I'm worried.

[WheatCity]

Sometimes I worry that we will never "uphold the tradition" like it used to be. I don't know if it is that the glory days were so long ago and we are losing the people that lived through them, if the kids don't care as much, or if life is simply to hectic now for us to focus our energies on football.

But I am worried.

And it is not just a hard loss to Iggy or a disapointing season. I'm afraid that I am noticing a trend. I ask this question, when is the last time you drove by a park and noticed kids playing football? Not organized midget or flag....but just playing. When I was growing up, we picked teams for after school games based on who thought McGuire or Ashcraft was better. It was never "if" there was a game, but "which" game you were going to play in. How many kids do you know have never been to a Massillon game? How many do you know that are indifferent or apathetic towards our traditions? If we lose our identity, what makes us different from Fremont, Mansfield, or Youngstown?

I offer this observation because I think it is something that we need to have an honest conversation about. I hate that I have the feeling that what our fathers made here is dying on our watch.

Am I nuts? Please, someone tell me I am....

[Tigerslover96]

Sometimes I worry that we will never "uphold the tradition" like it used to be. I don't know if it is that the glory days were so long ago and we are losing the people that lived through them, if the kids don't care as much, or if life is simply to hectic now for us to focus our energies on football.

But I am worried.

And it is not just a hard loss to Iggy or a disapointing season. I'm afraid that I am noticing a trend. I ask this question, when is the last time you drove by a park and noticed kids playing football? Not organized midget or flag....but just playing. When I was growing up, we picked teams for after school games based on who thought McGuire or Ashcraft was better. It was never "if" there was a game, but "which" game you were going to play in. How many kids do you know have never been to a Massillon game? How many do you know that are indifferent or apathetic towards our traditions? If we lose our identity, what makes us different from Fremont, Mansfield, or Youngstown?

I offer this observation because I think it is something that we need to have an honest conversation about. I hate that I have the feeling that what our fathers made here is dying on our watch.

Am I nuts? Please, someone tell me I am....

I have to agree with you. I can remember going to games and there was always at least 12,000 people if not more. Now we are lucky to break 8,000. Win or lose we need to stand behind our team and uphold the tradition that makes Massillon so different from other football programs. I don't know what it is going to take. It feels like we have lost some of our spark in Tigertown. We need that spark back. We need to prove that WE ARE MASSILLON and that no one can take away our great tradition.

[Tiger54]

Sometimes I worry that we will never "uphold the tradition" like it used to be. I don't know if it is that the glory days were so long ago and we are losing the people that lived through them, if the kids don't care as much, or if life is simply to hectic now for us to focus our energies on football.

But I am worried.

And it is not just a hard loss to Iggy or a disapointing season. I'm afraid that I am noticing a trend. I ask this question, when is the last time you drove by a park and noticed kids playing football? Not organized midget or flag....but just playing. When I was growing up, we picked teams for after school games based on who thought McGuire or Ashcraft was better. It was never "if" there was a game, but "which" game you were going to play in. How many kids do you know have never been to a Massillon game? How many do you know that are indifferent or apathetic towards our traditions? If we lose our identity, what makes us different from Fremont, Mansfield, or Youngstown?

I offer this observation because I think it is something that we need to have an honest conversation about. I hate that I have the feeling that what our fathers made here is dying on our watch.

Am I nuts? Please, someone tell me I am....
First of all, I understand what you are saying but after sitting thru that god-awful game in Parma I must say that you are being unfair to the defensive team who absolutely worked their hearts out that whole game. Many of them are outsized but they worked from the beginning of that game to the very end of it. You couldn't have asked any more out of a gallant bunch of kids. I will say it loud and clear, I am proud of them---play after play, they came thru for us, the Tiger Nation. And I want to personally thank Coach Kovacs who is one heck of a coach. Those kids have laid it out on the line game after game. And they are ON THE FIELD for most of the game! They are tough, inwardly and outwardly, and we are so proud of them. THEY are real Tigers! I'm not going to give names, but those kids are working their hearts out and butts off.
BUT where the heck is our OFFENSE? We have so many coaches on that field, but our offense from the beginning of the season till now has been pitiful. Don't blame it on the kids---the same kind of kids are playing offense that are playing defense. WHERE IS THE COACHING? We have a QB coach, and yet our QB hasn't been coached to get rid of the ball instead of taking humungous yardage losses? Our star running back is playing hurt, and yet we don't go into the game with any kind of passing mindset?! We didn't even make any yardage until we started passing, and we didn't pass until the very end. I feel sorry for the kids---they want to win, we want to see them win, and I believe they and we are being let down. We have so many coaches out on that field, but I don't believe they are being coached. I have never been so sick as seeing that performance Friday night. Our plays were so predictable, we showed no ingenuity, it was just a poor, poor showing of a game plan---if there was even a game plan! It was especially sad when most people feel that we have the material on that team to win these games that we are losing. Well, that's my thoughts. The part that makes me particularly sad is that the defensive team and their coaches are not being given the credit that they surely deserve.

[Red50Go]

I offer this observation because I think it is something that we need to have an honest conversation about. I hate that I have the feeling that what our fathers made here is dying on our watch.

Am I nuts? Please, someone tell me I am....

No, you aren't nuts. Very eloguently put. I think you hit upon something that gets underestimated or lost in the x's & O's and "the process" at times. I truly hope we have some forefathers left to address it, and it does get addressed.

I know it can be done. I look at Steubenville, w/ Reno, same kids, same town, and they have everything I always wanted in a coach and community. I talk to a BigRed fan at work and we often recount alot of our history together, and tradition, etc, and he just shakes his head to see ME envy HIM.

