IT'S BACK!! The one and only FED thread, (others will be deleted)...

[austinsm11]

Psst. we can't be in both 5th and 9th.

When we drop from 5th everyone else moves up.

sooo...



LEVEL-1 LEVEL-2 AVERAGE RANK CITY HIGH SCHOOL NAME W L
57.0000 262.0000 31.9000 1 FREMONT
53.0000 255.0000 31.5880 2 CANTON
59.0000 220.5000 27.9500 3 BRUNSWICK
52.0000 225.5000 27.7500 4 Perry

41.5000 204.5000 24.6000 5 MEDINA
46.0000 189.0000 23.6900 6 ST JOHNS
39.5000 179.0000 21.8500 7 WHITMER
19.3974 8 MASSILLON
39.5000 151.5000 19.2530 9 NORTH CANTON

Gotcha....I apologize. Hadn't considered Massillon not being 5th.

[Spize]

Ever hear of Mansfield or Marion Harding? Or are they not in R2?

Lowest in DI history? I guess you can't even bother to look at the #8 seed in R1 THIS YEAR.

What about Mansfield or Marion Harding?

[austinsm11]

so do you think Massillon is in this year under a FED schedule?

[Spize]

so do you think Massillon is in this year under a FED schedule?

Not sure, I am checking your Math, but I am having some trouble with the hypothetical.

Do you have Fitch/Boardman still in with us as a 9th FED team, or are you counting it as a 6 team FED.

[austinsm11]

What about Mansfield or Marion Harding?

Check the 02 playoffs.

[Spize]

so do you think Massillon is in this year under a FED schedule?

This year, maybe. I would definately say the L2 points would have been better this year, but enough to get us in really depends on a few things.

Even if it would have been better this year, one year does not a good decision make. The simple facts are that in most years the FED schedule would result in less points and a lower chance at the playoffs.

[austinsm11]

Not sure, I am checking your Math, but I am having some trouble with the hypothetical.

Do you have Fitch/Boardman still in with us as a 9th FED team, or are you counting it as a 6 team FED.

I probably messed something up somewhere...Like I said, I don't know much about this system....I think I have taken out boardman out but forgot fitch.....had middleton,solon, normandy, and ursuline as our ooc since I doubt we would play iggy or mentor then

[Spize]

Check the 02 playoffs.

Doesn't disprove anything really. That was a horrid year in that Region, look at the records for teams in that region. Nevermind that it wouldn't affect us at all given that we were not in that region.

That region layout was exactly the reason the OHSAA moved the regions back the way they were (we, stark county, were moved to R3 that year and the OHSAA quickly moved us back.)

[Spize]

I probably messed something up somewhere...Like I said, I don't know much about this system....I think I have taken out boardman out but forgot fitch.....had middleton,solon, normandy, and ursuline as our ooc since I doubt we would play iggy or mentor then

Which is one of my points... we would no longer play any marquee competition. The FED does nothing but water Massillon down.

[austinsm11]

Doesn't disprove anything really. That was a horrid year in that Region, look at the records for teams in that region. Nevermind that it wouldn't affect us at all given that we were not in that region.

That region layout was exactly the reason the OHSAA moved the regions back the way they were (we, stark county, were moved to R3 that year and the OHSAA quickly moved us back.)

I'm just saying that I wouldn't call GO getting in a fluke. Were they lucky? Yes ....but who gets in with low point totals depends on the whole region, not just the FED.

[austinsm11]

Well, since it looks like we are going to disagree about the FED being good from the standpoint of just getting into the playoffs, here is another question:

Is it better to make the playoffs after being tested by some good independent teams (and maybe beaten up a bit) or is it better to make the playoffs with an easier FED schedule (but maybe not tested as much)?

I really think that the 2005 schedule prepared us for the playoffs pretty well. But then look at the runs McKinley has made after playing a FED schedule.

I'm not really sure what the answer is here.

[Spize]

Well, since it looks like we are going to disagree about the FED being good from the standpoint of just getting into the playoffs, here is another question:

Is it better to make the playoffs after being tested by some good independent teams (and maybe beaten up a bit) or is it better to make the playoffs with an easier FED schedule (but maybe not tested as much)?

I really think that the 2005 schedule prepared us for the playoffs pretty well. But then look at the runs McKinley has made after playing a FED schedule.

I'm not really sure what the answer is here.

Take the playoff accomplishments of ALL FED teams and then take ours against it. (Remember to account for former FED teams and that not all teams currently in FED were not always in the FED)

It is very telling.

[austinsm11]

Take the playoff accomplishments of ALL FED teams and then take ours against it. (Remember to account for former FED teams and that not all teams currently in FED were not always in the FED)

It is very telling.

While I see your point, the FED teams in general are not as strong as Massillon, McKinley or the Iggy's, Mentors, Warrens, etc. My whole point about joining the FED would be getting wins over pretty good, but not great teams. I think that we would have to compare ourselves to McKinley when looking at what the FED would do as far as playoffs for us and not the other FED teams.

I believe this is the first time McKinley has not made the playoffs while in the FED. They also have gone to the state finals and regional finals. Who knows how far they would have gone in 2005 if not for Massillon.

Again, I don't the answer to this. Did McKinley make such great runs because they improved each week while not getting too banged up? Or did they make their runs in spite of being in the FED?

[Spize]

While I see your point, the FED teams in general are not as strong as Massillon, McKinley or the Iggy's, Mentors, Warrens, etc. My whole point about joining the FED would be getting wins over pretty good, but not great teams. I think that we would have to compare ourselves to McKinley when looking at what the FED would do as far as playoffs for us and not the other FED teams.

I believe this is the first time McKinley has not made the playoffs while in the FED. They also have gone to the state finals and regional finals. Who knows how far they would have gone in 2005 if not for Massillon.

Again, I don't the answer to this. Did McKinley make such great runs because they improved each week while not getting too banged up? Or did they make their runs in spite of being in the FED?

Once again, take a look at their playoff records since joining the FED

Compare it to ours over the same period

Compare it to the theirs before they joined.

Now I ask you.

Did a harder schedule make them more prepared, or bang them up too much to be competitive?

[austinsm11]

Once again, take a look at their playoff records since joining the FED

Compare it to ours over the same period


Since joining the FED McK is 11-4, 12-1, 12-2, 3-7 making the playoffs 3 of 4 years. They were in the state finals, state semifinals, and regional finals.

Since joining the FED Massillon is 4-6, 13-2, 7-5, 6-4 making the playoffs 2 of 4 years. Massillon was in the state finals and I believe the regional semifinals.

Compare it to the theirs before they joined.

Again, since joining the FED McK is 11-4, 12-1, 12-2, 3-7 making the playoffs 3 of 4 years. They were in the state finals, state semifinals, and regional finals.

If I take the 4 years before the FED, McK was 3-6, 8-3, 3-7, 3-7 with one playoff appearance. They were in the regional semifinal.


From looking at the 4 years before and 4 years during the FED, it seems to me like they were better since joining the FED. There are a few problems, however. I don't know that there is enough data since joining the FED. Going back farther, McK had won 2 state titles pre-FED. I think we can all agree those were pretty exceptional teams with players from those teams in the NFL. I think that from 1992-1999 they made the playoffs every year. So why the poor records just before joining the FED? Has their talent level gone down? Could it be from the changes of coaches?

Would the 2004-2006 McKinley teams have done as well or made the playoffs even playing schedules similiar to ours? It's hard to say.

[CarlE]

Once again, take a look at their playoff records since joining the FED

Compare it to ours over the same period

Compare it to the theirs before they joined.

Now I ask you.

Did a harder schedule make them more prepared, or bang them up too much to be competitive?


I think austinsm11's quote pretty much answers your questions. At LEAST as it relates to McKinley.

[austinsm11]

I think austinsm11's quote pretty much answers your questions. At LEAST as it relates to McKinley.

The reason that I was comparing McKinley and not the others is because I already told Spize that I think that we can beat the "other" FED teams most years. I think they are pretty good, but not great teams. Pretty good teams are not going to make long playoff runs very often.

The team most like us to compare to is McK.


