IT'S BACK!! The one and only FED thread, (others will be deleted)...

[obiefan]

Sorry it took so long to bring this thread out of moth balls.
This shall remain the one and only endless Fed discussion on MassillonProud.
The other threads that were started or drifted to this topic have been merged into it.

Regards,
Seeker

Here are Obiefan's original comments:

This fed thread will expire the day of "Meet the Tigers" at Duncan Plaza. Until then, it is fair topic, but once I close the thread, it is OFF LIMITS until after the football season.

As always, the official massillonproud forum rules apply. However, there are at least a couple more rules.

In no way will I tolerate any "downright bashing" of anyone in the MCS, or it's administration.

I will not tolerate any "(insert name here) is a ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___" type comments!

Nor will I tolerate any mean spirited posts.

I would certainly hope we are adult enough to carry on a conversation without descending to the level of neandrathol comments I saw earlier in the couple other threads that were closed.

Furthermore, this thread will be the only thread in which any fed talk will exist. It will be promptly deleted from any other threads, and offending users will be warned for first offenses and then given infraction points for repeated offenses.

Thanks for your positive contribution to this tough topic.

[obiefan]

Personally, I'll give you my thoughts on the topic...

While I have been absolutely extremely appalled at joining the federal league in past years, I am willing to give it a trial balloon. What I would ask of each and every federal league team we'd play is that they would consider making temporary seating expansions for when we play them in football, or alternatively, play at a neutral site of reasonable size. Then make permanent expansions in the future.

What I see when we play away games such as mentor and cincinnati is nothing short of pathetic. Selling 1,500 presale and 350 of 400 at the gate. Since when has this been the case? For about the last five years.

I see us and McK literally winning the federal league year in and out. /a couple of the smaller teams may jump ship, and before you know it, you may see someone like Warren coming on board. That's a team or 2 shy of something like the old AAC.

I don't particularly see the AD job getting any easier with joining the fed. Frankly, it would benefit the middle school athletics more than anything. That helps middle school coaches who do a lot of lining up teams get freed up to do more coaching. It also gives middle school teams more opportunity to fill a schedule, which in turn gives our athletes in lower levels the possibility of getting better, due to playing more teams.

I don't see us "sinking to their level" in 15 years as someone had suggested earlier in another of the closed threads. I see us dominating the fed, sneaking into the playoffs, and then making a decent run. knocking off teams that we had previously had to play during the season. Beat em once... great... but then meet them in the playoffs and beat em twice? how many times have you seen that?

I'd like to see anyone dispute anything i've said so far... Be an adult about it, and we'll talk. act like a fool and see what happens...

Go Tigers!

[massillon catholic]

Personally, I'll give you my thoughts on the topic...


You make good points. However, I think the issue with most posters, is the manner in which the AD publicly begged to be in the fed and the "take out the trash" statement definintely didn't go over well, at all. There is a differance bewteen submitting a request to join and kissing the ground they walk on to get in.

[PainlessPaulus]

Personally, I'll give you my thoughts on the topic...





Jim,

How do you see the DREAM project affecting the FED? I would think the Federal L coaches would love to meet at Massillon.... and just having Massillon and Canton in their league would give their kids national exposurer...

doug

[obiefan]

MC- I totally agree with your thoughts on "taking out the trash" comments. I believe that may have been something said in jest that wasn't really meant to make the paper. No matter... It made the paper, and it didnt look very pretty.


Doc Paulus- Hadn't really thought about that. Not sure how much national exposure the other teams would get out of us and the dream project. I'll try to think about that a bit more, but I have to get back to work now.

[Benchboss1]

Jim, how do you feel about the comments Mr. Ridgley made to the media yesterday?

[CarlE]

Personally, I'll give you my thoughts on the topic...

I don't particularly see the AD job getting any easier with joining the fed. Frankly, it would benefit the middle school athletics more than anything.

I'd like to see anyone dispute anything i've said so far... Be an adult about it, and we'll talk. act like a fool and see what happens...

Go Tigers!

Some good thoughts. I couldn't disagree with you MORE on the topic of the AD's job not getting easier. If he has an automatic eight games already filled out every year, doesn't have to do any research or work on filling a schedule, and can fill in with two patty-cakes I would say his job gets SUBSTANTIALLY easier. And that is just football. Add the other sports to the mix and whatever he's getting paid is now too much. Add the comments he made, which shows complete lack of communication skills, and now he's EXTREMELY overpaid AND underqualified.

There's my dispute, and I hope that was adult-like. It was meant to be, although when I post on this topic there is a lot of passion underneath.

[austinsm11]

While I have been absolutely extremely appalled at joining the federal league in past years, I am willing to give it a trial balloon. What I would ask of each and every federal league team we'd play is that they would consider making temporary seating expansions for when we play them in football, or alternatively, play at a neutral site of reasonable size. Then make permanent expansions in the future.



I don't see much of a point in asking that. Why would they want to give up home field advantage just to play us (especially if we are talking on a long-term basis)? I also doubt they spend their money to accommodate more of our fans. I agree that it would be nice, but it won't happen. Besides, I don't think it is our place to make demands or suggestions to a league we are basically begging to get in.

I have to agree with Carle as far as scheduling as well. Massillon may be able to get 10 games every year, but joining the FED will give us 7 or 8 games right off the bat without picking up the phone. Seems easier to me.

Who is in charge of the scheduling at the middle school? Are there problems scheduling for just football at the middle school or all sports?

[orangeblood]

I am absolutely not willing to cut the Federal League any slack here. I have watched too many years of GOOD football that I can be proud of following. I will not rubber stamp any attempt to cheapen our schedule.

I realize that I have no say in the matter. I only buy tickets, booster club memberships, sideliner memberships, and am a past member of the Orangemen. I also bought one of those expensive parking places in front of the stadium. I am sorry my opinion is worthless in this matter.

[obie 66]

Mr Ridgley's quote was an ebarrassment to anyone who ever wore the uniform as well as anyone with an ounce of dignity in them!:obiefanfire:

[obiefan]

I pretty much summed it up in my post directly before your question. I didn't find it flattering, however I believe it might have been said in jest, and the paper ran with it.

Jim, how do you feel about the comments Mr. Ridgley made to the media yesterday?

[Kamd50]

Some good thoughts. I couldn't disagree with you MORE on the topic of the AD's job not getting easier. If he has an automatic eight games already filled out every year, doesn't have to do any research or work on filling a schedule, and can fill in with two patty-cakes I would say his job gets SUBSTANTIALLY easier. And that is just football. Add the other sports to the mix and whatever he's getting paid is now too much. Add the comments he made, which shows complete lack of communication skills, and now he's EXTREMELY overpaid AND underqualified.

There's my dispute, and I hope that was adult-like. It was meant to be, although when I post on this topic there is a lot of passion underneath.

Thanks for putting into adult-like words the sentiments that are shared by a ton of us alum, as well as other devoted fans, that are infuriated over Ridgely's catty remarks. And you are 100% correct about the whole making his job easier scenario.

Frankly, I don't know how you just say something like that in jest. That one thoughtless statement alone, has made us look desperate and needy, which we are NOT! And it is unfathomable to think that members of the fed would want to do anything in any way to accomodate Massillon's fans when they, the schools and their fans, DON'T even want us in their little league in the first place. Which is more than fine with me. I hope they neve changed their minds; especially now after that blunder.

[section3]

just looked at some of the fed league schedules, hoover plays a d.c. team, perry plays a canadian team and mckinley plays someone out of detroit. so much for the arguement that league membership fills your schedule with local teams bringing in people.

