IT'S BACK!! The one and only FED thread, (others will be deleted)...

[Benchboss1]

That being said, what makes you think that they would cow tow to a bunch of demands from Massillon (guaranteed amount of seats at away games (half the stadium capacity), games played at a neutral site, 10% of concession money from away games, a home-home-away deal, etc.)? I'm not being mean, but I doubt the league board is going to change the entire format and rules around just to make Massillon happy when they seem that they don't really want them to even join in the first place. They didn't make any changes like you mentioned when McKinley joined, so why would they do it for Massillon?

First of all, I don't agree with all of these demands, like the 10% of concession money, or even the home-home-away set up, but I do think that IF our administration had any kind of "set" (which by the way we all know they don't, especially after the take out the trash comment) they would insist on a certain amount of tickets for each away game and if that demand can't be met, then the game is moved to a neutral site.
Now, to make it as fair as possible to the league schools, whatever the number of tickets we demand, we should be responsible for buying and if we do not sell that many, we eat the rest. That puts the onus on us fans to buy all of the tickets that we say we should get.

Now, onto your comment that the Federal League did not make any changes when McKinley joined, I beg to differ with you on that.
Do you actually believe that the league basketball schedule changed from a home and home with EVERY school to playing each team once and then have a tournament as being coincidental? There is no way that McKinley wanted to weaken their basketball schedule by playing each of the other schools twice. They wanted to continue playing as many of the top teams in the state as they possibly could. By insisting on the new format, they are guaranteed to only play the best of the other schools twice, not all of them.

[Benchboss1]

All sports except football, which is rather fair in my opinion. TigerDon is WAY smarter than me so I'm sure not going to dispute him.


Which I could easily agree with. It just was stated in such a way that it seemed to mean as a football league. As a football league, it is COMPETITIVE. Competitive does NOT always mean quality.

[Seeker]

Please remember what obiefan said in the first post on this thread:

...As always, the official massillonproud forum rules apply. However, there are at least a couple more rules.

In no way will I tolerate any "downright bashing" of anyone in the MCS, or it's administration...

...Nor will I tolerate any mean spirited posts.

There's only one day left on this thread, please control yourselves and don't let your emotions on this subject cost you your posting privileges.

Thank you.

[PurpleArmy]

First of all, I don't agree with all of these demands, like the 10% of concession money, or even the home-home-away set up, but I do think that IF our administration had any kind of "set" (which by the way we all know they don't, especially after the take out the trash comment) they would insist on a certain amount of tickets for each away game and if that demand can't be met, then the game is moved to a neutral site.



Yes, but what would stop Massillon from demanding more tickets than they know that each schools' visitors' side holds, just so every one of Massillon's away games is at a "neutral" site?

And where would that neutral site be? Fawcett? That would be tricky to work out, especially since two different schools call Fawcett their home field and on some weekends have it in use on Friday AND Saturday nights.

I don't feel that it's fair at all to deny the opposing teams a home field game just because Massillon may have a lot of fans that want seats. Extra seating could be brought in if necessary, (which I know Jackson has done for McKinley) but I doubt all the other FL schools would build more bleachers just for one game every other year. It's not very logical, or financially responsible.

These are some of the reasons that I think Massillon should look into maybe forming their own league or joining a league other than the Federal League. It just doesn't seem to be a good fit for the league or for Massillon.

[GrowlingTiger87]

My biggest beefs stand in the letter I wrote to the editor...of the local paper. I think the local paper reps are trying to be shills for the administration that wants desperately in this league for whatever reason. And also to the editors that seem to think that "giving the team a league title to shoot for" would make up for losing even in the playoffs.

[TigerVic]

We don't want to be Fed! We want to be hungry- Eye of the Tiger!!!

Good-Bye, Fed Thread.

[Benchboss1]

Yes, but what would stop Massillon from demanding more tickets than they know that each schools' visitors' side holds, just so every one of Massillon's away games is at a "neutral" site?




This speaks volumes about how you feel about Massillon. Do you really believe that our administration would ask for m ore tickets than they knew that we could/would sell just to have the game at a neutral site? We have already proven that we will play away games, we just would like to have all of our fans have the chance to see the game.
In my suggestion, I was thinking more along the lines of a constant number like 3,000-3,500 tickets, for every stadium.

[Purple Hayes]

In todays Independent, Pete Carrol said it best.
He said "That's what we're here for. We're here to do it better than anybody has ever done it before." That's the single thought. That's what drives us."
He was speaking of being ranked number one and EXPECTING to win the national championship this season.

Nowhere did he mention their goal was to win the Pac 10 championship or to make a BCS bowl game. They shoot for the top. Is there any wonder why USC has the best college football program the last 5 years?

Couple observations: 1) They are still in a LEAGUE, it doesn't blunt their expectations 2) They've won TITLES within the last 5 years, so playing the same opponents year after year hasn't prevented them from winning the big one.

[DAWGH8R]

If /when we are accepted into the Federal League, will that change the perception of Massillon by the member schools ????

[obie 66]

Our season ticket base varies from year to year between 4,200 and 4,600. 3,00-3,500 tickets will upset a lot of fans left out?:thumbsup:

[longtimefirsttime]

If /when we are accepted into the Federal League, will that change the perception of Massillon by the member schools ????

C'mon, you already know the answer to that. McKinley still gets no respect, except when they're mentioned to give the league more credibility. It will be the same, if not worse, for Massillon.

[MTown]

Ok, it's Wednesday...

DIE FED THREAD!

[Seeker]

Ok, it's Wednesday...

DIE FED THREAD!

Soon, soon...

[MTown]

NOW!

It's game week....they do their thing.

We do ours.

[Seeker]

NOW!

It's game week....they do their thing.

We do ours.

Geez, gettin' a little bossy aren't we?


:gogogo:

[MRR55]

What would you rather have? I think one or the other needs to happen. Just my opinion.

[Obie Wan]

These are two completely different situations. We have some degree of control over league membership. We likely have none over division classification.

BTW, congrats on beating the dead horse.

[xtiger]

Neither. But if I had to make an actual choice, it would be going D2. We can still schedule and play D1 schools.

[CarlE]

Rise UP, dead horse of the world. Rise UP!!:bomb:

[MRR55]

OW, im fairly new to this site, excuse me for beating your dead horse.

[massillon catholic]

What would you rather have? I think one or the other needs to happen. Just my opinion.


Being in the Fed will be like being in D2

[hartville tiger]

join the league and the football program will lose money not to mention their large fan base.

[hitman]

Neither. But if I had to make an actual choice, it would be going D2. We can still schedule and play D1 schools.

Yea and still not get in the playoffs!!!!!

[Spize]

D2, because it would have us where we belong based on size of schools for the rest of the state. We would have no real control over that.

The FED is us saying that we can not compete and need to lower our competition level.

That is not the case. For instance, this year we were not far from the D1/D2 boarderline and we lost to one of the top 3 in D1, size-wise, by only 4 points. In my book, I would say we are able to compete in D1, and would be fine in d2 if the OHSAA determines that we belong there based on size.

