Jena 6 present BET award

[massillon catholic]

Oh, you are joing Austinsm11 and his rants? Have you ever posted anything nice? Everything I read from you is full of hate and anger. You really need to get a life and find a hobby.


What I said is the truth, simply because you disagree with it doesn't mean it is full of hate and anger. Whenever somene disagrees with you and lays out the truth your only defense is the are full of hatred. WRONG!

[austinsm11]

YOU keep throwing up ignorance---I am ignorant because I feel that the Jena 6 do not deserve long jail sentences!!!
I never said that. I agree that they do not deserve long jail sentences. I do believe that the one guy should be in an adult prison because of his past history with violence...but not the others. This boy has actually already served enough time in the adult prison, imo. Read up further in the thread where I gave my opinion on what happened.

Here is a question, if you want to believe the fight all initiated from the nooses, wouldn't what the black boys did be considered a hate crime then and carry a heavier punishment?

What about in Georgia---the black kid just released from jail after 2 years. He was 17 and slept with 15 year old white girl
First of all, you don't even have this correct. She gave him oral sex...which imo, makes his sense that much worse. I AGREE that it was a shame what happened there. I would be outraged. What is even more of a crime is the fact of where are Al and Jesse in such an important case like this one?


Again, you miss the point-- not alot of favortism in bulldog country on the subject of race but never said NO racists are in Canton.
You think there are more racists in Massillon? By statistics alone and taking into consideration that these are similiar cities, Canton having such a larger population would allow for more racists. Remember, not all racists are white...even though that is all we seem to talk about. Are you trying to avoid all racists or only the white ones?

The ignorance comments about your posts have to do with you thinking there are more racists in Massillon among your other comments. I continually show you who the first black actor to win an oscar was and you REFUSE to actually read and research...that is choosing to be ignorant. I know that this fact doesn't mean much in the scheme of this debate, but it does show your lack of willingness to research something and actually admit you are wrong. You say none of the cops in the Rodney King case went to jail....I show you where they did and you don't believe it....you claim elvis was a racist based on a video that you saw with your own two eyes...but you were WRONG.
What is ignorance is to not investigate things are your own. To keep believing things that are false and not bother to do the research.

[austinsm11]

What I said is the truth, simply because you disagree with it doesn't mean it is full of hate and anger. Whenever somene disagrees with you and lays out the truth your only defense is the are full of hatred. WRONG!

Truth seems to be something many on here don't want to here. Funny because that is exactly what Bill Cosby says in his book.

[austinsm11]

His own kind-----alot more African Americans at McKinley and I made the statement because if you cant see the racism in Jena, La you cant see the real problems with the football program(s) in Stark County. Massillon has never played the best 11 and alot of times the black kids are bunched into the same positions causing the stuff. Posters on here have the problem with blacks---you never see threads started by blacks on racial issues and injustices because most of you cant look outside the box of your neighborhood!

If you want your child to be around more people of the same race, that is up to you. In general all people are more comfortable around their own race. But what about the "Massillon brotherhood" you talk about?

You mention that Massillon has never played the best 11. I would hate to think that a coach would risk his job at Massillon, and more importantly trying to win a state championship, just because he didn't want a black player on the field. Why play some black players and not others then? What positions are black players being stuffed into? Are coaches saying that black players can only play rb,wr, and db and they won't see playing time at the other positions?

[massillon catholic]

YOU keep throwing up ignorance---I am ignorant because I feel that the Jena 6 do not deserve long jail sentences!!! FUNNY! What about in Georgia---the black kid just released from jail after 2 years. He was 17 and slept with 15 year old white girl. Her parents pushed the issue because he was black. Was the jail time warranted???NO but he served 2 years missing out on football schollies and YES he was an honor student!!!
Again, you miss the point-- not alot of favortism in bulldog country on the subject of race but never said NO racists are in Canton.

it is good that you have helped people of all races in what you believe. I do the same regardless of race. In my profession all I see is Americans and in coaching all I see is football players.
His own kind-----alot more African Americans at McKinley and I made the statement because if you cant see the racism in Jena, La you cant see the real problems with the football program(s) in Stark County. Massillon has never played the best 11 and alot of times the black kids are bunched into the same positions causing the stuff. Posters on here have the problem with blacks---you never see threads started by blacks on racial issues and injustices because most of you cant look outside the box of your neighborhood!

Monte: Just my two cents on the Jena 6 and a few other issues that you brought up. I dont feel the Jena 6 deserve long jail sentences, just as I dont feel the boys that hung the rope deserve jail sentences. They got beat down for what they did and end of story, IMO. I think the kid that got jail for having sex with the white girl was wrong. 17 and 15 year olds date all of the time. Hell, when I was in high school and 18 years old, I had a sixteen year old girlfriend. theres no differnece to me. That kid got screwed, IMO.

I disagree with you position that Massillon doesn't play the best 11 because they are black. I can remember several occassions where the white kid who was a back-up was better than the black kid. I think it goes both ways but has nothing to do with race, but rather politics.

You bring up more African-Americans at Mck. However, in my nearly fifty years of life, I have only met two blacks that were African-Americans. All of the rest were born right here in the USA. My ancestors, not my parents, are from Scotland am I a Scottish-American? I didnt see that box on my daughters college application. The fact is, if you were born here, you are an American. If you were born in Africa and moved to America then you are an African-American. Under you scenerio everybody should be label BLANK-American.

