Cincinnati Enquirer DISRESPECTS MASSILLON TRADITON !!

[DAWGH8R]

Picked up the local fishwrap, at a DIRTY deli in downtown Cincinnati. This article is in the sports section.

These are the first few lines:

Massillon Washington and Moeller, two of the most storied football programs in Ohio, will meet at 4 p.m. today as part of the third annual i-wireless FOX19 Prep Classic at Paul Brown Stadium.

Moeller has won seven Ohio state titles; Massillon has 22 mythical poll titles.


Complete article here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20060909/SPT030101/609090449/
This guy needs some e-mail !!!

PS Gerry Faust coudn't carry the clipboard of Paul Brown, Earle Bruce,Leo Strang, Chuck Mather, or TOM STACY !!!!

[austinsm11]

Seems like a cheap jab to me. Not like we haven't heard it before though.

Any of you down there going to stay to watch Eds vs. Xavier. I know that Ohio State is on at 8. I wouldn't want to miss Ohio State/Texas, but that should be a good high school game.

Is the team heading back tonight? Any of the coaches going to stay and scout Eds? I have a feeling we may see them in the playoffs, but that is a long way off so maybe they will wait until later in the season.

[monte81]

I am on my way to the nati to witness the tigers destroy there season right now!!

[DB135]

To: mdyer@enquirer.com
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:27 PM
Subject: Reference Mythical Titles


Since you are attempting to discount or cancel the value of Massillon's state championships please enlighten me on how the state champions were determined in the years Massillon won those titles. If you fail to find another way those titles were determined then you have no other recourse as a professional journalist than to swallow that fact and report it accurately.

If you choose to continue to attempt to discount poll titles make sure you include all sports that determine their champion (including the 2002 OSU natl championship) in that manner. Massillon played all pretenders to their championships during those years and their record along with the accomplishments of those players and coaches clearly validate those titles.

By the way when you smugly what to annoint the playoff champions as the only legitimate ones let me offer "some" arguments against those former champions as being any more legitimate or deserving. (1)Was 2 or even 8 a fair number to include in the playoffs when strength of schedule and/or player injuries might eliminate deserving teams from qualifying. (2) Playoff teams are determined by region not by the top 32 teams in the state. Is this giving you a legitimate playoff field to determine the state champion?

The shallowness of what you attempt to imply by the mythical label only amuses knowledgeable football fans. We would never attempt to use such illegitimate excuses to try and destroy any teams tradition.

[austinsm11]

Very Nice DB!

[DAWGH8R]

Nice e-mail DB !!! :rockin:

[The Butler]

Nicely worded response there DB. This is one area I have never failed to back-up the Massillon faithful. But when dealing with parochial schools, it's much better to bring up the Golden Domers "mythical" national titles than OSU's.

[jblanky]

db if only i could use the kings english so well. thats telling it as it is////// GO TIGERS

[tubaswinger99]

Sent as well today...was to mad not too.....


Just who are you? That one day you would wake up and decide that the past means nothing? That one day the fact that you don't agree with a tradition as strong as Massillon Football, had nothing to do with the pure existence of this game we play today. Before you make assumptions that you, yourself, cannot hold up to, I would watch the words you spew around. I think you owe the citizens of Massillon and the game of high school football a HUGE apology. I mean you don't write for paper as nostalgic as the The New York Times, and we don't make fun of you for that, but I guess that's the short man syndrome, making up for the difference......




"Win or Lose, Massillon Always"

[austinsm11]

I mean you don't write for paper as nostalgic as the The New York Times, and we don't make fun of you for that, but I guess that's the short man syndrome, making up for the difference......

LMAO....thats great!

[CATS44]

Every state title is mythical until every team is put into the tournament that decides the true champion.

Until that time, we will keep ours and they can claim theirs.

The rest all still have a long way to go to catch up.