I honestly don't know what the answer is Carle. I see advantages/disadvantages for joining the FED., not just in football, but for the other sports as well.

[DaveDawg]

More information to toss out about McKinley in Fed.

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8387/jtf08es0.jpg
Canton McKinley In The Federal League (Records, Player and Team)

BELOW INFORMATION IS INDIVIDUAL AND TEAM RECORDS IN
FEDERAL LEAGUE GAMES ONLY SINCE CANTON McKINLEY
JOINED THE FEDERAL LEAGUE in 2004
__________________________________________________ ____
LIST OF FEDERAL LEAGUE CHAMPIONS
2007 - North Canton Hoover
2006 - CANTON McKINLEY
2005 - CANTON McKINLEY
2004 - Austintown Fitch
__________________________________________________ ____

__________________________________________________ ____

TEAM RECORDS IN GAMES SINCE 2004

__________________________________________________ ____
FEDERAL LEAGUE ONLY-------------------------------------------------
(28 games) 22-06; McKINLEY
(28 games) 16-12; Hoover
(28 games) 16-12; Jackson
(28 games) 15-13; Perry
(28 games) 13-15; Lake
(28 games) 12-16; Austintown Fitch
(28 games) 11-17; GlenOak
(28 games) 07-21; Boardman
__________________________________________________ ____
ALL GAMES---------------------------------------------------------------
(49 games) 35-14; McKINLEY
(44 games) 26-18; Lake
(43 games) 25-18; Hoover
(41 games) 23-18; Jackson
(41 games) 22-19; Perry
(43 games) 21-22; GlenOak
(41 games) 19-22; Austintown Fitch
(42 games) 12-30; Boardman
__________________________________________________ ____

[austinsm11]

So DaveDawg:

Are you happy being in the FED? Would you rather be independent? What do you see as the advantages and disadvantages?

[Purple Hayes]

Is it better to make the playoffs after being tested by some good independent teams (and maybe beaten up a bit) or is it better to make the playoffs with an easier FED schedule (but maybe not tested as much)?

I don't think there is any correlation to strength of schedule and playoff success. How do you explain Glenville beating St. Ignatius in the playoffs the past 2 years? Do you really think the Cleveland Senate League prepared Glenville better than Iggy's independent schedule.

As for your question on McKinley's State Championship Teams of 97 and 98 and the implication that since they were independent they must have scheduled up, I'll post the schedules and you can come to your own conclusions (I see quite a few Federal League Teams on there).

1997 VARSITY SCHEDULE - CLICK ON SCORE FOR RECAP, BOXSCORE AND STATS
* denotes Federal League league game
Record: 14 - 0, 3 - 0 in Federal League
DATE OPPONENT TIME RESULT
Akron Garfield (Reg. Season) W 45 - 0
Canton Glen Oak (Reg. Season) * W 44 - 6
at Massillon Jackson (Reg. Season) * W 55 - 13
Mentor (Reg. Season) W 49 - 0
Cleveland Glenville (Reg. Season) W 70 - 0
Canton Central Catholic (Reg. Season) W 51 - 12
Cleveland St. Ignatius (Reg. Season) W 35 - 32
at Warren Harding (Reg. Season) W 30 - 9
Louisville St. Thomas Aquinas (Reg. Season) W 70 - 0
Massillon Washington (Reg. Season) W 27 - 14
North Canton Hoover (State Region Semi) * W 40 - 8
Toledo St. Francis de Sales (State Region Final) W 25 - 22
Cleveland St. Ignatius (State Semi-Final) W 20 - 19
Cincinnati Archbishop Moeller (State Championship) W 31 - 16

1998 VARSITY SCHEDULE - CLICK ON SCORE FOR RECAP, BOXSCORE AND STATS
* denotes Federal League league game
Record: 12 - 1, 3 - 0 in Federal League
DATE OPPONENT TIME RESULT
Akron Garfield (Reg. Season) W 18 - 13
Canton Glen Oak (Reg. Season) * W 42 - 6
Massillon Jackson (Reg. Season) * W 34 - 16
Toledo St. Francis de Sales (Reg. Season) W 21 - 0
Canton Central Catholic (Reg. Season) W 31 - 14
at Cleveland St. Ignatius (Reg. Season) L 31 - 21
Warren Harding (Reg. Season) W 20 - 16
Louisville St. Thomas Aquinas (Reg. Season) W 48 - 7
at Massillon Washington (Reg. Season) W 42 - 20
Massillon Jackson (State Region Semi) * W 17 - 13
Marion Harding (State Region Final) W 14 - 7
Cleveland St. Ignatius (State Semi-Final) W 31 - 24
Cincinnati St. Xavier (State Championship) W 33 - 10

[DaveDawg]

So DaveDawg:

Are you happy being in the FED? Would you rather be independent? What do you see as the advantages and disadvantages?Let's keep my answer to football only...
I am pro-Federal League.
Happy to be here!
You can look back while we were an independent and we had a very hard time getting 10 games a season...we had 9 games too many seasons until Fed, and we could not pay a school to come to Fawcett each season the way you Tigers could year in and year out. Now we have two game to fill each season-TWO!
We dropped off the schedule Saint Ignatius and Warren and that does not make me happy for both schools to come off, but we do play 8 division 1 schools almost every year now, many more than before the Federal League. (I'd like to see Harding come back to the schedule...we'll see.)
I see it like this, FOR McKINLEY & THE FED, the Pups get better as the season goes along, if McK can get through the FED with a shot a week 11, that's great with me...McKinley typically gets better as the season gets later and who wants to face a McKinley team in round 1 of the playoffs any year? I will take a shot at winning a league title, getting a shot a Massillon and a then the playoffs EVERY time than rather take on a schedule like you Tigers have the past few years because major "big boys" only come calling on INDEPENDENT McKINLEY or INDEPENDENT MASSILLON when they see a great underclassmen group coming up in thier system and then want home and home series, a big disadvantage without a league, so you play a hard sked and have less than better chance to no shot at week 11.
Now am I going to raise a Fereral League Championship banner out over Fawcett Stadium, no...but I will support my team and cherish wins and losses in the Federal because it's what I do, support my Bulldogs...getting a state title is always tops on the list for any Bulldog and the Federal League is helping McKinley more than hurting McKinley to get to that goal.
I think Massillon and the Fed will be a good fit when something happens to get you in (expansion into a mega league or if someone exits). Time will tell.
And don't worry about stadium size until you have to, that will take care of itself.

http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1853/jtf21oe.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Tentative Future McKinley Football Schedules


McK 2008
1/ Fri. Aug. 22 - Detroit (Mi.) Pershing
2/ Fri. Aug. 29 - vs TBA at Ohio vs USA Challenge
3/ Fri. Sep. 5 - at Uniontown Lake*
4/ Fri. Sep. 12 - Massillon Jackson*
5/ Sat. Sep. 20 - North Canton Hoover*
6/ Fri. Sep. 26 - at Canton GlenOak*
7/ Fri. Oct. 3 - Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
8/ Sat. Oct. 11 - Massillon Perry*
9/ Fri. Oct. 17 - at Youngstown Boardman*
10/Sat. Oct. 25 - at Massillon Washington
11/Sat. Nov. 1 - region quarterfinals
12/Sat. Nov. 8 - region semifinals
13/Sat. Nov. 15 - region championship
14/Sat. Nov. 22 - state semifinals
15/Sat. Nov. 29 - state championship


McK 2009
1/F/S., Aug. 21/22 - open date
2/F/S., Aug. 28/29 - open date
3/Fri., Sep. 5 - Uniontown Lake*
4/Fri., Sep. 11 - at Massillon Jackson*
5/Fri., Sep. 18 - at North Canton Hoover*
6/Sat., Sep. 26 - Canton GlenOak*
7/Fri., Oct. 2 - at Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
8/Fri., Oct. 9 - at Massillon Perry*
9/Sat., Oct. 17 - Youngstown Boardman*
10/Sat., Oct. 24 - Massillon Washington
11/Sat., Oct. 31 - region quarterfinals
12/Sat., Nov. 7 - region semifinals
13/Sat., Nov. 14 - region championship
14/Sat., Nov. 21 - state semifinals
15/Sat., Nov. 28 - state championship


