here. I do agree that academics should take priority over football every time though.

[Mass6]

Some of us who do not teach would like the oppurtunity to be assistants on the tiger staff!!! I want in/back to the program---NOW!! I know I can help these kids reach full potential on and off the field. Sometimes the best coaches are right in the area. Some of us want to be home in Massillon and raise our kids in our city.

I'm with you Monte. I would love to work with Hack with the DB's, or even the younger kids for that matter, I just don't have a degree in education. My degree is in Business and IT.

[CarlE]

I'm with you Monte. I would love to work with Hack with the DB's, or even the younger kids for that matter, I just don't have a degree in education. My degree is in Business and IT.

Shouldn't matter what your degree is in. I PROMISE you kids would be better off with me teaching them about the ways of life that some of these yahoos that are in the classroom today.

[massillon catholic]

Some of us who do not teach would like the oppurtunity to be assistants on the tiger staff!!! I want in/back to the program---NOW!! I know I can help these kids reach full potential on and off the field. Sometimes the best coaches are right in the area. Some of us want to be home in Massillon and raise our kids in our city.

Monte: make up your mind. On the jena 6 thread you were going to opposite direction. You are starting to sound like Hillary flip-flopping.

[massillon catholic]

By the way, the football coach's job is not currently open.

Oh, its open alright. You can bet on it!

[massillon catholic]

Picking a Football coach is not something that can be made off the top of your head. We need to put togther a group of people with the knowledge to uncover and effectively research the issue. What I do believe is that whomever the choice is, they should possess a clear history of success and an old school attitude about handling young men. Kids need strong leadership.

As far as keeping a Coach for the sole reason he can't find another job...
I think that it would be a shame to entrust our team to anyone for any reason other than what is best for our program. M


Mr. Weinberg: First, thanks for the courage to come on here with your real name as somone else has already mentioned. My question is, would you be in favor of putting together another hiring committee comprised of ex-players, coaches etc. and then take their recommedation and hire who they recommend? In the past the committee has recommended great coaches only to be railroaded by the superintendent and school board.

[Mass6]

Shouldn't matter what your degree is in. I PROMISE you kids would be better off with me teaching them about the ways of life that some of these yahoos that are in the classroom today.

I agree with you 100%. I learned many lessons off my coach at MUC. Coach Woj had us ready for every game by Wednesday, and Thurs/Fri just drilled it in even more. This taught me that if you work hard and really pay attention to detail, and keep working even when you think you know everything has made my professional life a successful one. These kids need direction, not buddies.

[massillon catholic]

Marshall, as you already know, our current administration has been pushing for an alignment with the Federal League. The Federal League debate is a
VERY heated topic amongst Tiger fans, with the vast majority opposed
to the idea for various reasons.

Where do you stand?

I think every candidate should state their position on the Federal League prior to the election. Its a simple yes or no.

[Red50Go]

If I was on the screening committee, and I wanted to prepare myself, personally I would interview Coach Reno at Steubenville - and take good notes. What he has done for Steubenville, a community so similar to ours (harder hit actually), is EVERYTHING we could hope for. I am serious, we could learn alot.

[monte81]

Monte: make up your mind. On the jena 6 thread you were going to opposite direction. You are starting to sound like Hillary flip-flopping.

What are you talking about? My kids situation and where HE DECIDES to play HS Football is totally differant from me and that is not my only son. My son does not have to play at Massillon for me to coach at Massillon. It is the current state of the program is why I said what I said and it is his decision to live with me or his mother! Dont get it twisted dude---I AM A TIGER UNTIL I DIE! It is no secret that if a job comes open to bring me back to massillon I will be in the WHS weight room every chance I get to help the tigers--my son playing or not!

[Kamd50]

Mr Weinberg, could you please address the questions that have been put to you on this forum so far concerning the present BOE members and the Fed????

[Obie Wan]

If I may: I don't think it's quite fair (or prudent) to expect a candidate offer a potentially critical evaluation of other board members. If he wins, he will have to work with these people. The relationship will be a lot more productive if it's not contentious from the get-go.

[massillon catholic]

What are you talking about? My kids situation and where HE DECIDES to play HS Football is totally differant from me and that is not my only son. My son does not have to play at Massillon for me to coach at Massillon. It is the current state of the program is why I said what I said and it is his decision to live with me or his mother! Dont get it twisted dude---I AM A TIGER UNTIL I DIE! It is no secret that if a job comes open to bring me back to massillon I will be in the WHS weight room every chance I get to help the tigers--my son playing or not!

OK, got it.

[Kamd50]

I disagree, he obviously feels that he is better qualified than someone who is already on the board, and I would like to know why. Isn't that what politicians do when they run for any kind of an office? It is not unfair to ask any of them to state publicly what their positions are and why they think they are better than a b and c. And as far as answering the Fed question, how is that an unfair question? Unless he is for it, of course.