There would be no shame in being D2 if we ever become a d2 school. That is the difference.

[TigerSupport]

D2, because it would have us where we belong based on size of schools for the rest of the state. We would have no real control over that.

The FED is us saying that we can not compete and need to lower our competition level.

That is not the case. For instance, this year we were not far from the D1/D2 boarderline and we lost to one of the top 3 in D1, size-wise, by only 4 points. In my book, I would say we are able to compete in D1, and would be fine in d2 if the OHSAA determines that we belong there based on size.

There would be no shame in being D2 if we ever become a d2 school. That is the difference.


BOTH.

Glenoak makes the playoffs at 6-4....we don't. They didn't play Solon, Middletown, Iggy, Warren, Parma, and Mentor. HMMMMMMM.......

[Al.]

BOTH.

Glenoak makes the playoffs at 6-4....we don't. They didn't play Solon, Middletown, Iggy, Warren, Parma, and Mentor. HMMMMMMM.......

And they had a 3-4 win/loss record in the Fed :doh:

[tiger74]

We made the playoffs at 6-4 last year. The thing this year was we didn't beat a school like the arizona team we beat last year. Had we beat mentor or solon we make the playoffs. If the state says we are div 2 then that is were we will play. We had a good schedule not to hard and not to easy. When you have turmoil/shitty playcalling then you end up were we were. So I say why do we keep up this fed talk when they flat said NO!!!! The teams in other divisions didn't like the way it was going to be set up so they tabled it for now. We would do very well against the fed if we were in it.

[Tiger54]

We made the playoffs at 6-4 last year. The thing this year was we didn't beat a school like the arizona team we beat last year. Had we beat mentor or solon we make the playoffs. If the state says we are div 2 then that is were we will play. We had a good schedule not to hard and not to easy. When you have turmoil/shitty playcalling then you end up were we were. So I say why do we keep up this fed talk when they flat said NO!!!! The teams in other divisions didn't like the way it was going to be set up so they tabled it for now. We would do very well against the fed if we were in it.
And. . . . . . . we don't want to be in it. That is another argument against TS, he mouthed the malarkey that our admin put out about the Federal League. They seem to forget that the many season ticket holders are the people who have maintained this program throughout the years, and then you are going to slap them in the face by forcing something that the big majority do not want. We do not WANT to be in the Federal League where we would have to fight for tickets during half of the season to see games in the Jackson, Perry, GO, NC, Lake stadiums. They just don't get it. And we don't want to see games against those schools every year---where those schools look down on our kids and on the Massillon community in general. We don't need or want it! Let the AD earn his money by finding good teams for us to schedule. And let the football coach earn his great salary by preparing our team to play those opponents. Maybe you can explain what the football coach does during the rest of the season when he doesn't have to worry about AD duties any longer.

[longtimefirsttime]

I don't like the prospect of either of these options. But both are out of my control. I'd support the Tigers regardless.

[Mr.Deedee]

longtimefirsttime--

I agree. I'd support them if they played Beallsville (look it up on the map). I honestly don't understand the logic(?) of some of the posters on here. They say they are Tigers till the end, but as soon as someone makes mention of the Feds, they talk about never attending anymore games and how we would lose a huge fan base. Is that support?? Judging by the attendance at our away games this year, maybe the idea of smaller Fed stadiums would be a moot point. Anyway, that would just make my chance of getting tickets even better if they stayed away.

[RRanger]

And. . . . . . . we don't want to be in it. That is another argument against TS, he mouthed the malarkey that our admin put out about the Federal League. They seem to forget that the many season ticket holders are the people who have maintained this program throughout the years, and then you are going to slap them in the face by forcing something that the big majority do not want. We do not WANT to be in the Federal League where we would have to fight for tickets during half of the season to see games in the Jackson, Perry, GO, NC, Lake stadiums. They just don't get it. And we don't want to see games against those schools every year---where those schools look down on our kids and on the Massillon community in general. We don't need or want it! Let the AD earn his money by finding good teams for us to schedule. And let the football coach earn his great salary by preparing our team to play those opponents. Maybe you can explain what the football coach does during the rest of the season when he doesn't have to worry about AD duties any longer.
speak for yourself, i think there is two fed team's in the playoff maybe 3or4

[Fats]

longtimefirsttime--

I agree. I'd support them if they played Beallsville (look it up on the map). I honestly don't understand the logic(?) of some of the posters on here. They say they are Tigers till the end, but as soon as someone makes mention of the Feds, they talk about never attending anymore games and how we would lose a huge fan base. Is that support?? Judging by the attendance at our away games this year, maybe the idea of smaller Fed stadiums would be a moot point. Anyway, that would just make my chance of getting tickets even better if they stayed away.

First, IMO it would hurt the Tiger Program if we joined the FED. Many reasons that I and others have posted in the past. As for not going to games if we join the FEd, I think that would be a small minority. The reason people would NOT go to the games is BECause we would only get tickets for 2000 to 2500 fans, that LEAVES out half of our Season Ticket holders and would have our fans standing in line to see us play a FED team.
As for our away games, alot of Tiger Faithful travel to those games and WHY is that, Because they are games usually with traditional opponent or with a powerhouse team that will give OUR FANS a chance to see a GREAT High SChool football game. I just do not think watching the Tigers play Massillon Jackson is the same as us playing against Iggy or Mentor.
GO TIGERS

[shortbev]

neither one...to me it would be like admitting that the Tiger program is no longer good enough...to be on top...to win a championship against whomever we come up against...it would be like admitting defeat before we even take the field of play


it some ways it would be like what they have done in other areas of academics...they keep lowering the bar / expectations to get higher test scores...

has anyone ever heard of "self-fulfilling prophecy"?...if we tell ourselves enough that we aren't big enough...don't have a good enough team to win our division...to win as tiger teams in the past...it becomes part of the fiber of the players/coaches/ fans...and we will live down to those expectations

[obie2000]

What would you rather have? I think one or the other needs to happen. Just my opinion.


What dead horse???? He didnt even mention one!

[Purple Hayes]

neither one...to me it would be like admitting that the Tiger program is no longer good enough...to be on top...to win a championship against whomever we come up against

Isn't that totally delusional, given that Massillon is 0 for 35 in the playoff format (and this is not mentioned to invalidate what they did 1970 and prior)?

[Purple Hayes]

For instance, this year we were not far from the D1/D2 boarderline and we lost to one of the top 3 in D1, size-wise, by only 4 points.

BFD...you still lost and this isn't horseshoes. Also, it took you OT to beat a team that was beaten pretty handily by Perry, Hoover and Lake and even lowly Jackson beat them, for pete's sake.

[Spize]

BOTH.

Glenoak makes the playoffs at 6-4....we don't. They didn't play Solon, Middletown, Iggy, Warren, Parma, and Mentor. HMMMMMMM.......

