Our problems?? NO Strength training

[TigerSupport]

The squat is much more dangerous and has it's risks.

[OTC TIGER]

The squat is much more dangerous and has it's risks.

Executed correctly the sqat actually strengthens the knee joint as well as stimulating growth through out the whole body...as a football player the squat
will help with balance as well...you will not get this with the leg press.

[TIGER4LYFE]

well i am a student at whs and just these last couple of weeks we have started box squatting in class and after school workouts and i really enjoy it more then leg press even though we still do leg press. Is there any difference between box squats and regular squats ?

[BigTime]

well i am a student at whs and just these last couple of weeks we have started box squatting in class and after school workouts and i really enjoy it more then leg press even though we still do leg press. Is there any difference between box squats and regular squats ?

TIGER4LYFE I assume that you must be a football player on the power lifting team, I wish you well over the course of the off-season! Good luck and don’t take too much of what you read here to heart. TTT is the internet equivalent of folks talking over “a cup of coffee”. Just know that A LOT of people LOVE the Massillon Tigers and want the best for the program (even if they individually don’t know what that may be).

And remember the simple message that appears on the back wall of the weight room, “Train at a level where your opponent is unable or unwilling to go”. You will win your first 3 games of the season between now and August.

GO TIGERS! BASH BUCHTEL!

[Mass6]

TIGER4LYFE I assume that you must be a football player on the power lifting team, I wish you well over the course of the off-season! Good luck and don’t take too much of what you read here to heart. TTT is the internet equivalent of folks talking over “a cup of coffee”. Just know that A LOT of people LOVE the Massillon Tigers and want the best for the program (even if they individually don’t know what that may be).

And remember the simple message that appears on the back wall of the weight room, “Train at a level where your opponent is unable or unwilling to go”. You will win your first 3 games of the season between now and August.

GO TIGERS! BASH BUCHTEL!

Great post! Right now you should be focusing all of attention on bettering your team. The best thing about these boards is that (if they are reading) it gives the kids some motivation to prove people who doubt them wrong. Work hard, respect yourself, team, coaches, and opponents and realize that you always have a little more in the tank. Good Luck Tigers.

PS, If I understood it corretly, the box squat teaches you to get low in your squat and eliminates momentum when your butt hits the box. Correct me if I'm wrong Slobby and Blackswarm3

[johnb]

Check this out. Interesting how easy it is to forget the problems of the past. I read somewhere that Maronto is seen as a lock in getting into the Florida High School Football Coaches Hall of Fame. Imagine if Massillon fans had any patience.

http://www.biggerfasterstronger.com/p_magDetails_NoMember.asp?id=260&previd=15

[Obie Wan]

I read somewhere that Maronto is seen as a lock in getting into the Florida High School Football Coaches Hall of Fame. Imagine if Massillon fans had any patience.
Maronto is to Massillon as Belichick is to the Browns. Neither was anything close to the coach that they turned out to be, both have credited their initial failure as being instrumental in their subsequent success -- and firing both was absolutely the right call in the context of the time.

[TigerSupport]

I was talking to one of the players who informed me that our strength training regime is lax.Then i remembered what devoe said at the begining of the season about his workouts being harder at canton south.I dont recall us loseing the battle of the line of scrimage so often.This is a possibility.Lets not stick our head in the sand.We need to look at the facts here and fix this.You don't just replace a Steve Studer

I know this post is extremely old, but it's been eating at me forever. Coach Stacy has brought in how much new weight room equipment? Something like $85,000 worth of new equipment? (give or take, I'm not sure of the exact amount) And I know a few players off of the top of my head who would say that they're making excellent gains from the weight program.

You can't correlate the weight room with losing the line of scrimmage with last year's team (normally you could). When you have 5 or more kids pushing 400 lbs and absolutely refusing to get into shape, you will not win the line of scrimmage. Period.

[TigerSupport]

But I guess it's up to Coach Stacy and Coach Stacy ONLY to hold their hands, walk them through a weight loss program, visit them eat night, cook their meals, make sure they're eating healthy, remove the hidden sweets and candies from their bedrooms so they can't eat them at night, then tuck them into bed, then kiss them goodnight.