My guess would be that if he has disapproving opinions of some of the BOE members, and they him, it is probably already known to both sides. But what about us? We as voters are the ones who need some honest answers around here.

I need more than a few random flyers in the mail and fancy signs posted throughout Massillon to help me make an educated decision on who I should vote for. I would also like to ask what Mr. Weinberg proposes to be done as far as improving our schools and academic scores?

[Obie Wan]

I disagree, he obviously feels that he is better qualified than someone who is already on the board, and I would like to know why. Isn't that what politicians do when they run for any kind of an office? It is not unfair to ask any of them to state publicly what their positions are and why they think they are better than a b and c. And as far as answering the Fed question, how is that an unfair question? Unless he is for it, of course.

My guess would be that if he has disapproving opinions of some of the BOE members, and they him, it is probably already known to both sides. But what about us? We as voters are the ones who need some honest answers around here.

I need more than a few random flyers in the mail and fancy signs posted throughout Massillon to help me make an educated decision on who I should vote for. I would also like to ask what Mr. Weinberg proposes to be done as far as improving our schools and academic scores?

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I might have been. My point is that there are ways to do this that frame the discussion as disagreement on the issues rather than personal disapproval. Of course, when one of those issues is nepotism...

I do think that it's important for a candidate to draw a distinction between himself and others. I'd really like to hear all of the candidates give opinions on some of the issues that my crop up. For example: do they favor or oppose the plan to replace the elementary schools? I'd also like to hear the incumbents explain how they lost the first MMS principal because they failed to present him with a contract after offering him the job.

I've heard very little from any of the candidates regarding concrete positions. But then, it's kind of hard to know what they're thinking when two of the incumbents (Pribich and Becherucci) didn't even bother to attend the public Q&A session.

[massillon catholic]

But then, it's kind of hard to know what they're thinking when two of the incumbents (Pribich and Becherucci) didn't even bother to attend the public Q&A session.


Wasn't Pribich the only board member to vote against hiring Stacy? I'm thinking the vote was 4-1.

[Obie Wan]

Wasn't Pribich the only board member to vote against hiring Stacy? I'm thinking the vote was 4-1.
I don't think Pribich voted against Stacy, but he did not think that Stacy was the candidate who should be hired. That is, I think Pribich voted for Stacy in the end for the sake of appearances.

[austinsm11]

I don't think Pribich voted against Stacy, but he did not think that Stacy was the candidate who should be hired. That is, I think Pribich voted for Stacy in the end for the sake of appearances.

On many decisions, after an initial vote, I was thinking that they come back with a 5-0 (or however many board members there are) vote so that it doesn't look like anyone was in disagreement.

[Kamd50]

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I might have been. My point is that there are ways to do this that frame the discussion as disagreement on the issues rather than personal disapproval. Of course, when one of those issues is nepotism...

I do think that it's important for a candidate to draw a distinction between himself and others. I'd really like to hear all of the candidates give opinions on some of the issues that my crop up. For example: do they favor or oppose the plan to replace the elementary schools? I'd also like to hear the incumbents explain how they lost the first MMS principal because they failed to present him with a contract after offering him the job.

I've heard very little from any of the candidates regarding concrete positions. But then, it's kind of hard to know what they're thinking when two of the incumbents (Pribich and Becherucci) didn't even bother to attend the public Q&A session.

Very good points. It seems to me that the same old problem always ends up being that we find things out AFTER people are elected into a position rather than before.

[CarlE]

Mr Weinberg, could you please address the questions that have been put to you on this forum so far concerning the present BOE members and the Fed????

Are you kidding me? This is what you want a future board member to address? His opinion of other board members and what he thinks about the Fed? Unbelievable. People you BETTER find some different priorities or your school system is going to go to hell faster than it already is.

[Mass6]

Are you kidding me? This is what you want a future board member to address? His opinion of other board members and what he thinks about the Fed? Unbelievable. People you BETTER find some different priorities or your school system is going to go to hell faster than it already is.

Agreed!!!!

[Kamd50]

That is not the only thing I asked him to address. Yes, I would much rather the candidates keep their true feelings hidden until after the election so that everyone can complain after it is too late.

[Kamd50]

I also believe that Mr. Blosser is doing a fine job and heading in the right direction. Education is a priority in my household. That is why all of my children have and are doing well. The education is there for the taking in MC Schools, but the parents need to be the catalyst.

[massillon catholic]

I don't think Pribich voted against Stacy, but he did not think that Stacy was the candidate who should be hired. That is, I think Pribich voted for Stacy in the end for the sake of appearances.

Thanks for the clarification. Isnt that sorta like I voted for the war before I voted against it or vice-versa?