[jester]

They just wish they had more

[sixerfan889]

but still, when you talk about state championships, were they won on the field or given because the playoff system wasn't really formed back in the day?

this is the argument that most people put up. of course the average tiger fan does not have an interest in arguing this at all.


so, you can't blame people doubting how the tigers were crowned "state champions" for 22 times. its just that the average fan in the stark county area or the state for that matter wants to see a team on the field winning the state championship

[DB135]

but still, when you talk about state championships, were they won on the field or given because the playoff system wasn't really formed back in the day?

this is the argument that most people put up. of course the average tiger fan does not have an interest in arguing this at all.


so, you can't blame people doubting how the tigers were crowned "state champions" for 22 times. its just that the average fan in the stark county area or the state for that matter wants to see a team on the field winning the state championship


A totally ridiculous premise made by people who have no clue as to the history of Ohio High School Football. Did Massillon duck any prominent team during those years?Were they in one of the best conferences in the state that allowed for a non-conference schedule of the best opponents in the country? Were their players and coaches later to go on to validate these titles by their performance at the college and pro level?

If you only question the legitimacy of a title by the method of selection then you also must question Notre Dame's performance under Rockne and Oklahoma's success under Wilkenson which these people fail to mention when trying to tarnish Massillon's tradition. They also fail to mention the flaws in the existing playoff system which makes those "on the field" titles as questionable as any poll title.

[chumly]

Exactly!

Look at the who's who of the old ALL AMERICAN CONFERENCE, which was THE PREMIER conference in all of high school football, anwhere, in their glory days! How many players from that conference alone went on to be college All-Americans and pro football players? Who was better than Massillon, Warren, Niles, Mck, Alliance and Stubenville combined from the 40's to the early 70's???

Massilllon played the best. When Cathederal Latin was up we played them, when Benedictine was up we played them. When Niles McKinley was up (what was their winning streak?) we played them and beat them. When UA was up we played them.

St Ignatius made it to the playoffs a few years ago after a 6-4 regular season and went on to win the State Championship. Under the early playoff system, Iggy wouldn't have made the playoffs, thus having no shot at the title at all. Massillon had a few really good teams that didn't make the playoffs under the early system. I remember the '77 and '78 teams, just for example. In '77 we had a 9-1 team that spanked McKinley, yet Mck (and only Mck) made it from our Region, went on and barely got beat by Moeller in the Finals. In '78 we were 9-0-1 and didn't make it due to the 1 team per region system at the time.

DB135 is exactly right!

[Class89]

I remember being a senior in high school in 1989 when Paul Brown stopped by as a member of the Distinguished Alumni. He told an assembly that when he was coach, the team was so good that they scrimmaged Kent State's football team and beat them! That was a "mythical" win.

[chumly]

Oh yeah, what about that 1970 "mythical" State Championship team. Nah, they weren't any good, right? How many guys from 1970-72 went on to play or get drafted into the pros?

[longtimefirsttime]

Some people think football started in 1972. Tiger fans, and knowledgeable fans outside the greater Cincinnati area, know better.

[DAWGH8R]

There was actually football before 1972 ????:doh2: :doh2:

[npaflas]

Back when we won the state championships the board was just massillon people so that how we one them. i am just kidding . GO TIGERS

[npaflas]

What happen to the other teams that won the state champs before 1972. Or was it just Massillon that won back then. Didn't Mckinley win somes.

[DAWGH8R]

Those are different !!!:doh2: :doh2:

[MTcheer18]

I am on my way to the nati to witness the tigers destroy there season right now!!


im sorry, but it is statements like these that make us feel really stupid after a loss. We need not make statements like these when we arent certain that we're gonna win. I am certainly not taking away from the fact that a lot of times we know we are gonna win, but i knew in my heart Moeller was gonna be a tough team to face. These are statements I expected last year from Mckinley fans last year after they beat us in the regular season and then played us again in the Playoffs. Just stay wise Tiger Fans!!!

[The Voice]

Regardless of last weeks outcome.. history remains the same ..and THAT is what this thread is about.. The so called 'journalist' from Cincinnati needs to be accountable for his comments.. Did he respond ? I think not.. SHOULD HE ?
Hell yes.. it really irks me when balless reporters use the pen to espress an opinion instead of delivering THE FACTS ! His angle, and the angle of the newspaper was disrespectful to the City of Massillon, and a football program that is deep with tradition and integrity.. which includes 22 state championships that were won ON THE FIELD.. perhaps robbie the reporter should research the final associated press rankings in those years which at that time determined who was number #1 .. only then, I think he will see who was sitting on top at the end of the season .. we're waiting for an apology ..