[mike_da_man13]

I know this post is extremely old, but it's been eating at me forever. Coach Stacy has brought in how much new weight room equipment? Something like $85,000 worth of new equipment? (give or take, I'm not sure of the exact amount) And I know a few players off of the top of my head who would say that they're making excellent gains from the weight program.

You can't correlate the weight room with losing the line of scrimmage with last year's team (normally you could). When you have 5 or more kids pushing 400 lbs and absolutely refusing to get into shape, you will not win the line of scrimmage. Period.

hoban's starting O-line couldnt average more than 190lbs and yet they held their own against powerhouses like st.v.st.m.
on a seperate note i personally made the biggest strides my senior year doing the legpress rather than the squat perhaps thats why i like it more.
question for you supporter.
why would you reward laziness by letting them see the feild? btw i do not blame the coach for running the football like we did this year we did not have a good passing or running for that matter style qb.

[man2man]

But I guess it's up to Coach Stacy and Coach Stacy ONLY to hold their hands, walk them through a weight loss program, visit them eat night, cook their meals, make sure they're eating healthy, remove the hidden sweets and candies from their bedrooms so they can't eat them at night, then tuck them into bed, then kiss them goodnight.

Exactly. Anything less is unacceptable. And when he is done with all his varsity responsibilities, he needs to attend every pee wee game and middle school practice.

[Kamd50]

You can't correlate the weight room with losing the line of scrimmage with last year's team (normally you could). When you have 5 or more kids pushing 400 lbs and absolutely refusing to get into shape, you will not win the line of scrimmage. Period.

To further touch upon what mike_da_man13 was pointing out. Maybe the coach was unable to influence these kids who, as you say "absolutely refused to get into shape", but he sure as heck had the power to sit them on the bench if they could not/would not comply! How hard is that to figure out? If a kid refuses to cooperate, follow rules, or do what is best for the team, then he is NOT a team player and should not be allowed the PRIVILEGE to run out onto PBTS field on Friday nights! Whether it is an issue of weight, missing practices, playing a certain position,fighting amongst themselves; it is all inexcusable!

Other seniors, juniors, or jv's should have been given the opportunity to replace ANY players who showed disrespect to the coaches, who refused to be cooperative, who thought they were bigger than the program, who weren't willing to bust their behinds, or any other number of lame excuses that have been given for the behavior on the team this year. I don't care what any parent, player, fan, administrator, or anyone else, no matter who they may be ,has to say. The HC has GOT to be able to say the buck stops here! That is the way it is in any head position.

Bottom line is that it IS the HC's responsibility to take control, set the rules, and then make sure he doesn't back down when it comes time to applying them.

There were no such discipline problems on the freshmen team as there was on Varsity this year. The kids knew the rules and adherered to them or faced the consequences. If a kid had an unexcused missed or late for a practice, then he didn't get to start. If a kid argued with any of the coaches, they paid for it after practice and likely didn't make the same mistake twice. These coaches were able to field a team where there was respect, discipline, cohesiveness and team spirit. A real joy to watch. There is no good reason these things weren't achieved on Varsity.

[Mass6]

To further touch upon what mike_da_man13 was pointing out. Maybe the coach was unable to influence these kids who, as you say "absolutely refused to get into shape", but he sure as heck had the power to sit them on the bench if they could not/would not comply! How hard is that to figure out? If a kid refuses to cooperate, follow rules, or do what is best for the team, then he is NOT a team player and should not be allowed the PRIVILEGE to run out onto PBTS field on Friday nights! Whether it is an issue of weight, missing practices, playing a certain position,fighting amongst themselves; it is all inexcusable!

Other seniors, juniors, or jv's should have been given the opportunity to replace ANY players who showed disrespect to the coaches, who refused to be cooperative, who thought they were bigger than the program, who weren't willing to bust their behinds, or any other number of lame excuses that have been given for the behavior on the team this year. I don't care what any parent, player, fan, administrator, or anyone else, no matter who they may be ,has to say. The HC has GOT to be able to say the buck stops here! That is the way it is in any head position.