McK 2010
1/ - open date
2/ - open date
3/ - at Uniontown Lake*
4/ - at Youngstown Boardman*
5/ - Massillon Jackson*
6/ - North Canton Hoover*
7/ - at Canton GlenOak*
8/ - Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
9/ - Massillon Perry*
10/ - at Massillon Washington
11/ - region quarterfinals
12/ - region semifinals
13/ - region championship
14/ - state semifinals
15/ - state championship


McK 2011
1/ - open date
2/ - open date
3/ - Uniontown Lake*
4/ - Youngstown Boardman*
5/ - at Massillon Jackson*
6/ - at North Canton Hoover*
7/ - Canton GlenOak*
8/ - at Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
9/ - at Massillon Perry*
10/ - Massillon Washington
11/ - region quarterfinals
12/ - region semifinals
13/ - region championship
14/ - state semifinals
15/ - state championship


McK 2012
1/ - open date
2/ - open date
3/ - at Uniontown Lake*
4/ - Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
5/ - Massillon Perry*
6/ - at Youngstown Boardman*
7/ - Massillon Jackson*
8/ - North Canton Hoover*
9/ - at Canton GlenOak*
10/ - at Massillon Washington
11/ - region quarterfinals
12/ - region semifinals
13/ - region championship
14/ - state semifinals
15/ - state championship


McK 2013
1/ - open date
2/ - open date
3/ - Uniontown Lake*
4/ - at Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
5/ - at Massillon Perry*
6/ - Youngstown Boardman*
7/ - at Massillon Jackson*
8/ - at North Canton Hoover*
9/ - Canton GlenOak*
10/ - Massillon Washington
11/ - region quarterfinals
12/ - region semifinals
13/ - region championship
14/ - state semifinals
15/ - state championship


McK 2014
1/ - open date
2/ - open date
3/ - at Uniontown Lake*
4/ - at Canton GlenOak*
5/ - Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
6/ - Massillon Perry*
7/ - at Youngstown Boardman*
8/ - Massillon Jackson*
9/ - North Canton Hoover*
10/ - at Massillon Washington
11/ - region quarterfinals
12/ - region semifinals
13/ - region championship
14/ - state semifinals
15/ - state championship


McK 2015
1/ - open date
2/ - open date
3/ - Uniontown Lake*
4/ - Canton GlenOak*
5/ - at Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
6/ - at Massillon Perry*
7/ - Youngstown Boardman*
8/ - at Massillon Jackson*
9/ - at North Canton Hoover*
10/ - Massillon Washington
11/ - region quarterfinals
12/ - region semifinals
13/ - region championship
14/ - state semifinals
15/ - state championship


McK 2016
1/ - open date
2/ - open date
3/ - at Uniontown Lake*
4/ - North Canton Hoover*
5/ - at Canton GlenOak*
6/ - Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
7/ - Massillon Perry*
8/ - at Youngstown Boardman*
9/ - Massillon Jackson*
10/ - at Massillon Washington
11/ - region quarterfinals
12/ - region semifinals
13/ - region championship
14/ - state semifinals
15/ - state championship


McK 2017
1/ - open date
2/ - open date
3/ - Uniontown Lake*
4/ - at North Canton Hoover*
5/ - Canton GlenOak*
6/ - at Youngstown Austintown-Fitch*
7/ - at Massillon Perry*
8/ - Youngstown Boardman*
9/ - at Massillon Jackson*
10/ - Massillon Washington
11/ - region quarterfinals
12/ - region semifinals
13/ - region championship
14/ - state semifinals
15/ - state championship

[DaveDawg]

When you get to the playoffs you have to keep getting better each and every week, you have to lucky and you have to be a good football team.
McKinley was all the above in winning in 81 97 and 98 and this despite Thom McDainels in 97 and a 19-6 Ignatius lead in the forth quarter at the Rubber Bowl.

Thom liked to talk a good game, "We'll we took a hard look at our selves and decided if you want to beat the best, you have to play the best."
McKinley - 16 years 1 title
Warren - 5 years 0 titles
Jackson - 1 year 0 titles
IMO- 20+ years and lucky and good has one title, while "If you want to beat the best, you have to play the best." has ZERO

Is Jackson going to be knocking on St. Ignatius door to play 'em in Jackson, how about Moeller's or Colerain's...NO, he does not have to in the Fed!!!!! At Warren he had 7 open dates to fill, he stuck with his song and dance he knew...But if he somehow makes it to a championship and gets the "W" in Jackson, will everyone want to seek a membership into the Federal League who is not in it?
Maybe.

Switching gears
Fed teams advancing in playoffs
2004- McKinley in Title game
2005- McKinley in region championship game (Massillon in title game)
2006- McKinley in state semifinals
2007- Hoover in region championship

Fed teams are getting the chance, it's all you can ask of a league.

[austinsm11]

I don't think there is any correlation to strength of schedule and playoff success. How do you explain Glenville beating St. Ignatius in the playoffs the past 2 years? Do you really think the Cleveland Senate League prepared Glenville better than Iggy's independent schedule.

As for your question on McKinley's State Championship Teams of 97 and 98 and the implication that since they were independent they must have scheduled up, I'll post the schedules and you can come to your own conclusions (I see quite a few Federal League Teams on there).


So then are you implying that since Glenville had an easier schedule, maybe they were less beat up and had less injuires which helped them beat Iggy? Or, If strength of schedule has nothing to do with playoff success, then I guess Massillon schould go to the FED where they would make the playoffs more often and have more shots at a state championship.

As far as the 97/98 teams, I wasn't implying anything about their schedule. My point about them having all the outstanding NFL type talent was they would have won regardless of who they played.

[TigerVic]

In regards to the McK schedules listed by DaveDawg, they might get you to the playoffs, but man, what a boring schedule, especially when you don't fill it in with anything but the Canadian and weak Toledo teams in those first two games. Add in the small stadiums and the same-old same-old offenses/defenses that do nothing for playoff time and I say- Better dead than Fed!!

I think McK has done well in the playoffs recently DESPITE being in the Fed, not because of it. In 20 years, we'll see how homogenized McK is in being looked at as just another Jackson or Glenoak.

[DaveDawg]

In regards to the McK schedules listed by DaveDawg, they might get you to the playoffs, but man, what a boring schedule, especially when you don't fill it in with anything but the Canadian and weak Toledo teams in those first two games. Add in the small stadiums and the same-old same-old offenses/defenses that do nothing for playoff time and I say- Better dead than Fed!!

I think McK has done well in the playoffs recently DESPITE being in the Fed, not because of it. In 20 years, we'll see how homogenized McK is in being looked at as just another Jackson or Glenoak.

Boring schedule? Take a look at what McKinley's schedules were like before the Federal League taking out Stark county schools...talk about boring and open dates, it was a big problem. Boring? Boring was playing out of state and lower division schools, now there are 7 D1 on the sked. Boring? Recent games against Perry ('06 17,000) and GlenOak ('06 15,000) in TWO games at Fawcett have put more butts in seats in than any of the following non-stark county games we played before the Fed. It may not be exciting to you, but it was to more than 32,000 people in two fed games.

1999
Akron Garfield
Akron Buchtel
at Toledo St. Francis DeSales
at Grove City
Cleveland Heights
Cleveland St. Ignatius
at Warren Harding
Hamilton (Ontario, Canada) Waterdown

2000
Akron Garfield
Akron Buchtel
Cincinnati LaSalle
Grove City
Cleveland Heights
at Cleveland St. Ignatius
Warren Harding
Open Date

2001
Macedonia Nordonia
Hamilton (Ontario, Canada) Waterdown District
open date
at Grove City
Washington D.C., Theodore Roosevelt
Cleveland St. Ignatius
at Warren Harding
at Cincinnati LaSalle

2002
Hamilton (Ontario, Canada) Waterdown District
Grove City
Washington D.C., Theodore Roosevelt
at Cleveland St. Ignatius
Warren Harding
Rochester (NY) Aquinas Institude

2003
Washington D.C. Ballou
Hamilton (Ontario, Canada) Waterdown District
at Marion Harding
Cleveland St. Ignatius
at Warren Harding


Tiger Vic, the Fed gets you into the playoffs plain and simple. As for the thinking that we'll see an homogenized effect at McKinley because of the league, THAT CAN'T HAPPEN, and why?, because our team picture will never look like any of the other Fed schools to be blunt about it...McKinley will survive the Fed because of it and be better off with it than without...
Will Massillon be better off without it?