[CarlE]

That is not the only thing I asked him to address. Yes, I would much rather the candidates keep their true feelings hidden until after the election so that everyone can complain after it is too late.

I'm not asking him to keep his opinions hidden. I just want his opinions on what is really relevant in a school system known, not what he thinks of Sally or whether or not we should join the Fed for God's sake. I'm more worried about association to be quite honest.

[Kamd50]

If so many people are apparently so unhappy with the job that certain BOE members are doing, do you not think that it is important for a potential candidate to state where he stands on the subject?

I also trust that most Massillon voters are not shallow enough to base their vote soley on the matter of whether a candidate is pro or con for the Fed league. Therefore, I see no reason as to why such a simple question should not be asked or would not be answered. Just for the record, I would like to know in adding up all the positives and negatives of a candidate, and I am sure that loads of others would like to know also, whether they admit it or not. It's just a simple pro or con question.

I also have yet to receive an answer to what he would propose to do for our academics.

[Tiger54]

If so many people are apparently so unhappy with the job that certain BOE members are doing, do you not think that it is important for a potential candidate to state where he stands on the subject?

I also trust that most Massillon voters are not shallow enough to base their vote soley on the matter of whether a candidate is pro or con for the Fed league. Therefore, I see no reason as to why such a simple question should not be asked or would not be answered. Just for the record, I would like to know in adding up all the positives and negatives of a candidate, and I am sure that loads of others would like to know also, whether they admit it or not. It's just a simple pro or con question.

I also have yet to receive an answer to what he would propose to do for our academics.
If you see his ad in the paper, he addresses the proficiency and ACT score problems---which is more than you can get the other candidates to discuss. He realizes that we have a serious problem. He also addresses the fact that the Massillon people support (financially) our students very well in comparison to other school districts and that we should expect better results than we are presently getting. I have been sick of the "we are getting betting each time" lame excuses that the past administration continually gave us. For many years, I asked the administration to address the fact that Massillon has not had a National Merit Scholar for ages. It ties in with the academic situation.

[Kamd50]

I am grateful for the response 54, truely. But seeing as how Mr.Weinberg has been online here many times, it is disappointing that he didn't take the time to respond himself. But thanks just the same.

[CATS44]

Candidates usually address different constituencies as they traverse the campaign trail, and speak to the concerns of each group.

This is a forum that centers mainly on the football program. One of the concerns of this forum is Massillons status as an independent vs Massillon joining the Fed.

While carle is right that there are other more important academic concerns, joining the Fed will have a huge impact on the total athletic program. Some feel that the impact will be bad. Some feel that it will be hugely successful.

IMO it is certainly a question to be asked of each candidate, and a question to be answered.

The question has been asked. The question has yet to be answered.

[TigerLily]

It all pretty much goes hand in hand. Academics and sports. We really do need to first know where he stands on bringing up the academic levels and other issues surrounding our schools.

But, it’s also important in Massillon to know where the football is heading. It’s a part of the whole fiber of the town and school. We need to know his positions.

After all, when is the best time to pass a school levy??? After we beat McKinley.

I spoke with Mr. Weinberg at the stadium and he really does seem like he is concerned and ready to work hard for the schools. He also seems like a person who could connect with other Board members.

[flaboi7]

OMG finally someone spoke the truth.. this town is more wirried who to hire as our football coach yet we have only 3000 people who vote for mayor.. a mayor who which brings in jobs that really dont bring in more families or high profile jobs to massillon.. ITS TIME people realize that if we get REAT PAYING jobs to massillon, it will bring in families which mean more and better potiential football players COMMON SENSE PEOPLE

[Kamd50]

Not true at all as being "more" concerned. Nevertheless, concerned. And maybe even more actually, concerned about "by whom or how" the hiring process is being conducted.

No one on this board or website even brought up the issue. The thread was started by one of the candidates himself, Mr. Weinberg. He entitled this thread "School Board Candidate Football Views ".......thus that IS the topic of this particular thread.

[Marie]

So, Mr Weinburg, some questions have been posted. Do you have any answers on the eve of the election??

[Spize]

I wonder with all the serious issues for the city of Massillon, is how a football coach should be chosen a primary concern? I'm more interested in bringing more jobs to Massillon than worried about this one job (that council doesn't choose anyway).

By the way, the football coach's job is not currently open.


If you want to get technical, it is currently open for new year. Stacy to this point has a contract that ends this school year. He has not yet been renewed for next year and he should not assume it will be there as a back-up in case the college jobs he is trying for are not there.

That is my problem, is that this job is clearly a worst-case scenario for him. The Massillon job should NEVER be "if I cannot get any other job".

[Obie Wan]

I also have yet to receive an answer to what he would propose to do for our academics.
Let's put that in context. Both Miller and Becherucci voted to keep Al Hennon as Super even though the schools should scant improvement during his tenure.

