Middletown game

[roodboyroody]

The tigers started off with a slow start but finished out strong. Devoe is the real deal, he should play both sides of the ball more often than he did tonight. Our kicking game tonight was solid thanks to my boy Steven Schott!! Overall i think we played well due to the heat tonight. You could just see all the potential on the field tonight.:gotigers:

[angelinamarie]

What was the final score?
I moved to NC and didn't catch the ending score.
Thanks in advance.

[Marie]

42 to 21.

[TIGER27]

My only major concern was the predicitability of our offense for the most part whenever Clark was in we would run the ball and with Wiloughby we would throw more often. The running game started slow but that had a lot to do with Deveo and KJ being keyed on. Torrence is the real deal and Turner was great at Corner. ONE THING I DIDN'T LIKE WAS STARTERS BEING IN THE GAME WITH 3 MINUTES LEFT UP 21 POINTS BOOBY MILES AND FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS ANYONE?

[tiger#22]

My only major concern was the predicitability of our offense for the most part whenever Clark was in we would run the ball and with Wiloughby we would throw more often. The running game started slow but that had a lot to do with Deveo and KJ being keyed on. Torrence is the real deal and Turner was great at Corner. ONE THING I DIDN'T LIKE WAS STARTERS BEING IN THE GAME WITH 3 MINUTES LEFT UP 21 POINTS BOOBY MILES AND FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS ANYONE?

It is week 1 and 90% of the starters have no varsity experience, it wasnt like they were throwing fade routes and trying to run up the score.

[Tigers53]

No, no fade routes, but handoffs to Torrence, who, after the last TD comes up limping.

[Philpott]

My major concern was the O-Line. I think they improved as the night progressed.

[Fats]

My only major concern was the predicitability of our offense for the most part whenever Clark was in we would run the ball and with Wiloughby we would throw more often. The running game started slow but that had a lot to do with Deveo and KJ being keyed on. Torrence is the real deal and Turner was great at Corner. ONE THING I DIDN'T LIKE WAS STARTERS BEING IN THE GAME WITH 3 MINUTES LEFT UP 21 POINTS BOOBY MILES AND FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS ANYONE?
You need to keep starters in to get them ready to play a full game. The time is coming when the game is close and they better be ready and conditioned to play a full game. This is Football!

[TIGER27]

Yeah keep them in till they get hurt we're gonna go as far as Deveo takes us. And with a broken leg I dont even think he can play.

[DAWGH8R]

Yeah keep them in till they get hurt we're gonna go as far as Deveo takes us. And with a broken leg I dont even think he can play.

He broke his leg ???

[pyromaniac]

He broke his leg ???

No. He was just making a statement that if he did break it he couldn't play.

[MTown]

With Solon coming in next week, and us trying to get all of our first year starters up to speed as quickly as possible...why would we not want our kids on the field? Besides, it's not as if they played every single play to that point....we had major substitutions the entire game with the heat and humidity.

I certainly hope people are not underestimating this Solon team we have coming in and the important of getting our kids ready for that test.

[pyromaniac]

If this was week 8 and we were winning by 3 TD's, then I say you take the starters out, but in the 1st week you have to keep them in there to get them used to playing 4 quarters.

[oldtimer]

I was impressed with our POTENTIAL! The offense, the ENTIRE offense seemed to gel as the game went on, the backs ran more confidently, the cubes seemed to alternate without a major problem. Kudos to the o-line, there were huge questions coming into this year about them, and they seemed to answer the call as the game progressed. The special teams were a slight disappointment, missing a fg, (my god! Steve missed!), a fumble on the return, falling for a fake punt, (later cancelled by a penalty), not realizing NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD KICK LONG TO #3, and #24, or #22, or #1. On the plus side, the kick returns made were usually to near midfield, and Steve was perfect on XP's. The D, was the most successful part of the team, imho, they blew the first pass, but were on top of things most of the night. Just what you look for in an opener, a win over a good team, not a DC or Canadian team. Lots of room for improvement in every facet of the game. Doggone, if we actually fire on all cylinders, we could be one very special team!!!!! GO TIGERS!!! BEAT SOLON!

[TigerVic]

I'm glad we had a game to talk about and build on!