[obie 66]

Since when does Massillon GROVEL on bended knee? We are a proud tradition!
Who in the Fed, other than Mckinley, has ANY tradition? They should be begging us to join!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bs:

[Kamd50]

Yep, big challenge right there:doh2:

[Fats]

ObieFan You state that you see us or Mckinley literally winning the Fed league year in and year out. You also post that you see us dominating the FEd, sneaking into the playoffs. IMO I just do not think it helps our TIGER Program to be in a league that we will Dominate and Win on a year to year basis.
For the reasons you stated in your post, I think it only proves the point of many anti-Fed posters, Attendance will go down over the years. Why? Because we (as you have stated) will Dominate and win most years.
ObieFan can you honestly say that attendance at a Jackson / Massillon game that we have beaten (as you predict) 6 times in a row will have a large crowd?
Some questions I have that I think needs to be answered before we bend over backwards to join the FED.
1. How can less(football) home games help our sports programs financially? We all know the the football program brings in the dollars for the minor sports.
2. For the ? of attendance. Even when we play the Sisters of Mercy at home, I think the attendance is close to 8000 to 9000. This is ticket money that goes into our coffers, not including Concessions, 50/50. So if we play a home and away say with N. Canton. Lets play with some numbers. The First game is at PBTS and we have our 4000+ tickets holders and another 2000 bought at our ticket office. In this example we sold 6000 tickets, this is our revenue plus concessions and 50/50. Now the next year we play at N. Canton we get 3000 tickets. We lose concession and ticket revenue and our Season Ticket holders are left lining up at 3am to get tickets. So if we play the Sisters a home and home series we have 16000 to 18000 tickets sold for our program, plus concession and 50/50.
3. How does playing the FED schedule help to keep our national stature. Believe it or not, but we WILL Stop playing the likes of Warren Harding, St. Iggy and St. Eds. No longer our we going to play the marquee games that the whole state of Ohio is watching. No longer do we play an out of state opponent. Their goes our national and state reputation.
4. Does it motivate our players to beat teams year after year. As you stated ObieFan, we dominate. Do our players now feel satisfaction that they won the FED Trophy and are FEd first teamers. I do think this lowers our standards.

NOW, in conclusion. WE need answers to questions about Why the FED is better. The administration, coaches have never really answered or been questioned on how the FED league helps us. We should not just take the word of our FED friendly admin and coaching staff.
Personally, I have no problem scheduling the FED. Maybe the FED should change the way the league schedule is set up. Leave some weeks in the middle for out of league games. I have no problem if Basketball and the minor sports join the FED. I am AGAINST our TIGER football Program joining. I just do not see the financial rewards and the good it would do for our Tiger Program.
GO TIGERS.
ONE MORE thing. I really believe that this topic needs to be discuss all year long. Because this administration is working everyday to get us in the FED, even if we have to take the TRASH out.
FATS

[longtimefirsttime]

I pretty much summed it up in my post directly before your question. I didn't find it flattering, however I believe it might have been said in jest, and the paper ran with it.

If that's the case, then he learned a hard lesson. Do not make statements like that, even in jest, when the media is anywhere around. Many members wait for a comment like that so they can create a controversy.

[obiefan]

Valid argument you have there. I appreciate your comments!

The only one I can truly address is the last comment you made. Since this thread is likely to be controversial, it is not allowed during season, while players are on the field. That is why I said no talk of it publicly on the site from Aug 22 thru Dec 1.

Now don't get me wrong. Personally, I have not decided which way I am leaning, towards or away from the fed. Frankly, that's only my opinion which amounts to zilch.

All I have done is to lay the groundwork for online discussion at this site.


ONE MORE thing. I really believe that this topic needs to be discuss all year long. Because this administration is working everyday to get us in the FED, even if we have to take the TRASH out.
FATS

[TigerVic]

Thank you for allowing us a shot at discussing this, Obiefan.

I pretty much echo Fats' statements above, so there isn't much more for me to say. I was the guy who said we'd basically be just another team in 10-15 years if we joined the Fed. I said that for cultural reasons alone- once we assimilate into that culture and we play one Fed team after another- year after year- our fans will become used to that level of play and, worse, so will our players.

Will we see the intensity we see today from the 2020 Tigers? I think not- because they'll be thinking of facing Akron East and its ilk in the first 3 games followed by familiar level and style of play following.

Playoffs? Those will be a definite maybe (and a BONUS, not an expectation) 10 weeks in the future.

Playing for a title? That would just be a pipedream, not an expectation, coming out of the Federal League.

GO TIGERS!! (Just don't go Fed).

[MTown]

My thoughts in a nutshell...

The Fed is going to happen sooner or later. It is inevitable. With travel costs involved at the middle school, freshman, and JV levels it has to be done. I understand all the reasons why the administration wants to join. I also do not have a problem with our admin trying to "clean up" our image to surrounding schools. Massillon should set the example of sportsmanship.

I could not disagree more with the attitude of trying to get in at all costs. WE are giving THEM a HUGE boost to the credibility of their league if we join...and it should not be a their way or the highway proposition. There are things we should try to negotiate with them before entry. I would hope our admin would try to accomplish things that would benefit US. The biggest thing I would push for is flexible scheduling. Joining the Fed as it is presently constructed would force us to play non-conference games in weeks 1-3 or 4. That will not allow us to continue to play Warren and Ignatius. It is those types of matchups that make Massillon football what it is. If those types of games are lost it will certainly change our program for the worst. Those games cannot be replaced by the likes of North Canton Hoover or Jackson.

If this is way we are going to go from here on out, I just hope that the decision makers always put our interests first. That is the job they get paid to do.

[TigerVic]

I guess my only other point is (that Fats didn't mentioned, but has before) is that why would we want to be in a league, let alone grovel to get in, that hasn't exactly been lining up to play us in the regular season? Why haven't we played Jackson since 1979? Hoover ever? GlenOak and Perry over the last 5 years or more?

Why marry a girl who never wanted to go on a date with us?

[TigerVic]

What do our CURRENT PLAYERS think??

[proud to be]

I find it interesting that we keep talking about the benefit of travel by being in the FED. I agree that for the most part local games will be a big draw initially, and eventually the fascination will wear out due to a lack of consistent competition.

Say what you want about that, but if we are neck and neck in future years with the FED teams, it will NOT be because they have all gotten better. We have proven our dominance over the years whenever we have come up against the FED teams, with very few exceptions. THAT WILL EVENTUALLY GET OLD AND BORING!
If we are fighting it out with them in 5 years, that would be a shame, and if we are not.... it will be boring. How can we benefit from that?

Back to the travel issue. Was it a benefit for Boardman and Fitch to get into the FED??? Did they need it for scheduling reasons as well? From a geographical standpoint, thet travel schedule must be a nightmare!!!! Especially in the Middle Schools.

[The Butler]

http://www.indeonline.com/index.php?ID=18788&r=2&Category=7

Federal League inclusion would benefit the student-athletes of the Massillon City Schools. Not just the football team or even the varsity squads of all sports ... but every boy and girl who suits up from the seventh grade on.

Joining the Federal League would mean shorter bus rides to most away games and an earlier return home afterward – especially important for our younger student-athletes who play mid-week contests during the evening. It would reduce fuel costs, lessen wear and tear on school buses, and make road trips safer.

********************
Simple question and not a jab. Would this editorial have been published if the Inde was still under local ownership?

[Al.]

http://www.indeonline.com/index.php?ID=18788&r=2&Category=7
It would reduce fuel costs, lessen wear and tear on school buses, and make road trips safer.