I think the racism works both ways by both blacks and whites. Many blacks are still hung up about the injustices of slavery even though there isn't a person alive that was a slave or a slave-owner. So, what is your remedy to what happenened when none of us were alive and had nothing to do with it? Should blacks get preferential treatment over whites even though neither was involved with the injustice? If it weren't for slavery many, many blacks wouldn't be in this country today enjoying the life and opportunities that they have.

[massillon catholic]

Exactly the point. Powder is the cocaine of choice for the white man and rock for the black man. Both are cocaine, but each receives different sentencing guidelines. :scratchchin:


If someone is speeding and going 100mph and someone speeding is going 70 mph, under your logic the fines should be the same because they are both speeding.:scratchchin:

[austinsm11]

Monte: Just my two cents on the Jena 6 and a few other issues that you brought up. I dont feel the Jena 6 deserve long jail sentences, just as I dont feel the boys that hung the rope deserve jail sentences. They got beat down for what they did and end of story, IMO. I think the kid that got jail for having sex with the white girl was wrong. 17 and 15 year olds date all of the time. Hell, when I was in high school and 18 years old, I had a sixteen year old girlfriend. theres no differnece to me. That kid got screwed, IMO.


I do not think the kids who hung the nooses should get jail time. What they did was wrong, but they didn't physicall hurt anyone and were punished by the school. I do feel that the black guys should get somekind of jailtime, but it probably should be in juvenile detention and not the adult prison (and not for very long either)....the exception being the black guy who has been in trouble 3-4 times already for assault. Again, we aren't talking about a fair 1 on 1 fight here and this is my reasoning for some type of jail/juvenile detention. You can agree or disagree, that is your right.

What frustrates me is the people saying such harsh initial charges from the DA was racist. I do not agree with the initial charges, but I can see why he would have filed them. He didn't file them because the guys were black, he filed them because people thought the victim was actually dead. I also don't know that saying the victim was out of the hospital in only 3 hours is enough to justify not going after an attempted murder charge. Had the witnessed not intervened, who knows how long they would have kept kicking the white guy. If someone tries to shoot and kill another person and misses with their shot...the victim wasn't shot or injured at all...so should the charge be lessened from attempted murder? So again, I do think the attempted murder charge was too much, but I also see where the DA was coming from.

[massillon catholic]

I think i might send my LB to McKinley to play with his own kind



Which "kind" would that be? Its my understanding that he is both black and white, just as is your son that transferred to Perry from GlenOak. Perry of course, is more white by percentage than GlenOak. I'm having trouble following your reasoning. I think you are getting upset with some posts and saying things that you really dont mean. Thats not you.

[monte81]

If you want your child to be around more people of the same race, that is up to you. In general all people are more comfortable around their own race. But what about the "Massillon brotherhood" you talk about?

You mention that Massillon has never played the best 11. I would hate to think that a coach would risk his job at Massillon, and more importantly trying to win a state championship, just because he didn't want a black player on the field. Why play some black players and not others then? What positions are black players being stuffed into? Are coaches saying that black players can only play rb,wr, and db and they won't see playing time at the other positions?

My son went to St. barbs for elementary school---how many blacks on that schoolyard? His best friend at school was Bob Dunwiddie's son---Bob and i made a pretty good strongside/weakside combination for a few years if I remember correctly. I love the Massillon football brotherhood---no doubt about that! Ask anyone who played or been around me about my dedication. You think i would scacrifice my son for my love of the tigers?? HELL NO---if Massillon is where he needs to be to win and excel to get a schollie--fine but if I dont see anything differant in opinions from staff and others he will play elsewhere! I worked out with the 2005 and 06 players everyday before I moved to Columbus and will do anything for a tiger. I also coached football in canton for years and know those kids as well. My son has been playing football in Canton since 7 years old, grew up in Massillon and Canton and has friends in both. I guess we will see in a few years.

Numerous accounts of blacks getting railroaded for transfers, white players over the years---if you never been on the practice field for Massillon then you would never now the real deal. I am not the only one who knows this to be true and some whites have been looked over as well but that was because of $$$$$$$. Did you play at Massillon? If you did you would know what I am talking about.

Jena, La is a racist town by accounts from its own residents. BET is racist? HAHAHAHa. I could say the country music channel is racist as well.

crack and powder cocaine! ALL should carry the same sentence regardless of color or form of the drug.

[massillon catholic]

[QUOTE=monte81;82159] BET is racist? HAHAHAHa. I could say the country music channel is racist as well.

QUOTE]

Country music channel doesn't promote seperation by color. BET, by its very name does.

[massillon catholic]

I do not think the kids who hung the nooses should get jail time. What they did was wrong, but they didn't physicall hurt anyone and were punished by the school. I do feel that the black guys should get somekind of jailtime, but it probably should be in juvenile detention and not the adult prison (and not for very long either)....the exception being the black guy who has been in trouble 3-4 times already for assault. Again, we aren't talking about a fair 1 on 1 fight here and this is my reasoning for some type of jail/juvenile detention. You can agree or disagree, that is your right.