[Benchboss1]

My major concern was the O-Line. I think they improved as the night progressed.



Did they? Or did Middletown's d-line just run out of gas in the second half? If the latter is true, it does not mean that we were actually blocking any better. I think that it speaks volumes when we HAVE to give the ball to our 275 pound fullback just so we can score from the 1 yard line between the tackles.

[CarlE]

Did they? Or did Middletown's d-line just run out of gas in the second half? If the latter is true, it does not mean that we were actually blocking any better. I think that it speaks volumes when we HAVE to give the ball to our 275 pound fullback just so we can score from the 1 yard line between the tackles.

If you have a 275 pound fullback isn't he SUPPOSED to be carrying the ball in from the 1? Why do you have him?

[Benchboss1]

If you have a 275 pound fullback isn't he SUPPOSED to be carrying the ball in from the 1? Why do you have him?

I understand what you are saying CarlE, but it was because we could not block well enough to get the tailback into the endzone, even with a lead block from the fullback. I can recall at least two plays where the fullback could not even get to the line of scrimmage to block for the tailback because our line was not moving the pile.
I hope this clearifies my previous post a little.

[Seeker]

If you have a 275 pound fullback isn't he SUPPOSED to be carrying the ball in from the 1? Why do you have him?

Kinda wondered about that myself.
I know I'm ignorant about this stuff, but if you need a touchdown and have a pretty sure way of getting one, don't you go with that instead of taking a chance?

[Benchboss1]

Kinda wondered about that myself.
I know I'm ignorant about this stuff, but if you need a touchdown and have a pretty sure way of getting one, don't you go with that instead of taking a chance?



I guess some people were not able to see that the tailback could NOT get into the endzone due to a lack of a push from the offensive line. Just because we scored the touchdown does not mean all is well. Keep in mind that this was the first game and there were scouts in the stands from future opponents. Don't you think they saw that we had trouble getting in the end zone between the tackles with the tailback and just might key on Yoder?

[monte81]

Scouts---I saw Ursiline and Solon coaches in the stands.

On the offense---- we need to show more of our speed package. DT, JT KJ and G-Jack should NEVER leave the field on offense. Although the defense eventually held up---we have work to do. I think if Stacy is going to alternate series with Devoe and KJ then Devoe needs to be at linebacker ALL GAME---PERIOD!! Turner was an all out animal at corner--scary but an animal on ball hawking and jumping to pass routes--he covered alot of field last night. The oline was not great but performed well overall. Dorie Irvin's pass rush was great and Hildreth has the heart of a tiger.

Overall we were predictable but effective!! I think Stacy held back on some formations on offense and played several alternates on defense to gain confidence in the backups! He is preparing for a winter date with St. X!!

BEAT SOLON!!

[Benchboss1]

Scouts---I saw Ursiline and Solon coaches in the stands.

On the offense---- we need to show more of our speed package. DT, JT KJ and G-Jack should NEVER leave the field on offense. Although the defense eventually held up---we have work to do. I think if Stacy is going to alternate series with Devoe and KJ then Devoe needs to be at linebacker ALL GAME---PERIOD!! Turner was an all out animal at corner--scary but an animal on ball hawking and jumping to pass routes--he covered alot of field last night. The oline was not great but performed well overall. Dorie Irvin's pass rush was great and Hildreth has the heart of a tiger.

Overall we were predictable but effective!! I think Stacy held back on some formations on offense and played several alternates on defense to gain confidence in the backups! He is preparing for a winter date with St. X!!

BEAT SOLON!!



Monte, I agree with all of your post except the part about how well JT played at corner. I saw number 10 running by him on several occasions, not just the first play of the game. I do believe that he will become a tremendous corner, just may get beat a few times in the process. I bet that he will bring at least 2 back the other way for touchdowns this season.

[pyromaniac]

I guess some people were not able to see that the tailback could NOT get into the endzone due to a lack of a push from the offensive line. Just because we scored the touchdown does not mean all is well. Keep in mind that this was the first game and there were scouts in the stands from future opponents. Don't you think they saw that we had trouble getting in the end zone between the tackles with the tailback and just might key on Yoder?