Get real. Take a look at their points total. Them being in the playoffs is a complete fluke. 18.5 does not get you into the playoffs any year or any region but this year, this region. So many things had to happen and so many upsets, not to mention this is probably the worst d1 region ever.

Partner that with our late season opponents having the worst records combined that we have had of opponents in the playoff era ever.

It is like Jupiter, Neptune, Mars, and Saturn all aligning, during a solar eclipse. It may happen, but the likelyhood is so minute that if it does happen, as it did, it will probably only be once.

It says nothing about the FED and playoffs other than they would only get in at 6-4 like this if it is a very rare fluke year.

For example, last year they would have been in 10th with those points.

Hoover was that FED team last year, except they were 7-3 with 19.2530 and out of the playoffs.

2005 they would have been 11th...

Jackson was that FED team that year...

12th place 7-3 Massillon Jackson 18.0000

Fact is that the FED will not increase attendance, that has been proven by playoff games against FED teams and simple mathmatics of the away trip to tiny FED stadiums where sellouts would be lower attendance than the Western Hills game this year. The FED teams would not provide a better chance at points than our current schedule most years. It would not financially benefit us. Winning the FED would be as meaningless to our players as it is to Mckinley's. There is no upside other than we get to play a few of the local teams that we should be playing anyhow.

I don't look forward to the season ticket holder lottery for tickets to week 6 at Fife Stadium in Jackson, or Week 9 at Lake, or Week 5 at Hoover.

Perry Stadium would barely hold our season ticket holders when they were forced by OHSAA to split the tickets 50/50 per the total stadium capacity. Imagine when we only get their away side (about 40% of what we got for the playoff game).

Given that for us to be invited to be in the FED would likely mean Fitch and Boardman left, what stadium fits enough fans that it is more profitable for our program than an extra home game or 2? Which one is worth telling our loyal season ticket holders that easy scheduling for 7 games a year is worth more than them.

????

[MR EMPTY PANTS]

Isn't that totally delusional, given that Massillon is 0 for 35 in the playoff format (and this is not mentioned to invalidate what they did 1970 and prior)?

great point, i agree 100%

[Spize]

BFD...you still lost and this isn't horseshoes. Also, it took you OT to beat a team that was beaten pretty handily by Perry, Hoover and Lake and even lowly Jackson beat them, for pete's sake.


Wow, look into the Massillon/Mckinley game over history and make that stupid statement again.

I know we don't get points or the like for a loss, however the point was that we are competitive to the tune of BARELY losing to a top D1 school in size and rank and that some people think we be in a division that we are not.

[MR EMPTY PANTS]

BFD...you still lost and this isn't horseshoes. Also, it took you OT to beat a team that was beaten pretty handily by Perry, Hoover and Lake and even lowly Jackson beat them, for pete's sake.

another winning comment, this only validates what i`ve been saying for 2 years.

[Spize]

another winning comment, this only validates what i`ve been saying for 2 years.

What have you been saying for 2 years? That we need to play inferior competition and collect meaningless league titles? Or are you saying we decide to be in a different division even though that decision isn't ours to make and us deciding to be in that division wouldn't put us there... Please, clarify.

[Purple Hayes]

Wow, look into the Massillon/Mckinley game over history and make that stupid statement again.

I know we don't get points or the like for a loss, however the point was that we are competitive to the tune of BARELY losing to a top D1 school in size and rank and that some people think we be in a division that we are not.


No kidding...I understand it's a rivalry, anything can happen, throw the records out the window, blah, blah, blah. Bottom line is those were the two worst Massillon and McK teams I've ever seen on the same field, save for maybe 2003 (?).

Using "History" as the guide as you suggest, why are you adamant about replacing a coach with a 3-1 record against the biggest rival (which is clearly better than Massillon "historically" does)?

[MR EMPTY PANTS]

What have you been saying for 2 years? That we need to play inferior competition and collect meaningless league titles? Or are you saying we decide to be in a different division even though that decision isn't ours to make and us deciding to be in that division wouldn't put us there... Please, clarify.

i`ve been saying for 2 years that division 2 is the way to go. year in a year we cannot compete in div 1 and those of you think we can are dreaming. our numbers shrink every year. how can you compete will iggy`s numbers. it`s like briner`s trying to compete with walgreen`s. STUEBENVILLE should be the model massillon should be soaring for and stop living off of pre1970 glory that no longer exists.

[Obie Wan]

Fact is that the FED will not increase attendance, that has been proven by playoff games against FED teams and simple mathmatics of the away trip to tiny FED stadiums where sellouts would be lower attendance than the Western Hills game this year.
Attendance at the last 6 playoff games against Fed schools that aren't McKinley:
2006 Perry: 8000
2005 Hoover: 8954
2002 Hoover: 8300
2002 Perry: 17,000
2001 Hoover: 17,000
1999 Perry: 12,250

That's an average of 12,584. That is over 60% more that our average attendance this year. I'm not really sure how that indicates smaller crowds in the future.

The attendance at this year's game against Walnut Hills was 6477. That would sell out, at most, one Fed stadium.

[Spize]

No kidding...I understand it's a rivalry, anything can happen, throw the records out the window, blah, blah, blah. Bottom line is those were the two worst Massillon and McK teams I've ever seen on the same field, save for maybe 2003 (?).

Using "History" as the guide as you suggest, why are you adamant about replacing a coach with a 3-1 record against the biggest rival (which is clearly better than Massillon "historically" does)?

Using "History" as a guide, any Massillon coach that only beat one team with a winning record, and a D5 team at that, would have their job performance questioned regardless of week 10.

Besides, what does Stacy's job have to do with the FED or D2?

Frankly, I think all this talk is silly The FED will not accept us anyhow, and we have no real control over what division we play in.

[Spize]

Attendance at the last 6 playoff games against Fed schools:
2006 Perry: 8000
2005 Hoover: 8954
2002 Hoover: 8300
2002 Perry: 17,000
2001 Hoover: 17,000
1999 Perry: 12,250

That's an average of 12,584. That is over 60% more that our average attendance this year. I'm not really sure how that indicates smaller crowds in the future.

The attendance at this year's game against Walnut Hills was 6477. That would sell out, at most, one Fed stadium.

That list is even more telling when you do it this way.

1999 Perry: 12,250
2001 Hoover: 17,000
2002 Perry: 17,000
2002 Hoover: 8300
2005 Hoover: 8954
2006 Perry: 8000

Looks like the novelty is already wearing off... and that is in 6 PLAYOFF GAMES

I repeat, this is a list of playoff FED teams

Imagine how many fans are going to come out to watch the FED teams that are not playoff caliber teams... or better yet, the lower half of the FED.

How about when they know their team is going to be blown out by us?

[Obie Wan]

That list is even more telling when you do it this way.

1999 Perry: 12,250
2001 Hoover: 17,000
2002 Perry: 17,000
2002 Hoover: 8300
2005 Hoover: 8954
2006 Perry: 8000

Looks like the novelty is already wearing off... and that is in 6 PLAYOFF GAMES
Or it might look like 2 of the last 3 games have sold out. Most people wouldn't conclude that sold out stadiums indicate a lack of interest.