Do you really think that Weinberg could be more indifferent to academics than that?

Do you want another example? When interviewing candidates to replace Hennon, Lexington's Superintendent (and WHS alum) applied for the job. Even though Lexington has received perfect scores on the state report card, he didn't get a second interview. The Board apparently didn't like his position on responsibility and accountability within the district.

Or try this: the incumbents who are running were part of the Board which lost the original principal for MMS because they still hadn't offered him a contract 4 months after naming him to the position.

The question here isn't how Weinberg would be better - it's how could he possibly be worse?

[CATS44]

The problem is that when you ask the tough questions, you cant find a candidate who will answer them. Case in point, this thread.

They all seem to want you to vote for a pig in a poke.

No thanks.

I will vote for Mr Pribich.

I will NOT vote for Mr Weinberg.

As for football in this town...

It may be wrong headed, it may be strange, it may even be silly, but it IS a political fact of life. How goes the football program, so goes the levies and bond issues. You may not like that fact, but you had better not ignore it.

Also, while few people can actually view what goes on within the schools themselves, and because of that have little insight into the success or lack of success of the individual decisions made by the BOE and administration, everybody sees the results of decisons made in regards to the football program....and make their judgements accordingly.

There are three ways for a school system to attain funding...

1) Tax revenue, whether state or local.
2) Grant monies.
3) Revenue from athletic events, and in Massillon that means football. And winning football creates a lot more revenue than losing football.

[tig62]

Let's put that in context. Both Miller and Becherucci voted to keep Al Hennon as Super even though the schools should scant improvement during his tenure.


That fact alone would convince me not to vote for either one on them.

[Obie Wan]

The problem is that when you ask the tough questions, you cant find a candidate who will answer them. Case in point, this thread.

They all seem to want you to vote for a pig in a poke.

No thanks.

Given what I've just cited, it seems that the current BOE is not an unknown quantity.

I've yet to hear anyone argue that is a positive recommendation for them.

It may be wrong headed, it may be strange, it may even be silly, but it IS a political fact of life. How goes the football program, so goes the levies and bond issues. You may not like that fact, but you had better not ignore it.
Well, let's talk turkey, then. The behind-the-scenes buzz is that Weinberg is "connected" to those who ran Currence out of town There are folks who still haven't recovered from that.

There's also the more recent example of running Shepas out of town, and all of the dishonesty and duplicity that surrounded his departure and the naming of his replacement. Members of this Board were undoubtably complicit in that debacle. That episode didn't exactly do the program any favors, either.

What it boils down to is this: everyone wants their guys to be pulling the strings behind the scenes. I don't see anyone who's running on a "hands off" platform. If the choice is between one group of meddlers and another group of meddlers (neither with any demonstrable competence), it would seem more prudent to vote based on the most important issue - education.

Anyone want to make the case in favor of this Board's competence with academics?

[austinsm11]

Do you want another example? When interviewing candidates to replace Hennon, Lexington's Superintendent (and WHS alum) applied for the job. Even though Lexington has received perfect scores on the state report card, he didn't get a second interview.


What candidates did get a second interview? Just because a district has a very good report card doesn't mean that person would be a good fit at Massillon. You have to consider the demographics. I really don't remember who all was interviewed, but maybe the candidates that got a 2nd interview were coming from districts a little more similiar to Massillon.

[austinsm11]

Let's put that in context. Both Miller and Becherucci voted to keep Al Hennon as Super even though the schools should scant improvement during his tenure.


I do agree that Hennon seemed to be around for awhile despite a lack of improvement in the schools.

[Obie Wan]

What candidates did get a second interview?
Fred Blosser, Bill Zwick and Steven Stohla.

Marion (under Zwick) didn't do well on state tests. Canton* (under Blosser) didn't do well. Alliance (under Stohla) didn't do well. And when I say "didn't do well", I mean as in among the worst performing districts in the state.

* Yes, I know he came here from Dalton.

Just because a district has a very good report card doesn't mean that person would be a good fit at Massillon. You have to consider the demographics. I really don't remember who all was interviewed, but maybe the candidates that got a 2nd interview were coming from districts a little more similiar to Massillon.
That's true - but I'd think that a guy who grew up in Massillon and graduated from WHS might be familiar with the demographic profile of our schools.

[Banks]

So, Mr Weinburg, some questions have been posted. Do you have any answers on the eve of the election??

Marie

Haven't you noticed Weinburg has done the ole
hit and run posting!

Signs on and only post 2 post then he is gone!
I have done some digging and to get more into his background you need or should talk with people who have dealt with the company he works for , in the investment field.

[Banks]

Bill Zwick .

Marion (under Zwick) didn't do well on state tests. Canton* (under Blosser) didn't do well.

* Yes, I know he came here from Dalton.




I don't think Zwick got a second interview, I know he is now living in Florida.