Don't the majority of traffic accidents occur close to your home? :scratchchin: lol

[TigerLily]

I just opened up the newspaper at lunch and looked at the cartoon on Page A-4. Here is a picture of a team called the “Federal League” on the field and poor Massillon is standing on the sidelines waiting with a frown on our face to get into the game. The coach is telling the player “Be patient, kid. You’ll get your chance”.

You know…we used to be the standard by which others aspired to. Now it seems in this we are the ones waiting and begging to “tag along”.

Also, I noticed that the Editor said in his piece on the same page about how we would still be able to play St. Ignatius, Warren, etc. Well, maybe they won’t have an open date for the very limited weeks we would have available, thus back to Washington D.C via Canada.

[longtimefirsttime]

http://www.indeonline.com/index.php?ID=18788&r=2&Category=7
Simple question and not a jab. Would this editorial have been published if the Inde was still under local ownership?

In the old days? No way. Now. Who knows. With newspaper readership plummeting it seems that some are trying to become the print versions of "Extra" or "Entertainment Tonight."

From the Editorial section:
"All the while, the Tiger football team would still have two or three weeks left over after league games are scheduled to play the St. Ignatiuses, Warren Hardings and other powers of the prep football world."

Does the Inde honestly think the Tigers will continue to play the Ignatiuses, Warren Hardings and other prep powers if they join the Fed as it's currently made up? Other than Boardman playing Ignatius and McKinley playing Massillon, series that began BEFORE they joined the Fed, name the last Fed team that played a state or national power. I won't hold my breath.

[TigerVic]

[QUOTE=The Butler
Federal League inclusion would benefit the student-athletes of the Massillon City Schools. [/QUOTE]


Fine- Join the league in just the other sports to improve them, but don't diminish the football program as part of the package.

Joining the Fed will in no way, shape, or form improve our football program or football student-athletes.

[massillon catholic]

In the old days? No way. Now. Who knows. With newspaper readership plummeting it seems that some are trying to become the print versions of "Extra" or "Entertainment Tonight."

From the Editorial section:
"All the while, the Tiger football team would still have two or three weeks left over after league games are scheduled to play the St. Ignatiuses, Warren Hardings and other powers of the prep football world."

Does the Inde honestly think the Tigers will continue to play the Ignatiuses, Warren Hardings and other prep powers if they join the Fed as it's currently made up? Other than Boardman playing Ignatius and McKinley playing Massillon, series that began BEFORE they joined the Fed, name the last Fed team that played a state or national power. I won't hold my breath.

What doesn't make sense to me, is the Editorial and others claim that we wouldn't be playing Canada, DC, Y'Town inner city if we join the Fed. However, McK doesn't play Iggy anymore and does play Canada for the last few years. Hoover is opening up with Wash DC team. They just don't make sense and their "defense" for joing the fed doesn't add up. Massillon isn't playing one Canada team or DC team this year and we ain't in the FED!!!And, the Fed schools are playing these teams:wall:

[monte81]

I just opened up the newspaper at lunch and looked at the cartoon on Page A-4. Here is a picture of a team called the “Federal League” on the field and poor Massillon is standing on the sidelines waiting with a frown on our face to get into the game. The coach is telling the player “Be patient, kid. You’ll get your chance”.

You know…we used to be the standard by which others aspired to. Now it seems in this we are the ones waiting and begging to “tag along”.

Also, I noticed that the Editor said in his piece on the same page about how we would still be able to play St. Ignatius, Warren, etc. Well, maybe they won’t have an open date for the very limited weeks we would have available, thus back to Washington D.C via Canada.

Comics about our program/team begging!! See what I mean that the statements were definitely not thought out or rehearsed. Everytime I or anyone is interviewed at my job by a newspaper or veteran magazine we PREPARE so we do not say stupid things that make our organization look bad even if it was a joke or by accident. I AM MASSILLON is HE?

[massillon catholic]

Comics about our program/team begging!! See what I mean that the statements were definitely not thought out or rehearsed. Everytime I or anyone is interviewed at my job by a newspaper or veteran magazine we PREPARE so we do not say stupid things that make our organization look bad even if it was a joke or by accident. I AM MASSILLON is HE?


That is why criminal defendants have the "right to remain silent"!! SO, they don't say anything STUPID!!

[Fats]

http://www.indeonline.com/index.php?ID=18788&r=2&Category=7

Federal League inclusion would benefit the student-athletes of the Massillon City Schools. Not just the football team or even the varsity squads of all sports ... but every boy and girl who suits up from the seventh grade on.

Joining the Federal League would mean shorter bus rides to most away games and an earlier return home afterward – especially important for our younger student-athletes who play mid-week contests during the evening. It would reduce fuel costs, lessen wear and tear on school buses, and make road trips safer.

********************
Simple question and not a jab. Would this editorial have been published if the Inde was still under local ownership?

Why do we need to join the Fed to schedule middle school events? I just think that this admin. and coaching staff want in the FED so bad that they make statements but I see no facts backing them up.
In the late 60s and early 70s, I do not remember long trips for jr. high games. Of course we had Bowers, smith, and others and we had L. A. , Jones, Longfellow. I just think travel is a red herring in this debate.

[massillon catholic]

Why do we need to join the Fed to schedule middle school events? I just think that this admin. and coaching staff want in the FED so bad that they make statements but I see no facts backing them up.
In the late 60s and early 70s, I do not remember long trips for jr. high games. Of course we had Bowers, smith, and others and we had L. A. , Jones, Longfellow. I just think travel is a red herring in this debate.

Its ALL, B.S.:bs:

[Benchboss1]

I pretty much summed it up in my post directly before your question. I didn't find it flattering, however I believe it might have been said in jest, and the paper ran with it.



Let's assume that it was made in jest for a second, which by the way, I do NOT believe, why even say it at all? I would think that he would be better able to present his feelings than that! If that is the best he can do, then he had better never be allowed to speak to the media again!!

[massillon catholic]

[QUOTE=Benchboss1;63865]Let's assume that it was made in jest for a second, which by the way, I do NOT believe, why even say it at all? I would think that he would be better able to present his feelings than that! If that is the best he can do, then he had better never be allowed to speak to the media again!![/QUOTE

It WASN"T in jest, PERIOD! His job is to get us in the fed and if that means kissing the ground they walk on, he'll do it. The problem is, he said "we'll take out the trash" and that statement doesn't represent me or Massillon Tiger fans. Maybe it represents him, but then he should have said "I" instead of "WE". Bottom-line is, he needs to make an apology ASAP, which, I doubt he will. Unfortunately for him, this statement and his many threats to sue the school district will be his legacy at Massillon.

[austinsm11]

Bottom-line is, he needs to make an apology ASAP, which, I doubt he will.

I really thought he would give some kind of explanation by now about the comment.

[massillon catholic]

I really thought he would give some kind of explanation by now about the comment.

You and everybody else. He won't do it because it will give the impression that we don't need the fed and he can't do that.

[massillon catholic]

Here are some oppenents of Fed teams this year.

Hoover: DC Dunbar

McK: Detroit team, Tulsa, OK team

Perry: Canada Team

Boardman: Toledo Start.

My point is, by joining the Fed does NOT eliminate the need to schedule inner city schools, out of state schools or even out of country schools. This is a "meritless" arguement.

[TigerDL71]

I really thought he would give some kind of explanation by now about the comment.