[Smitty]

So then are you implying that since Glenville had an easier schedule, maybe they were less beat up and had less injuires which helped them beat Iggy?.....

God knows there's not an easier "league" than the Cleveland City league... 'cept MAYBE the Cincinnati or Columbus City leagues. (This is arguing which lame old horse is the slowest.) So, the strength-of-league is NOT a valid argument with regard to qualifying for the playoffs.

As to how the league PREPARES a team for the playoffs,... we'll continue to debate that one for awhile longer.

I prefer not to see our schedule so stinkin' BRUTAL as it has been (eg. Iggy & Mentor games back-to-back); but I'd hate to see it become FED as well.

Isn't there a happy medium?

[TigerVic]

As for the thinking that we'll see an homogenized effect at McKinley because of the league, THAT CAN'T HAPPEN, and why?, because our team picture will never look like any of the other Fed schools to be blunt about it...McKinley will survive the Fed because of it and be better off with it than without...
Will Massillon be better off without it?

I guess boring is in the eyes of the beholder.

When I said "homogenized", i did not mean demographically- I meant in terms of the football styles and expectations that a Fed team has.

If you roll around in manure, eventually you'll smell like it.

[DaveDawg]

I guess boring is in the eyes of the beholder.

When I said "homogenized", i did not mean demographically- I meant in terms of the football styles and expectations that a Fed team has.

If you roll around in manure, eventually you'll smell like it.
McKinley and Massillon have been rolling around for a long time and I think there is a funk there too.
Vic, could a conference be better for McKinley and in turn Massillon, YES! But where is it?
Could the Federal League change for the better, I think so, but it's not going to happen because of me.
How are you going to react if and when your administration gains your Tigers entry to the Fed? They are fighting for it....right?

[TigerVic]

McKinley and Massillon have been rolling around for a long time and I think there is a funk there too.
Vic, could a conference be better for McKinley and in turn Massillon, YES! But where is it?
Could the Federal League change for the better, I think so, but it's not going to happen because of me.
How are you going to react if and when your administration gains your Tigers entry to the Fed? They are fighting for it....right?

Dave,

If a conference was suitable, I'd say join it. There is not currently one that is suitable, in my opinion, for Massillon OR McKinley. Unless there is a state law that says we must join a conference, then I'd stay independent until such a conference arises (I think the Fed is fine for non-football sports for the Tigers, but not football- that is sacred in Massillon).

If Massillon joined the Fed, I'd still support them while their identity as the Massillon Tigers slowly ebbs away into being just another Stark County team.

Something you or I cannot control as well: Besides the Fed not being a good fit for the Tigers, why should we become engaged to a girl who won't even go out on a date with us (i.e., some Fed schools refuse to play us as one of their non-league games)?

[PurpleArmy]

Dave,

If a conference was suitable, I'd say join it. There is not currently one that is suitable, in my opinion, for Massillon OR McKinley. Unless there is a state law that says we must join a conference, then I'd stay independent until such a conference arises (I think the Fed is fine for non-football sports for the Tigers, but not football- that is sacred in Massillon).

If Massillon joined the Fed, I'd still support them while their identity as the Massillon Tigers slowly ebbs away into being just another Stark County team.

Something you or I cannot control as well: Besides the Fed not being a good fit for the Tigers, why should we become engaged to a girl who won't even go out on a date with us (i.e., some Fed schools refuse to play us as one of their non-league games)?

What, in your opinion, would be considered a "suitable" league situation for Massillon ?

Regarding the Federal League teams that haven't scheduled Mass for their non-league games, I believe that with a few of those schools, the offer from Massillon was not acceptable. From what I had heard, this was due to the fact that Massillon wanted all home games. This could be just heresay, but I heard from quite a few people that was the reason FL schools didn't accept an agreement with Massillon to play them as a non-league opponent.

That being said, I agree with you that Massillon shouldn't keep trying to join the league when it's obvious that the league doesn't want them as a member. I think that if Massillon's AD and administration wants to be part of a league, they should find one that DOES want them and join that one.

Continuing to beg for admittance to a league that doesn't want or need them just makes Massillon's administrators look desperate, and it really belittles their program. They're better than that, imo.

[Smitty]

... I believe that with a few of those schools, the offer from Massillon was not acceptable. From what I had heard, this was due to the fact that Massillon wanted all home games. This could be just heresay....

Consider the history, financial packages, & such; Massillon hasn't had much problem getting most opponents to play a series with all games at PBTS (eg. Ursuline '72--'74, Gahanna Lincoln '76-'77, Akron Garfield, et al.) Frankly, it's a rather short list of "non-rival" opponents that have hosted the Tigers (eg. UA, Moe, Iggy, Middletown, Lima); and often "away" games are played at a venue other than "their" home field (like the Rubber Bowl or Byers Field).

Is playing "at Massillon" necessarily a bad thing? PBTS isn't exactly a lousy place for a football game.

From what YOU've heard: what kind of negotiating went on? Did the "other" school's AD make a counter offer?... or just make a blanket rejection of the offer from the Massillon AD?? Hmmm???

:eyemouth:

... Continuing to beg ... look(s) desperate....

No kidding. :wall:

[Fats]

McKinley joining the Fed may have been a good fit for them. They were having trouble filling a ten game schedule(so far Massillon has not) they were already playing some Fed teams.
Before we join any league(FED or some other) the B.O.E. and administration needs to answer some questions and not just talk about taking out the trash.
First - loss revenue because of less home games. How will this affect the loss of 50-50 money(usually in the $2000 dollar range). Concession revenue. Ticket sales.
The Tiger Football program is a source of revenue for alot of our minor sports and Swing Band. How will this loss affect those programs and how will the loss of this revenue be made up? No one has answered these questions?

Ticket Sales - If we only get 2000 to 2500 tickets to a game at a FED stadium how will this affect revenue. Even if we play the Sisters of Mercy at home we at least have revenue of our season tickets sales and a walk up crowd, this will likely be more than getting 2500 tickets to play Massillon Jackson. Also, will the lack of tickets to these FED away games drive some of the buyers of season tickets away and also for home games against the FED will sales lack after we have beaten a FED team on a consistent basis over the years and they are coming in as an underdog. Fact - looking at playoff games with FED(especially North Canton) sales have not been record breaking.
Reputation - Lets face it our Tiger Program is known across the country and state because we play a independent schedule. Over the years will our national renown lose its luster? That is something IMO our FAns and Program does not want to lose.
Facts our Facts- Our Massillon Program would bring revenue to the Fed league, our national stature will give credence to the FED being a top notch league. NFL Films did not do a story on Massillon Jackson vs Massillon Tigers rivalry. Sports Illustrated does not report on the North Canton vs Massillon Tigers game.
IMO Massillon needs to be Independent until a league that fits our needs comes around. If need be why not search for a league that will take all of our other sports and let our Massillon Tiger Football program stay independent.

[PurpleArmy]

Is playing "at Massillon" necessarily a bad thing? PBTS isn't exactly a lousy place for a football game.

From what YOU've heard: what kind of negotiating went on? Did the "other" school's AD make a counter offer?... or just make a blanket rejection of the offer from the Massillon AD?? Hmmm???



First off, there's no need for the antagonistic behavior.

Secondly, I heard this from a friend of the Jackson AD a couple years ago. It was when Massillon had no week 1 game and wanted to schedule Jackson for a 3 years series.

What I was told was that Jackson already had an arrangement in the works to play Westerville South, but they talked to Massilln about possibly playing. However, Massillon wanted all 3 games to be a PBTS and Jackson wanted 1 of the game to be at Fife Stadium. Massillon didn't want to budge on the game at Fife, so Jackson declined to have the series with them. Once everything fell through, Jackson went ahead with their plans to play Westerville for 3 years.