Bottom line is that it IS the HC's responsibility to take control, set the rules, and then make sure he doesn't back down when it comes time to applying them.

There were no such discipline problems on the freshmen team as there was on Varsity this year. The kids knew the rules and adherered to them or faced the consequences. If a kid had an unexcused missed or late for a practice, then he didn't get to start. If a kid argued with any of the coaches, they paid for it after practice and likely didn't make the same mistake twice. These coaches were able to field a team where there was respect, discipline, cohesiveness and team spirit. A real joy to watch. There is no good reason these things weren't achieved on Varsity.

THANK YOU!!!! This is what I've been trying to tell these guys in other threads but it doesn't sink in. Discipline problems on the team directly correlate to a HC that doesn't fix the problem. It is his job, whether you guys like him or not, to take control of his team and he didn't. That should have lead to others playing and the trouble players being benched.

[Tiger54]

THANK YOU!!!! This is what I've been trying to tell these guys in other threads but it doesn't sink in. Discipline problems on the team directly correlate to a HC that doesn't fix the problem. It is his job, whether you guys like him or not, to take control of his team and he didn't. That should have lead to others playing and the trouble players being benched.
AMEN, to both of you. If the HC doesn't have the power to do something about the players "who refuse to get into shape," then who does? You don't "fix things" by going to the newspaper two years in a row saying that you can't get the players into the weight room. You just tell them that if they don't work out, then they don't play in the fall. And when you let a player play in a game who hasn't shown up for practice all week long, what are you telling the players who DO the things they are supposed to be doing? When you tell the newspaper after a loss that you don't know what is wrong, what you need to do----what does that tell you? I think we need to find a coach who is a true leader of our young men and do the things that this coach promised to do when he originally got the job. Things like even-handed discipline. . . .things like actually being there for our kids, letting them know that the coach really cares for them. . .

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

Kamd50,

You bring up some sound points. The freshmen team you knew were going to give it their all under a man of head coach Tim Menches' integrity as he is an emotional leader who wears his emotions on his sleeve. Players like to play and win for a veteran like that.

Now I don't have any leads on what issues concerned the varsity team but it all comes down to accountability. Everyone can look at the head coach all they want but it comes down to this: a player has to look at themselves in the mirror and see where their heart and soul is at. Coaches can only do so much but in the end, it comes down to how badly the player wants it.

As I mentioned, there are seven Massillon graduates on the staff...they did their part when they were Tigers athletes The current player has to be willing to set their mold and cast.

Being a mother of four and native of the city, you take pride in the Massillon program and it's athletes. But would your perception change if you weren't a Massillon native?

[crackerman]

Kamd50,


As I mentioned, there are seven Massillon graduates on the staff...they did their part when they were Tigers athletes The current player has to be willing to set their mold and cast.

How many are paid assistants on varsity staff? Just curious

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

crackerman,

All seven of them are paid.

[crackerman]

crackerman,

All seven of them are paid.

name them. There are not 7 paid Tiger Alums on the Varsity staff.

[shortbev]

tiger54 is exactly right when he says that if you do the work, you play...and if you don't, you don't get the privilege of putting on a Massillon Tiger uniform...too many want the privilege without doing what is needed to be a successful tiger...

sadly, that is what our society is being taught in general...they haven't learned about "work ethic"...this is one of those intangibles of life a kid is taught from sports or group activities...we are teaching our kids to expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter...including a state championship just because they are "the Massillon Tigers"...

was watching a segment on tv last night about sports...these kids were told they got their names on the back of their jerseys if they put in X amount of hours in the off season, especially during the summer...and if they did not do that, they did not get their names on the jersey...one can quickly see who had worked hard, and who had not...a little shaming there for the ones who had not...those who had were very proud of the fact...and worked hard to achieve that privilege...

[hrmjenl]

OMG! Ok I've been biting my tongue reading this thread as well as all the others concerning Coach Stacy's responsibilities or lack thereof. I am the General Manager of the business where I am employed. In this capacity I am ULTIMATELY responsible for all aspects of the organization. I am paid for that responsibility. I have department heads and assistant managers that are DIRECTLY responsible for their areas but in the end the success or failure is on MY shoulders. If I have assistants that I have put in charge of a specific task or responsibility that aren't performing to my standards, then they face disciplinary action or are let go.