[Tiger Flame]

We are on the verge of losing our past because of some of the things that were mentioned in the above posts. We will never be able to compete at the Div. 1 level and have good success unless we are developing our feeder system at a high level . Thats where it all begins and I talked with coach Mather and he said ,that was the key to success as when he got the players in high school ,they had executed those plays a thousand times and were very good at it. We have to have a proven coach who has been a winner and who will do this. Anything short of this and we will be just another team. A coach who would like to be here for a long time and carry on the Tiger Tradition. That could be a very hard thing to get done. We are asking a coach to keep winning against larger schools and if you don,t then you are history. Thats a lot of pressure and how many coaches have been successfull and make more money with less pressure and in most cases a lot more players to work with,would want to put himself in this position. A lot of these coaches don,t have as many problems with their players as we do. I certainly hope that we can find one like this but it will be hard. This is the only way that our program has a chance to continue at a high level. About Steubenville as a power of the past and former member of the all american conference, yes they have continued to win. Their fans go see them win again and again on friday nights as they have great records and they love it. How have they been able to do this ? What has changed ? They had no control over their declining enrollment and as they fell to different levels they kept winning and carrying on their tradition. That is how they done it and their fans love it. I know that there are some posters on here who don,t want to face up to numbers but that is why they have different divisions as to try to even the competition. The only division that is out of wack is Div. 1 because there is such a huge difference in the numbers and a smaller Div.1 school is at a big disadvantage. With us being one of the smallest Div. 1 schools in the state,then we must do everything right at the foundation of our program or we will fail. Watching our program going down is killing me and I am hoping that people who have the power will do it right ! GO TIGERS--- WIN OR LOSE MASSILLON ALWAYS

[monte81]

They are in the playstation generation!! Kids would rather duplicte idols on TV than in real action sports. Thats the problem---parents send your kids outside(participate as well) armed with footballs, basketballs, baseballs, kickballs, etc,.... kids need to be more active and maybe we can kick start them out of this lazy dont wnat to do nothing mode and get back to some real activities in the neighborhoods!!!

After school they watch TV, on the weekends in front of the TV, etc,... Travis and I learned all the sports basics before we ever suited up on a football field or court by our mother and uncle Mike. we were not allowed to play Atari/Nintendo but an hour a day---PERIOD!

My brother and I played with Joe Pierce, Ashcrafts, Martins, McDews, etc,... while our parents played softball and when my mother was at work we were at the Boys club doing the same thing with the Relfords, Miller boys, Troy Manion, Mayle, Harigs, etc,....the key was EVERYDAY WE PLAYED SPORTS or some kind of physical activity No choice but to play sports and it payed off for us as tigers and in college!!!

Not to mention the city closed the youth center in 2005 on the SE side that kept alot of the kids out of trouble and wanting to play sports.

[chumly]

... I truly hope we have some forefathers left to address it, and it does get addressed....



Be assured it is being addressed by some of the "forefathers." I know of a few of them who have been on the horn this past weekend and will be this week after what happened in Parma.


What about that nostalgia? Remember the Rotch Raiders, the Medill Monsters, the Stratford Steelers, (insert your team) and all those other neighborhood sandlot teams all over Massillon we had growing up? Well, those were special days...we had heros we imitated and those heros were Massillon Tiger football players; in my younger days it was Mike Mauger, Denny Franklin, Tom Hannon, etc - those were glorious years...

I even remember being in my early grade school years and the Massillon elementary schools played each other. It was a flag football program back then, but we even looked up to the sixth graders on the team. In my case it was the Whittier Wildcats (Blue and Yellow, go figure). You had that intense sense of rivalry know matter what level you played at or who you were watching. The Rotch Raiders were going to kick the sh*t out of the Medill Monsters this week....wherever we played, whoever we played, neighborhood teams, pick-up games or whatever (remember when we'd have 30 guys on a side playing football at recess time?) we were all Massillon Tigers in our minds. During football season, it was football seven days a week and what's wrong with that? We were and are Massillon! Sandlot, watching or playing in Jr High games (things started to gradually change when they closed Jones Jr High) - intense rivalries between LA, Longfellow and Jones. Everything pointed to Friday Nights. We all religiously wore those crazy orange and black ribbons from the booster club (those "Beat Whoever" ones) - they passed them out in every schoolroom in Massillon, every week. Your student ticket was as good as gold. We knew every player's number, ht, wt, stats.

We also had a few (not nearly as many as we've had in this decade) bad teams and mediocre-bad coaches - remember "Enough with Shuff?" (Those were dark days: financial problems, old stadium in disrepair, the La Cuisina tragedy - Massillon survived).


Still, all is not lost. Massillon has a pretty damn rich history for a little town - both on and off the field! If you wanna talk about a slice of Americana - Massillon was it and still is in my mind.

[Obie Wan]

I even remember being in my early grade school years and the Massillon elementary schools played each other. It was a flag football program back then, but we even looked up to the sixth graders on the team. ... During football season, it was football seven days a week and what's wrong with that? We were and are Massillon! Sandlot, watching or playing in Jr High games (things started to gradually change when they closed Jones Jr High) - intense rivalries between LA, Longfellow and Jones.
And I still think that the new Middle School will prove to be an athletic (and educational) mistake.

[chumly]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: I broke my leg in second grade in a scrum on an icy school playground (we were playing "smear the queer"). And my parents didn't even file a suit against the school system - can you imagine that?

[WheatCity]

I agree with TigerFlame in regards to a feeder system. We need a football identity.
Somewhere in that book, 'Massillon Memories' , I can't recall who mentions it, but he said that the boys that grew up in Massillon were not athletes, they were football players. Because of declining enrollment, I don't see a future in which we are consistantly bigger, faster, or more athletic than other D-1 teams. But we are football players.
We need to find a coach, and I'm not necessarily saying that Stacy isn't that coach, that IS MASSILLON. Like a football patriarch, the ordained successor to Brown, Mather, Bruce, etc. Someone who wants to stay here and perhaps, someone we won't run out of here at the 1st sign of trouble. We need a new approach.
The steel in this town is gone, but what about the steel in our resolve to keep Massillon special.