What frustrates me is the people saying such harsh initial charges from the DA was racist. I do not agree with the initial charges, but I can see why he would have filed them. He didn't file them because the guys were black, he filed them because people thought the victim was actually dead. I also don't know that saying the victim was out of the hospital in only 3 hours is enough to justify not going after an attempted murder charge. Had the witnessed not intervened, who knows how long they would have kept kicking the white guy. If someone tries to shoot and kill another person and misses with their shot...the victim wasn't shot or injured at all...so should the charge be lessened from attempted murder? So again, I do think the attempted murder charge was too much, but I also see where the DA was coming from.

My reasoning for suggesting little or no jail for the Jena 6 is because they were looking for trouble by putting up the noose. Now, the difference in our positions is how much trouble should that be? A beat down is fine, but trying to kill them is differant and I agree with you there. Perhaps, if the blacks took their toughest two guys beat the crap out of the other two that would have been better. The boys did have something coming, but it got out of hand.
I dont think a long prison sentence is in order, though.

[austinsm11]

Numerous accounts of blacks getting railroaded for transfers, white players over the years.

Railroaded? Isn't it possible the transfer was just better? Would the same logic apply that whites were railroaded when black transfers came in?

Besides, it it was a black/white issue...why not railroad black players with white players already in the Massillon system?

[massillon catholic]

Railroaded? Isn't it possible the transfer was just better? Would the same logic apply that whites were railroaded when black transfers came in?

Besides, it it was a black/white issue...why not railroad black players with white players already in the Massillon system?

He knows that argument has no merit. He fails to acknowledge that Zwick was better than Williams besides Williams still started at WR. Ricky Johnson trasnferred and started so did Jordan and Jesse Scott. Torrence took Turners spot but they are both black. The fact is the transfer situation washes out in the end. Both blacks and whites have been hit by incoming transfers. Normaly, the transfer is simply better. Hodgson transferred in and was better than Morgan yet Morgan started. Morgan black Hodgson white.

[austinsm11]

My reasoning for suggesting little or no jail for the Jena 6 is because they were looking for trouble by putting up the noose. Now, the difference in our positions is how much trouble should that be? A beat down is fine, but trying to kill them is differant and I agree with you there. Perhaps, if the blacks took their toughest two guys beat the crap out of the other two that would have been better. The boys did have something coming, but it got out of hand.
I dont think a long prison sentence is in order, though.

But the kid that was beat up wasn't one of the ones who hung the nooses. It has also been proven by a black FBI agent that the nooses had nothing to do with the attack on this boy.

I don't have a problem with a difference in opinion on the sentences, just a problem with some suggesting there was racism involved when there wasn't.

[monte81]

Railroaded? Isn't it possible the transfer was just better? Would the same logic apply that whites were railroaded when black transfers came in?

Besides, it it was a black/white issue...why not railroad black players with white players already in the Massillon system?

It happens every year not with just transfers. In 2004 Quentin paulik was a hard worker but was not the best QB as a junior(huth was)and not the best olb on the team as a senior but he still started----- we justified it by alternating Emery Saunders in with Darion switching back and forth in nickel and he only came out in passing downs but only recoreded like 20 tackles his whole senior season! hard worker but not starter material!!
HAHA!! Matt Swank was not better than Andre Horner, Mark Kester was not better than Eric King(salt) or Jason Relford orTyrone Pruitt, Vernon Riley was not better than LB Toles, Steve Sigenthaler was soft(sat out 3 quarters of the mckinley game with a stinger---FUNNY I dont know a massillon kid on my team that would of did that who grew up in massillon) Lee Hurst was not a better QB than Jamie Slutz or Joe Pierce, etc,..... just a few from my day and it keeps happening to white and black players----PERIOD!!!!

[monte81]

But the kid that was beat up wasn't one of the ones who hung the nooses. It has also been proven by a black FBI agent that the nooses had nothing to do with the attack on this boy.

I don't have a problem with a difference in opinion on the sentences, just a problem with some suggesting there was racism involved when there wasn't.


NEWSFLASH----- Jena, La is a racist town!!! How hard is it for you to understand that Everything in that town is about race.

[austinsm11]

Jena, La is a racist town by accounts from its own residents.

Here is my problem with this statement. Do you live in Jena? Obviously not. Have you read multiple sources about the issues in Jena...I highly doubt it when you were too lazy to read links that I gave you to prove your inaccuracies about topics such as the black oscar winner/elvis/rodneyking, etc.

You are free to believe this statement if you want, but please actually read and do some research before coming to your conclusions.

[austinsm11]

How hard is it for you to understand that Everything in that town is about race.

This coming from someone who refuses to actually READ up about the subjects we have talked about.

Again, if you want to form that conclusion, that is fine. But do some research before jumping to conclusions. This is why I feel your posts are ignorant.

[monte81]

This coming from someone who refuses to actually READ up about the subjects we have talked about.

Again, if you want to form that conclusion, that is fine. But do some research before jumping to conclusions. This is why I feel your posts are ignorant.


Ignorant? You keep throwing that word around but you are ignorant to your own white mans world racism. The majority of Jena residents have admitted that they have bad racial issues in the town. you sound like you have not done most research on the town history. LA is known worldwide for racism except for the month of FEB when they put on the mask for Mardi gras.