Coach Stacy IS the General Manager of the Massillon Tiger Football program. He is not expected to be physically present at every single activity (ie all MMS games) or DIRECTLY responsible for every single aspect of the program but HE IS DEFINITELY 100% ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL ASPECTS OF THE OPERATION AS WELL AS THE SUCCESS OR FAILURE. He IS RESPONSIBLE for the performance/behavior of everyone under him, INCLUDING players. If they don't adhere to his expectations, rules, policies etc they are to be HELD responsible for the consequences their actions have incurred.

My children all know if they miss a practice they may miss playing in the game. They know not to be disrespectful to any of their coaches. They know that whatever their coach tells them to do, they have to do it regardless of whether they disagree or simply don't want to do it, including switching positions.

[CarlE]

OMG! Ok I've been biting my tongue reading this thread as well as all the others concerning Coach Stacy's responsibilities or lack thereof. I am the General Manager of the business where I am employed. In this capacity I am ULTIMATELY responsible for all aspects of the organization. I am paid for that responsibility. I have department heads and assistant managers that are DIRECTLY responsible for their areas but in the end the success or failure is on MY shoulders. If I have assistants that I have put in charge of a specific task or responsibility that aren't performing to my standards, then they face disciplinary action or are let go.

Coach Stacy IS the General Manager of the Massillon Tiger Football program. He is not expected to be physically present at every single activity (ie all MMS games) or DIRECTLY responsible for every single aspect of the program but HE IS DEFINITELY 100% ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL ASPECTS OF THE OPERATION AS WELL AS THE SUCCESS OR FAILURE. He IS RESPONSIBLE for the performance/behavior of everyone under him, INCLUDING players. If they don't adhere to his expectations, rules, policies etc they are to be HELD responsible for the consequences their actions have incurred.

My children all know if they miss a practice they may miss playing in the game. They know not to be disrespectful to any of their coaches. They know that whatever their coach tells them to do, they have to do it regardless of whether they disagree or simply don't want to do it, including switching positions.

GREAT post equating it to the business world. I can't wait to see how some of the geniuses on here interpret this one.

[Kamd50]

Kamd50,

Being a mother of four and native of the city, you take pride in the Massillon program and it's athletes. But would your perception change if you weren't a Massillon native?

To answer your question, Keno, NO! my perception would not change, regardless of where I was born or resided. To me, that was a very silly question. And yes, coaches can only do so much as far as inspiring or even insisting on results from the individual players, BUT when that doesn't happen, Keno, the coach does have the final say as to whether that kid is going to be rewarded (for giving their all and complying )or be benched for not heeding the coach's instructions and mandates FOR THE GOOD OF THE TEAM. You can't control anyone's actions, ultimately but you can control how you react to them.

I am glad to see that others like Mass6 and 54 get what I was saying though. hrmjenl, that is exactly what I was saying in my post. What I don't get is how anyone else who has any common sense whatsoever, could disagree with a clear conscience.

[hartville tiger]

Who cares where the coach lives as long as he wins. Do you think all of the teachers in massillon live in massillon. You make the coaching job sound like a police or firemen,s job where city residency is a requirement.

[OTC TIGER]

Who cares where the coach lives as long as he wins. Do you think all of the teachers in massillon live in massillon. You make the coaching job sound like a police or firemen,s job where city residency is a requirement.

:wtf:

Guess what...city residency is NOT a requirement in Massillon :doh:

[Tiger54]

To answer your question, Keno, NO! my perception would not change, regardless of where I was born or resided. To me, that was a very silly question. And yes, coaches can only do so much as far as inspiring or even insisting on results from the individual players, BUT when that doesn't happen, Keno, the coach does have the final say as to whether that kid is going to be rewarded (for giving their all and complying )or be benched for not heeding the coach's instructions and mandates FOR THE GOOD OF THE TEAM. You can't control anyone's actions, ultimately but you can control how you react to them.