Thank you
The Voice
A REAL thirty year Broadcast Journalist

[DB135]

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/blogphotos/mikedyer_160x203.jpg

Mike Dyer has been at the Enquirer since June 2004. He covered prep sports in Akron for five years before arriving in Cincinnati. He likes covering Friday night basketball games and writing feature stories. One of his favorite interviews was after a Saturday afternoon football game with a tall, lanky sophomore wide receiver from Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary named LeBron James.

[tigger1983]

I am so tired of hearing about our "mythical" titles, but until we win one under the current system I suppose we always will.... It goes with the territory, I suppose... When you are at the top, everyone wants to knock you off that perch... Like Nascar driver Jeff Gordon said, whether they boo you or cheer you, it says that you must be doing something right or they would not even care to talk about you... Are you going to tell me that championships won before playoff systems changed dont count??? ML Baseball has changed to add 2 divions and a wild card team to the playoffs, still the New York Yankees keep counting their previous championships and I dont hear anyone calling them "mythical".... Richard Petty won 200 races and 7 championships before they changed the championship fromat to include a 10-race playoff, and Dale Earnhart tied those 7 championships, but I dont hear them referred to as "mythical".... Before the Super Bowl, they played NFL championship game and I don't hear them referred to as "mythical"... College football did not have a BCS system, just two opinion polls of coaches and writers and I dont hear of those championships by the great Notre Dame, Alabama, and other teams referred to as "mythical".... None of those schools and none of those teams have a tradition like ours and they are jealous.... You mention some of those great teams of the past, 1970, for example..... Could any of those Cincinnati teams been able to hang with us that year if there were a playoff system??? It is not like we have disappeared off the landscape since the playoff system has been put into place, we have still been a major player and have had some deep runs into the playoffs and many times have had a major say so in who did win the championship that particular year, and have knocked on the door many times already and one of these years we will kick it in.... Look at McKinley who knocked on the door several times before they kicked it in... And even that playoff system that they are so fond to refer to has been tweeked to add teams, and under the old playoff system, many of those teams who have won championships since it was tweaked would not have had a chance to play for that championship (6-4 Iggy is one example) so those championships are just as "mythical" to me..... You have to adjust and adapt, just like when we had very good teams that never made the playoffs, we adapted by playing even tougher opponents in order to give us a greater chance at participating each year.... It is all so politcial and just like any other politicain, you can spin the numbers any way you want to make your own team look good.... One example you can use is comparing the size of the schools, accordingly they should not only beat us they should dominate us, but they dont, we still continue taking on all comers including the #11 team in the country and beating them... Let them say "mythical" all they want to.... We know as well as they do (if they just got honest with themselves) that our championships are every bit as real as any of theirs!!!!

[tigerbill]

Hey, Class89. The story about the Tigers beating Kent State is true, but the rest of the story is it was 47-0 at the end of the 3rd quarter an Kent State refused to play the fourth.

Is it true? Well, I read it in the newspaper so it must be, right?

Love those Tigers

Tigerbill

[npaflas]

Tigerbill you are right i remember reading that to.

[DAWGH8R]

Didn't Todd Porter write that article ??:tonguewave: :ohno:

[tigerbill]

Actually I read that long long before TP was born. I was 8 years old at the time but I read it in an article about Massillon around 1950.

I think the papers were a little more believable at that time.

Cheers Tigerbill

[Masstiger]

Let me quote, in part, the first definition of the word "myth" (the derivation of the word "mythology") as defined by Webster's New World College Dictionary. And I quote:

"Myths usually involve the exploits of gods and heroes".

So they can call the titles what they will. And, when they do, I will refer to Websters and thank them for placing us on such a pedestal. Nuff said.

[longtimefirsttime]

Hey, Class89. The story about the Tigers beating Kent State is true, but the rest of the story is it was 47-0 at the end of the 3rd quarter an Kent State refused to play the fourth.

Is it true? Well, I read it in the newspaper so it must be, right?

Love those Tigers

Tigerbill

That is true.

[tigger1983]

:cool: So they are calling us "gods and heroes" or our championships "the exploits of gods and heroes".... I agree, I will take that anyday!!!