And again, this is just what I was told by someone else, but it's a pretty reliable source.

As far as why not have all 3 games at PBTS- maybe the Jackson AD didn't think it was all about gate revenue and felt that the Jackson players deserved at least one game on tier home field. After all, football is not all about money and season ticket holders- it's played by the KIDS, and they are what should be everyone's first consideration. I don't know many players who would voluntarily sacrifice their only home game in a 3 year series. Most coaches wouldn't either.

[hartville tiger]

First off, there's no need for the antagonistic behavior.

Secondly, I heard this from a friend of the Jackson AD a couple years ago. It was when Massillon had no week 1 game and wanted to schedule Jackson for a 3 years series.

What I was told was that Jackson already had an arrangement in the works to play Westerville South, but they talked to Massilln about possibly playing. However, Massillon wanted all 3 games to be a PBTS and Jackson wanted 1 of the game to be at Fife Stadium. Massillon didn't want to budge on the game at Fife, so Jackson declined to have the series with them. Once everything fell through, Jackson went ahead with their plans to play Westerville for 3 years.

And again, this is just what I was told by someone else, but it's a pretty reliable source.

As far as why not have all 3 games at PBTS- maybe the Jackson AD didn't think it was all about gate revenue and felt that the Jackson players deserved at least one game on tier home field. After all, football is not all about money and season ticket holders- it's played by the KIDS, and they are what should be everyone's first consideration. I don't know many players who would voluntarily sacrifice their only home game in a 3 year series. Most coaches wouldn't either.
Build a stadium that holds 12-15000 and Massillon will come. Unlike jackson the tigers football program funds all other sports at Massillon.

[LLRose]

McKinley joining the Fed may have been a good fit for them. They were having trouble filling a ten game schedule(so far Massillon has not) they were already playing some Fed teams.
Before we join any league(FED or some other) the B.O.E. and administration needs to answer some questions and not just talk about taking out the trash.
First - loss revenue because of less home games. How will this affect the loss of 50-50 money(usually in the $2000 dollar range). Concession revenue. Ticket sales.
The Tiger Football program is a source of revenue for alot of our minor sports and Swing Band. How will this loss affect those programs and how will the loss of this revenue be made up? No one has answered these questions?

Ticket Sales - If we only get 2000 to 2500 tickets to a game at a FED stadium how will this affect revenue. Even if we play the Sisters of Mercy at home we at least have revenue of our season tickets sales and a walk up crowd, this will likely be more than getting 2500 tickets to play Massillon Jackson. Also, will the lack of tickets to these FED away games drive some of the buyers of season tickets away and also for home games against the FED will sales lack after we have beaten a FED team on a consistent basis over the years and they are coming in as an underdog. Fact - looking at playoff games with FED(especially North Canton) sales have not been record breaking.
Reputation - Lets face it our Tiger Program is known across the country and state because we play a independent schedule. Over the years will our national renown lose its luster? That is something IMO our FAns and Program does not want to lose.
Facts our Facts- Our Massillon Program would bring revenue to the Fed league, our national stature will give credence to the FED being a top notch league. NFL Films did not do a story on Massillon Jackson vs Massillon Tigers rivalry. Sports Illustrated does not report on the North Canton vs Massillon Tigers game.
IMO Massillon needs to be Independent until a league that fits our needs comes around. If need be why not search for a league that will take all of our other sports and let our Massillon Tiger Football program stay independent.

This post has many examples of the change in culture that must occur to take the program to the next level.

[Obie Wan]

First - loss revenue because of less home games. How will this affect the loss of 50-50 money(usually in the $2000 dollar range). Concession revenue. Ticket sales.

The Tiger Football program is a source of revenue for alot of our minor sports and Swing Band. How will this loss affect those programs and how will the loss of this revenue be made up? No one has answered these questions?
Fewer home games does not always mean less revenue. This has been addressed in great depth elsewhere.

Ticket Sales - If we only get 2000 to 2500 tickets to a game at a FED stadium how will this affect revenue. Even if we play the Sisters of Mercy at home we at least have revenue of our season tickets sales and a walk up crowd, this will likely be more than getting 2500 tickets to play Massillon Jackson.
You're not looking at the whole picture. Don't forget there's a game against Jackson at PBTS the next year. The question is whether our revenue from a home-and-home against Jackson exceeds our revenue from 2 home games against Walnut Hills, etc. And don't forget - we pay Walnut Hills a hefty sum to come here. We don't have to pay that appearance fee to Jackson.

So, let's see:
- 2 games against Walnut Hills: (13000 tickets sold * $7/ticket) - $10000 appearance fees = $81000
- 2 games against Jackson: 13,000 tickets sold (2500 @ Fife, 10,500 @ PBTS) * $7/ticket = $91,000

Also, will the lack of tickets to these FED away games drive some of the buyers of season tickets away and also for home games against the FED will sales lack after we have beaten a FED team on a consistent basis over the years and they are coming in as an underdog.
We only take about 1500 fans to Cincinnati. Do we lose season ticket sales because of that? And what of that declining attendance in future years? In case you haven't looked, we had the second lowest average attendance in the history of PBTS this year. And you're saying that Walnut Hills will eventually outdraw Perry?

Fact - looking at playoff games with FED(especially North Canton) sales have not been record breaking.
That's not true. Our playoff games against Fed schools have drawn, on average, far more fans than playoff games against other regional foes.

[mike_da_man13]

This post has many examples of the change in culture that must occur to take the program to the next level.

i dont understand you...
Massillon does not need the fed to take us to the next level in football. stuebenville will play us they have a stadium bigger than any in the fed save mck and they are not scared of us. Your going to see this weekend what the federal league is all about when hoover gets taken to the woodshed.

Why do you not ask the kids what they would rather do? i mean its about the kids right? a majority of them do not want to play in the federal league.

before you come back with look where their schedule got them... we had our chance to be their on a good schedule and we proved that we did not deserve to make the playoffs.

[DaveDawg]

Don't forget there's a game against Jackson at PBTS the next year.

Is this a home and home with Jackson?
Could you tell me when this was announced and what week?

[Benchboss1]

Continuing to beg for admittance to a league that doesn't want or need them just makes Massillon's administrators look desperate, and it really belittles their program. They're better than that, imo.


It is really sad that people outside of Massillon actually sees our administration for what they really are. I wonder why the administrators themselves can't see how it makes them look!:argue:

[PurpleArmy]

Build a stadium that holds 12-15000 and Massillon will come. Unlike jackson the tigers football program funds all other sports at Massillon.

I don't think Jackson cares if Massillon doesn't want to play them. If they did, then I'm guessing the Jackson AD would have changed their schedule around to accommodate Massillon's contract request for a week 1 game a couple years ago.

Also, it wold not be financially responsible for Jackson to build a 15,000 seat stadium. Unlike Massillon, Jackson's sports programs don't rely on their football program to fund all our other sports, so a stadium that big wouldn't be necessary. We'd never fill it up anyways, so there's really no point.

[PurpleArmy]

Don't forget there's a game against Jackson at PBTS the next year.

When was this announced? I've read nor heard anything about this. I know that our series with Nordonia is over, but I had not heard that we replaced them with Massillon. Do you have a link to the announcement on this? Also, who did you hear it from?

[Purple Hayes]

When was this announced? I've read nor heard anything about this. I know that our series with Nordonia is over, but I had not heard that we replaced them with Massillon. Do you have a link to the announcement on this? Also, who did you hear it from?


I think OW was just using this as an example when he walked through the projected financial benefits/analysis of joining the league (the fact that there'd be a home and home in a league setting).

I did hear that Jackson had inked Solon for 2008/2009 for a home and home in either Week 1 or Week 2. I haven't confirmed yet. Maybe they are replacing Nordonia.

[PurpleArmy]

I think OW was just using this as an example when he walked through the projected financial benefits/analysis of joining the league (the fact that there'd be a home and home in a league setting).

I did hear that Jackson had inked Solon for 2008/2009 for a home and home in either Week 1 or Week 2. I haven't confirmed yet. Maybe they are replacing Nordonia.