I am glad to see that others like Mass6 and 54 get what I was saying though. hrmjenl, that is exactly what I was saying in my post. What I don't get is how anyone else who has any common sense whatsoever, could disagree with a clear conscience.
Thank you so much for your eloquent response. Isn't this football banquet going to be interesting??! I hope the kids who DESERVE the awards are the ones who will receive them. The kids who worked hard, didn't cause any problems, were leaders and role models, the ones who will look back on their experience and know that they did their very best. . . need I say any more?

[Tiger54]

Who cares where the coach lives as long as he wins. Do you think all of the teachers in massillon live in massillon. You make the coaching job sound like a police or firemen,s job where city residency is a requirement.

We have gone over that subject, in fact, over and over it. You can't tell ONE candidate for the job that it is a requirement and then let your selected candidate NOT be required to move to Massillon. Do you get it? That is only one small part of this problem. The question will be, will he continue to live in Canal Fulton when he gets his next job?

[Kamd50]

Who cares where the coach lives as long as he wins. Do you think all of the teachers in massillon live in massillon. You make the coaching job sound like a police or firemen,s job where city residency is a requirement.

Where in the heck did this comment even come from? We were not discussing this issue at all. You must have totally misunderstood Keno's question and then my reply about having a different perspective if I was not a Massillon native, I assume.

[CarlE]

Who cares where the coach lives as long as he wins. Do you think all of the teachers in massillon live in massillon. You make the coaching job sound like a police or firemen,s job where city residency is a requirement.

For the 9 millionth time, everyone KNOWS that it isn't a requirement. The problem here is that some coaches were eliminated from contention because they said upfront that they weren't going to move, unlike the current coach who said he WOULD move and then didn't. THAT is the underlying problem here. Go back to the beginning of the process. That is where this came out with genius AH running the game.

[Mass6]

For the 9 millionth time, everyone KNOWS that it isn't a requirement. The problem here is that some coaches were eliminated from contention because they said upfront that they weren't going to move, unlike the current coach who said he WOULD move and then didn't. THAT is the underlying problem here. Go back to the beginning of the process. That is where this came out with genius AH running the game.

I would save your fingers from typing to some of these guys, they just don't get it!!!

[Seeker]

OK, one last time.

From the Inde on June 10, 2005 when the final interviews were set up:

"Massillon’s 10-member interview committee whittled down a group of seven candidates to three this week; Wadsworth High’s Greg Dennison, Strongsville High’s Russ Jacques, and Ashland University’s Tom Stacy. All three were to go before the board of education and Superintendent Al Hennon for a final interview today.
That changed when Hennon telephoned Jacques to set up his appointment.
“I called him and he had some questions,” Hennon said. “Russ asked how strongly we felt about residency and I told him we felt strongly about the coach living here.
“Then he asked for some time to talk to his family. I gave it to him and he called me back.”
That’s when Jacques pulled out of the running."

"Stacy, who has a daughter who is a sophomore in high school, indicated he will move to Massillon if he’s hired.
“I’m going to move, it’s just a matter of when,” he said. “The nice part is it’s not like you have to do it next week.
“I do think it’s important you live in the school district you work in.”"

If Hennon or someone else later told Stacy that he didn't have to move, someone needs to man-up and tell the public that.

[CarlE]

And that folks, ends THAT. There is no more proof that the post above with direct quotes from the parties involved. I can't WAIT to see how some of you guys respond to this one. Oh, man2boy??? TigerSupport? Others in the "real" Inner Circle???? LOL.

[OTC TIGER]

[QUOTE][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][I]"Massillon’s 10-member interview committee whittled down a group of seven candidates to three this week;
A complete waste of time..

Wadsworth High’s Greg Dennison, Strongsville High’s Russ Jacques,
Candidates in name only..

and Ashland University’s Tom Stacy.

The guy from day 1...

[Benchboss1]

If Hennon or someone else later told Stacy that he didn't have to move, someone needs to man-up and tell the public that.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[/SIZE]


We all know that AH will NEVER man up. He does not have the ability to do that. He will NEVER admit that the last coaching "search" was nothing but a dog and pony show that he TOTALLY controlled!