Explanation for what? I still do not see what the huge deal about the comment is. It was just a comment describing how bad he wants to get into the Federal league. If that is him kissing the federal leagues butt then we have a lot bigger problems on our hands.

I know people will bite my head off for this but W-we need to all take off our orange and black football glasses. What makes us think that we are any better then anyone else? How are we that much better then anyone else that we need to put down the federal league and the likes of Perry? Perry and Jackson and McK put on their pads just like our kids. I will say that my senior year Perry was by far one of the best teams we played that year, second to only Warren. My junior year Hoover was pretty good as well.


Stop looking at joining the fed just as a football move, look at it as a whole. It would benefit every program that we have and force our town to just NOT LOOK AT FOOTBALL but focus on other programs as well. Lets face it the only sports that we could compete for in a Federal League title is football and boys bball. Our other sports as a whole do not compare to federal league schools. The travel would be reduced and you could play week day games. Just think how many parents would be able to watch their kids during the week because of the proximity of the games being played.

As a former player I do not feel offended at all by Ridgely's comments but thats just my opinion. It shouldn't matter to the players either who they play. They should line up ready to kick the butt of the person over them regardless if its Fairless or Iggy. The kids should just go out to play ball. I bet if you ask a kid right now what gets them more fired up playing a rival in Perry or playing cincinatti hills and I bet you everyone would said playing Perry. The program will not suffer if the COACHES expect a high standard of the kids. Its up to the coaches to carry on the traditions from before. That should not suffer regardless of the teams you are playing. Remember, never play down to another teams level.

[austinsm11]

Explanation for what? I still do not see what the huge deal about the comment is. It was just a comment describing how bad he wants to get into the Federal league. If that is him kissing the federal leagues butt then we have a lot bigger problems on our hands.

I know people will bite my head off for this but W-we need to all take off our orange and black football glasses. What makes us think that we are any better then anyone else? How are we that much better then anyone else that we need to put down the federal league and the likes of Perry? Perry and Jackson and McK put on their pads just like our kids. I will say that my senior year Perry was by far one of the best teams we played that year, second to only Warren. My junior year Hoover was pretty good as well.


Stop looking at joining the fed just as a football move, look at it as a whole. It would benefit every program that we have and force our town to just NOT LOOK AT FOOTBALL but focus on other programs as well. Lets face it the only sports that we could compete for in a Federal League title is football and boys bball. Our other sports as a whole do not compare to federal league schools. The travel would be reduced and you could play week day games. Just think how many parents would be able to watch their kids during the week because of the proximity of the games being played.

As a former player I do not feel offended at all by Ridgely's comments but thats just my opinion. It shouldn't matter to the players either who they play. They should line up ready to kick the butt of the person over them regardless if its Fairless or Iggy. The kids should just go out to play ball. I bet if you ask a kid right now what gets them more fired up playing a rival in Perry or playing cincinatti hills and I bet you everyone would said playing Perry. The program will not suffer if the COACHES expect a high standard of the kids. Its up to the coaches to carry on the traditions from before. That should not suffer regardless of the teams you are playing. Remember, never play down to another teams level.

I think you are COMPLETELY missing the point. This isn't about being in the FED or not being in the FED.

[TigerDL71]

I think you are COMPLETELY missing the point. This isn't about being in the FED or not being in the FED.

Its obvious what my stance is then if you read what I posted.

[TigerVic]

It shouldn't matter to the players either who they play. They should line up ready to kick the butt of the person over them regardless if its Fairless or Iggy. The kids should just go out to play ball. I bet if you ask a kid right now what gets them more fired up playing a rival in Perry or playing cincinatti hills and I bet you everyone would said playing Perry. The program will not suffer if the COACHES expect a high standard of the kids. Its up to the coaches to carry on the traditions from before. That should not suffer regardless of the teams you are playing. Remember, never play down to another teams level.


So why not schedule a PAC-7 schedule and be happy with that? Just leave it to the coaches from there?

Of course players will say Perry over Western Hills. But would they say the toughest team we should play each year is a Fed team?

[austinsm11]

Explanation for what? I still do not see what the huge deal about the comment is. It was just a comment describing how bad he wants to get into the Federal league. If that is him kissing the federal leagues butt then we have a lot bigger problems on our hands.


I did read your post. There are people on here that are for/against the FED. What most everyone seems to agree with, regardless of his or her stance on joining the FED, is that Ridgley is portraying this as a desperate program.

You don't see what the huge deal is? You don't think he is kissing the FED's butts? Will you be helping Mr. Ridgley "take out the trash" after the games just to play in the FED?

[Kamd50]

So why not schedule a PAC-7 schedule and be happy with that? Just leave it to the coaches from there?

Of course players will say Perry over Western Hills. But would they say the toughest team we should play each year is a Fed team?

Kids grow up in Massillon dreaming of playing in the big games that they have heard about and cheered at all of their lives. They want their chance at the Iggy's and Warrens and so forth. They don't dream of growing up and playing the feaking polar bears:thumbsdown:

[obie 66]

Whether to join the Federal League or not is a legitimate debate. However, for an administrator to embarras the program and himself is deplorable, and disgusting, let alone humiliating!:thumbsdown:

[austinsm11]

Whether to join the Federal League or not is a legitimate debate. However, for an administrator to embarras the program and himself is deplorable, and disgusting, let alone humiliating!:thumbsdown:

And this is what the point is about!

[tiger74]

I have too agree with that statement from above. to look at it another way I will give an example: say you go up to a supermodel and promise to do this and that to get a date. would she not think you are begging? For other sports we already are playing and losing to some fed teams. I think what we should be able to do is set up a feeder system and get some higher interest in other programs. the problem is some {not all} people are football only and don't care about other sports. I would think getting other programs going would help bring in more kids for things other then football. I remember mckinleys ad saying something about not having perry or north canton on the road and them going to massillon also, as this would hurt there revenue. so we would have to try and make a schedule that wouldn't hurt are revenue by having another road game vs. a home game. I know we are not mckinley but didn't they say the same things to there fans about still playing iggy and warren. I would propose this to all the fed schools schedule us home and away for a few years and see how it works out. I don't get why we beg to get in the fed when they WILL NOT play us in football. we have NEVER begged to get are image why start now.

[TigerDL71]

So why not schedule a PAC-7 schedule and be happy with that? Just leave it to the coaches from there?

Of course players will say Perry over Western Hills. But would they say the toughest team we should play each year is a Fed team?

I am simply stating that the only way our play and team will ever suffer will only be because of the coaches and the players letting it suffer. It shouldn't matter who we play. If we had a Fed schedule why wouldn't we be able to schedule an Iggy and a Warren in there? Right there is 4 big games on the schedule right there (Iggy, Warren, McK, Perry). About the same number of what I would call big games this year. Lets look at it this way as well......would you rather play a team like the Cincy team who won't bring that many people or play a Lake team who will actually bring people to the game and might actually be better?

[TigerVic]

I am simply stating that the only way our play and team will ever suffer will only be because of the coaches and the players letting it suffer. It shouldn't matter who we play. If we had a Fed schedule why wouldn't we be able to schedule an Iggy and a Warren in there? Right there is 4 big games on the schedule right there (Iggy, Warren, McK, Perry). About the same number of what I would call big games this year. Lets look at it this way as well......would you rather play a team like the Cincy team who won't bring that many people or play a Lake team who will actually bring people to the game and might actually be better?

No matter what we schedule, we need to have a cupcake or two (like Cincy Western Hills) for a breather. If we schedule with the Fed, we'll have cupcakes to lead off the season with the Fed as our "tough marquee" games.