[The Voice]

Everybody is connected one way or another.. hell, if I ran for office, you'd connect me to somebody..point is, so what.. I worked with Weinberg in Coaching, he has that 'personality' that continiously digs and digs.. frankly; because of his personality, (some will like it and some will want to commit suicide if their around him long enough) perhaps is JUST what is needed on the BOE.. watch em on channel 10 and decide for yourself.

tv

[CATS44]

It doesnt matter who the candidates are, if they come from an urban district their test scores will be down.

Blosser gets the blame for CCS, but not the credit for Dalton?

Zwick gets the blame for Marion, but not the well deserved credit for his previous stops?

But back to the question at hand...

What the BOE needs are members that are not afraid to take a public stand and rally folks to their respective points of view. What we have now is a Politboro, where every vote is unanimous. In what is supposed to be an open democracy, we have a BOE that makes all the decisions in privacy, and then votes the foregone conclusion in public.

[Obie Wan]

I don't think Zwick got a second interview, I know he is now living in Florida.
The Inde (http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=7098&Category=1) says he did.

[Obie Wan]

It doesnt matter who the candidates are, if they come from an urban district their test scores will be down.
Carried to its logical conclusion, that says that poor scores in Massillon are inevitable.

I don't believe that. And I suggest that those who do have no business being involved in education.

Blosser gets the blame for CCS, but not the credit for Dalton?
Did Dalton schools get any better under his leadership? Did they get any worse since he left?

Zwick gets the blame for Marion, but not the well deserved credit for his previous stops?
Ya mean like Massillon? Our schools stunk when he was here. Orrville's schools weren't at the top of the heap, either.

What the BOE needs are members that are not afraid to take a public stand and rally folks to their respective points of view. What we have now is a Politboro, where every vote is unanimous. In what is supposed to be an open democracy, we have a BOE that makes all the decisions in privacy, and then votes the foregone conclusion in public.
Can you name a single instance of a current Board member taking such a stand?

IMHO, you just made the best argument for Weinberg (see TV's personality profile :wink:). And yet, you say that you won't vote for the one candidate who most closely fits your ideal.

Strange...

[Banks]

The Inde (http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=7098&Category=1) says he did.


Do you believe everything you read in the papers?

[Banks]

As you know, our new Tiger Band director is not a Massillon grad, but he certainly quickly learned the history and he is wonderful!

The Massillon Band director has orange in his blood and does know the history of our town, his dad was born and raised here and he still has family in Massillon that was one of the main reasons he wanted the job.

[Obie Wan]

Do you believe everything you read in the papers?
Everything? No. This (http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=7541&Category=8)? Yes.

[CATS44]

The fact that Mr Weinberg came to this forum, made mention that he is a youth league coach and season ticket holder...and dropped a few names, two of which make me shudder....and then gave forth the old 'lead, follow, or get out of the way' axiom...

And then given a simple opportunity to LEAD by expressing his opinion and reasons for that opinion on a fairly important question, he refused the mantle of leadership.

Sorry.

Mr Weinberg made a very strong case against himself.

[austinsm11]

It doesnt matter who the candidates are, if they come from an urban district their test scores will be down.


I agree that they will be lower. The key, imo, is to find someone who has raised the scores while in charge of the school district. I think you also need to look at how the district compares to similiar districts around the state.

A super. at Massillon or Canton will never get the scores of a Jackson or NC. Does that mean the super at Jackson or NC is better?

[austinsm11]

That's true - but I'd think that a guy who grew up in Massillon and graduated from WHS might be familiar with the demographic profile of our schools.

Yes, he would be familiar with our profile. That isn't the question...The question should be whether he knows how to raise scores and improve learning with this type of demographic. Working at a district like Lexinton is much different than Massillon...so it is hard to judge if he could do similiar things in Massillon.

[obie7661]

The fact that Mr Weinberg came to this forum, made mention that he is a youth league coach and season ticket holder...and dropped a few names, two of which make me shudder....and then gave forth the old 'lead, follow, or get out of the way' axiom...

And then given a simple opportunity to LEAD by expressing his opinion and reasons for that opinion on a fairly important question, he refused the mantle of leadership.

Sorry.

Mr Weinberg made a very strong case against himself.


Sly, slick and sneaky ... not what Massillon needs.

[xtiger]

The fact that Mr Weinberg came to this forum, made mention that he is a youth league coach and season ticket holder...and dropped a few names, two of which make me shudder....and then gave forth the old 'lead, follow, or get out of the way' axiom...

And then given a simple opportunity to LEAD by expressing his opinion and reasons for that opinion on a fairly important question, he refused the mantle of leadership.

Sorry.

Mr Weinberg made a very strong case against himself.

Sorry, I don't see it your way.

I liked the debate..........Mr Weinberg did extremely well!