[WheatCity]

Good Point, Chumly.
My kid broke his arm playing football at recess last year. In the hospital, he told me he could learn to snap the ball w/ his left hand before his next flag football game. Never been prouder.

[Obie Wan]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: I broke my leg in second grade in a scrum on an icy school playground (we were playing "smear the queer"). And my parents didn't even file a suit against the school system - can you imagine that?

These days you would get sued because of the name of the game. I can see it now: a bunch of 7-year-olds sitting through sensitivity classes.

[Seeker]

These days you would get sued because of the name of the game. I can see it now: a bunch of 7-year-olds sitting through sensitivity classes.

My son plays the game in Boy Scouts, but they have a new name for it. (I forget what it is.)

The kids now call it "New Name - Used to be Smear the Queer."

Oh well, at least the adults tried.:dance:

[WheatCity]

I think the state of the MTSB accurately reflects the severity of the situation. There is what, 50-60 kids in the band? It used to take up the entire field. You couldn't hold a conversation with the person next to you during halftime.

[massillon catholic]

They are in the playstation generation!! Kids would rather duplicte idols on TV than in real action sports. Thats the problem---parents send your kids outside(participate as well) armed with footballs, basketballs, baseballs, kickballs, etc,.... kids need to be more active and maybe we can kick start them out of this lazy dont wnat to do nothing mode and get back to some real activities in the neighborhoods!!!
some kind of physical activity No choice but to play sports and it payed off for us as tigers and in college!!!



Are you saying that kids from other teams that are kicking our butts aren't playing play stations?

[Seeker]

I think the state of the MTSB accurately reflects the severity of the situation. There is what, 50-60 kids in the band? It used to take up the entire field. You couldn't hold a conversation with the person next to you during halftime.

Separate but equal issue.

[WheatCity]

Separate but equal issue.

I don't see how it is seperate. I assume that you would agree that it is a vital part of our tradition.

[monte81]

Are you saying that kids from other teams that are kicking our butts aren't playing play stations?

No!! But they are working alittle bit harder on the field! No team we have played so far is more talented than our team but we lack work ethic and discipline! The playstation is the generation of LAZINESS!!!

We don't even use half the stuff we have to make use better---$200,000+ weight rooms, best facilities in the State and we couldn't even get half the team to workout last winter!!! PLATSTATION GENERATION!!!

[WheatCity]

Are you saying that kids from other teams that are kicking our butts aren't playing play stations?

Good point. I think the problem is societal. We have lost something, somewhere.

[WheatCity]

No!! But they are working alittle bit harder on the field! No team we have played so far is more talented than our team but we lack work ethic and discipline! The playstation is the generation of LAZINESS!!!

We don't even use half the stuff we have to make use better---$200,000+ weight rooms, best facilities in the State and we couldn't even get half the team to workout last winter!!! PLATSTATION GENERATION!!!

This is really abstract, but is it possible that our town's transformation from hard nosed industrial town to depressed service economy has had an effect on parenting styles. When we were growing up, I don't think we were allowed in the house until it was dark. The kids only play what we let them.

[Tiger54]

I think the state of the MTSB accurately reflects the severity of the situation. There is what, 50-60 kids in the band? It used to take up the entire field. You couldn't hold a conversation with the person next to you during halftime.
What band are you looking at---there are more than 50-60 kids in that band. When I was in the band, we had 64 in it---8 ranks of 8 kids and trust me, there are more kids in there now. We have a VERY good director now for our band and that band will come back. Let's compare bands between Massillon's and Ignatius. . .

[monte81]

This is really abstract, but is it possible that our town's transformation from hard nosed industrial town to depressed service economy has had an effect on parenting styles. When we were growing up, I don't think we were allowed in the house until it was dark. The kids only play what we let them.

My kids especially my boys are not sitting in the house all day! I go out to the field/court with them to teach them who to be winners! Regardless of financial, economy or city status you have to keep parenting.

[chumly]

uh oh? Band talk on this thread....we need to take this out on an icy playground somewhere

[Marie]

Most of the younger kids are in daycare when they are not in school. I don't imagine your allowed to play football at daycare, you might get hurt and sue them. In the summer you can't find enough kids in most neighborhoods to play a game of football or baseball. I know when I walk in my neighborhood early in the mornings I see parents leaving for work piling their kids in the car for daycare. Almost all the Mothers work now and when I was young no Mothers worked.

I think parents feel guilty for not staying home with the kids so they give them everything and make them "soft." They don't want the coach to discipline their kid and hurt his self esteem. IMO that is alot of the problem today.

[chumly]

...hurt his self esteem...

Yes, the single hyphenated word that will be the downfall of our great society:
"self-esteem"

[chumly]

Poor self-esteem...

Hell, the Muni Judge's kid growing up, his nickname was "Barf" what a riot! It stuck with him, I think to this day.

[monte81]

Most of the younger kids are in daycare when they are not in school. I don't imagine your allowed to play football at daycare, you might get hurt and sue them. In the summer you can't find enough kids in most neighborhoods to play a game of football or baseball. I know when I walk in my neighborhood early in the mornings I see parents leaving for work piling their kids in the car for daycare. Almost all the Mothers work now and when I was young no Mothers worked.

I think parents feel guilty for not staying home with the kids so they give them everything and make them "soft." They don't want the coach to discipline their kid and hurt his self esteem. IMO that is alot of the problem today.


PLAYSTATION GENERATION!!!

[massillon catholic]

Good point. I think the problem is societal. We have lost something, somewhere.


We have lost the Tiger mentality. It can only be brought back by someone who was born and raised a Tiger. This started years ago with the influx of Tuslaw/Fairless folks being placed in administration positions. For Massillon to get back on top, we need past Tigers running the program from top to bottom. The administrators the past 10-20 years are more worried about what others think than worrying about the tradition at Massillon. We need coaches who get after players, not coaches who aren't allowed to cuss! We must get back to what made Massillon, Massillon and not anything else. This isn't the time to be taking out our neighbors trash, but rather getting rid of the trash we have!