We have the real marquee games now and have had them for the past 75 plus years and will continue to have them if we don't join the Fed. Can you (or more to the point, the AD) GUARANTEE to Tiger fans that we'll have those marquee games year in and year out if we join the Fed (let alone the argument that they'd be forced to be in the first 3 games)??

I'd hate to see the day when we point to Perry as the big "pre-McK" game.

[Obie Wan]

No matter what we schedule, we need to have a cupcake or two (like Cincy Western Hills) for a breather. If we schedule with the Fed, we'll have cupcakes to lead off the season with the Fed as our "tough marquee" games.
Maybe, maybe not. Let's assume a 7-team Fed (all the Stark County teams). That's 6 league games, starting in week 4. Because of the odd number of members, each team will have an off week during league play. Suppose our off week is week 8. We could still play Iggy in week 3 and Warren in week 8.

Consider this hypothetical schedule:
Middletown
Buchtel
Iggy
Lake
Hoover
GlenOak
Perry
Warren
Jackson
McKinley

Is that really that bad?

[TigerVic]

Maybe, maybe not. Let's assume a 7-team Fed (all the Stark County teams). That's 6 league games, starting in week 4. Because of the odd number of members, each team will have an off week during league play. Suppose our off week is week 8. We could still play Iggy in week 3 and Warren in week 8.

Consider this hypothetical schedule:
Middletown
Buchtel
Iggy
Lake
Hoover
GlenOak
Perry
Warren
Jackson
McKinley

Is that really that bad?

It is if we delete Iggy, Warren, and Buchtel. I don't see these teams or teams like them consistently on current Fed schedules. I do see them consistently on current and past Tiger schedules. My question is that as we assimilate into the Fed, will the AD eventually not allow our players to play non-Stark County marquee games?

I sense a game of smoke and mirrors here being played by the AD and the puppet Inde.

[massillon catholic]

Maybe, maybe not. Let's assume a 7-team Fed (all the Stark County teams). That's 6 league games, starting in week 4. Because of the odd number of members, each team will have an off week during league play. Suppose our off week is week 8. We could still play Iggy in week 3 and Warren in week 8.

Consider this hypothetical schedule:
Middletown
Buchtel
Iggy
Lake
Hoover
GlenOak
Perry
Warren
Jackson
McKinley

Is that really that bad?

Don't we play Iggy and Buchtel the 5th and 6th game? That would be right in the middle of the fed schedule.

[thaporch]

No matter what we schedule, we need to have a cupcake or two (like Cincy Western Hills) for a breather.

Take a look at St. X's schedule and tell me if you see any cupcakes. Winton Woods is about the only school considered to be a cupcake.

I don't wanna get into the parochial argument, but their schedule is tough... tougher than Massillon's 06 schedule. Yet they are by far the favorite to win region 4.

The federal league and Massillon have very similar players and athletes thanks to the exodus to the suburbs. Now it's the coaching and philosphy sets Massillon apart (and the mystique is going to be there forever as well). I think the federal league is about 2-3 coaches away from being a very potent premier football conference.

With McD at Jackson, Miller at Perry, Durbin at Lake and Cross at McK, Hoover and GlenOak will only get better with better coaching. Imagine if GlenOak can reign in all the talent in those hallways.

All fed schools have down years and those schools turn out to be the cupcakes that particular season.

I love playing Massillon. Even if you never join I wish we could play you guys every year.

[Obie Wan]

Is that really that bad?

It is if we delete Iggy, Warren, and Buchtel.

If we delete Iggy, Warren, and Buchtel, then it isn't the schedule that I posted, is it? :wall:

I don't see these teams or teams like them consistently on current Fed schedules. I do see them consistently on current and past Tiger schedules.
Who cares who the other schools play? If you're saying that we're incapable of filling a schedule, then it seems to me that you're pretty much in agreement with Ridgley. However, if we have the chance to play Iggy and Warren, and we choose not to, then that is entirely our own fault. You cannot blame that on the Fed.

My question is that as we assimilate into the Fed, will the AD eventually not allow our players to play non-Stark County marquee games?
That is unknowable - and as such, irrelevant. The AD could make that decision next year even if we're not in the Fed. The AD might just as easily decide to open the season with Iggy, Moeller, and St. Ed if we are in the Fed.

Don't we play Iggy and Buchtel the 5th and 6th game? That would be right in the middle of the fed schedule.
No - it's the 6th and 7th games this year. Not that it matters, anyway -- is it written in stone that we have to play any particular team in any particular week (save McKinley)?

[austinsm11]

Maybe, maybe not. Let's assume a 7-team Fed (all the Stark County teams). That's 6 league games, starting in week 4. Because of the odd number of members, each team will have an off week during league play. Suppose our off week is week 8. We could still play Iggy in week 3 and Warren in week 8.

Consider this hypothetical schedule:
Middletown
Buchtel
Iggy
Lake
Hoover
GlenOak
Perry
Warren
Jackson
McKinley

Is that really that bad?

I've mentioned before that this seems like a schedule for us. Fitch and Boardman would have to leave and I honestly have no idea what their intentions are. People keep saying they are leaving, while others are saying they won't.

How would the FED teams like finding an opponent since one team will have an open date once league play starts? They may view it as too much work. There should be Iggy, Eds, Warren, and an Akron team to play...but would they want to play them? Isn't there a team with an open date in week 10 when we play McKinley? I was thinking Lake, but I'm not sure.

[tiger#22]

Whether to join the Federal League or not is a legitimate debate. However, for an administrator to embarras the program and himself is deplorable, and disgusting, let alone humiliating!:thumbsdown:

I think we could end this topic on the above post and wait for the apology or whatever you want to call it that Ridgely owes the City of Massillon.

[Benchboss1]

Stop looking at joining the fed just as a football move, look at it as a whole. It would benefit every program that we have and force our town to just NOT LOOK AT FOOTBALL but focus on other programs as well.


PLease explain how being in the Federal League will automatically improve our other sports.

Why would it "force us to focus on other programs"? Don't we already play MOST of the Federal League schools in these other sports? Since we do, shouldn't our other sports be better by now?

[tiger#22]

Maybe, maybe not. Let's assume a 7-team Fed (all the Stark County teams). That's 6 league games, starting in week 4. Because of the odd number of members, each team will have an off week during league play. Suppose our off week is week 8. We could still play Iggy in week 3 and Warren in week 8.

Consider this hypothetical schedule:
Middletown
Buchtel
Iggy
Lake
Hoover
GlenOak
Perry
Warren
Jackson
McKinley

Is that really that bad?

The key word in that post is ASSUME, I have heard nothing out of the Fitch and Boardman camps other then they have no intentions of leaving the Fed and if Massillon takes the invite to join a 9 team league we all might as well just stay home on Friday nights. If you take out Iggy and Warren and put in Boardman and Fitch the AD wont have a problem finding teams to play in the Middle Schools he will have a problem finding the $$$ to pay for anything including his salary.

[TigerDL71]

PLease explain how being in the Federal League will automatically improve our other sports.

Why would it "force us to focus on other programs"? Don't we already play MOST of the Federal League schools in these other sports? Since we do, shouldn't our other sports be better by now?



In other sports you know more then likely your not going to be competeing for a state championship year in and year out. It would force our other sports to get up to par with the other schools in the league. If you were the coach of say the girls soccer team would you like to be the door mat of the league year in and year out? Right now if the team looses to a federal league school then its no big deal because it has no impact on us because we are in NO league at all. It would give some teams something to shoot for every year.