[Tiger54]

If you want to get technical, it is currently open for new year. Stacy to this point has a contract that ends this school year. He has not yet been renewed for next year and he should not assume it will be there as a back-up in case the college jobs he is trying for are not there.

That is my problem, is that this job is clearly a worst-case scenario for him. The Massillon job should NEVER be "if I cannot get any other job".
And he sure let us know that this is his case. If he cannot get a college coaching job, he will be here. If he is offered a LAST MINUTE job, he would be out of Massillon in a flash. And then, where does that leave us? The players and the community? He would not care.

[Tiger54]

Sly, slick and sneaky ... not what Massillon needs.
No, we need what has been going on in the past. No one upset about the terrible proficiency scores, continual rationalizing and excuses, satisfied with a quarter of the categories being passed. . . . how very embarrassing. No National Merit Scholars year after year. The only school district which we are surpassing is CANTON'S! Is that what we want for our kids. If someone moves to the area for employment purposes, they do NOT want their kids in Massillon schools if they want the best for their kids.

[MTiger]

Regarding the lack of National Merit Scholars-

The PSAT is the qualifying exam for the National Merit Scholarship. I don't recall much emphasis being placed on the PSAT when I took it, other than it was a "practice" SAT. I think a lot of us treated it as such, and didn't do much to prepare for it. In my case, I wanted to go to OSU and knew they didn't require the SAT for admission.

I'm sure students who do well on the PSAT and become National Merit Scholars spend some time preparing for the test. Maybe our kids are still treating the test like I did. While it would be a nice bragging point for the district, I think I did OK without it.

[Obie Wan]

Regarding the lack of National Merit Scholars-

The PSAT is the qualifying exam for the National Merit Scholarship. I don't recall much emphasis being placed on the PSAT when I took it, other than it was a "practice" SAT. I think a lot of us treated it as such, and didn't do much to prepare for it. In my case, I wanted to go to OSU and knew they didn't require the SAT for admission.

I'm sure students who do well on the PSAT and become National Merit Scholars spend some time preparing for the test. Maybe our kids are still treating the test like I did. While it would be a nice bragging point for the district, I think I did OK without it.
This is very impolitic to say, but one should probably consider demographic trends and the genetic component as well. When I was going through school here, Merit Scholars were not uncommon. Some years on, they've all moved away from Massillon - and their (presumably gifted) offspring are attending other schools. The population of Massillon "proper" (within MCS boundaries) has fallen dramatically in the last 30 years. It's not unreasonable to think that the exodus is disproportionately from the upper social and intellectual strata, and there's little incentive for like families to move in and replace them. As such, it stands to reason that indicators like the numbers of Merit Scholars would decrease.

[Kamd50]

This is very impolitic to say, but one should probably consider demographic trends and the genetic component as well. When I was going through school here, Merit Scholars were not uncommon. Some years on, they've all moved away from Massillon - and their (presumably gifted) offspring are attending other schools. The population of Massillon "proper" (within MCS boundaries) has fallen dramatically in the last 30 years. It's not unreasonable to think that the exodus is disproportionately from the upper social and intellectual strata, and there's little incentive for like families to move in and replace them. As such, it stands to reason that indicators like the numbers of Merit Scholars would decrease.

I agree with MTiger's assessment as to the PSAT tests. Most students seem to plan on and do, attend Ohio colleges and simply do not bother with a test that is not required of them to get into their chosen schools. At least that is what I have seen between the years of 1998 and the present through my own children, family, and friends.

I would match up our top students against any other school's of upper social and intellectual strata anyday. Case in point: (from another thread)

" Academic Challenge Scores"

"The WHS AC team beat Jackson last week 90-57 and lost to Cental Catholic by just two points this week 80-78!"

[Obie Wan]

I agree with MTiger's assessment as to the PSAT tests. Most students seem to plan on and do, attend Ohio colleges and simply do not bother with a test that is not required of them to get into their chosen schools. At least that is what I have seen between the years of 1998 and the present through my own children, family, and friends.
I don't know about that. The best and brightest generally don't plan on going to schools like Ohio State. It's more likely that they'll aspire to the Ivy League, Stanford, or some such. Those kids will likely be taking the tests.

How long have the PSAT's been the qualifying test for Merit Scholars, anyway? I seem to remember that the SAT's were used for that purpose back in the day.

[MTiger]

This is very impolitic to say, but one should probably consider demographic trends and the genetic component as well. When I was going through school here, Merit Scholars were not uncommon. Some years on, they've all moved away from Massillon - and their (presumably gifted) offspring are attending other schools. The population of Massillon "proper" (within MCS boundaries) has fallen dramatically in the last 30 years. It's not unreasonable to think that the exodus is disproportionately from the upper social and intellectual strata, and there's little incentive for like families to move in and replace them. As such, it stands to reason that indicators like the numbers of Merit Scholars would decrease.