Wonderful thing about the commutative property, though: the numbers add up the same in any order. And in any order, the last games we've played against Fed teams have far outdrawn other opponents.

Imagine how many fans are going to come out to watch the FED teams that are not playoff caliber teams... or better yet, the lower half of the FED.
You have to use imagination, because there aren't sufficient data points that allow for a reasonable extrapolation. However, the evidence that does exist tends to support increased attendance against Fed schools.

How about when they know their team is going to be blown out by us?
Do Massillon fans stay home from the Iggy game?

[Spize]

Or it might look like 2 of the last 3 games have sold out. Most people wouldn't conclude that sold out stadiums indicate a lack of interest.

Wonderful thing about the commutative property, though: the numbers add up the same in any order. And in any order, the last games we've played against Fed teams have far outdrawn other opponents.


You have to use imagination, because there aren't sufficient data points that allow for a reasonable extrapolation. However, the evidence that does exist tends to support increased attendance against Fed schools.


Do Massillon fans stay home from the Iggy game?

See also Mckinley games in the FED.

Hell, Perry/Mck didn't even come close.


As far as us traveling to Iggy... FED FANS ARE NOT MASSILLON FANS,

How many FED fans travel to Fitch and Boardman?

[man2man]

Massillon's stated goal is to join the Fed. The administration will do whatever they can to join, even "take out the trash".

D2 is a function of popualtion decline.

Both are inevitable.

[Obie Wan]

See also Mckinley games in the FED.

Hell, Perry/Mck didn't even come close.


As far as us traveling to Iggy... FED FANS ARE NOT MASSILLON FANS,
It would seem that you are arguing that Fed games against McKinley are an accurate predictor of Massillon attendance AND that there is no connection between Fed attendance and Massillon attendance. Those two positions would seem to be in direct opposition. :scratchchin:

[tigerbill]

Who IS this person. He knows all about Tiger football. He seems to know everything and is a good friend of Stacy as well as being a war hero. We should be thankful to be blessed by his presence and insight.

I sure do enjoy reading his posts.

Tigerbill

[man2man]

I think it stands to reason that when we join the Fed, attendance will increase, at least initially, as people wil want to come out and see the "new" team in the conference.

[Spize]

It would seem that you are arguing that Fed games against McKinley are an accurate predictor of Massillon attendance AND that there is no connection between Fed attendance and Massillon attendance. Those two positions would seem to be in direct opposition. :scratchchin:

Far from it. I only mentioned FED teams, which Mck is one. However Mck is a recent FED addition, and we already play them (about what, 116 times now) so I think we have a good read on their attendance, not to mention Mck would have no effect on a change in attendance by us joining the FED for the same reason.

What I am stating is that Mck has not seen an increase in attendance or a financial windfall (or benefit for that matter) since joining the FED. Of all the FED additions over the years Mck would be the most like us, and it has had no benefit for them.

Rethink you post, it makes no sense. I was stating that Massillon fans traveling to Ignatius and FED fans traveling to Massillon for a predictable loss are not comparable because the fanbase is completely different. For example, which FED team would have sold as many tickets to the Cincinnati games we played in in 05 and 06?

If the FED is such an attendance draw, why is it that, even though most FED teams don't have long term contracts for their non-conference games week 1-3, the Herbie isn't banging down their door to play in that event? Only Mck, and like I said you can't figure them in a change in attendance for us due to the fact that we already play them.

FED schools don't sell out each other's stadiums. Where is this logic that if they don't show up to games now that they will suddenly show up when they play at PBTS to make up for the deficit of playing in a FED stadium..

The fact is the only increase would be for FED schools playing Massillon at their FED stadium. That is because Massillon fans, in most FED stadiums the season ticket holders would easily sell out Massillon's allotment, would buy more seats than the FED team we replaced.



Anyhow, like I said earlier it doesn't really matter. All this talk about the admin wanting to apply does not change anything, they would reject our application anyhow.

[Obie Wan]

Far from it. I only mentioned FED teams, which Mck is one. However Mck is a recent FED addition, and we already play them (about what, 116 times now) so I think we have a good read on their attendance, not to mention Mck would have no effect on a change in attendance by us joining the FED for the same reason.
Which would explain why I didn't include the 2005 playoff game against McKinley.

Although it should be noted that it would provide an interesting extrapolation as well: it indicates that postseason games draw less than regular season games. This, in turn, would imply league games against Fed schools would draw even larger crowds.

What I am stating is that Mck has not seen an increase in attendance or a financial windfall (or benefit for that matter) since joining the FED. Of all the FED additions over the years Mck would be the most like us, and it has had no benefit for them.
Do you have the attendance figures to support this?

Rethink you post, it makes no sense. I was stating that Massillon fans traveling to Ignatius and FED fans traveling to Massillon for a predictable loss are not comparable because the fanbase is completely different. For example, which FED team would have sold as many tickets to the Cincinnati games we played in in 05 and 06?
That's not relevant. What is relevant is this: would Massillon take more fans to Cincinnati or Jackson?

Where is this logic that if they don't show up to games now that they will suddenly show up when they play at PBTS to make up for the deficit of playing in a FED stadium.
Where is the logic that says they will bring fewer fans than Mentor, Solon, Ursuline, Buchtel, Western Hills, etc.?

Let's make this simple: are you arguing that we would have had a lower average home attendance this year if we had played a Fed slate?

The fact is the only increase would be for FED schools playing Massillon at their FED stadium. That is because Massillon fans, in most FED stadiums the season ticket holders would easily sell out Massillon's allotment, would buy more seats than the FED team we replaced.
That's not a fact - it's an assertion. And it's not one that's germane to the argument, at that. What is germane is determining the schedule that will have the greatest draw. There's simply no way that anyone can assert that 1,500 fans in Cincinnati indicates greater attendance than 3,000 fans at Hoover.

And if Hoover doesn't sell all of their tickets, surely Massillon fans would buy what's left. Which means we would have even more fans at the game. How is that bad? What if Hoover does sell all their tickets? Would that not then indicate that they would bring more fans to PBTS? Certainly more than the paltry few hundred that visiting teams bring now? Is greater attendance at home games a bad thing too?

[man2man]

Attendance figures would be sacrificed if it means joining the Fed.

[giant lugey]

GlenOak went 6-4 with a Federal League schedule, and made it in the playoffs.
We went 6-4 with our schedule and we are staying home.

I would sacrifice missing a few away games in exchange for making the playoffs. It is not about me, it is about the team.

[CarlE]

Attendance figures would be sacrificed if it means joining the Fed.

Really? How many people did Cincinnati bring this year? Warren? Clueless yet again.

[Spize]

GlenOak went 6-4 with a Federal League schedule, and made it in the playoffs.
We went 6-4 with our schedule and we are staying home.