[Benchboss1]

Consider this hypothetical schedule:
Middletown
Buchtel
Iggy
Lake
Hoover
GlenOak
Perry
Warren
Jackson
McKinley

Is that really that bad?


Actually Obie Wan, that isn't a terrible schedule.

However, do you actually believe that we would continue to schedule teams such as Warren, Ignatius and Buchtel when we get into the World beating Federal League, or do you believe that we will simply fall in and follow the "company line" of the Federal League schools and just say that the league schedule is sooooo tough week in and week out that we can't afford to schedule such strong out of conference opponents?

Anybody taking bets on this?

[austinsm11]

In other sports you know more then likely your not going to be competeing for a state championship year in and year out. It would force our other sports to get up to par with the other schools in the league. If you were the coach of say the girls soccer team would you like to be the door mat of the league year in and year out? Right now if the team looses to a federal league school then its no big deal because it has no impact on us because we are in NO league at all. It would give some teams something to shoot for every year.

Wrong. I think mtown or someone mentioned this before. We just want to beat those teams when we step out onto the field/court/whatever. I guess the other sports teams have little motivation to beat the FED teams but if there was a trophy involved ("something to shoot for") they would try harder. Please.

[Benchboss1]

In other sports you know more then likely your not going to be competeing for a state championship year in and year out. It would force our other sports to get up to par with the other schools in the league. If you were the coach of say the girls soccer team would you like to be the door mat of the league year in and year out? Right now if the team looses to a federal league school then its no big deal because it has no impact on us because we are in NO league at all. It would give some teams something to shoot for every year.


The only problem with your line of thinking DL is that only coaching and coaching effort is going to better our other programs. We would need to hire the BEST AVAILABLE coach for each and every other sport, one that is going to spend extra hours to help the kids, spend time developing a feeder system and such, not always take the easy way out.

Now, since we are not a door mat now, isn't that actually better for our other sports?

[austinsm11]

Actually Obie Wan, that isn't a terrible schedule.

However, do you actually believe that we would continue to schedule teams such as Warren, Ignatius and Buchtel when we get into the World beating Federal League, or do you believe that we will simply fall in and follow the "company line" of the Federal League schools and just say that the league schedule is sooooo tough week in and week out that we can't afford to schedule such strong out of conference opponents?

Anybody taking bets on this?

I would say with Wan's schedule we would schedule those teams. If there is an even number of teams and weeks 4-10 are against league opponents, then I could see week three maybe playing Iggy or Warren but weeks 1-2 would be against cupcakes.

[austinsm11]

The only problem with your line of thinking DL is that only coaching and coaching effort is going to better our other programs. We would need to hire the BEST AVAILABLE coach for each and every other sport, one that is going to spend extra hours to help the kids, spend time developing a feeder system and such, not always take the easy way out.

Now, since we are not a door mat now, isn't that actually better for our other sports?

This is the biggest thing the other sports need, imo.

[TigerDL71]

Wrong. I think mtown or someone mentioned this before. We just want to beat those teams when we step out onto the field/court/whatever. I guess the other sports teams have little motivation to beat the FED teams but if there was a trophy involved ("something to shoot for") they would try harder. Please.

Besides football and basketball name a sport where there is extra motiviation to beat a federal league school over any other school on the schedule?


The only problem with your line of thinking DL is that only coaching and coaching effort is going to better our other programs. We would need to hire the BEST AVAILABLE coach for each and every other sport, one that is going to spend extra hours to help the kids, spend time developing a feeder system and such, not always take the easy way out.

Now, since we are not a door mat now, isn't that actually better for our other sports?

I agree with you about hiring the best available coaches. It has to start with the coaches and work its way all the way down to the youth. I believe that joining the Federal league will force our coaches to take this approach in order to be successful in the league itself.

[TigerVic]

[QUOTE=Obie Wan;63913]If we delete Iggy, Warren, and Buchtel, then it isn't the schedule that I posted, is it? QUOTE]


No, it isn't. However, you're missing my point: How REALISTIC is it that we'll consistently be playing non-Stark County marquee games such as in your hypothetical schedule? No, we don't know the future, but we can take heed from looking at other schools in the league, including McKinley, and their consistent avoidance of such teams. Yes- we're Massillon, but SOMETHING must be afoot in the Fed to engender such avoidance.

One thing I'm fairly confident in (and no, I can't prove it) is that we're more likely to continue our 75 plus year pattern of playing such games by not being in the Fed.

[austinsm11]

Besides football and basketball name a sport where there is extra motiviation to beat a federal league school over any other school on the schedule?


Name one of these sports where a trophy will make the kids try harder.

You once again missed the point. The kids are trying their hardest to beat the FED teams and any other teams on their schedule. A possible trophy at the end of the season is NOT going to make a difference.

[TigerDL71]

Name one sport where a trophy will make the kids try harder.

You once again missed the point. The kids are trying their hardest to beat the FED teams and any other teams on their schedule. A possible trophy at the end of the season is NOT going to make a difference.

So are you saying that winning a league title has no bearing at all on the athletes? That they would rather win some games not get anything and go one and done in the tourney? A league title gives the players something to shoot for every year. It is a goal that teams in the league should have. If it doesn't make a difference why does baseball teams in the Fed pitch their ACE against other Fed schools and pitch their 2 or 3 against non league schools? Why does swim teams put together their best lineup against other fed schools and swim off events for non - fed? League titles matter to coaches just as well as the players. Yes they will try hard no matter who they play but a league will give teams a goal to shoot for and a reason to motivate the team. If you don't have a team goal then you have nothing to shoot for and will lack motivation.

[austinsm11]

So are you saying that winning a league title has no bearing at all on the athletes? That they would rather win some games not get anything and go one and done in the tourney? A league title gives the players something to shoot for every year. It is a goal that teams in the league should have. If it doesn't make a difference why does baseball teams in the Fed pitch their ACE against other Fed schools and pitch their 2 or 3 against non league schools? Why does swim teams put together their best lineup against other fed schools and swim off events for non - fed? League titles matter to coaches just as well as the players. Yes they will try hard no matter who they play but a league will give teams a goal to shoot for and a reason to motivate the team. If you don't have a team goal then you have nothing to shoot for and will lack motivation.

Would winning a league be good? Yes. But do I think it makes them work harder? No. You said yourself that the football team should play just as hard against Iggy as it would against Fairless. Don't you think these teams are playing as hard as they can against FED teams as compared to non Fed teams?

The kids already get recognized through all county awards.

Please explain HOW and WHY being in the FED for the other teams makes them better?

[Benchboss1]

I believe that joining the Federal league will force our coaches to take this approach in order to be successful in the league itself.


Are you saying that our coaches NEED to be in a league before they will do everything possible to make their sport/program as good as it can be? If that is the case, we certainly have the wrong coaches in those other sports!!!!

[Obie Wan]

And the Fed speaks: http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=18838&r=0&Category=2.

Looks like Massillon won't be joining the Fed anytime soon. You can all calm down now.

[Benchboss1]

I guess from what the article said, Blosser and Ridgley are better at .........how can I say this, expressing their feelings, yea that's it, than Hennon and Thornberry were. :jestera:

[tiger#22]

And the Fed speaks: http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=18838&r=0&Category=2.

Looks like Massillon won't be joining the Fed anytime soon. You can all calm down now.

That league doesnt want Massillon until it benefits them, and Fitch and Boardman arent leaving anytime soon. I would hope now the AD and admin will quit begging and pleading in the press and work for their $$$.