Our series with Nordonia ended this season, so we will have an open week. However, I had heard rumors of us playing Solon as well, so you're probably correct.

[Fats]

Fewer home games does not always mean less revenue. This has been addressed in great depth elsewhere.


You're not looking at the whole picture. Don't forget there's a game against Jackson at PBTS the next year. The question is whether our revenue from a home-and-home against Jackson exceeds our revenue from 2 home games against Walnut Hills, etc. And don't forget - we pay Walnut Hills a hefty sum to come here. We don't have to pay that appearance fee to Jackson.

So, let's see:
- 2 games against Walnut Hills: (13000 tickets sold * $7/ticket) - $10000 appearance fees = $81000
- 2 games against Jackson: 13,000 tickets sold (2500 @ Fife, 10,500 @ PBTS) * $7/ticket = $91,000

We only take about 1500 fans to Cincinnati. Do we lose season ticket sales because of that? And what of that declining attendance in future years? In case you haven't looked, we had the second lowest average attendance in the history of PBTS this year. And you're saying that Walnut Hills will eventually outdraw Perry?


That's not true. Our playoff games against Fed schools have drawn, on average, far more fans than playoff games against other regional foes.

First, ObieWan Thanks for answering, these are questions that I think need to be thought about before Massillon commits to any league FED or not. I am anti-Fed for a few reasons, one being I do not think it will help us financially and two I do not think that the FED has teams that will compete with our program. The Fed will have a team or two that is comparable to Our Tigers but then the talent level drops off.
As to some of your responses.
So, let's see:
- 2 games against Walnut Hills: (13000 tickets sold * $7/ticket) - $10000 appearance fees = $81000
- 2 games against Jackson: 13,000 tickets sold (2500 @ Fife, 10,500 @ PBTS) * $7/ticket = $91,000
For the 2 games against Walnut Hills. I am not sure how much we pay a team to come to Massillon, I do remember us saying that we were giving Moeller to much to play here. It seems that maybe that is something that could be adjusted. Also with the Walnut Hills example remember all the Ticket revenue(99.9% of tickets would be bought at our gate) would come back to our program, also you forget to add in the 50/50 money, and concession earnings that I think would add a few more dollars. Now with the Massillon Jackson example - All of the tickets would not be bought at our gate so the 10,500 gate you estimate not all would go to our bank account. I would think Massillon Jackson would sell around 1500 to 2000 tickets @ $7 would be $10,500 to 14,000 knocked off your revenue estimate. Plus we would lose the revenue from concessions and 50/50 when we played at their place. So I do not see the increase in revenue that FED lovers talk about.

Now for your other answer
We only take about 1500 fans to Cincinnati. Do we lose season ticket sales because of that? And what of that declining attendance in future years? In case you haven't looked, we had the second lowest average attendance in the history of PBTS this year. And you're saying that Walnut Hills will eventually outdraw Perry?
The Cincinnati example, I think relates more to our keeping the Massillon Program in the state and country's eyes. As I said, we have a national reputation and a tradition that these type of games help keep. So attendance may not be a factor in this type of game. Of course, look at the game against the Arizona team, we had pretty good attendance at that game. NO I do not think Walnut Hills will eventually outdraw Perry, but do we need the FED to play Perry. I have no problem have a series with Massillon Perry. But if we play home and home series, I would refer you to my other answer.

Now for the playoff question
That's not true. Our playoff games against Fed schools have drawn, on average, far more fans than playoff games against other regional foes.[/QUOTE
Not sure of figures on this, I will take your word. But, I think you can not use the Mckinley figures in the average. Also, we have had some pretty good attendance figures when we play St. Iggy, Mentor, St. Ed's. Again, I would bring up the North Canton playoff game when most people would agree that they brought a small crowd. Also, Playoff games are a little different then the regular season. I just do not think and I could be wrong, that if GlenOak or Massillon Jackson Or North Canton feels that their team has little chance of winning that the crowd they bring will not fill the visitor's stand.

ObieWan, I really feel this is an important debate and a decision that I and many others will change the direction of our Massillon Tiger Program - some will say for the good and others and I think majority including myself will say that it will Hurt our Tiger Program. GO TIGERS

[LLRose]

i dont understand you...
Massillon does not need the fed to take us to the next level in football. stuebenville will play us they have a stadium bigger than any in the fed save mck and they are not scared of us. Your going to see this weekend what the federal league is all about when hoover gets taken to the woodshed.

Why do you not ask the kids what they would rather do? i mean its about the kids right? a majority of them do not want to play in the federal league.

before you come back with look where their schedule got them... we had our chance to be their on a good schedule and we proved that we did not deserve to make the playoffs.

Ask the kids!

Are you kidding?

Are you serious that you want 14-15-16 year old kids to determine the future of the program?

I have a better question, ask the kids if they would have liked to make the playoffs this year. Do you think the Seniors were content playing an independent schedule and turning their equipment in during October. Ask the kids if they would have liked to host a playoff game at PBTS during their senior year.

I know you hate the coach, but this team would be playing this weekend if it was a member of the Federal League. Massillon would have been the league champions. I assume it would have won both playoff games Hoover won.

Why does Hoover's performance against Brunstucky have any parallel to what the Tigers would do if they were in the league, made the playoffs and played Brunstucky? I read into your comments that you believe Hoover is better than Massillon, I don't hold that belief.

Lastly, I don't know what your definition of success is. My definition of success for the program is to beat Canton week ten, compete for a state championship and win it. The independent schedule has not been a strategy conducive to winning a state championship in 38 years. That is why I believe a culture change must occur. We need to reset the priorities for the program. Sports Illustrated, Toyota Halftime specials and silly movies don't define greatness. State Championships define greatness in my opinion. If you don't make the playoffs, you can't realize one of the most important team goals.

[TigerVic]

Ask the kids!

Are you kidding?

Are you serious that you want 14-15-16 year old kids to determine the future of the program?.

Of course not, but they are part of the population that will be impacted no matter what decision is made. So I'd say they should have a say in it, as well as all "former kids" who played for the Tigers. They are the legacy that joining the Fed will destroy.

I wonder what you'd be saying if the kids all wanted to be in the Fed.

[CarlE]

Unlike Massillon, Jackson's sports programs don't rely on their football program to fund all our other sports, so a stadium that big wouldn't be necessary.

You're right they don't. They rely on conning parents into forking out hundreds of dollars to allow their kids to play sports? Do you consider that a viable alternative? I sure don't.

[LLRose]

Of course not, but they are part of the population that will be impacted no matter what decision is made. So I'd say they should have a say in it, as well as all "former kids" who played for the Tigers. They are the legacy that joining the Fed will destroy.

I wonder what you'd be saying if the kids all wanted to be in the Fed.

If all the kids wanted to be in the fed it wouldn't make any difference to me. The day the kids start making administrative decisions ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm at a loss for words. I can't believe I have to respond to it.

Should the kids negotiate teacher's contracts? I wouldn't let the kids choose the lunch menu let alone the most important administrative sports decision possibly in the schools history.

I think the answer is simple. Adults in the community elect school board members to provide the leadership that is needed to make the best decisions for the community.

We live in a representative republic not a democracy.

[TigerVic]

My post also suggested Tiger Alumni.

The School Board is not elected based on their football knowledge. There needs to be more people than just a school board in the hiring decisions- especially people who know football and people who know TIGER football.

[LLRose]

My post also suggested Tiger Alumni.

The School Board is not elected based on their football knowledge. There needs to be more people than just a school board in the hiring decisions- especially people who know football and people who know TIGER football.

I hope the people voted individuals on the school board that are open to diverse opinions and look to others for their opinion to make the best decision for the community.

I don't understand why you typed "hiring decisions". I thought you were discussing the decision making process into the fed. You still hung up on Tom being the coach?

"Kids" should not be in the decision making process, that is all I was saying.

[TigerVic]

I hope the people voted individuals on the school board that are open to diverse opinions and look to others for their opinion to make the best decision for the community.

I don't understand why you typed "hiring decisions". I thought you were discussing the decision making process into the fed. You still hung up on Tom being the coach?