I would sacrifice missing a few away games in exchange for making the playoffs. It is not about me, it is about the team.
GlenOak making it at 6-4 on a FED schedule is the exception not the norm. 18.5 is the lowest point total ever for D1 playoff entry. So many odd things had to happen for it to be that low. A FED team getting in at 6-4 is the exception not the norm. Just like Buchtel, WGH, and Mck being down as bad as they were the same year. Any normal year and we would have actually finished higher than them in points at 6-4 with our schedule, think about this... 5 more wins by our opponents that we beat and we would have been in instead of them.

5 more wins combined by Buchtel, Mck, WGH, and Middletown, or even West Hi and we would have been at 18.82 points.

That thought is not out of the question

Think about this.

Last year Mck was 9-1. That alone would have been enough

Last year WGH was 7-3, That's 3 games higher than last year

Last year West Hi was 3-7 and Middletown was 6-4
EITHER of those combined with WGH, would have been enough.

Last year Buchtel was 6-4. That plus Mck not having a forfeit, or ONE other win by our opponents and we would have been in.

Would it have been unheard of for Mck to go 5-5, Wgh 6-4, and Buchtel 3-8? Because that would have had us in.

Yes, we actually were that close. Literally. Not even the counting the one inch against Solon that would have changed that game completely, or the 30 seconds against Mentor. Think about this... If Middletown doesn't give up a 2 point conversion, scores on 4th and goal from the half yard line, if Buchtel has a kicker than makes extra points, Mck doesn't forfeit that game because of a kid that played on one play... then we would be in the playoffs.

GlenOak being in the FED didn't get them in the playoffs as much as Massillon not being in the playoffs did. It would take to long to list all the things that had to happen to allow the FLUKE of a team making the D1 playoffs at 6-4 and 18.5 points. It did happen amazingly. However to give you an idea of how much of a fluke it was, think of how close we actually were as well.


To let you know how bad it really was in our region this year.... 6 WINS against 5 4-6 teams and one 3-7 team would have got you into the playoffs. In fact, there is actually a scenario where a 3-6 team (note the 9week sched.) could have made the playoffs this year in this region.

[Spize]

Really? How many people did Cincinnati bring this year? Warren? Clueless yet again.

Warren typically brings a lot more, this was an odd year.

Western Hills I agree, pointswise we would have been better off had we cancelled the game this year.

Actually if we had cancelled the Western Hills game instead of playing it and Mck didn't forfeit that game against the Detroit team, we would have been one L2 (team we beat defeating another team) away from being in the playoffs.

So let's just say, I am not a big fan of playing Western Hills either. There are so many other teams that would have been better for us to play. Actually... If we played D.C. Dunbar instead... we would have been in the playoffs.

[Mr.Deedee]

Even though we all might be dead tomorrow, these speculations are entertaining to say the least. I think someone should copy them all down so that we can compare them to what really happens 2 or 3 or so years from now and see who came the closest to being right.

With all of the good economic news lately for Massillon (Shearers foods=250 more jobs, PatentHEALTH, Inc=500 new jobs) and some other news that may be coming in the near future we may actually see an INCREASE in our enrollment. Couple that with the fact that Jackson can't pass a levy and Plain can't pass a levy, we may see a large exodus of open enrolled students from the FED schools into ours!! (Wouldn't THAT be a kick in the pants?!?!) Oh the DREAM project is projected to attract students from other districts, too. So, maybe we won't have to worry about chosing between the FEDs or D2. Our only choice will be FED vs no FED. And we already know where the powers that be are leaning.

[massillon catholic]

Massillon's stated goal is to join the Fed. The administration will do whatever they can to join, even "take out the trash".

D2 is a function of popualtion decline.

Both are inevitable.


I could be wrong m2m, but I thought the population has remained pretty consistent and higher than Perry and North Canton which are both D1.

[bar_tiger]

http://www.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/684/684961cf5959b198148f9529afb34174de1d40.jpg (http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=684961&showlnk=0)

[obie 66]

It is a pipe dream that we will get into the FED. It takes a 100% majority of the leagues members to admit a team. Jackson has been on record for some time now that we will never get in as long as they have a vote.

Also, 4 FED teams made the playoffs. Glen Oak, Lake, Boardman, and North Canton. Playing in that league is not a death sentence to the playoffs.

[Seeker]

I could be wrong m2m, but I thought the population has remained pretty consistent and higher than Perry and North Canton which are both D1.

The population of Massillon has nothing to do with it.
Massillon, as most know, is made up of several school districts.
Our enrollment has remained fairly steady lately, but if the OHSAA raises the level for DI, we will drop to DII.

The state could re-draw the school district boundaries, but that has a very very small chance of happening until state law dictates a major change in school funding.

Jobs coming into the area, and even into the city have next to no bearing on enrollment, as the school district has a relatively fixed number of housing units.

Enrollment could increase by:
Older people selling their homes to people of child-bearing years.
Transfers from the surrounding districts.
People having more children per family unit than they have historically been having for the past 15 years.
Redistricting.

At this point redistricting from the state and transfers in from surrounding schools are the only two ways we will stay in DI.

:vconst:

[Obie Wan]

It is a pipe dream that we will get into the FED. It takes a 100% majority of the leagues members to admit a team. Jackson has been on record for some time now that we will never get in as long as they have a vote.
What is your source for this? The league bylaws used to require 75% approval. When did that change?

Also, 3 FED teams made the playoffs. Glen Oak, Lake, and North Canton.
There are 4 Fed teams in the playoffs.

[CarlE]

Having read everything, I only have one thing to say:

"The Fed, and our AD that is taking out their trash, can kiss my ASS"!!

'Nuff said from the Southern Region.

[Spize]

What is your source for this? The league bylaws used to require 75% approval. When did that change?


Ok. The FED has stated that they do not need any more teams, I 100% agree. It has been stated that the only logical time the FED would admit a new member is if a team(s) left. Once again, logical. Lake has stated that they are not going anywhere, Perry, Jackson, Hoover, GlenOak, no doubt stay. If Mck left to become independent then it would make no sense why we would want in(not that it does anyhow). If Mck left for another league, it would likely be a new league and we would probably be in on it too. So it is safe to say the team(s) to leave would be Boardman/Fitch (more than likely it would be both).

So let's check the voting

Mck - A likely YES
GlenOak - I don't know his opinion of Massillon in the FED, but now a Massillon friendly school, so probably a YES.
Perry - Wakefield is gone, but the animosity is not, NO
Hoover - Please, if they wanted to anything to do with us at all they would have scheduled us in the regular season by now, we have had open dates at the same time, there were talks and Hoover put out an offer they were sure we would turn down. A likely NO
Jackson - NO, not even Mcd' could make a dent in this one. (What sport do we play them in anyhow?)
Lake - No clue how they would vote, but if you wanted the support of their coach you could always hire his son... oh wait.