While I am not questioning your observation, I do feel that if you have the ball inside the 5 and have a 270 lb. fullback, you give him the ball and make them stop him. Even if they are keying on him, keying is one thing, actually stopping him is entirely another. In those situations, it is not the time to get cute. Run the obvious and make the defense stop you.

[Benchboss1]

While I am not questioning your observation, I do feel that if you have the ball inside the 5 and have a 270 lb. fullback, you give him the ball and make them stop him. Even if they are keying on him, keying is one thing, actually stopping him is entirely another. In those situations, it is not the time to get cute. Run the obvious and make the defense stop you.

So are you agreeing that we could not get in with the tailback, and if you are, does that NOT worry you? Also, it was not like Yoder walked into the end zone, he barely scored himself. Maybe this only concerns me and I am off my rocker.:huh:

Again, just because we scored, do not let that cover up the problem.

[pyromaniac]

So are you agreeing that we could not get in with the tailback, and if you are, does that NOT worry you? Also, it was not like Yoder walked into the end zone, he barely scored himself. Maybe this only concerns me and I am off my rocker.:huh:

Again, just because we scored, do not let that cover up the problem.

Anybody who was watching the game could see we could not score with the tailback on the one series. However, when we used our strength, which is speed to the outside, DT walked into the end zone untouched with Yoder leading the way. My opinion is when inside the one, you either hand it to the first guy through, which would be the fullback or take it outside. It never made sense to me to give it to a guy 5 or 6 yards off the line and go straight ahead. I don't get too worried, especially since this was the first game.

[monte81]

Monte, I agree with all of your post except the part about how well JT played at corner. I saw number 10 running by him on several occasions, not just the first play of the game. I do believe that he will become a tremendous corner, just may get beat a few times in the process. I bet that he will bring at least 2 back the other way for touchdowns this season.

he reminded me of Deion Sanders because he baited the Qb to thinking he was beat. The first play the Tigers were in a cover 2 which fails on the safeties to pick up the man---Kenny Pettis just bit on the play and was out of position(but played very solid the rest of the way). I knew teams would test our DB's losing 2 Db's to DI colleges and Trey was also solid last year. However I think JT's natural position may be as a DB in college!

[Fats]

If this was week 8 and we were winning by 3 TD's, then I say you take the starters out, but in the 1st week you have to keep them in there to get them used to playing 4 quarters.

You are right.

[captain]

Bench,

As you have stated (other posters have expressed similar concerns), there are problems with our o-line. In your opinion, how do we fix these issues. You have spent some time posting about this issue, so I would guess you have some thoughts as to how we can address your concerns.

[massillon catholic]

Bench,

As you have stated (other posters have expressed similar concerns), there are problems with our o-line. In your opinion, how do we fix these issues. You have spent some time posting about this issue, so I would guess you have some thoughts as to how we can address your concerns.


Counters, Traps, Screens are needed to help out the O-Line. Running up the middle or off-tackle will not get it done. In addition, Torrence needs to be out there more on offense and defense.

[Massillon7]

Bench,

As you have stated (other posters have expressed similar concerns), there are problems with our o-line. In your opinion, how do we fix these issues. You have spent some time posting about this issue, so I would guess you have some thoughts as to how we can address your concerns.

The first thing that will help is to get our best offensive lineman back on the field.

I don't know if any1 watched any 2-a-days or the lineman challenge, but I did, and Keith Dingler was the best 1 we had.

He sadly severely hurt his ankle the last day of 2-a-days and is out until week 3 or 4. Hopefully when he comes back it will inscribe confidence and toughness back into our O-line and greatly help with that upfront push thats worrying so many people.:gotigers:

[captain]

Massillon7,

I agree that "Ding" is a very good o-linemen and it will be nice to have him back, however, I doubt that BenchBoss will agree that Ding's return will take care of Bench's issues with the o-line. Am waiting for Bench's recommendations to rectify the o-line issue.

[Benchboss1]

First of all captain, after last years performance, I would have issued an offseason ultimatum to some of our linemen, lose ALOT of weight or you will not be playing this season.

As the head coach, I would go out and hire the VERY best offensive line coach I could find. I just find it hard to believe that we haven't been able to develop a better offensive line than we have in the last 10-15 years.