You are just another white man hiding the racism from the world and thinks people buy your I help blacks, fair world BS!

[austinsm11]

Ignorant? You keep throwing that word around but you are ignorant to your own white mans world racism. The majority of Jena residents have admitted that they have bad racial issues in the town. you sound like you have not done most research on the town history. LA is known worldwide for racism except for the month of FEB when they put on the mask for Mardi gras

Sorry bud, I have actually read a good bit on the situation. Do I think the town is racist? No Do I think there are racists in the town? Yes. That is my opinion and conclusion from READING.



How much have you READ about the topic?

[austinsm11]

You are just another white man hiding the racism from the world and thinks people buy your I help blacks, fair world BS!

Pretty bold statment...You are actually the one showing his true feelings.

[austinsm11]

Again, if your conclusion and opinion is that the town of Jena is racist after research...that is fine.

But what research went into your formation of this opinion? NONE

That my friend is being ignorant.

[monte81]

African-American Notables:

There have only been seventeen African-American nominations for Best Actor, divided amongst 12 different performers. Four actors (Poitier, Freeman, Washington and Smith) have been nominated twice (or more) for the top award. Some regard Denzel Washington as the first African-American performer to win Best Actor -- because previous Oscar-winner Sidney Poitier was of Jamaican descent:

I thought I didn't know what I was talking about!!!!!

Massillon transfers-----DT,Zwick, Ricky Johnson, Jordan, etc,... would of started for any team in Ohio just like Spielman(s) and craig Johnson. The transfers I mentioned would not of started over the fairless JV team!

Austin and Superbran---- one lives in the Carolinas and the other in Ohio where they have racial issues all the time---Cincinnati!

[austinsm11]

Massillon transfers-----DT,Zwick, Ricky Johnson, Jordan, etc,... would of started for any team in Ohio just like Spielman(s) and craig Johnson. The transfers I mentioned would not of started over the fairless JV team!

But by your own admission, this has happened to white and black players...so how is it a race issue?

[austinsm11]

They might as well where white suits at the Oscars or grammys because the voters of the awards are racist! it took 100plus years for a black to win major categories-----ie Denzel Washington and Hally Berry! You tell me no one was worthy until then? FUNNY!!!

So changing your story again. We are talking about BLACK actors (your quote, not mine), then you change it to African-American. So YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT....keep trying though, it is getting comical.
Just like when you changed it from black major award winners to black award winners for best actor/actress when you were proven wrong.

You are correct that Poiter is not African-American...but neither are you or Denzel either.

[austinsm11]

BTW, where do you think the blacks in Jamaica came from?

[massillon catholic]

Massillon transfers-----DT,Zwick, Ricky Johnson, Jordan, etc,... would of started for any team in Ohio just like Spielman(s) and craig Johnson. The transfers I mentioned would not of started over the fairless JV team!


You are confusing racism with the politics of Massillon football. It appears when a black player gets screwed by a transfer its racism, but when a white player gets screwed its something differant. BTW, you are over-rating some of the players that you mentioned. Although, I strongly agree on your assessment of Siegenthaler.

[austinsm11]

It happens every year not with just transfers. In 2004 Quentin paulik was a hard worker but was not the best QB as a junior(huth was)and not the best olb on the team as a senior but he still started----- we justified it by alternating Emery Saunders in with Darion switching back and forth in nickel and he only came out in passing downs but only recoreded like 20 tackles his whole senior season! hard worker but not starter material!!
HAHA!! Matt Swank was not better than Andre Horner, Mark Kester was not better than Eric King(salt) or Jason Relford orTyrone Pruitt, Vernon Riley was not better than LB Toles, Steve Sigenthaler was soft(sat out 3 quarters of the mckinley game with a stinger---FUNNY I dont know a massillon kid on my team that would of did that who grew up in massillon) Lee Hurst was not a better QB than Jamie Slutz or Joe Pierce, etc,..... just a few from my day and it keeps happening to white and black players----PERIOD!!!!

Monte, if it is happening to black and white players, then how is it a race issue?

[monte81]

You are confusing racism with the politics of Massillon football. It appears when a black player gets screwed by a transfer its racism, but when a white player gets screwed its something differant. BTW, you are over-rating some of the players that you mentioned. Although, I strongly agree on your assessment of Siegenthaler.

Over rating---#3 on the single season rushing list(johnson), #1 passer(Zwick), #1 Wr(jordan), and DT might be better than all of them at the next level! massillon politics plays the race card like no other---more blacks get screwed by the system than anyone and its been like that for a long long time. How many whites were screwed in the DT transfer----NONE! they just made excuses so Rose, vargas, etc,... could play LB knowing that DT was better! I wouldn't have switched to OLB either knowing that NONE were better. Thats the real reason why he didn't play LB---no tressel but in house issues with Rose and others! You mentioned yourself in posts that we do not play the best players.