[TigerSupport]

And that folks, ends THAT. There is no more proof that the post above with direct quotes from the parties involved. I can't WAIT to see how some of you guys respond to this one. Oh, man2boy??? TigerSupport? Others in the "real" Inner Circle???? LOL.

Again...place of residence = state championships = happy fans....lol:help:

[TigerSupport]

For the 9 millionth time, everyone KNOWS that it isn't a requirement. The problem here is that some coaches were eliminated from contention because they said upfront that they weren't going to move, unlike the current coach who said he WOULD move and then didn't. THAT is the underlying problem here. Go back to the beginning of the process. That is where this came out with genius AH running the game.

And isn't one of those coaches struggling? Who gives a flying flip?

[TigerSupport]

To further touch upon what mike_da_man13 was pointing out. Maybe the coach was unable to influence these kids who, as you say "absolutely refused to get into shape", but he sure as heck had the power to sit them on the bench if they could not/would not comply! How hard is that to figure out? If a kid refuses to cooperate, follow rules, or do what is best for the team, then he is NOT a team player and should not be allowed the PRIVILEGE to run out onto PBTS field on Friday nights! Whether it is an issue of weight, missing practices, playing a certain position,fighting amongst themselves; it is all inexcusable!

Other seniors, juniors, or jv's should have been given the opportunity to replace ANY players who showed disrespect to the coaches, who refused to be cooperative, who thought they were bigger than the program, who weren't willing to bust their behinds, or any other number of lame excuses that have been given for the behavior on the team this year. I don't care what any parent, player, fan, administrator, or anyone else, no matter who they may be ,has to say. The HC has GOT to be able to say the buck stops here! That is the way it is in any head position.

Bottom line is that it IS the HC's responsibility to take control, set the rules, and then make sure he doesn't back down when it comes time to applying them.

There were no such discipline problems on the freshmen team as there was on Varsity this year. The kids knew the rules and adherered to them or faced the consequences. If a kid had an unexcused missed or late for a practice, then he didn't get to start. If a kid argued with any of the coaches, they paid for it after practice and likely didn't make the same mistake twice. These coaches were able to field a team where there was respect, discipline, cohesiveness and team spirit. A real joy to watch. There is no good reason these things weren't achieved on Varsity.

Yeah that's a great theory, except for the fact that the kids behind the 400 lbs-ers weren't any better, so the best / most experienced had to play.

[Kamd50]

Yeah that's a great theory, except for the fact that the kids behind the 400 lbs-ers weren't any better, so the best / most experienced had to play.

Lol, that is total baloney!

[CarlE]

And isn't one of those coaches struggling? Who gives a flying flip?

I'm sorry. Is there some relevance to that statement? And was there a dispute to my post in there somewhere? If so, I certainly missed it.

[austinsm11]

Yeah that's a great theory, except for the fact that the kids behind the 400 lbs-ers weren't any better, so the best / most experienced had to play.

Why? If the kids behind them aren't any better, are you implying that they also aren't any worse? If they are close to equal, why play the kid who won't listen and do what the coach asks?




Regardless, Who cares if they aren't any better, if the "starters" aren't doing what coach asks of them then they sit the bench. If this philosophy is adopted very early on, then players know that they have a choice to do what coach asks (lose weight, play a different position, whatever) or they will lose their starting spot. Once this position is set and players actually see a teammate or two sitting on the bench they will get the picture.

I benched two of my best players for a half because they missed the practice before one of our biggest games...only had one other time where a kid skipped a practice (one of the same ones who obviously didn't learn). Didn't have anyone skip after that.
Started one of my worst players for a game because he was the only one working hard in practice...this got everyone to pick it up for the next practice.

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

Kamd50,

I apologize for getting under your skin. I didn't intend to do that with what I asked. But the blaming of Coach Stacy is just ridiculous.

[Kamd50]

Try to understand this, Keno. The blame goes in not dealing with the actions/nonactins of individual players in a firm and consistent manner as to set the tone for discipline on the team.