Without Boardman/Fitch it would be a 6 team league. To get 75% or more would require 5 of the 6. If they were to add a "Massillon friendly" 7th team first, then it would take 6 of 7. Even if you could beg, and take out the trash for, one of the current no voters, you would still not get in. You would have to get 2 of the 3 out of Hoover, Perry, and Jackson... and that ain't gonna happen.

Basically the FED doesn't want us, no matter what we do they won't want us, so why is this even a conversation?

Our admin begging and pleading and trying to convince us the FED is where we need to be is a joke, and guess who is laughing?

[Obie Wan]

Perry - Wakefield is gone, but the animosity is not, NO
I disagree. I think that Perry would vote "yes". We play Perry in almost (if not literally) every sport that we offer. We have cooperative educational agreements. I see very little reason to think that they would be opposed.

2 of 3 from Hoover, Lake, and Jackson? I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Spize]

I disagree. I think that Perry would vote "yes". We play Perry in almost (if not literally) every sport that we offer. We have cooperative educational agreements. I see very little reason to think that they would be opposed.

2 of 3 from Hoover, Lake, and Jackson? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Regardless of what other sports we play with them, football is enough with them to keep us out. They literally want nothing to do with playing us at all in football. I know a few people there and word is this, when playing Massillon in football comes up it boils down to this, only if it is a playoff game.

Regardless of that you are correct, there is no way we would get enough votes to get in, even if everyone in Massillon wanted in.

[Al.]

Regardless of what other sports we play with them, football is enough with them to keep us out. They literally want nothing to do with playing us at all in football. I know a few people there and word is this, when playing Massillon in football comes up it boils down to this, only if it is a playoff game.


.....or a preseason scrimmage :rolleyes:

[austinsm11]

I think that Perry would play us at football...no facts or sources to back it, just my opinion.

I would agree that I don't see Jackson or Hoover voting for Massillon.


I am back and forth as far as the issue of being in the FED. I see both sides. I do think that if Massillon was in the FED this year, we would be in the playoffs right now...which at least gives us a shot at a championship. If it was a 7-8 team FED, we could still schedule warren (and iggy if there are only 7 teams) and still have tough games against McKinley and whichever FED team is on a roll that year.

Massillon would lose the very high quality schedule that has been in place for awhile. I know that I do enjoy listening and hearing about games with Iggy, or Mentor, or Eds, or a Cinci team. I think the players enjoy playing these top notch teams as well.

[orangeblood]

I think that Perry would play us at football...no facts or sources to back it, just my opinion.

I would agree that I don't see Jackson or Hoover voting for Massillon.


I am back and forth as far as the issue of being in the FED. I see both sides. I do think that if Massillon was in the FED this year, we would be in the playoffs right now...which at least gives us a shot at a championship. If it was a 7-8 team FED, we could still schedule warren (and iggy if there are only 7 teams) and still have tough games against McKinley and whichever FED team is on a roll that year.

Massillon would lose the very high quality schedule that has been in place for awhile. I know that I do enjoy listening and hearing about games with Iggy, or Mentor, or Eds, or a Cinci team. I think the players enjoy playing these top notch teams as well.
Austinism, as far as a shot at a championship, we were not a good enough football team, as we all know from what we saw this year. It really is, unfortunately, that simple. It kills me as a Tiger to admit that, but I must be realistic. I do know from talking to kids on the team year after year that they enjoy a state wide schedule.

As far as the Fed goes, I agree with Carle:
Having read everything, I only have one thing to say:

"The Fed, and our AD that is taking out their trash, can kiss my ASS"!!

'Nuff said from the Southern Region.

[austinsm11]

Austinism, as far as a shot at a championship, we were not a good enough football team, as we all know from what we saw this year. It really is, unfortunately, that simple. It kills me as a Tiger to admit that, but I must be realistic. I do know from talking to kids on the team year after year that they enjoy a state wide schedule.


I can't really say...didn't make it home for any games this year and only got to listen to the games. Regardless if we were good enough to actually win the championship, the best teams don't always win. Sometimes teams that peak at the right time can go far. I still think this team was good enough to at least be in the playoffs (wouldn't you agree with that?) and that experience as well as the extra games can only help the underclassman.

Let me also clarify what I meant about having a shot at the championship. Right now they have a 0% shot. Even if it was the worst team in Tiger history that made the playoffs, at least they have a shot at it, even if it is 0.01% shot...it's better than no chance.


Like I said, I see both sides to the issue. I'm sure that the kids do like playing the statewide schedule...but I also bet they like being in the playoffs this year.

[orangeblood]

I can't really say...didn't make it home for any games this year and only got to listen to the games. Regardless if we were good enough to actually win the championship, the best teams don't always win. Sometimes teams that peak at the right time can go far. I still think this team was good enough to at least be in the playoffs (wouldn't you agree with that?) and that experience as well as the extra games can only help the underclassman.

Like I said, I see both sides to the issue.I see your line of thought, but I cannot sell my soul to the Fed for a playoff "chance." Beat Solon and we were in. WE did not get that done.

[austinsm11]

I see your line of thought, but I cannot sell my soul to the Fed for a playoff "chance." Beat Solon and we were in. WE did not get that done.

I can agree with that.

[orangeblood]

http://www.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/684/684961cf5959b198148f9529afb34174de1d40.jpg (http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=684961&showlnk=0)I like this, can I borrow it? LOL

[The Butler]

I disagree. I think that Perry would vote "yes". We play Perry in almost (if not literally) every sport that we offer. We have cooperative educational agreements. I see very little reason to think that they would be opposed.


I tend to agree with this statement that Perry would vote yes. Wrestling and (regular season) football are the only two sports that the teams don't play. The football scrimmage seems to be a fixture and I wouldn't be surprised to see a regular season game in the next 5 years. The playoff game last year was probably the "hottest ticket" ever at Perry Stadium. It's not too far fetched to say the attendance for that game would have been 50% higher given a larger facility.

That said I'm not for Massillon's membership given the current state of the league. The two division format of the late '80's didn't work. However, if someone(s) were to leave, I would be all for the Tiger's membership.

[giant lugey]

I keep hearing 2 arguments against the Fed,
1) The schedule will be too weak
2) Their stadiums are too small

If we scheduled any other DIV 1 schools in the state, the same size as a Perry, Jackson, Hoover, GO, Fitch or Boardman, no one would be complaining.
What is the difference between them and a Middletown, Mansfield, Findlay, Freemont Ross or Lima.

We have played away games a similar size stadiums, and no one was turned away. Fitch, Freemont Ross, Findlay, Lima.

There are only a few large stadiums: Warren, Mansfield, Byers. I think the Fed teams stadiums are pretty much the norm as most other DIV 1 schools in the state.

[Spize]

I keep hearing 2 arguments against the Fed,
1) The schedule will be too weak
2) Their stadiums are too small

If we scheduled any other DIV 1 schools in the state, the same size as a Perry, Jackson, Hoover, GO, Fitch or Boardman, no one would be complaining.
What is the difference between them and a Middletown, Mansfield, Findlay, Freemont Ross or Lima.