[Benchboss1]

That league doesnt want Massillon until it benefits them, and Fitch and Boardman arent leaving anytime soon. I would hope now the AD and admin will quit begging and pleading in the press and work for their $$$.


Great point #22. We can only hope that our administration realizes that the Federal League is only going to invite us when it suits them. They have absolutely no concern about our programs, yet we still beg, plead and grovel on our knees like little kids trying to stay up a half hour past their bed time. It is actually quite sad to see adults lower themselves to act this way, just to make their jobs easier. Very sad indeed.

[thaporch]

... we can take heed from looking at other schools in the league, including McKinley, and their consistent avoidance of such teams. Yes- we're Massillon, but SOMETHING must be afoot in the Fed to engender such avoidance.

I don't think the fed teams are cahoots with each other in their out of conference scheduling. Though I can see why you think that.

I'm embarrassed of two of our first three games. I can understand Central Catholic the same reason I want to play Massillon: A battle with the guys down the street. But Barberton and Canada?

We had a shot to set up a series with Moeller this off season but it didn't happen.

Jackson's non-league games are probably the strongest of any fed team... Westerville South, Nordonia and Hudson... but they're still not Eds Iggy and Elder... by a long shot.

I don't know why. I have no answer. If it were up to me I'd be playing them.

Even if the encouraged me as an AD to schedule lightly for the first three, I'd tell them, thanks but no thanks.

[CarlE]

Comics about our program/team begging!! See what I mean that the statements were definitely not thought out or rehearsed. Everytime I or anyone is interviewed at my job by a newspaper or veteran magazine we PREPARE so we do not say stupid things that make our organization look bad even if it was a joke or by accident. I AM MASSILLON is HE?

Unqualified person for his position.

Class Dismissed. And this WAS an adult-like response.

[Obie Wan]

I don't think the fed teams are cahoots with each other in their out of conference scheduling. Though I can see why you think that.
There is a somewhat legitmate reason for Hoover, Perry, et al not to play Massillon. Follow along: the Fed schools compete with each other not only for league honors, but for playoff spots as well. Because of the way the Harbins work, league teams are limited on the upper bound of points they can earn from league games. As such, they really need points from the first three games. If they play Massillon (or anyone) and lose, they are behind the 8-ball in the playoff race. It might be more palatable for, say, Perry to play Massillon if Hoover were playing Warren, etc. -- but it makes no sense for Perry to play Massillon when all of the other schools are scheduling for (and likely getting) points.

[DAWGH8R]

There is a somewhat legitmate reason for Hoover, Perry, et al not to play Massillon. Follow along: the Fed schools compete with each other not only for league honors, but for playoff spots as well. Because of the way the Harbins work, league teams are limited on the upper bound of points they can earn from league games. As such, they really need points from the first three games. If they play Massillon (or anyone) and lose, they are behind the 8-ball in the playoff race. It might be more palatable for, say, Perry to play Massillon if Hoover were playing Warren, etc. -- but it makes no sense for Perry to play Massillon when all of the other schools are scheduling for (and likely getting) points.

Which goes back to a thread I posted last year. With Masillon continuing to "schedule up" with the BIG BOYS, and McKinley content with building a "get the Harbins" schedule, we continue to jeopardize our chances at making the playoffs, and losing the OHIO's win leader title.

As we move toward the end of the decade, McKinley is making a push to gain ground on Massillon's OHIO's most wins title. Besides picking up easy wins, they put theirselves in a position to only play the best teams when FORCED to do so by the OHSAA playoff pairings.

While I'm not a supporter of joining the FED, we need to put ourselves in a position to win our scheduled games, all the while, earning enough points to qualify for post-season.

As we pound our chests about our "tough schedules", McKinley keeps racking up the wins and playoff births, where they can obtain more wins.

If McKinley should ever take over as OHIO's win leader, (they are 27 behind us), nobody will care that they did it beating Toledo Start, Washington DC and the Federal League brethren. And know one will care that we played the best there was.

I sure don't want my nose rubbed in that too !!

This is 2007. Things are starting to become quite different in HS football. It will be interesting to see if we change with the times.

[longtimefirsttime]

And the Fed speaks: http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=18838&r=0&Category=2.

Looks like Massillon won't be joining the Fed anytime soon. You can all calm down now.

Thank you Fitch! Thank you Boardman! Thank you Lake!

[DAWGH8R]

Thank you Fitch! Thank you Boardman! Thank you Lake!


Luckily, I don't know where these teams would go. They sure don't want to be independent.

[Keith]

Heck, you guys should forget the Fed and join The Greater Buckeye Conference. We've got room for a great program like yours. :biggrin:

[orangeblood]

Heck, you guys should forget the Fed and join The Greater Buckeye Conference. We've got room for a great program like yours. :biggrin:
I think it should be looked into.

[Keith]

Seriously it should be.

Consider this. The Northern Lakes League in Metro Toledo is considering expanding from it's current 8 member setup to a 10 or 12 team league. When that happens Napoleon will bolt from the GBC. They have made no bones about their desire to get into the NLL and will leave the Greater Buckeye in a flash, leaving the GBC as a 5 team league.

GBC schools are very used to travel. Sandusky to Lima, Fremont to Marion, etc, etc. These are trips that are taken several times a year by every school. The trip to and from Massillon might be a bit longer but nothing every GBC school doesn't do already.

I have made this suggestion over at the Fremont Ross Forum several times.
If and when Napoleon leaves the GBC, Mansfield Senior and Massillon should join creating the following league...in all sports....

Findlay
Fremont Ross
Lima Senior
Mansfield Senior
Marion Harding
Massillon Washington
Sandusky

You would have a very strong statewide conference in all sports. In football the Tigers could still have McKinley as their last game. In fact in week 10 of football you would have one conference with Ohios two oldest rivalries being played in the same week...#1, The Tigers and bulldogs and #2, The Little Giants and blue streaks.

In football you would still have room for 4 nonconference games.

I think it is worth a look.

[MTown]

Keith, for football....maybe.

For the tennis team, for example, there's no way that works. Massillon to Lima on a Tuesday for a match that can't even start until maybe 5:30 at the earliest....that's just not going to work.

That would have to be a football only move...and it's clear our Admin is looking for something all inclusive.

[Fats]

First, I like Massillon being an Independent. I like the freedom it gives our scheduling.

SECond, We must take care of our Massillon Tiger Football program, it pays for all the other minor sports. Our football program is what put us on the map and keeps us in the public eye. I do not want to lose that.
I believe that over the long run we will lose revenue by being in a league.

THIrd, Will players over the years after dominating most of the Fed programs in football still be hype up and ready to beat another glenoak team or a jackson team. I believe not. They love the competition of a Iggy or Harding.

Fourth, I do believe that we do field competitive teams against the Fed in Basketball, Baseball, Wrestling, Football. I believe that the cross country teams and soccer are starting to become more competitive, we just do not have the numbers.

Once again, I think we need to put pressure on the B.O.E. and the administration to answer questions. ?s on how FED or any league improves are revenue? How the lost of home games along with concessions and etc will be affected? Is the AD making an effort to schedule local teams?
Is it possible to have our minor sports join leagues separately? I believe the tennis team is in a conference.

[Fats]

How strong is the FEderal league? They have a member school that is charging a pay to participate fee. They have member schools that are scheduling football games against the likes of Canada. Their interest in football is not as great as our football program attracts.
So, do we want to join a league that football is not the king?