[actoral]

The TIGER football program will unlikely be the same as years gone by, not so much because of society, but distribution of the talent base. All schools have the same type of disractions; video games, PC's, cell phones and the like . Like most schools the success will probably be cyclical based on demographics. There are no longer many (if any) rural kids on the team. Many of the kids who Massillon counted on in the "glory years" now attend and play for Tuslaw, Perry and Jackson. The coaches have to play with hand that is dealt them and no amount of fan criticism can make the players better. As I have stated in another post, the TIGERS can still have a winning season. This rubbish about scrapping this season to build for the future is just that. Play to win. These seniors deserve the best effort from themselves and the fans. Go TIGERS, Beat Buchtel.

[Red50Go]

MC, do you remember the comments from the selection committee last time? I wont name him but I highly doubt he every played a sport let alone football. "You dont have to yell to teach kids." "You can be nice guy and a good coach." Along those lines. I just have to laugh.

Man, I thought Shep was SO close to being a great "Tiger" coach in so many aspects. If he could have only been a bit older and wiser.

[Red50Go]

Quit blaming society. We can make kids work if we MAKE them work. Giminy christmas we have 15 position coaches lets get a drill seargent/conditioning coach to replace Stu if we have to. Run til you puke. Lift til you puke. Keep your mouth shut. Practice til its right. And come out a man.

You guys are all saying the same thing. We need to outwork the other guy and no reason why we cant. We just dont.

[chumly]

...the TIGERS can still have a winning season. This rubbish about scrapping this season to build for the future is just that. Play to win. These seniors deserve the best effort from themselves and the fans. Go TIGERS, Beat Buchtel.


While I don't agree with some of what you say in your post, I absolutely agree with you in that this season is not oevr til it's over...

I don't care if Stacy is gone after this year. Right now, he owes it to the players and the players owe to him and the other coaches to go out and give 100% and do everything they can restore a little respect to the football program, and I don't doubt they will And the fans better come out and be Massillon Tiger fans, no matter how miserable 3 yards and clod for field turf might be to watch.

[TigerVic]

No!! But they are working alittle bit harder on the field! No team we have played so far is more talented than our team but we lack work ethic and discipline! The playstation is the generation of LAZINESS!!!

We don't even use half the stuff we have to make use better---$200,000+ weight rooms, best facilities in the State and we couldn't even get half the team to workout last winter!!! PLATSTATION GENERATION!!!

How many "fat" players did you see on the field for Ignatius- or even huge in-shape players? None.

[89tiger]

I agree with Monte81..You cant teach Heart!..You cant Teach Drive! Thats something that has to be within you! But it all starts with PARENTING!! Bottom-Line! Keep the kids active; I know just about every kid has a Playstation, or an Xbox, or whatever! But keep them active on the outside too! I have a Son thats been playin Football since he was 4 years old (flag)! He's 11 now and all that is payin off! He's a three sport player (Football,Basketball and Baseball). Its up to the parents to keep these kids focused! Our 2005 team didnt have as nearly as much talent as we have this year BUT...They had the "RIGHT MENTALITY" to accomplish the things that they did! Our 2002 Team was the most talented in the 2000 era! BUT! They were'nt focused and didnt have the Heart of our 2005 Team! We have to get back to that ONE HEART! ONE TEAM! Mentallity. BottomLine!

[Kenny M.]

Lots of great comments. I agree with pretty much all of them. I think the other part of the problem is that because of the economy, most of us had to leave the area for education/work -- and have never returned -- which means a great group of people/kids that hold the same values are no longer in Massillon City Schools. I recently went to my class reunion and you wouldn't believe the amount of ultra-successful people in my graduating class -- all Massillon born, bred and educated.

Something is definitely missing in kids/parents nowadays. Between the Playstation and the rest of society's ills, I hope we're not lost.

[MichiganMike]

Massillon has changed alot since I was young. I grew up there in the 70's when Massillon was a strong self supporting community. People that lived in Massillon moved there because that was the place to be. We had heard of Jackson Township but wasn't sure of where that was, and Perry was... (well some things haven't change that much). We had to have a 16K seat stadium because that is what was required to seat every one that went to the football games.
The 80's seemed to really suck the life right out of of the Massillon (and Canton, and Akron). Companies like Eaton, Republic, Ecko, Perry, Tyson, Steel Castings, Superior, etc. all gone. All the downtown stores and bars are gone. The railroads are gone. The Massillon City and State hospitals are gone. Hell, even the Tremont Viaduct is gone. There was a LOT of money in Massillon at one time, and that money is all gone. I'm gone!
I love the town I grew up in, and I wish nothing but the best. I see the changes over the years but you cannot blame the kids or coaches for loosing a few football games. I grew up in a time that it was rare to hear of Massillon loosing a football game, though it happened from time to time. Computer points took away the "popular vote" which does not take away from the era, it just changed the dymanics of winning it all.
Massillon is a good community with good schools and a good football program. Its just a different time.

Never NEVER loose the pride!

[CarlE]

I LOVED that post. Thanks, Mike for putting it all in perspective.

[man2man]

Things change. Towns change. Technonology, parenting styles, social attitudes all change. Sad but true. Well written post Mike.

[Submariner]

Massillon has a name with meaning. That meaning comes in the form of football first, tradition, and support. When Massillon comes to Warren for a game, that game alone I see more black and gold worn than at any other time of the regular season. Why? Because Massillon is coming to town! You better get your "A" game on, because here they come! I view things a little differently on some issues like this one. What I mean is: some fans will say kick'em while they are down. Not me. I am equally concerned for Massillon like Harding because there is a public school bond there that needs to be recognized by the masses and talking about it does mean you care, even though right now you and we are frustrated. Are we spoiled?--perhaps. Many years of success and some promises of future glory can lead us down that path. Like Massillon; Harding has other teams and their fans out there that wish us a down year every year. I guess it comes with the territory.