"Kids" should not be in the decision making process, that is all I was saying.

Actually, I should have said any football decisions. But yes, now that you mention it - football people that KNOW FOOTBALL, not politics, need to be in those hiring decisions too. Otherwise, it's a Lose Lose proposition for the good of the program.

[Purple Hayes]

I guess boring is in the eyes of the beholder.

TigerVic - Is "boring" sitting at home while the playoffs begin in November 3 out of the last 5 years?

[PurpleArmy]

You're right they don't. They rely on conning parents into forking out hundreds of dollars to allow their kids to play sports? Do you consider that a viable alternative? I sure don't.

Jackson playing Massillon would not affect the pay-to-play situation. Jackson finally passing a school levy is the only thing that's going to change pay-to-play. Don't forget that pay-to-play is for all sports- not just football, so Jackson would have to make enough money from playing Massillon to cover ALL the sports for pay-to-play to be ended. Pay-to-play even is in effect for the Jackson band, so that would have to be counted as well.

For example, today is Tag Day for the Jackson band, and the school has band members going door-to-door asking for donations for new uniforms. It would take a lot more money than we would get from playing Massillon to cover things like that. Also, since Massillon doesn't want to play at Fife, Jackson would only get a small portion of gate revenue is we played the Tigers.

Someone told me that Jackson is getting somewhere around 1.2 million from the parents paying for their kids to be in sports right now. How much would Jackson get from the ticket sales if we played Massillon at PBTS?

[CarlE]

Jackson playing Massillon would not affect the pay-to-play situation. Jackson finally passing a school levy is the only thing that's going to change pay-to-play. Don't forget that pay-to-play is for all sports- not just football, so Jackson would have to make enough money from playing Massillon to cover ALL the sports for pay-to-play to be ended. Pay-to-play even is in effect for the Jackson band, so that would have to be counted as well.

For example, today is Tag Day for the Jackson band, and the school has band members going door-to-door asking for donations for new uniforms. It would take a lot more money than we would get from playing Massillon to cover things like that. Also, since Massillon doesn't want to play at Fife, Jackson would only get a small portion of gate revenue is we played the Tigers.

Someone told me that Jackson is getting somewhere around 1.2 million from the parents paying for their kids to be in sports right now. How much would Jackson get from the ticket sales if we played Massillon at PBTS?

Well, certainly not $1.2 million THAT'S for sure!! LOL

[obie7661]

http://www.indeonline.com/printable.php?ID=18246

...Jackson adopted a pay-to-participate plan for school sports and clubs last year as a way to offset the costs of running the programs. The district collected about $440,000 in fees in the 2006-2007 school year; it costs about $1.3 million to run Jackson’s athletic programs....

[hartville tiger]

Jackson playing Massillon would not affect the pay-to-play situation. Jackson finally passing a school levy is the only thing that's going to change pay-to-play. Don't forget that pay-to-play is for all sports- not just football, so Jackson would have to make enough money from playing Massillon to cover ALL the sports for pay-to-play to be ended. Pay-to-play even is in effect for the Jackson band, so that would have to be counted as well.

For example, today is Tag Day for the Jackson band, and the school has band members going door-to-door asking for donations for new uniforms. It would take a lot more money than we would get from playing Massillon to cover things like that. Also, since Massillon doesn't want to play at Fife, Jackson would only get a small portion of gate revenue is we played the Tigers.

Someone told me that Jackson is getting somewhere around 1.2 million from the parents paying for their kids to be in sports right now. How much would Jackson get from the ticket sales if we played Massillon at PBTS?

Just curious how many times has Jackson made the playoffs?

[Purple Hayes]

Just curious how many times has Jackson made the playoffs?

Jackson has been to the playoffs 4 times since 1998, and once prior to that in 1990.

[Al.]

Someone told me that Jackson is getting somewhere around 1.2 million from the parents paying for their kids to be in sports right now. How much would Jackson get from the ticket sales if we played Massillon at PBTS?

Sounds like some fuzzy math to me :scratchchin:

[DaveDawg]

http://img153.exs.cx/img153/3919/sjtf3ey.jpg
Here is a game by game look at how Federal League teams (McKinley, Fitch and Boardman not included) have fared in the OHSAA football playoffs since it began in 1972.
(Teams listed in order of number of wins.)
Uniontown Lake (17 - 15)
15 appearances
1972.........Lost........06 - 42........Akron St. Vincent - St. Mary........state semifinal
1988........WON........14 - 13........Columbus Beechcroft........region semifinal
1988.........Lost........14 - 17........Steubenville........region championship
1990........WON........10 - 07........West Branch........region semifinal
1990.........Lost........07 - 10........Steubenville........region championship
1991........WON........13 - 00........Louisville........region semifinal
1991........WON........25 - 11........Cloumbus Beechcroft........region championship
1991........WON........18 - 07........Steubenville........state semifinal
1991.........Lost........06 - 21........Fostoria........state championship
1993........WON........48 - 33........Louisville........region semifinal
1993........WON........21 - 00........Bellevue........region championship
1993........WON........29 - 07........Chardon........state semifinal
1993.........Lost........00 - 21........St. Mary’s........state championship
1994.........Lost........07 - 25........Rayland Buckeye Local........region semifinal
1996.........Lost........07 - 28........Springfield........region semifinal
1997........WON........12 - 03........Springfield........region semifinal
1997........WON........11 - 06........Akron Buchtel........region championship
1997........WON........14 - 03........Columbus Watterson........state semifinal
1997.........Lost........10 - 36........Defiance........state championship
1998.........Lost........14 - 28........East Liverpool........region semifinal
1999........WON........35 - 00........Columbus Beechcroft........region quarterfinal
1999........WON........20 - 07........Dover........region semifinal
1999........WON........42 - 14........Lewis Center Olentangy........region championship
1999.........Lost........10 - 14........Walsh Jesuit........state semifinal
2002.........Lost........14 - 29........Youngstown Chaney........region quarterfinal
2003.........Lost........14 - 21........Columbus Brookhaven........region quarterfinal
2004........WON........27 - 14........Carrollton........region quarterfinal
2004........WON........24 - 00........Louisville........region semifinal
2004.........Lost........14 - 35........Columbus Brookhaven........region championship
2006........WON........16 - 13........Columbus Marion - Franklin........region quarterfinal
2006.........Lost........07 - 17........Columbus Bishop Waterson........region semifinal
2007.........Lost........21 - 34........Louisville........region quarterfinal


North Canton Hoover (11 - 14)
15 appearances
1984........WON........40 - 06........Lorain Admiral King........region championship
1984........WON........30 - 00........Mayfield........state semifinal
1984.........Lost........14 - 17........Toledo St. Francis Desales........state championship
1986........WON........34 - 11........Beloit West Branch........region semifinal
1986........WON........24 - 00........Youngstown South........region championship
1986.........Lost........24 - 27........(OT) Willoughby South........state semifinal
1987.........Lost........17 - 21........Brunswick........region semifinal
1988.........Lost........14 - 17........Steubenville........region semifinal
1989........WON........36 - 08........Columbus Franklin Heights........region semifinal
1989.........Lost........31 - 37........(2OT) Steubenville........region championship
1995.........Lost........14 - 20........Walsh Jesuit........region semifinal
1997.........Lost........08 - 40........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
1998.........Lost........33 - 34........Marion Harding........region semifinal
1999.........Lost........06 - 07........Canton McKinley........region quarterfinal
2000........WON........14 - 07........Jackson........region quarterfinal
2000.........Lost........27 - 28........(OT) Perry........region semifinal
2001........WON........38 - 07........Mansfield Senior........region quarterfinal
2001........WON........10 - 09........Jackson........region semifinal
2001.........Lost........07 - 27........Massillon Washington........region championship
2002.........Lost........00 - 31........Massillon Washington........region quarterfinal
2003........WON........49 - 00........Hudson........ region quarterfinal
2003.........Lost........33 - 45........Wadsworth........region semifinal
2005.........Lost........14 - 45........Massillon Washington........region quarterfinal
2007........WON........40 - 33........(5 OT) Toledo St. John’s Jesuit........region quarterfinal
2007........WON........00 - 00........(OT) Macedonia Nordonia........region quarterfinal
2007........????........00 - 00........Brunswick........region championship