Austin----I proved that Washington was the first black to win the award

[massillon catholic]

It happens every year not with just transfers. In 2004 Quentin paulik was a hard worker but was not the best QB as a junior(huth was)and not the best olb on the team as a senior but he still started----- we justified it by alternating Emery Saunders in with Darion switching back and forth in nickel and he only came out in passing downs but only recoreded like 20 tackles his whole senior season! hard worker but not starter material!!
HAHA!! Matt Swank was not better than Andre Horner, Mark Kester was not better than Eric King(salt) or Jason Relford orTyrone Pruitt, Vernon Riley was not better than LB Toles, Steve Sigenthaler was soft(sat out 3 quarters of the mckinley game with a stinger---FUNNY I dont know a massillon kid on my team that would of did that who grew up in massillon) Lee Hurst was not a better QB than Jamie Slutz or Joe Pierce, etc,..... just a few from my day and it keeps happening to white and black players----PERIOD!!!!

I could be wrong but I thought Vernon Riley played nose-guard and Toles LB, Swank played DB and I thought Horner was LB. Pierce had a strong arm but wasn't the right QB for that type of offense, he did good on D. Kester was decent and had speed. I thought Slutz was better as well, but Hurst did do a good job running the offense.

[austinsm11]

Austin----I proved that Washington was the first black to win the award

Perhaps you can explain how Poitier is not black then. People from Jamaica (actually it was the Bahamas, but that is just another one of your inaccuracies).

Are people living in France with dark skin tones not black? What makes a person black?

[massillon catholic]

Over rating---#3 on the single season rushing list(johnson), #1 passer(Zwick), #1 Wr(jordan), and DT might be better than all of them at the next level! massillon politics plays the race card like no other---more blacks get screwed by the system than anyone and its been like that for a long long time. How many whites were screwed in the DT transfer----NONE! they just made excuses so Rose, vargas, etc,... could play LB knowing that DT was better! I wouldn't have switched to OLB either knowing that NONE were better. Thats the real reason why he didn't play LB---no tressel but in house issues with Rose and others! You mentioned yourself in posts that we do not play the best players.

Austin----I proved that Washington was the first black to win the award


I'm not talking about these guys. Maybe I quoted the wrong post. I was talking about Relford. He was good when he wanted to play and not so good when he didn't want too. And, yes I agree we didn't play the best players all year. IMO, that doesn't have anything to do with the town of Massillon, but rather the coach. Who, hopefully wont be in Massillon much longer.

[monte81]

I could be wrong but I thought Vernon Riley played nose-guard and Toles LB, Swank played DB and I thought Horner was LB. Pierce had a strong arm but wasn't the right QB for that type of offense, he did good on D. Kester was decent and had speed. I thought Slutz was better as well, but Hurst did do a good job running the offense.


Riley and LB played the same position, Horner was moved to nose because of Swank, Kester was also soft!!!! Joe Pierce was better than both and was screwed by the system. Hurst cost ALL 2 games with his fumbles, int's and inconsistant play my senior year

[austinsm11]

massillon politics plays the race card like no other---more blacks get screwed by the system than anyone and its been like that for a long long time. How many whites were screwed in the DT transfer----NONE! they just made excuses so Rose, vargas, etc,... could play LB knowing that DT was better!

Again, if Massillon takes playing time away from blacks so much, why would you even consider sending your son to Massillon.

Also, are you saying that the whole reason that DT didn't play linebacker was because it would have taken lb time away from white players? So the rumor of DT refusing to play lb has no truth to it? Why wouldn't you bring this up much earlier in the year so that people would be upset with the coaching staff much more instead of putting blame on DT?

[massillon catholic]

Riley and LB played the same position, Horner was moved to nose because of Swank, Kester was also soft!!!! Joe Pierce was better than both and was screwed by the system. Hurst cost ALL 2 games with his fumbles, int's and inconsistant play my senior year

Was your senior year Owens first year?

[massillon catholic]

Joe Pierce was better than both and was screwed by the system.


The same system that gave him a job?

[austinsm11]

How many whites were screwed in the DT transfer----NONE! they just made excuses so Rose, vargas, etc,... could play LB knowing that DT was better!

That is a pretty bold accusation.

[massillon catholic]

How many whites were screwed in the DT transfer----NONE!

Then who got screwed, other blacks? That would't be racism as you have implied through-out your posts. Maybe bad coaching, but not racism.

[austinsm11]

Then who got screwed, other blacks? That would't be racism as you have implied through-out your posts. Maybe bad coaching, but not racism.

I don't understand that either. Makes about as much sense as saying Syndey Poitier isn't black.

[monte81]

please read MC! You brought up DT and Zwick. i said they would of started at any school they transfered. i implied others have been done in by racism by the politics of Massillon. Like I said walk in some of the blacks shoes in LA, massillon, and other places and your opinion might change.

Sidney Poiter is considered jamacian and Denzel was the 1st black to win best actor. Sorry you were wrong about that one Austin!

[austinsm11]

Sidney Poiter is considered jamacian and Denzel was the 1st black to win best actor. Sorry you were wrong about that one Austin!