We play Iggy this week at home, interesting to see our sophomores against their seniors. Tigers, continue to play hard, and another poster is right, it does start in the feeder systems. It also starts with the head coach to motivate the JV, Freshmen, Junior High coaches and further on down the line to pee-wee football coaches. If there is one thing I know, Massillon will be alright. This is coming from an outside perspective. Remember, nothing lasts forever--including down times!

[chumly]

Nice post MichiganMike - It was a great place to grow up and still a great place to call home.

[Smitty]

... I am equally concerned for Massillon like Harding because there is a public school bond there that needs to be recognized .... We play Iggy this week at home....

YOU get it.

God bless.

Good luck to the Raiders vs Iggy.

[Mr.Deedee]

Been away for a while and just now began reading this post. I guess the first thing that struck me reading WheatCity's first post in which it is mentioned "traditions" was WheatCity's use of the leaping tiger as the logo. THAT is not tradition in Massillon--perhaps his/her logo should be changed back to our Obie. I know this sounds silly but I think introducing the leaping tiger was the beginning of the watering down of our traditions. It almost seems like an "Obie Curse." I talked to Jim Rubin (owner of Tiger Rags) not long ago and he explained to me how he has to order his Massillon apparel (which by the way Howard's has probably the best selection of Massillon clothes around). He said that the young kids don't want Obie any more--they want the leaping tiger. So he has to order separate supplies to satisfy the young people and the traditional Obie to satisfy us old folks. We should dump the leaper and make Obie present on ALL Massillon things.

Times do change and it is quite difficult for us older, entrenched Tiger fans. I still think the support for the football program will be there--it will just be different. Believe it or not, I think this change in our young people's thinking has a silver lining. It used to be that we were considered a "closed community" and very provincial with only a one track mind. Nowadays, I think our kids have been exposed to a whole big world out there and have become more cosmopolitan in their outlook. They have many more interests in life and that is not all bad. I see it in my kids and sometimes it is actully refreshing. We have to adjust, as tough as it is.

[Go Hooter Go]

They are in the playstation generation!!

I agree, but I also think that support and interest in High School Football is either dying to being devoted to something else.

A lot of Cities used to have tremendous support before the 90's, however that has died down also to just hard core fans and parents.

Now at Fremont Ross, we never had as much as tradition has Massillon, I doubt any ever has, but the support was always there.

Attendance across the State has been dropping for years and seems to have leveled off but could drop more until all the Old School Fans are no longer around.

[fisherl]

Massillon tradition is nothing like it used to be...and I see it all over the place with the football team, the coaches, the band, the cheerleaders, and the fans. For example when I was in school (and it wasn't all that long ago) if you back talked a coach or got in a coach's face like I have seen this season then you were sat on the bench, if not removed from the football team...now it's just get your helmet on and get out there. They are not forced to show respect. With the band, not only in the numbers but in the way they react to situations...for example, when I was in the band you didn't dare talk while the other band was on the field and if you were out of line when we watched the video on Monday you spent all of Monday's practice running laps, these kids are lucky to watch video...can't fix it if no one says it's broken. Times are different and yes the kids today are the playstation generation but if they are taught that then that is what they are going to do. But kids have to be taught balance, my kid gets out and plays football almost all year long regardless of whether it is football season or not. He plays Playstation too. He also does very well in school, so he is only 8 and has his heart already set to play Massillon football, he won't dare let us miss a game and he doesn't care win or lose, and I love that about him. We also need to realize that times have changed, it isn't really easy to let your child go so far away from home to play football or anything by himself because it just isn't as safe as it used to be, times are different and we all need to realize that. What Massillon needs right now is someone who was Massillon football when Massillon football was the thing to do on Friday night. Someone who understands the tradition here because the truth of the matter is in order to know Massillon tradition you have to have been a part of it and not too many of the people calling the shots here fit that description, they are just here to do a job and they are forgetting that we are Massillon.

[91' alum]

Massillon has a name with meaning. That meaning comes in the form of football first, tradition, and support. When Massillon comes to Warren for a game, that game alone I see more black and gold worn than at any other time of the regular season. Why? Because Massillon is coming to town! You better get your "A" game on, because here they come! I view things a little differently on some issues like this one. What I mean is: some fans will say kick'em while they are down. Not me. I am equally concerned for Massillon like Harding because there is a public school bond there that needs to be recognized by the masses and talking about it does mean you care, even though right now you and we are frustrated. Are we spoiled?--perhaps. Many years of success and some promises of future glory can lead us down that path. Like Massillon; Harding has other teams and their fans out there that wish us a down year every year. I guess it comes with the territory.

We play Iggy this week at home, interesting to see our sophomores against their seniors. Tigers, continue to play hard, and another poster is right, it does start in the feeder systems. It also starts with the head coach to motivate the JV, Freshmen, Junior High coaches and further on down the line to pee-wee football coaches. If there is one thing I know, Massillon will be alright. This is coming from an outside perspective. Remember, nothing lasts forever--including down times!

Interesting perspective... But a good one. We as cities are very much alike. Both have had their glory days. We depend on the success of our sports to keep the system running. We can't afford to have down seasons, although inevitable. We've lost so much as a community we depend on the sports to keep us going. Sad but true. We must alway keep our heads up. Never let them get us down. It's what so many others want. Never let them have that.
Good pt about Massillon is coming. Must play our A game. Same can be said about the Raiders. When Solon and Normandy beat us you think that was just another win to those schools? I think not. Those kids will never forget that as long as they live. They beat Massillon. We must alway keep fighting back!!!

[giajay54]

It's simple. Just win.

[DaveDawg]

We (Canton-Massillon) are two school systems going through many of the same things, but if you look at most of the CITY schools in the state, how many are having banner years this season?

ECONOMY! ECONOMY! ECONOMY!