True, and unfortunately so. Of the top ten in my graduating class, only myself and one other came back to the area.

Anyone know when we had our last Merit Scholar?

[MTiger]

I don't know about that. The best and brightest generally don't plan on going to schools like Ohio State.

Ouch. Ohio State was the best choice for my chosen career path.

Then again, maybe I went there for the football tickets. :rockon:

[TigerCoach]

Some of the guys I went to school with went to West Point, U.S. Naval Academy, Georgia Institute of Technology, Wittenberg, Brown, etc...Ohio State was thought of as a level below those mentioned.

[MTiger]

The graduate program I went through receives 3-4,000 applications for 100 spots every year. They have to meet a quota of both in-state and current university student to receive state funding. I had a high GPA and scored extremely well on the admissions tests, and attending Ohio State was just another plus on the application. No regrets.

[Obie Wan]

Ouch. Ohio State was the best choice for my chosen career path.

Then again, maybe I went there for the football tickets. :rockon:
Yeah, well, that's why I said generally. :wink: You can get a good education at a large number of schools, and there are certainly fields in which OSU, etc. are among the very best in the country. There's no sense in going to Harvard if you want to major in Animal Husbandry.

I can specifically remember 7 Merit Scholars from back in my day. Three went to Ivy League schools, two went to other out-of-state private universities, one went to Colorado to be a ski bum, and I forget what happened to the last one (although, to be fair, he might have gone to Kent). At least 5 of them left town after high school and never came back.

[LLRose]

And he sure let us know that this is his case. If he cannot get a college coaching job, he will be here. If he is offered a LAST MINUTE job, he would be out of Massillon in a flash. And then, where does that leave us? The players and the community? He would not care.

there would be only one solution

jack rose

[TigerCoach]

The graduate program I went through receives 3-4,000 applications for 100 spots every year. They have to meet a quota of both in-state and current university student to receive state funding. I had a high GPA and scored extremely well on the admissions tests, and attending Ohio State was just another plus on the application. No regrets.

Your right, for your career path, OSU is the place to be. Just like Engineering at Georgia Tech, every school usually has a specialty. Crackerman went to Alabama because they had great BBQ places down in Tuscaloosa.:jestera:

[OTC TIGER]

there would be only one solution

jack rose


Please...:doh:

[Seeker]

...How long have the PSAT's been the qualifying test for Merit Scholars, anyway? I seem to remember that the SAT's were used for that purpose back in the day.

Actually, it was the NMSQT - National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test. Now its called the PSAT/NMSQT.

I'll have to ask my daughter about the climate at WHS about taking the test.

I don't know about that. The best and brightest generally don't plan on going to schools like Ohio State. It's more likely that they'll aspire to the Ivy League, Stanford, or some such. Those kids will likely be taking the tests.

My daughter got a $$$$$ call from Harvard based on her ACT score and other scholastic achievements. As far as I know, she didn't take the SAT.

(Too bad $$$$$$-$$$$$ still add ups up to a heck of a lot more than any state college in Ohio's rates for in-state students.)

[Obie Wan]

Actually, it was the NMSQT - National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test. Now its called the PSAT/NMSQT.
I remember the NMSQT's (the name anyway), but I don't specifically remember taking them. I do remember taking the SSAT's in 8th grade, and the SAT's in high school (and the GMAT's later). I know that I never took the ACT.

My daughter got a $$$$$ call from Harvard based on her ACT score and other scholastic achievements. As far as I know, she didn't take the SAT.

(Too bad $$$$$$-$$$$$ still add ups up to a heck of a lot more than any state college in Ohio's rates for in-state students.)
Unfortunately, that's true. The cost of higher education has grown far out of proportion to any rational explanation. If she's still interested in Harvard, you might consider a transfer after a couple of years. The degree will look the same, and you'll save a bundle of money over a 4-year education.

[Seeker]

Anyone know when we had our last Merit Scholar?

We had one the year before last, but none last year.

According to my daughter, who was a valedictorian and very in touch with opportunities, WHS does not put much if any emphasis at all on the PSAT.
She took it, but didn't find out until afterward that it was tied to the Merit Scholarship program.
The guidance office does not promote the PSAT that much, and the kids are not generally aware of the preparation that is available through classes, books and websites.
(Unlike the ACT, which they are very aware of, and prepare their butts off for. And YES, we do have many kids that do well on their ACT's when you take our demographics into consideration!)

[Seeker]

Unfortunately, that's true. The cost of higher education has grown far out of proportion to any rational explanation. If she's still interested in Harvard, you might consider a transfer after a couple of years. The degree will look the same, and you'll save a bundle of money over a 4-year education.

Yea, typical state college in Ohio will cost about $18,000 this year, counting books and expenses.