So people from different countries are not considered black? Again, where do you think blacks from the Bahamas and Jamaica came from? Many came over in the slave trade from Africa. So how is he not black? What makes one black? Ancestors of people from the Bahamas and Jamaica many, many years ago were from Africa...so why are you black and he is not?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001627/bio

A native of Cat Island, The Bahamas, (though born in Miami during a mainland visit by his parents), Poitier grew up in poverty as the son of a dirt farmer


http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/poitier_s.html
Born in 1927 in Miami, Florida, Sidney Poitier grew up in the small village of Cat Island, Bahamas

http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Class/thr500/thr500/sixdegrees/poitier.html
Birth Place: Miami, Florida
Birth Date: 2/20/27
Debut: No Way Out, 1950
Citizenship: USA and Bahamas

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0839484.html
Poitier, Sidney, 1927–, American actor, b. Miami, raised in the Bahamas, returned to the United States at 15.



Looks to me like he was born in Miami and lived in the Bahamas (although he later lived in Jamaica). Where are you getting your info?

[austinsm11]

Sidney Poiter is considered jamacian and Denzel was the 1st black to win best actor. Sorry you were wrong about that one Austin!

I wonder how many people from Jamaica you have offended when you say they are not black. What racial box do they have check on a college application or job application? THey aren't white, they aren't black, what exactly are they?

I also find this strange because I have seen MANY more sites that consider Poitier to be the first black oscar winner. You have one source that says some consider Poitier to not be african-american (which doesn't exclude him from being black). I have provided many links to my sources, where are your links? Or do you not need them?

[austinsm11]

Do you think Bob Marley knew he wasn't black?

[austinsm11]

Also, an interesting note that Poitier is an American citizen. Seeing as how is ancestors were from Africa many many years ago, he is not only black but also AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

[monte81]

Also, an interesting note that Poitier is an American citizen. Seeing as how is ancestors were from Africa many many years ago, he is not only black but also AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

Whatever dude. The Oscar website I cited said he was jamacian. Anyway---if you count him what----3/4 since 1927. Denzel should have that many all by himself!

[austinsm11]

Whatever dude. The Oscar website I cited said he was jamacian. Anyway---if you count him what----3/4 since 1927. Denzel should have that many all by himself!

How insulting...in your quest to "try" to prove me wrong you label him as 3/4 black. BTW, you never did provide the link.

Was Bob Marley not black?

I don't think you are understanding that there is a difference between african-american and black. There is a debate as to if he was born in Miami, the Bahamas, or at sea. At best one could argue that he isn't African-American, but to deny him of being black is crazy. Also, he wasn't from Jamaica (although he lived there for a time), so maybe the site you found isn't the most reliable. You do realize that not every site on the internet is reliable, righ?

[austinsm11]

African-American Notables:
There have only been seventeen African-American nominations for Best Actor, divided amongst 12 different performers. Four actors (Poitier, Freeman, Washington and Smith) have been nominated twice (or more) for the top award. Some regard Denzel Washington as the first African-American performer to win Best Actor -- because previous Oscar-winner Sidney Poitier was of Jamaican descent:


Whatever dude. The Oscar website I cited said he was jamacian. Anyway---if you count him what----3/4 since 1927. Denzel should have that many all by himself!

Actually it didn't say he was Jamaican. It says that SOME regard the first African-American (not black) winner as Denzel because Poitier was of Jamaican descent. It is obvious that the website doesn't have that view because it has Poitier listed as the first African-American winner (would you like me to post your link to show you?). Why would the person doing the website say he was Jamaican and then post him as an African-American winner.

It is obvious that the "some" the website is talking about is people like you who are still "trying" to prove me wrong and consider him only 3/4 black.

[Mass6]

I know I said I was done, but the whole DT not playing linebacker so a white kid could start is ignorant. This strand has gotten out of hand and it is actually quite comical. How in the world does the Jena 6 get turned into white transfers taking black kids spots???? And whoever said Austinsm11 is from the south obviously has no clue what they are talking about as he went to school at WHS. Facts will never convince strong feelings, and this thread is a perfect example of that. I beg to be told how I, a white transfer from Perry to Massillon took the job of a black kid who was better than I. The best 11 play, and sometimes, a DB may be better than a WR, but by playing both ways tires down on both sides, therefore not making him as good at either position. Unless called upon anymore, I'm done. Have fun!

[massillon catholic]

please read MC! You brought up DT and Zwick. i said they would of started at any school they transfered. i implied others have been done in by racism by the politics of Massillon. Like I said walk in some of the blacks shoes in LA, massillon, and other places and your opinion might change.


Are you saying that politics and racism are the same? It seems that whenever a coach plays a white player over a black player who Monte thinks is better, then the coach and Massillon are racist. As much as I think Stacy is a bad coach, I would never accuse him of playing a white player over a black player simply because he's white. Nor, do I believe that Shepas, Rose, Owens, Maronto, Currence or Commings would do that. Thats as far as my history goes.
In another post, you imply that Pierce didnt get to be the QB because of his race. But, you fail to mention both Danzy's and Spencer, all three black. In fact, Massillon has had more black QB's in the last twenty years than your beloved bulldogs. C'mon Monte, I hope you are just having a few bad days. This doesn't sound like you.

[TigerFan2000]

Austinism11,

I have to say...I am impressed by your Googling and Wikipedia skills and undying committment for not being proved wrong. However, aren't you getting tired? You must have a job, family, the need to pee or poop? Don't you? This is really getting stupid...