Levy's not getting passed is number one. The state needs to step in and find a way to do better with the present system - every system needs more money and not more from tax payers because they are not going to get more.

People, like myself, do not live in the system they want to support. It is very hard to contribute time to program living an hour away.

People remaining in the district invest in someone else taking charge of the problem(s). Most only come around for winning, the numbers that show up now for McKinley and Massillon, do so when the team, weather and coach is good and the gas prices not to high and and extra money and effort mean added support.

Things are working against the success of our cherished programs, we need to start planning for new resources. Until then we all might have to get used to what is happening.

[Submariner]

Interesting perspective... But a good one. We as cities are very much alike. Both have had their glory days. We depend on the success of our sports to keep the system running. We can't afford to have down seasons, although inevitable. We've lost so much as a community we depend on the sports to keep us going. Sad but true. We must alway keep our heads up. Never let them get us down. It's what so many others want. Never let them have that.
Good pt about Massillon is coming. Must play our A game. Same can be said about the Raiders. When Solon and Normandy beat us you think that was just another win to those schools? I think not. Those kids will never forget that as long as they live. They beat Massillon. We must alway keep fighting back!!!

Hey 91' Alum and everyone else on this post:

History goes in cycles. In Warren there are neighborhood associations full of parents, grandparents that want things back the way they used to be as far safe streets, towns etc. goes. Football fans in Massillon and Warren and Canton want the same thing--great football, and some consistency out of our systems. It all centers around Tradition. Tradition centers around the memories people living now have of the past and it is up to all of us to try and get it back, you know make-things come full circle. Yes we all took some severe lumps manufacturing wise, I guess we have to move on to the in-things of more tech jobs, green this and that. We may never get back to the high population numbers of the 70's/ 80's and 90's. But (I think) now is the time to start backing each other (support wise) as traditional football towns. We need to be concerned not just of our specific own town, but others towns with good football like us. A great start is this very forum right here where we can finally talk together. You wear Black and Orange, I wear Black and Gold, Canton wears Black and Red. Those are the only differences between us. History is made when we play each other and something to look forward to for future meetings. If we are to bring back some form of the glory years it has to start with the youngest playing right now. Massillon will get it back all it takes is the right person at the right time in the right place.

[MTigers006]

Giminy christmas we have 15 position coaches lets get a drill seargent/conditioning coach to replace Stu if we have to.

You dont replace Coach Studer. Noone had more heart, spirit, character, and work ethics than Coach Studer. He had a special ability to bring out the best in a person. Coach Steve Studer was the most amazing person I have or could ever meet. Coach Steve Studer was and always will be held dear, a part of this community, and mostly SPECIAL. Those are the things you just dont or cant replace. He was a man's man.

Go Hard, Or GO AWAY - Coach Steve Studer

[Red50Go]

Giminy christmas we have 15 position coaches lets get a drill seargent/conditioning coach to replace Stu if we have to.

You dont replace Coach Studer. Noone had more heart, spirit, character, and work ethics than Coach Studer. He had a special ability to bring out the best in a person. Coach Steve Studer was the most amazing person I have or could ever meet. Coach Steve Studer was and always will be held dear, a part of this community, and mostly SPECIAL. Those are the things you just dont or cant replace. He was a man's man.

Go Hard, Or GO AWAY - Coach Steve Studer

Agreed. Stu was the best, God rest his soul. So go out and get the 2nd or 3rd best if thats how you want to call it. Honor his legacy.

[MTown]

As much as I respect that history and tradition of that family, and what Steve meant to the program....he would be the first to acknowledge that he was NOT bigger than the program. We need to put him behind us and find the next guy that motivates our boys.

We won 21 state titles before he came around....it can still be done, we just gotta find the right Massillon guy to do it. We might not even need to go outside of that family.

[Vosh]

This is a very interesting thread and not the easiest one to contribute to. I grew up in Massillon until I was 15 when our family moved away. My class of 1971 did pretty well I think you'd all agree, but I missed out of those glorious times. My Dad worked for Paul David and the job took us to GA.

Through the years, whenever I wear an Obie I ALWAYS have 2 or 3 people come up to me wanting to talk about Massillon. Once, after a concert I mentioned Massillon and a person in front of me turned and invited my wife and me to dinner just so she could ask us questions about Massillon. Her grandparents were born there, grew up there, fell in love there and she wanted to verify some of the stories she had heard...

Massillon is a one of a kind, very special place because it is "The City of Champions". And not only because of football but because of EVERYTHING. If you wanted to be on the debate team, then be the best; the choir, then be the best; the band, then be the best--- be a champion! I grew up with belief that I could do whatever I wanted to do IF I worked hard enough and was willing to help my teammates succeed too. It wasn't just about me, it was about doing my part to help our team, our choir, OUR whatever.

So now what can we do to make a difference? If I lived in Massillon (and I just put a contract on a new condo there) I guess I'd join the Booster Club, become an Orangeman and offer to mentor someone, so that I'd have some direct contact and an opportunity to be a positive influence. But since I'm not there yet, how about giving people like me, who care about Massillon but live elsewhere, a chance to donate money to a non-profit organization that will manage the resources in a way to help make things better? It could be the Massillon Proud Foundation and the Board of Trustees would be people who are plugged in well enough to discern where the money is needed most and put our money to its best use!

The Paul David Foundation is doing some very worthwhile things and God bless them for their generosity and concern, but let's mobilize "the Tiger Nation" outside of Massillon and give the rest of us a chance to be a meaningful part of our team!

[MTigers006]

Vosh, well said. The community needs to reach beyond being fans or a fanbase and get more involved in the program. Instead of fighting and bickering against the coaches lets work with them and the team. This is how we can help them and keep traditions here alive and well. I have always wanted to get more involved and need ideas on how I can be a part of the exciting action and the traditions that is Massillon Football. I can also be a pretty good motivator as well because let me tell you I been through some tough stuff in my life, but mostly I know how to motivate myself and others. I use our pride, traditions,and identity to do so. I always work hard at everything I do and people ask and I just tell them im from Massillon. We do everything top notch 110% around here. Being from Massillon and being proud of that has lit a fire within me and I wanna share it with the kids. Remember its not a priviledge to wear that uniform with Massillon on your chest. ITS AN HONOR!