Massillon Perry (6 - 5)
5 appearances
1992.........Lost........06 - 27........Austintown Fitch........region semifinal
1999........WON........23 - 06........Massillon Washington........region quarterfinal
1999........WON........07 - 00........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
1999.........Lost........14 - 16........Pickerington........region championship
2000........WON........25 - 12........Toledo Whitmer........region quarterfinal
2000........WON........28 - 27........(OT) North Canton Hoover........region semifinal
2000........WON........38 - 21........Marion Harding........region championship
2000.........Lost........07 - 28........Solon........state semifinal
2002........WON........13 - 09........Dublin Scioto........region quarterfinal
2002.........Lost........21 - 23........Massillon Washington........region semifinal
2006.........Lost........20 - 41........Massillon Washington........region quarterfinal


Canton GlenOak (1 - 4)
4 appearances
1985.........Lost........07 - 14........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
2000.........Lost........13 - 21........Mansfield Senior........region quarterfinal
2004........WON........25 - 07........Toledo St. Francis deSales........region quarterfinal
2004.........Lost........07 - 17........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
2007.........Lost........25 - 49........Brunswick........region quarterfinal


Massillon Jackson (1 - 5)
5 appearances
1990.........Lost........15 - 21........Massillon Washington........region semifinal
1998.........Lost........13 - 17........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
2000.........Lost........07 - 14........North Canton Hoover........region quarterfinal
2001........WON........17 - 14........Cuyahoga Falls........region quarterfinal
2001.........Lost........09 - 10........North Canton Hoover........region semifinal
2004.........Lost........24 - 28........Toledo Whitmer........region quarterfinal

[Fats]

Obie Wan, recently I posted about reasons not to join a league FED or not unless some questions are answered. You posted a response to my questions and I then responded to them. I would like to hear your responses to my post. This question of joining a league is so important to our program, and we need to know answers and to look into this matter more than just accepting the Coach and Admin. think it is a good idea and our willing to take out the trash.

[MR EMPTY PANTS]

http://img153.exs.cx/img153/3919/sjtf3ey.jpg
Here is a game by game look at how Federal League teams (McKinley, Fitch and Boardman not included) have fared in the OHSAA football playoffs since it began in 1972.
(Teams listed in order of number of wins.)
Uniontown Lake (17 - 15)
15 appearances
1972.........Lost........06 - 42........Akron St. Vincent - St. Mary........state semifinal
1988........WON........14 - 13........Columbus Beechcroft........region semifinal
1988.........Lost........14 - 17........Steubenville........region championship
1990........WON........10 - 07........West Branch........region semifinal
1990.........Lost........07 - 10........Steubenville........region championship
1991........WON........13 - 00........Louisville........region semifinal
1991........WON........25 - 11........Cloumbus Beechcroft........region championship
1991........WON........18 - 07........Steubenville........state semifinal
1991.........Lost........06 - 21........Fostoria........state championship
1993........WON........48 - 33........Louisville........region semifinal
1993........WON........21 - 00........Bellevue........region championship
1993........WON........29 - 07........Chardon........state semifinal
1993.........Lost........00 - 21........St. Mary’s........state championship
1994.........Lost........07 - 25........Rayland Buckeye Local........region semifinal
1996.........Lost........07 - 28........Springfield........region semifinal
1997........WON........12 - 03........Springfield........region semifinal
1997........WON........11 - 06........Akron Buchtel........region championship
1997........WON........14 - 03........Columbus Watterson........state semifinal
1997.........Lost........10 - 36........Defiance........state championship
1998.........Lost........14 - 28........East Liverpool........region semifinal
1999........WON........35 - 00........Columbus Beechcroft........region quarterfinal
1999........WON........20 - 07........Dover........region semifinal
1999........WON........42 - 14........Lewis Center Olentangy........region championship
1999.........Lost........10 - 14........Walsh Jesuit........state semifinal
2002.........Lost........14 - 29........Youngstown Chaney........region quarterfinal
2003.........Lost........14 - 21........Columbus Brookhaven........region quarterfinal
2004........WON........27 - 14........Carrollton........region quarterfinal
2004........WON........24 - 00........Louisville........region semifinal
2004.........Lost........14 - 35........Columbus Brookhaven........region championship
2006........WON........16 - 13........Columbus Marion - Franklin........region quarterfinal
2006.........Lost........07 - 17........Columbus Bishop Waterson........region semifinal
2007.........Lost........21 - 34........Louisville........region quarterfinal


North Canton Hoover (11 - 14)
15 appearances
1984........WON........40 - 06........Lorain Admiral King........region championship
1984........WON........30 - 00........Mayfield........state semifinal
1984.........Lost........14 - 17........Toledo St. Francis Desales........state championship
1986........WON........34 - 11........Beloit West Branch........region semifinal
1986........WON........24 - 00........Youngstown South........region championship
1986.........Lost........24 - 27........(OT) Willoughby South........state semifinal
1987.........Lost........17 - 21........Brunswick........region semifinal
1988.........Lost........14 - 17........Steubenville........region semifinal
1989........WON........36 - 08........Columbus Franklin Heights........region semifinal
1989.........Lost........31 - 37........(2OT) Steubenville........region championship
1995.........Lost........14 - 20........Walsh Jesuit........region semifinal
1997.........Lost........08 - 40........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
1998.........Lost........33 - 34........Marion Harding........region semifinal
1999.........Lost........06 - 07........Canton McKinley........region quarterfinal
2000........WON........14 - 07........Jackson........region quarterfinal
2000.........Lost........27 - 28........(OT) Perry........region semifinal
2001........WON........38 - 07........Mansfield Senior........region quarterfinal
2001........WON........10 - 09........Jackson........region semifinal
2001.........Lost........07 - 27........Massillon Washington........region championship
2002.........Lost........00 - 31........Massillon Washington........region quarterfinal
2003........WON........49 - 00........Hudson........ region quarterfinal
2003.........Lost........33 - 45........Wadsworth........region semifinal
2005.........Lost........14 - 45........Massillon Washington........region quarterfinal
2007........WON........40 - 33........(5 OT) Toledo St. John’s Jesuit........region quarterfinal
2007........WON........00 - 00........(OT) Macedonia Nordonia........region quarterfinal
2007........????........00 - 00........Brunswick........region championship


Massillon Perry (6 - 5)
5 appearances
1992.........Lost........06 - 27........Austintown Fitch........region semifinal
1999........WON........23 - 06........Massillon Washington........region quarterfinal
1999........WON........07 - 00........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
1999.........Lost........14 - 16........Pickerington........region championship
2000........WON........25 - 12........Toledo Whitmer........region quarterfinal
2000........WON........28 - 27........(OT) North Canton Hoover........region semifinal
2000........WON........38 - 21........Marion Harding........region championship
2000.........Lost........07 - 28........Solon........state semifinal
2002........WON........13 - 09........Dublin Scioto........region quarterfinal
2002.........Lost........21 - 23........Massillon Washington........region semifinal
2006.........Lost........20 - 41........Massillon Washington........region quarterfinal


Canton GlenOak (1 - 4)
4 appearances
1985.........Lost........07 - 14........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
2000.........Lost........13 - 21........Mansfield Senior........region quarterfinal
2004........WON........25 - 07........Toledo St. Francis deSales........region quarterfinal
2004.........Lost........07 - 17........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
2007.........Lost........25 - 49........Brunswick........region quarterfinal


Massillon Jackson (1 - 5)
5 appearances
1990.........Lost........15 - 21........Massillon Washington........region semifinal
1998.........Lost........13 - 17........Canton McKinley........region semifinal
2000.........Lost........07 - 14........North Canton Hoover........region quarterfinal
2001........WON........17 - 14........Cuyahoga Falls........region quarterfinal
2001.........Lost........09 - 10........North Canton Hoover........region semifinal
2004.........Lost........24 - 28........Toledo Whitmer........region quarterfinal


from these numbers it looks like uniontown lake would be a better game for massillon than the division 1 schools.