[austinsm11]

Austinism11,

I have to say...I am impressed by your Googling and Wikipedia skills and undying committment for not being proved wrong. However, aren't you getting tired? You must have a job, family, the need to pee or poop? Don't you? This is really getting stupid...

I am actually enjoying that one is so intent of proving himself correct that he is insulting his own race. I find it hilarious that he is calling "one of his own" only 3/4 black because he was from Jamaica (which is also wrong). To say that DT didn't play defense to keep whites on the field is comical. When I am wrong, I actually admit it (rememember Ginn going higher than I thought)...which it seems is impossible for some to do.

As far as my googling skills...at least I am willing to use it to find articles and read up on things that I am not 100% certain about instead of making up my own stories.

If you think the thread is stupid, then don't read. I, meanwhile, will look forward to your excuses about the line refusing to block for DT. I'm sure that I will hear next how they refused to block for him because he was black.

[monte81]

Actually it didn't say he was Jamaican. It says that SOME regard the first African-American (not black) winner as Denzel because Poitier was of Jamaican descent. It is obvious that the website doesn't have that view because it has Poitier listed as the first African-American winner (would you like me to post your link to show you?). Why would the person doing the website say he was Jamaican and then post him as an African-American winner.

It is obvious that the "some" the website is talking about is people like you who are still "trying" to prove me wrong and consider him only 3/4 black.


I didn't say anyone was 3/4 black---I said only 3/4 blacks have even won the award since 1927! I also stated that Denzel should of won that many by himself!

OK-----Massillon always plays the best 11 regardless of race(mass6---BS on the I will be tired excuse), No racism exists in Jena, La or any other city, I said Austin lives in N. carolina not born there, and Rodney King desreved the beatdown along with WV woman, and America loves everyone! Cool with me---at least I know where you people stand!

BTW---ask any jamacian do they consider themselves black and see what answer you get---the majority say they are Jamacians!

Funny how I lived on Neale Ave. SW for 2 years and half the block were calling my kids racial slurs everyday. Funny thing was the biggest racist on the block didn't know what to do when his daughter was at my door everyday trying to play with my daughter! I laughed at him everyday!!!!

[Mass6]

If it's BS on the getting tired, how do you explain Gamble for OSU only starting Defense and playing sparingly for OSU on Offense, same as Woodson for UM. BG was even tired last year and if you didn't see that you weren't watching him. In 05 he was much faster flying to the ball on D and running the ball on O then he was in 06, mainly because he had Robinson to spell him on O. If you don't get tired, please explain why he left the field at all. Because we all know he was by far the best player on the field. And what about Daily not playing every down at WR???

[monte81]

If it's BS on the getting tired, how do you explain Gamble for OSU only starting Defense and playing sparingly for OSU on Offense, same as Woodson for UM. BG was even tired last year and if you didn't see that you weren't watching him. In 05 he was much faster flying to the ball on D and running the ball on O then he was in 06, mainly because he had Robinson to spell him on O. If you don't get tired, please explain why he left the field at all. Because we all know he was by far the best player on the field. And what about Daily not playing every down at WR???


Its all about conditioning! if these athletes of today are so much tougher and better than we were in the 70's and 80's why are they so WEAK and TIRED all the time. I played with Jerome Myricks who played EVERY down on defense and ran the ball 20 times a game the whole season never missing plays for being tired or injured. BTW--- Gamble and Woodson were not needed every snap on offense for OSU and UM because of the starters that were there. Funny I have two 6th graders who play 2 games every Saturday--one plays running back and LB for me then plays up on the 7th grade team playing DB and Rb and the other plays O tackle and nose for both teams---starters for both games on both sides of the ball. 1st game at 11am and the 2nd at 130pm. I tell you what the nose is the toughest 11year old I have ever seen play football---20 games so far this season with the playoffs this weekend. he never says hes tired, never misses practice, and smiles all day because he DOMINATES---but comes to me and says coach---I can do more!! i sit him down alot not to beat his body but then he will follow me on the sidelines until i put him back in the game! Stacy babied those kids and likes to stick to platoon football which is always going to cost us games.

Now--- jena 6 and residents of Jena need spiritual healing and togetherness to stop the racial nonsense thathas plaqued the town for way too long!

[Mass6]

Yes 6th and 7th grade football is the same as Varsity. And yes, the game has changed since you guys played. Not saying you aren't as tough, but there weren't a whole lot of spread offenses, no huddle offensed, and the game itself has evolved. If you put 11 players playing both ways that are great players, I'll beat you with 22 good (not great) fresh players. Shoot, even Doss and Jamar Martin and Kenny Peterson didn't play every play of all of their big games, they played where they were needed most, usually Defense. This is where Devoe should have played, but he decided otherwise. And where did Gamble start first at OSU??? Offense and then they moved him to D because he was needed more there.

[monte81]

Are you saying that politics and racism are the same? It seems that whenever a coach plays a white player over a black player who Monte thinks is better, then the coach and Massillon are racist. As much as I think Stacy is a bad coach, I would never accuse him of playing a white player over a black player simply because he's white. Nor, do I believe that Shepas, Rose, Owens, Maronto, Currence or Commings would do that. Thats as far as my history goes.
In another post, you imply that Pierce didnt get to be the QB because of his race. But, you fail to mention both Danzy's and Spencer, all three black. In fact, Massillon has had more black QB's in the last twenty years than your beloved bulldogs. C'mon Monte, I hope you are just having a few bad days. This doesn't sound like you.