The next thing I would do is put the 5 best blockers I had on the line, not just the biggest. Nobody can convince me that last season, Yoder could not have played offensive line even with his injury. As for this year, how about trying Rose at one guard and Yoder/S. Clark at one tackle, opposite Dingler when he returns. Until he does, use both Clark and Yoder at the tackle spots.
I know having Yoder and Clark at fullback is nice, but if we can't get any type of straight ahead push from the o-line, then things need to be fixed with the personnel. If that means using a little less talented player at fullback, then so be it.

I understand that Yoder is an exceptional athlete for his size, but do you actually think he has any type of future in football at fullback? No, it is either on the d-line or the o-line.

Are those answers suitable to you captain?

By the way, how do you feel the o-line played last season and this most recent game?

[TROCK9901]

Monte, I agree with all of your post except the part about how well JT played at corner. I saw number 10 running by him on several occasions, not just the first play of the game. I do believe that he will become a tremendous corner, just may get beat a few times in the process. I bet that he will bring at least 2 back the other way for touchdowns this season.

Benchboss, it was #5 who caught the first pass and he was the inside slot receiver on that play. As Monte said I believe it was Pettis who bit up on the playaction and the inside receiver ran by him in the middle of the field. In my opinion that is just lack of experience and he will only learn in time. I did see JT bite on a stop and go later on in the game but I would have to say that is the only time he was beat. It happens to all corners and it is not as if they were slow. middleteown always has one of the top track programs in the state in sprints and it showed at times. However I thought they adjusted to the speed well as the night went on. Wow was it hot, and one thing I noticed, Middletown had no two way players. Turner, Hildreth, and Massey all play O. I dont think as the weather gets cooler this will have an effect on them but in that heat it had to be tough to do all that running as receivers and DB's. One more thing, Corey Hildreth is exactly what you say he is Monte, he has the heart of a tiger. He was all over the place and is by far the best tackler on that D. My heart dropped when I heard his parents called down to the locker-room but I was ecstatic to see him back on the field in the 4th quarter. Must have just been very bad cramps. This week will be a bigger challenge in Solon and I'm looking forward to watching it. It sure beats Canada and DC and it will only make us better down the road.

[captain]

Bench,

It is not a matter of whether your answers are suitable, I was just asking for your opinion, since you seemed to be interested in the o-line.

First of all captain, after last years performance, I would have issued an offseason ultimatum to some of our linemen, lose ALOT of weight or you will not be playing this season.

Reply: I agree, our current tackles are some big guys - although I believe one of them lost around 50 lbs versus his weight last year - so he did work on his weight. (By the way, one of the tackles who is rotating through the lineup is only a sophmore, big kid and has a lot of potential just give him some time - (BTW - no I am not related to him). As far as our current guards, they are both quite small, - I think both, barely break 225 pounds (wet) - so being oversized is not an issue for them.

As the head coach, I would go out and hire the VERY best offensive line coach I could find. I just find it hard to believe that we haven't been able to develop a better offensive line than we have in the last 10-15 years.

Reply: Coach Leisure I believe, has some experience at the o-line position - I believe he played on one of the McKinley state championship teams. (Okay - I'll answer your probable reply, good players can not be counted on to be good coaches - in this case I think he is a good coach. (BTW not related to him either) It also seems you have had a problem for the last 10-15 years with our o-line, unfortunately I do not have the historical background to reply.

[B]Nobody can convince me that last season, Yoder could not have played offensive line even with his injury.

Reply: Not sure if you have ever played o-line, but Yoder had a broken hand last year - o-linemen use their hands alot - it is really difficult to play with only one.

I have already made this too long of a reply.

P.S. - No, Yoder will never be a fullback in college, but it is sure nice to have him as one in high school.

P.P.S - As far as the o-line rating for the last game, I would give them a C+, in my opinion not bad for the first outing - we did score over 40 points.

[Benchboss1]

captain, yes I played o-line, and I have seen with my own two eyes o-linemen playing with huge wraps/soft casts on their hands at every level from high school through the pros.

Yes it is GREAT to have Yoder at fullback, but if he cannot get through the line of scrimmage to deliver a lead block, then maybe he could be better used to open the hole from the offensive line. What do you think?

You did not seem to refer to my comment about using Matt Rose and/or S. Clark on the o-line.