[tigerpride]

Mr. Deedee

Just a note. Hate to break it to you, but Obie hasn't always been the perfered mascot. When I was in school it was the tiger head. You know fierce Tiger not Obie. Not don't get me wrong Obie is okay I just don't want him for a mascot. And yes, when I go to Howard's I get the leaping Tiger, the mean one (the one who looks strong and defiant).

But to each his own.

[WoodyHayes]

Ditto to the neighborhood games and games at the Bottoms and Sheffield.
It has nothing to do with "the age" we are in. Case in point. Pull up the Gilmer Buckeyes on the internet and take a look. Three weeks ago a stud that played for Mckinley came down to see me. I took him to watch the Gilmer Buckeyes. Town of about 6 thousand with 5 Big Time (Texas, OU) recruits. The team is mixed in both race and is predominately poor. The coach talks, there butts take a knee. Friday nights no one is in town unless you are working (if you are the radio is on. Sound familiar) Remember listening to the Tigers on the radio play Upper Arlington. Every kid is playing pee wee or flag or sandlot football. The traditions of Gilmer do not die, due to the old timers busting it in these kids azzes by the time they can walk. Traditions do not die!!!! They are murdered! There is no #1 on any jersey in Gilmer. Play as a team or get the he-- out. If anyone pulls up the website, Nelson is a player that died of cancer this year after battling it for 2. He will ALWAYS be a captain (tradition) The point is that people better step in and bring the dang traditions back!

[TigerBob75]

When I look at the present day Tigers I don't see anything that comes near to being tradition. When I look at our Tigers I see too much copy. Lets see, where did that cartoon tiger come from? The pretty uniforms. How many other teams have a big M in their stadium? What did people do, look around and say hey I like that, bring it here. WE ARE MASSILLON!!! There's no other city with that name. WE are Massillon. We don't copy nobody. When teams use to beat us that was their season. Obie, I'm sorry tigerpride, but to me Obie is massillon football. When you see Obie you immediately know that's Massillon. You were either liked or disliked when others saw you with Obie's emblem on. It was just because... In my opinion, if you want anything close to tradition again, I would first get rid of that Hamilton Tigercat helmet. That 1998 helmet in the helmet project :thumbsup: No more fancy uniforms. Keep them plain and simple with the biggest Massillon that can fit the front. An Obie on the sleeve. Take that M out of the stadium. Put the biggest Obie that can go there. Take a look at the gym floor. Nice. You take and explain to each young man the history of Massillon football. You tell them what it's going to take to be a Tiger. And if they don't want to abide with it then there's the door. I'm probably missing a lot of other things I want to say, it's late. I think that most people can close their eyes and can sort of pitcher what I'm writing about. Just one man's opinion. :gotigers:

[Mass6]

When I look at the present day Tigers I don't see anything that comes near to being tradition. When I look at our Tigers I see too much copy. Lets see, where did that cartoon tiger come from? The pretty uniforms. How many other teams have a big M in their stadium? What did people do, look around and say hey I like that, bring it here. WE ARE MASSILLON!!! There's no other city with that name. WE are Massillon. We don't copy nobody. When teams use to beat us that was their season. Obie, I'm sorry tigerpride, but to me Obie is massillon football. When you see Obie you immediately know that's Massillon. You were either liked or disliked when others saw you with Obie's emblem on. It was just because... In my opinion, if you want anything close to tradition again, I would first get rid of that Hamilton Tigercat helmet. That 1998 helmet in the helmet project :thumbsup: No more fancy uniforms. Keep them plain and simple with the biggest Massillon that can fit the front. An Obie on the sleeve. Take that M out of the stadium. Put the biggest Obie that can go there. Take a look at the gym floor. Nice. You take and explain to each young man the history of Massillon football. You tell them what it's going to take to be a Tiger. And if they don't want to abide with it then there's the door. I'm probably missing a lot of other things I want to say, it's late. I think that most people can close their eyes and can sort of pitcher what I'm writing about. Just one man's opinion. :gotigers:

And a great opinion that is!!!!!! I couldn't agree with you more. We need to get back to the tradition that is Massillon. It's not Mean mascots, fancy uniforms, arguing players, disrespecting yourselves by slamming down your helmets. Massillon was all about making you fear who they were when you lined up across from them. Massillon players never cared about what they wore, how they looked, just about how bad they could beat their opponents. We need those type of teams back!!! Bring back the Tradition!!!

[TigerKrazyFan]

:iagree: Sometimes I worry that we will never "uphold the tradition" like it used to be. I don't know if it is that the glory days were so long ago and we are losing the people that lived through them, if the kids don't care as much, or if life is simply to hectic now for us to focus our energies on football.

But I am worried.

And it is not just a hard loss to Iggy or a disapointing season. I'm afraid that I am noticing a trend. I ask this question, when is the last time you drove by a park and noticed kids playing football? Not organized midget or flag....but just playing. When I was growing up, we picked teams for after school games based on who thought McGuire or Ashcraft was better. It was never "if" there was a game, but "which" game you were going to play in. How many kids do you know have never been to a Massillon game? How many do you know that are indifferent or apathetic towards our traditions? If we lose our identity, what makes us different from Fremont, Mansfield, or Youngstown?

I offer this observation because I think it is something that we need to have an honest conversation about. I hate that I have the feeling that what our fathers made here is dying on our watch.

Am I nuts? Please, someone tell me I am....