We have played away games a similar size stadiums, and no one was turned away. Fitch, Freemont Ross, Findlay, Lima.

There are only a few large stadiums: Warren, Mansfield, Byers. I think the Fed teams stadiums are pretty much the norm as most other DIV 1 schools in the state.



My problem is more with the fact that we are humiliating ourselves and straight up trying to downgrade ourselves trying to get into a league that doesn't want us and will not vote for us to get in regardless of how many of us want it and how bad those people beg.

That and this... That league is not competitive with us.

BTW, we SHOULD be playing a couple of those teams already, but they DON'T WANT TO PLAY US IN FOOTBALL. Jackson doesn't want to play us in anything.

[tiger74]

giant lugey, that is true that no one was turned away but you have to remember that those stadiums are farther away. The local fed teams are alot closer and more fans would want to attend. When you play farther away less fans will go because of various reasons. Not trying to pick a fight lugey just saying this is a reason why we have had no problem with tickets for those games. Here is the records {2000-2007} for all the teams you mentioned,
FREMONT ROSS and FITCH both have 37-43 records.
GLENOAK and MANSFIELD both have 42-38 records.
the worst in the fed is BOARDMAN at 31-49 where as LIMA is 18-62.
MIDDLETOWN is 36-44 and FINDLAY is 47-33.
PERRY is 52-28 and JACKSON is 51-29.
The best out of all these teams is HOOVER at 58-22.
These records do NOT include playoffs and MASSILLONS record over this time is 54-26. To me the fed teams would be better to play then these other non fed teams you list. Just based on what the records are for a 7 year period. Remember that it might be different if you include other teams but for the teams you list this is what I see.

[tiger74]

spize, you are right in that we should be playing some of those teams already. But as you stated they will not play us.

[Red50Go]

"The powers that be" thought hiring a pro-Fed coach was the ticket. Where did that get us? NOWHERE but another three year interim coach w/ no long term plan. I used to be for pro-for Fed but, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Spize is exactly right. Next time just hire the most qualified coach and worry about winning and to heck w/ any other schools opinion - because it obviously means NOTHING. Hopefully everyone sees that now. I guarentee there aint a one of them who wants to see our program succeed, period. Can anyone possibly dispute that?

[giant lugey]

The Fed as a whole is a .500 league. Every league is a .500 league because every week you have one winner and one loser.
Of the teams we beat this year, their combined record is 23 - 38. or .377.
Of all the teams we played, their records were .548.
So basically our "tough" schedule, really wouldn't garner us much more points than a Fed Schedule, if we would win out on both.

True, many season ticket holders will not travel long distance to away games, but that just means that missing an away game now and then really isn't all that important to every season ticket holder.

[mike_da_man13]

The Fed as a whole is a .500 league. Every league is a .500 league because every week you have one winner and one loser.
Of the teams we beat this year, their combined record is 23 - 38. or .377.
Of all the teams we played, their records were .548.
So basically our "tough" schedule, really wouldn't garner us much more points than a Fed Schedule, if we would win out on both.

True, many season ticket holders will not travel long distance to away games, but that just means that missing an away game now and then really isn't all that important to every season ticket holder.

ok so lets join the fed and i want you to not attend any away game since its no big deal to you.

[giant lugey]

OK…Fitch is big enough, we’ve never been closed out there. I have never been to Boardman but they are about the same distance and I would imagine they have about the same size stadium as Fitch, so I wouldn’t be closed out there either.
Mckinley is obviously big enough.
That leaves Perry, Hoover, GO, Jackson and Lake. Since they would be home and home, you are talking about 2 or 3 games a year at most.
Lets say 20% of our season ticket holders are left out. There is probably 20% of our season ticket holders who would stay home anyway, for one reason or another. Many are elderly and won’t stray from PB. I know some that don’t even go to Mck when we play them away.
I doubt too many season ticket holders would be turned away, and if so, it would be once in a blue moon.

[LLRose]

opposition to joining the federal league is another example of how the culture needs to change for the program to get to the next level. i believe this team would be preparing for a game this weekend after an opening round win if we were a member of the fed and made the playoffs. hate me for wanting to make the playoffs and compete for a state championship if you want.

[Spize]

opposition to joining the federal league is another example of how the culture needs to change for the program to get to the next level. i believe this team would be preparing for a game this weekend after an opening round win if we were a member of the fed and made the playoffs. hate me for wanting to make the playoffs and compete for a state championship if you want.

Like I said earlier, this year's results were a FLUKE.

How often do Buchtel, WGH, and Mck combine for a 9-21 record? All three of these teams are teams that year in and year out will generally provide a 5-5 record each, or at least they will combine to be 15-15. If that had happened this year as it does a vast vast majority of years we would be in the playoffs and not GlenOak. The scenario for this year happens far far less often. I would say it is about a 5% chance that this scenario plays out again.

Joining the FED for us would not be the "next level" it would be a downgrade.

[Fats]

OK…Fitch is big enough, we’ve never been closed out there. I have never been to Boardman but they are about the same distance and I would imagine they have about the same size stadium as Fitch, so I wouldn’t be closed out there either.
Mckinley is obviously big enough.
That leaves Perry, Hoover, GO, Jackson and Lake. Since they would be home and home, you are talking about 2 or 3 games a year at most.
Lets say 20% of our season ticket holders are left out. There is probably 20% of our season ticket holders who would stay home anyway, for one reason or another. Many are elderly and won’t stray from PB. I know some that don’t even go to Mck when we play them away.
I doubt too many season ticket holders would be turned away, and if so, it would be once in a blue moon.
I think that we would have close to 40% or more left out.
We have 4000 to 4500 season ticket holders. Playing Massillon Jackson, Massillon Perry, GO we would probably only get 2000 to 2500 tickets. That would leave more than 20% not able to get tickets. My main objection to being in a league is that we will not play some tradition opponents and we will not play our marquee games. Part of our tradition and national renown is that we play teams across the state and from different parts of the nation. Also, if we lose 4 or 5 home games because of league affliation then how do we make up the loss revenue. In losing this revenue, IMO we will also hurt the minor sports. Another objection, I am one Tiger Fan that feels we still can compete with the Big Boys. We have made it to State only a few years ago. I really believe our fans like playing the Warren Hardings, Mentor, St. Iggy, Lima. It just would not be TIGER football without some of these teams on our schedule.

[Fats]

I will take off my Anti-Fed glasses and make a suggestion on some demands that we should make if (hopefully never) we join the FED.
1. The Fed league(exception MCK) must increase seating capacity by 2-3000 in 5 years.

2. Weeks 4-7 would be open weeks so that we can schedule outside league or play a league opponent. This gives us an opportunity to play some traditional opponents or state powers.

3. We are guaranteed an option of receiving 1/2 of the stadium seating capacity for our ticket buying fans. This helps us not lose as much revenue( because of our losing 3 to 4 home games).

[Red50Go]

hate me for wanting to make the playoffs and compete for a state championship if you want.