But part of the problem with a school like Harvard, for people like us, is the travel costs.
OU is bad enough being only three hours away by car.

[Obie Wan]

But part of the problem with a school like Harvard, for people like us, is the travel costs.
OU is bad enough being only three hours away by car.
What travel costs? One bus ticket in September, one in May. :tonguewave:

[CATS44]

Let me put it this way to illustrate a point.

Smith Elementary is among the best grade schools in all of Stark County when it comes to test scores.

Does the Super, no matter who he is, get credit for Smiths performance?

Emerson is not among the best, to put it mildly. Does the Super get the blame?

IMO the street goes both ways.

When will folks learn that the state test results are more a corrollary of family income levels than adequacy of school districts?

We could make a complete swap of the staffs at Smith and Emerson, down to the janitors, and the test scores wouldnt change an iota.

We could make a total swap of staff, including the administrations, and test scores in both Jackson and Massillon wouldnt change.

State test scores are one of the biggest frauds perpetrated on the public in decades.

[Obie Wan]

When will folks learn that the state test results are more a corrollary of family income levels than adequacy of school districts?

We could make a complete swap of the staffs at Smith and Emerson, down to the janitors, and the test scores wouldnt change an iota.
Yassah. Dem po' blacks jus' won't do wid no book learnin' no how.

We could make a total swap of staff, including the administrations, and test scores in both Jackson and Massillon wouldnt change.
In that case, why should anyone care who gets selected to the BOE? Why would anyone care who the teachers are? Hell, why even have schools if kids are genetically and environmentally predisposed to a certain amount of retained knowledge?

Or let me put it this way: do you really believe that Massillon has among the stupidest kids in the state?

Or I could ask it like this: do you think the BOE elections serve only to determine who gets to pick the new football coach?

State test scores are one of the biggest frauds perpetrated on the public in decades.
I disagree. If all kids take the same tests, it can certainly provide a window into how kids in one district compare to kids in another, similar district.

If you have to teach to something, why not teach to the tests? At least it's quantifiable. It's a lot more germane than nebulous concepts like how 2+2 makes them feel.

[Seeker]

I disagree. If all kids take the same tests, it can certainly provide a window into how kids in one district compare to kids in another, similar district.


Glad you asked.
Here's how we compare to similar districts in Ohio:
(Give it time to load.)

http://ilrc.ode.state.oh.us/districts/Report.asp?Dssid=5F47A9F0440DF365871283845E82E72B&desc=D.2.1%20-%20Proficiency%20Test%20Results%20(Similar%20Distr icts)&str=044354,Massillon%20City,Stark%20County


We don't suck.

[xtiger]

Let me put it this way to illustrate a point.

Smith Elementary is among the best grade schools in all of Stark County when it comes to test scores.

Does the Super, no matter who he is, get credit for Smiths performance?


Smith is also among the best in all of Stark County when it comes
to attractive teachers. This may be why students perform better! lol

[Seeker]

Smith is also among the best in all of Stark County when it comes
to attractive teachers. This may be why students perform better! lol

Everything is a piece of the puzzle, and contributes to success.

It is possible that not only do the little boys look forward to going to school and pay attention when they get there, but maybe more fathers are involved at the school.

Heck man, what ever it takes.

[Obie Wan]

Glad you asked.
Here's how we compare to similar districts in Ohio:
(Give it time to load.)

http://ilrc.ode.state.oh.us/districts/Report.asp?Dssid=5F47A9F0440DF365871283845E82E72B&desc=D.2.1%20-%20Proficiency%20Test%20Results%20(Similar%20Distr icts)&str=044354,Massillon%20City,Stark%20County


We don't suck.
We're below average in 19 of 28 categories. That isn't good.

Let's break it down by school:
- WHS: 9/10 below average
- MMS: 8/13 below average
- Elementary: 2/5 below average (1 exactly average)

[Seeker]

We're below average in 19 of 28 categories. That isn't good.

I just said that we don't suck.
You're right its not good.

There are similar schools to ours that far exceed the average.

Analysis of the data shows that one area that seems to make a difference is discipline.
(Although this data set can be skewed due to a systems reluctance to be honest when reporting incidents.)
When it comes to the amount of discipline problems that we have compared to similar schools, we definately do suck.

[Obie Wan]

Analysis of the data shows that one area that seems to make a difference is discipline.
(Although this data set can be skewed due to a systems reluctance to be honest when reporting incidents.)
When it comes to the amount of discipline problems that we have compared to similar schools, we definately do suck.
It would be interesting to drill down into the data to see there is a correlation between school size and performance among similar districts. That is, do the best performing similar districts tend to have more, smaller schools or fewer, large ones?

And this must be mentioned: does anyone else remember when it was guaranteed that the new middle school would raise test scores 25%?