You also did not reply as to why teams with inferior athletes, like Perry, are able to continually block our superior athletes, but yet out superior athletes have not been able to block their inferior ones.

I am aware that Coach Leisure was a part of a state championship McKinley team and that is all fine and dandy, but to this point in his Massillon career, the area that he is responsible for has not obviously been over impressive. Wouldn't you agree?

[tig62]

Wouldn't you agree?[/QUOTE]
I know that I agree! :2thumbsup:

[captain]

Bench,

You were an o-linemen, I am surprised at what you are saying. You should know how difficult it is to play with one hand. Also, it also surprises me that you believe that just anyone can play o-line - since you were one - I realize that the o-line is not considered a "skill position" (BTW that terminology has always bothered me). I could be wrong, and I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong - but I don't believe that Rose, Clark or Yoder have played (if ever) offensive line or at least for many moons. Hildreth and Ivan are tough kids, why don't we just put them at o-line - they have never played there, but hey, anyone can do it.

[B]You also did not reply as to why teams with inferior athletes, like Perry, are able to continually block our superior athletes, but yet out superior athletes have not been able to block their inferior ones.

I did not notice you asked me that question before, but in any event you are stating that Perry has inferior athletes - give me a break, Perry always has top notch athletes - "junk yard dogs" (and that is a compliment) in my opinion, and well coached. And as a side note, when did they manhandle Massillon as you are implying.


I am aware that Coach Leisure was a part of a state championship McKinley team and that is all fine and dandy, but to this point in his Massillon career, the area that he is responsible for has not obviously been over impressive. Wouldn't you agree?


He has only been in his current position (in-charge of the o-line) starting this year - can you give him a chance to do some work?

[Benchboss1]

I did not notice you asked me that question before, but in any event you are stating that Perry has inferior athletes - give me a break, Perry always has top notch athletes - "junk yard dogs" (and that is a compliment) in my opinion, and well coached. And as a side note, when did they manhandle Massillon as you are implying.



The fact that you think Perry "always", your word not mine, has "top notch athletes", again your words not mine, says alot to me about your football knowledge.
As for what I did say, I never said that they manhandled us, just that they have been able to block us, when I feel that we have had the better athletes, 2002 comes to mind. I do agree with your statement that Perry is always well coached on the offensive line and maybe you are onto something there.

I also never said that just anybody could play o-line, but if you want me to believe that Yoder, Rose or Clark cannot play there, that just isn't going to happen. Don't all three of them play fullback? Isn't the primary job of a fullback to block? How do you/we know that they can't do it if we never even try them at it? If Yoder is, and I believe he is, a great lead blocker out of the backfield, do you really believe that he could not play as a pulling guard or evan a tackle? I do not think that the results would be any less than what they have been do you? While it is great to have a fullback the caliber of athlete Yoder is, it is not a necessity. Having a great pulling guard/tackle is.

Torrence had over 150 yards and Herring almost 100, and most folks agree that our o-line play was less than stellar. Can you imagine what they would have had if we actually used our 5 best blockers on the o-line?

[captain]

Bench,

Saw your last post. Yes, I know very little about football - and by your posts it is apparent that you have forgotten more about football then I will ever know. Perhaps, over time as we go through our discussions you can impart your football wisdom upon me. The sad part about this whole discussion and topic is that we are both Tiger fans (at least I think you are) -your negative comments about our oline just set me off. Perhaps we should take this whole discussion off-line because in my opinion a public discussion serves no positive purpose.

[#56tigerdad]

Only in Massillon do you score 42 pts and run up 450 yards of offense against a very good team and people find something to complain about. The fullback scored didnt he with everyone in the box. Sometimes I think Massillon could win by 100 pts in a championship and people would still be complaining. Enjoy the win and let the "kids" not professional athletes work on their game and the coaches work on their game. Benchboss what years did you play that our line was great? BEAT SOLON!!!

[Kamd50]

Only in Massillon do you score 42 pts and run up 450 yards of offense against a very good team and people find something to complain about. The fullback scored didnt he with everyone in the box. Sometimes I think Massillon could win by 100 pts in a championship and people would still be complaining. Enjoy the win and let the "kids" not professional athletes work on their game and the coaches work on their game. Benchboss what years did you play that our line was great? BEAT SOLON!!!