Go ahead and want all you want. Its your life but sounds like a waste of time to me. We ran one coach off, got the politically right one, added ex-Fed assistants, we have applied twice, grovelled in public, and where do we sit? Any closer? You are so pro-Fed you are in denial my friend, and cant even bare to direct your frustration to those who deserve it. It aint Spize keeping us out of the Fed.

[tiger#22]

I will take off my Anti-Fed glasses and make a suggestion on some demands that we should make if (hopefully never) we join the FED.
1. The Fed league(exception MCK) must increase seating capacity by 2-3000 in 5 years.

2. Weeks 4-7 would be open weeks so that we can schedule outside league or play a league opponent. This gives us an opportunity to play some traditional opponents or state powers.

3. We are guaranteed an option of receiving 1/2 of the stadium seating capacity for our ticket buying fans. This helps us not lose as much revenue( because of our losing 3 to 4 home games).

The problem is our Admin are the ones begging to get in the Fed so Massillon wont be able to make any demands.

[mike_da_man13]

OK…Fitch is big enough, we’ve never been closed out there. I have never been to Boardman but they are about the same distance and I would imagine they have about the same size stadium as Fitch, so I wouldn’t be closed out there either.
Mckinley is obviously big enough.
That leaves Perry, Hoover, GO, Jackson and Lake. Since they would be home and home, you are talking about 2 or 3 games a year at most.
Lets say 20% of our season ticket holders are left out. There is probably 20% of our season ticket holders who would stay home anyway, for one reason or another. Many are elderly and won’t stray from PB. I know some that don’t even go to Mck when we play them away.
I doubt too many season ticket holders would be turned away, and if so, it would be once in a blue moon.

are you serious? are you saying they wont stray five min down the road to perry or 6min to jackson? or 15 to NC, 10min to lake? your right.
not to mention a good amount of our fan base already lives in those school districts

[chap]

When Mck was Independent they beat the snot out of Fed teams they scheduled. Now they are playing at their level.

[Obie Wan]

The Fed league(exception MCK) must increase seating capacity by 2-3000 in 5 years.
I'm not sure that they'd ever go for that - nor am I sure that they should. They would need that extra capacity about once a year (every other year to play us, and and maybe one other exceptionally high-demand game). The capital expenditure might not be justified by that level of use.

Weeks 4-7 would be open weeks so that we can schedule outside league or play a league opponent. This gives us an opportunity to play some traditional opponents or state powers.
If you'll remember, the AAC was originally weeks 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. However, I've also read that some Fed schools are considering moving the start of league play up a week or two with an open week or two sprinkled in the middle.

But really, you shouldn't need a league policy to do that - all you should need is the agreement of the two competing schools. If Perry and Jackson agree to play in week 2 instead of week 7, why should the league care?

We are guaranteed an option of receiving 1/2 of the stadium seating capacity for our ticket buying fans. This helps us not lose as much revenue( because of our losing 3 to 4 home games).
Think about that for a minute. Suppose we get 3000 seats at Hoover and the place sells out (8500). The next year, we give Hoover 3000 seats and the game draws 12,000. We get the revenue from 12,000 tickets in 2 years. It's exactly the same if we get 4250 seats at Hoover - we still get revenue from 12,000 tickets every two years. The only difference is if our tickets prices are higher than theirs - in which case we make more money by getting fewer tickets to road games.

[CATS44]

1) 3000 seats minimum for away games.

2) Whatever number of seats we get away, the opposing team gets at PBTS.

3) Everybody keeps their own ticket sales.

4) No expenses paid.

5) McKinley is our rival game.

Thats it. We keep WGH on the schedule, add two/three home games to start the season (Buchtel and Garfield make sense as permanent pieces of the schedule)...and away we go.

A minimum of six home games every year.

Home attendance will jump 3000-4000 per game. Away attendance will jump several thousand per game, too. Travel costs will plummet. Everybody would make a mint on the deal.

[CATS44]

The market will set the size of the stadiums.

[austinsm11]

When Mck was Independent they beat the snot out of Fed teams they scheduled. Now they are playing at their level.

They did?

From 1990 - 2003 they were 18-13 against FED teams. Throw out the great seasons of 97 and 98 and they are 12-13 against the FED. You also have to consider that the FED team they played about every year was GO, not usually one of the top teams in the league.

From 2004- until the present they are 23-6 against the FED teams.

[Red50Go]

The market will set the size of the stadiums.

Only if you are dealing in reason, which we are not. The market says Hoover, Perry, GO, & Jackson should play a home/away with us, or even away at Fawcett (which they would never do of course). Even on a non-league basis. But I dont think they care about what the market wants, and are too blinded by petty "political" issues to allow something trivial like fiscal responsibility guide their policies.

[Banks]

1) 3000 seats minimum for away games.

2) Whatever number of seats we get away, the opposing team gets at PBTS.

3) Everybody keeps their own ticket sales.

4) No expenses paid.

5) McKinley is our rival game.

Thats it. We keep WGH on the schedule, add two/three home games to start the season (Buchtel and Garfield make sense as permanent pieces of the schedule)...and away we go.

A minimum of six home games every year.

Home attendance will jump 3000-4000 per game. Away attendance will jump several thousand per game, too. Travel costs will plummet. Everybody would make a mint on the deal.

You are spot on!

Massillon and the Fed. League is a good fit, I know most will disagree but its time to get over it.

[Obie Wan]

Thats it. We keep WGH on the schedule, add two/three home games to start the season (Buchtel and Garfield make sense as permanent pieces of the schedule)...and away we go.
Given the current makeup of the Fed, that means that we would have exactly the same schedule every year.

A minimum of six home games every year.
That's also the maximum number of home games.

Home attendance will jump 3000-4000 per game.
I don't know how likely that is. Fed schools don't take 3-4000 fans to road games now (if they did, they'd all have bigger stadiums). Would our fans make up that difference?

Away attendance will jump several thousand per game, too.
If we only get 3000 seats, attendance won't be going up several thousand. For that to be true, we'd have to be selling fewer than 1,000 tickets now. I don't believe our road sales are that low.

Travel costs will plummet.
How much does it cost to run a few busses to Cleveland or Mentor?

Everybody would make a mint on the deal.
Let's see: We had 7 home games this year with an average attendance of 7700 per game. With 6 homes, we'd need almost 9,000 per game to break even. Could happen. If we average 10,000 per league game, 15,000 for McKinley, and 9,000 for Buchtel/Garfield/Warren, that's 120,000 home tickets every 2 years (average 10,000 per game). The last two years we sold 115,000 tickets for 13 home games. The hypothetical Fed schedule would net us maybe $20,000 a year ($8/ticket * 5,000 tickets every 2 years). I'm not sure $20,000 qualifies as a mint.

Now, of course, there are a lot of factors other than football ticket sales that contribute to the bottom line. It may be that the Fed would be a financial bonanza for us, but no one has ever stepped up to the plate to make that case. As of now, the analysis that is out there doesn't support that assertion.