I do not think you are nuts. Things are changing especially since technology has taken over the backyard. Kids stay home and use their thumbs to work the video games. They do not play like they should. So they are overweight and out of shape. So we lose more often. The good news is... everyone has to deal with the same problem- not just massillon. The question is what can we do to change this? Get good inspiring coaches.:iagree:

[MichiganMike]

Ditto to the neighborhood games and games at the Bottoms and Sheffield.
It has nothing to do with "the age" we are in. Case in point. Pull up the Gilmer Buckeyes on the internet and take a look. Three weeks ago a stud that played for Mckinley came down to see me. I took him to watch the Gilmer Buckeyes. Town of about 6 thousand with 5 Big Time (Texas, OU) recruits. The team is mixed in both race and is predominately poor. The coach talks, there butts take a knee. Friday nights no one is in town unless you are working (if you are the radio is on. Sound familiar) Remember listening to the Tigers on the radio play Upper Arlington. Every kid is playing pee wee or flag or sandlot football. The traditions of Gilmer do not die, due to the old timers busting it in these kids azzes by the time they can walk. Traditions do not die!!!! They are murdered! There is no #1 on any jersey in Gilmer. Play as a team or get the he-- out. If anyone pulls up the website, Nelson is a player that died of cancer this year after battling it for 2. He will ALWAYS be a captain (tradition) The point is that people better step in and bring the dang traditions back!

You cannot compare Massillon, OH to Gilmer, TX. Gilmer is a little podunk town where there is nothing else to do BUT play football. Massillon was sort of a Gilmer in its day, but times HAVE changed. The population surrounding Massillon is nearly three times that of Massillon itself. Massillon is no longer the center of the community, it is becoming a suburb of Jackson.

[Striker300]

I do not agree that we can't produce the same level of talent that we used to. The whole structure of the football program has changed since the '70's. Before that the community was much more involved in helping the program. Booster meetings were full. We had as many or more Sideliners than we had players. The town controlled the team. The coach was just another part of the whole scheme. Many coaches went through our system but the system didn't change. At one time coaches came here happily to better their career. You could be a winner at Massillon regardless of what you did elsewhere. This was because we as a community built a team from the time the kids first started playing, by the time they were in H.S. they were already experienced.
Not the same anymore and no Titles either. It is not the coach or declining enrollment or that the kids are different, it is the town that is different, and if we want back the great teams of the past then we must start bringing back the things that made them great. Great H.S. teams are made by involvement
from all.

[TigerCarl]

We've been on a downhill slope ever since Paul Brown left town. Each head coach along the way has lost a little something of the Massillon Tiger tradition.

I don't think we have much more tradition left to lose. And I've been worried for years about this problem.

We need someone who can give us a fresh start, and then build the program from there. I'm not thinking we can re-build on the old tradition because there's not many people left who actually recall what it was or how it worked.

Our greatest hope rests with YOU, the younger fans. YOU can get involved with the program. YOU can join the Booster Club. YOU can join the Sideliners. YOU can do so very much that needs to be done around town.

40 years ago, when I was a young man in my mid-twenties. I became aware that there was a poor income neighborhood with some kids that were on the bad edge of things. I took the kids (ages 9-13), and started coaching them in football. I went around Massillon and got them some sandlot pickup games with other neighborhoods. Only one of my kids was good enough to go on to play for the Massillon Tigers -- but that was ONE more than we would've had on the team a few years later. And I also had the gratification of helping out some kids who needed to start doing positive things in life. After that lone season, the kids in that neighborhood went on to organize themselves into a team, and each year after that they taught the younger ones coming up.

This is just one example of things YOU can do to help the Masillon kids, as well as give a tiny boost the Massillon football program. Not many sandlot players go on to become Massillon Varsity players. But it's a start. We do this thing one neighborhood at a time, one lad at a time. You have to care enough to put a little time into it.

You really need to contact the coaching staff and the president of the Booster Club and ASK what YOU can do to help. Don't just sit in the stands and bemoan what we've lost. Do what you'd have our kids do -- get you butts out there and work for the program as hard as you can. Do EVERYTHING you can do to help, and be quietly modest about it.

Thank you for tolerating an old man living in Florida talking about what people living in Massillon need to do. I truly regret that I can no longer live in Tigertown, my home since birth. But I do what I can to help.

[monte81]

TigerCarl---I would love to support the kids if only I could gain some decent employment in the area.

[hrmjenl]

I agree with the sentiments that some of what made Massillon, Massillon, has started slipping away. It's evident everywhere, not just on the football field itself. Times have definitely changed, the demographics have changed, school lines have changed etc but that shouldn't be the demise of the traditions. We have to work harder to keep them at the forefront. You don't see as many decorated cars or houses anymore so maybe we should step that up. The family that went to Wendy's to paint the paws on the drive-thru lane, keep the traditions alive and visible! It's very difficult to do so when our own schools are letting those mainstays slip away - the high school doesn't do weekly pep rallies anymore, they get to do "selected" games only. How can our kids carry on traditions that have already been taken away? My daughter looks at my yearbook and is just amazed at our rallies, pictures of the student sections at away games, the events during McKinley week that no longer happen (skits, theme days, etc) and she is not only jealous but she's sad. "You guys had so much fun, it must have been awesome to go to school then! We don't get to do anything. No one has any spirit." I feel sad for her, that she doesn't get to experience some of what made my high school years incredible - that unstoppable, I-bleed-orange-and-black PRIDE that eminated from walking in the front door of the school, from wearing Massillon on your shirts, jackets, shorts and knowing it MEANT something, it wasn't just a word. I'm positive it's still that way for some but nearly as many. It's a battle but I'm sure we can win it!! Keep the tradition alive!!

[tigerpride]

Why should any of this lack of spirit surprise any of you. It's the administration we have. Remember you can't be good at both sports and academics so we're concentrating on the academics part wouldn't want to have too much fun and besides the students might be harder to control.

Then there's that little matter of becoming part of the fed that we have been working on so hard.

With the people who are leading us, you know all those that are born and bred Massillonians and thus have a clue about the tradition that goes with Massillon?