AMEN! Why do "fans" seem to forget that they are watching highschool kids who are learning the game and developing their skills as they mature and grow?

Congrats to Coach Stacy and The Massillon Tigers on their first win! :gotigers:

[TIGER27]

Erlitz looked to be a good blocker and not just a big guy. I agree some of our "big" guys do seem a big lazy or just not as talented.

[Sidejudge]

Greetings from Middletown, again! I just want to say congratulations to Massilon for a good game. As our coach said, we had to be perfect and Friday night we didn't execute to perfection at all times. I thought it was a very clean and physical game both ways. It was also a wonderful venue. We had heard the visitors sometimes get treated a little "less-than-friendly" but nothing of the kind on Friday. All of you were great hosts and avid football fans coming up and talking with us about the Middies and in particluar my son who was #76, the right tackle. It was a great time (except for the score...!) I hope that when we see you in Middletown next year that we can be as good to you!

A point that one of you made on players going both ways. Our coach before coming to Middletown from Westlake was the assistant head coach at Miami University. He has employed the college approach to football from the off-season conditioning to X's & O's. His belief is that if a player plays both ways, he will miss practice time on one side of the ball or the other. And in game situations he will get more tired and tend to take plays off which is not a positive for the team. Certainly we have had folks hear mumble about playing some of our guys both ways but when you look at the style and tempo of Div 1 football in Ohio, the kids do need a break during the game. Coach Johnson says that if a player wants to play both ways he can play special teams and then either offense or defense.

Thanks, again for the hospitality and good game. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes and go on to run the table and who knows...maybe meet up in the playoffs with you later this year. Congrats and have a great year!

[massillon catholic]

Greetings from Middletown, again! I just want to say congratulations to Massilon for a good game. As our coach said, we had to be perfect and Friday night we didn't execute to perfection at all times. I thought it was a very clean and physical game both ways. It was also a wonderful venue. We had heard the visitors sometimes get treated a little "less-than-friendly" but nothing of the kind on Friday. All of you were great hosts and avid football fans coming up and talking with us about the Middies and in particluar my son who was #76, the right tackle. It was a great time (except for the score...!) I hope that when we see you in Middletown next year that we can be as good to you!

A point that one of you made on players going both ways. Our coach before coming to Middletown from Westlake was the assistant head coach at Miami University. He has employed the college approach to football from the off-season conditioning to X's & O's. His belief is that if a player plays both ways, he will miss practice time on one side of the ball or the other. And in game situations he will get more tired and tend to take plays off which is not a positive for the team. Certainly we have had folks hear mumble about playing some of our guys both ways but when you look at the style and tempo of Div 1 football in Ohio, the kids do need a break during the game. Coach Johnson says that if a player wants to play both ways he can play special teams and then either offense or defense.

Thanks, again for the hospitality and good game. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes and go on to run the table and who knows...maybe meet up in the playoffs with you later this year. Congrats and have a great year!


You guys have a good team with alot of speed and a good QB. Although, I don't know your schedule, I would expect the Middlies to finish no worse than 8-2. But, you'll need to shore up your special teams.

[TIGER27]

They have to play Colerain but most of their other games they will probably be favorites.

[Rushfan]

Hello,Sidejudge,and thank you also for a good,hard-hitting,well-played game.My wife and I are looking forward very much to visiting Middletown next season.I only wish that we could have lowered the temperature another 30 degrees.Best of luck to the Middies the rest of the year;you guys are a class act.BEAT XENIA!

[Sidejudge]

Thanks to all...last year we started the season with no kicker which was the difference in us not beating Hilliard Davidson to start the season. However, by the third game we had convinced the captain of the varsity soccer team to become our place kicker. It turned out that at our homecoming she was crowned queen! Megan actually finished as the one of the top kickers in the league. But she graduated last year.

Oor kicker is young but he will do fine. As you saw, the long snapping was not so great. We switched to one of our linebackers for the second half and our running back did double duty as the punter.

As far as the temperature, it was around 10-12 degrees cooler and a little less humid than the 102 we had the days leading up to the game. But I think anyone would have taken a nice balmy 74. Good luck to the Tigers this year!