I never said I loved the bulldogs at all and tey rarely have black Qb's either and the best QB they had they moved him to DB in 2005. Hurst, Pierce, and Slutz---I played with them and Pierce was not given the chance and hurst was thrown in because he was a hold back transfer. joe was the real deal and should of been the QB--running, throwing, emotion--he had it all!! If race didn't play a factor than the Massillon politics are PATHETIC when it comes to personel decisions---and we know that the coach aint always calling the shots! You mention Spencer, Mike and Tip Danzy. All were the best Qb's possible and Willie was maybe the best all-around athlete the entire decade. I am willing to bet that if we had a decent QB Spencer would of been WR or RB just like JT. In 1992 we didnt have much after Travis, Falando and Co. left and Mike was the best QB we had in 1991 as well but was the backup. Tip was a good QB in 96/97 but again we ran the ball 90% of the time to C. Morgan anyway!

BTW--- I am having a bad few days but doesn't change my feelings on the jena 6, Massillon race/politics, or the state of massillon football!!!

[massillon catholic]

I never said I loved the bulldogs at all and tey rarely have black Qb's either and the best QB they had they moved him to DB in 2005. Hurst, Pierce, and Slutz---I played with them and Pierce was not given the chance and hurst was thrown in because he was a hold back transfer. joe was the real deal and should of been the QB--running, throwing, emotion--he had it all!! If race didn't play a factor than the Massillon politics are PATHETIC when it comes to personel decisions---and we know that the coach aint always calling the shots! You mention Spencer, Mike and Tip Danzy. All were the best Qb's possible and Willie was maybe the best all-around athlete the entire decade. I am willing to bet that if we had a decent QB Spencer would of been WR or RB just like JT. In 1992 we didnt have much after Travis, Falando and Co. left and Mike was the best QB we had in 1991 as well but was the backup. Tip was a good QB in 96/97 but again we ran the ball 90% of the time to C. Morgan anyway!

BTW--- I am having a bad few days but doesn't change my feelings on the jena 6, Massillon race/politics, or the state of massillon football!!!

I agree that Massillon politics are pathetic. I just hope it doesn't come into play with the next coach. I'd love to see BJ Payne. If not, I'd go after Whiting. McDaniels would probably do alright, but he's always had a ton of talent and when he hasn't he has been terrible. Plus, he'll only be here a year or two then we have to go through the whole thing again. Whiting has turned Northwest around big time and has won championships at Delphos St. Johns.

[austinsm11]

BTW--- I am having a bad few days but doesn't change my feelings on the jena 6, Massillon race/politics, or the state of massillon football!!!

You can feel how ever you want and disagree with whatever you want. That is your right. I just feel like you don't at least try to look into all of the facts before you post.

I don't feel that the jena six case had ANYTHING to do with racism. If you want to say the town of Jena is racist, I disagree...but I do see how one could come to that conclusion after some reading up about the town. My problem is that I honestly don't think you have really looked into these different situations...you just seem to make blanket statements about how you feel things are.

I won't get too much into the football situations. You have MUCH more experience with that than I. I'm not going to pretend to know what goes on with the program in regards to race. As MC said though, I hope you don't confuse politics with racism.

I do apologize for misreading your statement about Poitier being 3/4 black. That is what I thought you meant. You are right that more black actors probably should have won. I can't say that for a fact because I don't know what types of movies black actors/actresses were in and what they were going up against in terms of other movies...but I think it is probably safe to assume (especially with the racism in the early to mid part of the 1900s) that some blacks were cheated out of the award.


BTW, I never said that racism doesn't exist. Cinci has one of the biggest race problems in the country....but it goes both ways. Look at my posts about Rodney King. I agree with you that was an act of racism...my only statement was that you were wrong about no cops going to jail. Look back at my posts and you won't find anywhere where I said that the rodney king case didn't involve racism. I also agree that the WV case involved racism. As far as your texas case...I don't really know what you are talking about but would be happy to read up on it if you give me some background.

Please don't misunderstand what I am saying Monte. I am fully aware that racism still exists in our country...I think that the issue has gradually improved over time though. I just feel like at times black people throw the race card way too often. I think if you step back and really think about it, you would agree. IMO it looks like it with what you have said in regards to the Massillon football program. As MC said, politics and racism are two different things and both whites and blacks have been screwed over due to politics.

[austinsm11]

Funny how I lived on Neale Ave. SW for 2 years and half the block were calling my kids racial slurs everyday. Funny thing was the biggest racist on the block didn't know what to do when his daughter was at my door everyday trying to play with my daughter! I laughed at him everyday!!!!

This is what is very sad. I would get a kick out of his daughter coming as well. It is too bad the poor influences that parents put on their children in regards to race, making them lose their innocence.

While the nooses in Jena were unacceptable, many of the teens, both black and white, did not realize the meaning behind them. The parents are the ones who got things fired up with that.

[austinsm11]

I will say that as heated (and comical) as this thread has gotten, I am impressed that it hasn't been locked yet. (Although I should probably thank Kamd for that)