[SternRulz]

So are you saying that winning a league title has no bearing at all on the athletes? That they would rather win some games not get anything and go one and done in the tourney? A league title gives the players something to shoot for every year. It is a goal that teams in the league should have. If it doesn't make a difference why does baseball teams in the Fed pitch their ACE against other Fed schools and pitch their 2 or 3 against non league schools? Why does swim teams put together their best lineup against other fed schools and swim off events for non - fed? League titles matter to coaches just as well as the players. Yes they will try hard no matter who they play but a league will give teams a goal to shoot for and a reason to motivate the team. If you don't have a team goal then you have nothing to shoot for and will lack motivation.

The goal is to win the state championship, not the league. That should never be the goal. Ever.

[Fats]

Which goes back to a thread I posted last year. With Masillon continuing to "schedule up" with the BIG BOYS, and McKinley content with building a "get the Harbins" schedule, we continue to jeopardize our chances at making the playoffs, and losing the OHIO's win leader title.

As we move toward the end of the decade, McKinley is making a push to gain ground on Massillon's OHIO's most wins title. Besides picking up easy wins, they put theirselves in a position to only play the best teams when FORCED to do so by the OHSAA playoff pairings.

While I'm not a supporter of joining the FED, we need to put ourselves in a position to win our scheduled games, all the while, earning enough points to qualify for post-season.

As we pound our chests about our "tough schedules", McKinley keeps racking up the wins and playoff births, where they can obtain more wins.

If McKinley should ever take over as OHIO's win leader, (they are 27 behind us), nobody will care that they did it beating Toledo Start, Washington DC and the Federal League brethren. And know one will care that we played the best there was.

I sure don't want my nose rubbed in that too !!

This is 2007. Things are starting to become quite different in HS football. It will be interesting to see if we change with the times.

Some good points! Maybe we need to look at how we schedule and who we play. Of course the AD would have to work a little harder, gosh we would not want him to do that. MAYBE we should schedule Warren Harding on a yearly basis, but play Iggy every so often. I do Like playing the marquee game, but I agree the times are changing and we need to look at a harbin schedule. But we must remember we are Massillon. I really think the schedule put together this year is pretty good. Some top notch teams, and some easy prey. It should keep the fans interested in the season.

[massillon catholic]

Seriously it should be.

Consider this. The Northern Lakes League in Metro Toledo is considering expanding from it's current 8 member setup to a 10 or 12 team league. When that happens Napoleon will bolt from the GBC. They have made no bones about their desire to get into the NLL and will leave the Greater Buckeye in a flash, leaving the GBC as a 5 team league.

GBC schools are very used to travel. Sandusky to Lima, Fremont to Marion, etc, etc. These are trips that are taken several times a year by every school. The trip to and from Massillon might be a bit longer but nothing every GBC school doesn't do already.

I have made this suggestion over at the Fremont Ross Forum several times.
If and when Napoleon leaves the GBC, Mansfield Senior and Massillon should join creating the following league...in all sports....

Findlay
Fremont Ross
Lima Senior
Mansfield Senior
Marion Harding
Massillon Washington
Sandusky

You would have a very strong statewide conference in all sports. In football the Tigers could still have McKinley as their last game. In fact in week 10 of football you would have one conference with Ohios two oldest rivalries being played in the same week...#1, The Tigers and bulldogs and #2, The Little Giants and blue streaks.

In football you would still have room for 4 nonconference games.

I think it is worth a look.


NO CHANCE

[TigerVic]

There is a somewhat legitmate reason for Hoover, Perry, et al not to play Massillon. Follow along: the Fed schools compete with each other not only for league honors, but for playoff spots as well. Because of the way the Harbins work, league teams are limited on the upper bound of points they can earn from league games. As such, they really need points from the first three games. If they play Massillon (or anyone) and lose, they are behind the 8-ball in the playoff race. It might be more palatable for, say, Perry to play Massillon if Hoover were playing Warren, etc. -- but it makes no sense for Perry to play Massillon when all of the other schools are scheduling for (and likely getting) points.

So, if the Tigers would be in the Fed (thankfully not yet), wouldn't they do the same? This is (part of) thereason I questioned the realistic possibility of your hypothetical schedule.

I guess we can breath a sigh of relief until the next Fed crisis, when we offer to clean their sewers with our toothbrushes.

[Submariner]

Hey Tiger Fans, this is a powerful thread. I would like to think the Warren Harding AD will keep Massillon on our schedule. Since both Warren School combined back in 1990, there is no more Harding versus Reserve. Massillon is our lone true rival with history attached to it. McKinley comes and goes on our schedules, and as of late, we have not seen McKinley in a long time it seems. Question:

Say Harding joins the Federal League after Massillon. Will the original teams of the Federal League want to stay or go? I do not know the truth as to why Boardman and Austintown Fitch left the Steel Valley Conference, but the large consensus in Warren was consistent losing to Harding drove them away. Anyone can dispute that claim, but that was mentioned.

Playing Iggy, Ed's, Massillon are the big ticket draws in the north. Playing the Cincinnati school-powerhouses also are huge for large crowds, making a statement etc. When Tom McDaniels came to Harding we said get us a tougher schedule and we asked Trina to do the same. They got us that. We got tired of playing weaker teams, and as a result, we missed the playoffs one years by less than one computer point! We too are now opening our first game with Inkster Michigan. I thought I would never see the day, but we even play Erie Prep, some D.C. teams. This Federal League Issue may affect Warren as well. We will no doubt watch what Massillon does.

[TigerVic]

After all this, handing out the orange bags to all Tiger fans at a game will have a whole new meaning.

[massillon catholic]

Two articles in today's Inde and no apology from the AD. That speaks volumes to me!:bs:

[The Butler]

The goal is to win the state championship, not the league. That should never be the goal. Ever.

But what is wrong with intermediate goals? It's seems to me that the Buckeyes goals each year are 1) Beat Meatchicken; 2) Win the Big 10; and 3) Win the National Championship.

[SternRulz]

But what is wrong with intermediate goals? It's seems to me that the Buckeyes goals each year are 1) Beat Meatchicken; 2) Win the Big 10; and 3) Win the National Championship.

No, they Buckeyes goals are:

1) Beat Michigan
1) Win the Big 10
1) Win the National Championship

:2thumbsup:

[austinsm11]

But what is wrong with intermediate goals?

Nothing wrong with intermediate goals, but I don't think that joining a league with a major reason being the creation of an intermediate goal is a good idea like some implied.

Our other sports teams can set other intermediate goals like beating a rival team, finishing with a winning record, or advancing so far in the playoffs. Are they not putting forth their full effort to achieve these goals just because they are not in a league?

[massillon catholic]

Does the Federal League award Championships to Middle School sport champs? Just wondering.

[austinsm11]

Does the Federal League award Championships to Middle School sport champs? Just wondering.

I'm not sure. I thought I read somewhere that there is/was a league all sports trophy for the school that does the best overall in all sports, but I don't remember where I read it.

[massillon catholic]

Back in the day, there was Longfellow, Lorin Andrews and Jones. The Administration was able to schedule games for all three of these schools. Now, there is only one school to schedule for and the AD says its too hard to get games for the one school. What am I missing?

[Obie Wan]

Nothing wrong with intermediate goals, but I don't think that joining a league with a major reason being the creation of an intermediate goal is a good idea like some implied.
I'd agree with that. It's like those who say "diversity" is a goal. It's nice if it happens, but is that really the point of the exercise?

Back in the day, there was Longfellow, Lorin Andrews and Jones. The Administration was able to schedule games for all three of these schools. Now, there is only one school to schedule for and the AD says its too hard to get games for the one school. What am I missing?
That they used to play most of their games against each other?