glenoak 7 on 7

[mtigers96]

How was it?
What QB shined?
How was the D?

[longtimefirsttime]

The Tigers did not have as good of a defensive showing on Wednesday as they did on Tuesday. But as Coach Stacy said in the paper, it may have been due to trying new personnel and new positions. The QB situation was about the same from what I could tell. There were some brilliant throws and some mistakes. I left when the thunderstorm moved through though.

[CarlE]

The Tigers did not have as good of a defensive showing on Wednesday as they did on Tuesday. But as Coach Stacy said in the paper, it may have been due to trying new personnel and new positions. The QB situation was about the same from what I could tell. There were some brilliant throws and some mistakes. I left when the thunderstorm moved through though.

Hmmm..what can I take from THAT????

[Obie Wan]

I left when the thunderstorm moved through though.
Hmmm..what can I take from THAT????
That he sat in his season ticket seats and didn't think to move up under the roof?

[OldSchoolObie]

Any word on how the Lineman Challenge went?? :thanx:

[longtimefirsttime]

I moved up under the roof for awhile. My ride had a limited amount of time, which wouldn't have been a problem since the Tigers were only playing one team (they're typically shorter than multi-team matchups). But when the storm moved through, it altered those plans.

[Kamd50]

I think that it went rather well. You should have stayed. A lot of people left when it started to rain, but it was brief and the sky cleared up quite nicely and it was probably just before it started to get dark when it was over. The play seemed to improve after the rain. But it sure seemed like that field was extremely slippery. I also did not like the way all of those little pieces of black rubber work their way up to the surface of the field and made the white lines and the one side of the big M look as if they were dirty or miscolored(like faded) before they even got to the actual playing time. I wonder if anyone knows if that is the way all of these types of fields look?

Anyway, I couldn't keep track of the V, but it seemed pretty evident from the cheering and reactions on the sidelines, that Massillon won that one.
I have to admit my attention was at the other end of the field watching the freshmen who came out on top. By the way, there were some bad sports on GO's team delivering a few cheap shots and talking a whole lot of trash. Guess they couldn't take it having the same team beat them 2 years in a row.

[longtimefirsttime]

Obviously had it been a real game, I would've stayed. But I really had seen enough at that point. They had already been playing for about an hour. The hot dog vendors were sad to see me go though.

[obiegirl]

Any word on how the Lineman Challenge went?? :thanx:

Glenoak won almost across the board in the first go through of the lineman challenge. Massillon took all of the 2nd challenge except the 2nd freshman group. They did a tie breaker of the 1st Varsity group and Glenoak pulled that one out at the end.

[Kamd50]

Well, boo to that! What exactly were they doing over there?

[obiegirl]

Well, boo to that! What exactly were they doing over there?

LOL Well... I dont know the names of the things they were doing... BUT...

They started out lining up one on one... they would have to try to keep the defender out, then they would switch and try to get in as the defender. Then they went to 5 on 5 with one position trying to get to the quarterback or to protect the quarterback. (Im sorry if this isnt making any sense)

The challenge was groups of players that ran a relay race... each player had to sprint a section, carry 2 torpedos for a section, flip the huge tires 3 times for a section and then drag a big tackling pad (oh my goodness my son would be embarassed at my explanation here)

Sorry if that doesnt make much sense.... the best I can do though... lol

[Kamd50]

Hahaha! I know what you mean:hyper: So what! I know a lot more now about what they were doing than I did before, which was Zero. Thanks, it was a pretty good explanation actually:tig:

I would like to know how much weight anyone puts into this kind of a competition when trying to evaluate the players though.

[DAWGH8R]

Hmmm..what can I take from THAT????

Ohio weather SUX !!

[Kamd50]

By the way, Obiegirl, WELCOME to the sometimes controversial, always informative, sometimes opinionated, ALWAYS entertaining , TIGER loving Massillon Proud! It is always great to see more females and mothers adding to the mix on these forums. So I would like to add a :thanx: as well. That includes casey deciding to make more posts as well!

[DAWGH8R]

By the way, Obiegirl, WELCOME to the sometimes controversial, always informative, sometimes opinionated, ALWAYS entertaining , TIGER loving Massillon Proud!

How about ALWAYS controversial, SOMETIMES informative !!

Welcome OBIEGIRL !! Don't mind CarlE !!!:dance:

PS, KAMD your up LATE !!!

[Kamd50]

LOL, I agree and I know! I drank 2 of those stupid energy drinks at the 7 on 7 and am still woundup. I will pay for it tomorrow morning when practice time rolls around:sad2:

[obie 66]

Scrimmage ended 8-4 in our favor. D looked shaky at times. Unlike night before Partridge struggled a bit. All through TD passes! Wow, do we have some ATHLETES this year!

[monte81]

Scrimmage ended 8-4 in our favor. D looked shaky at times. Unlike night before Partridge struggled a bit. All through TD passes! Wow, do we have some ATHLETES this year!


The 7 on 7 means little since Glenoak is running our offense and coach is moving players around to fit his sceme. Altogether we looked pretty good for a few weeks into camp.

We definitely will be explosive on offense. Defenses always struggle in these types of event---no rush, open field, etc,... no determining factor of nothing on defense. Offensive skills get better defenses just go through the motions because of the set ups.

[Kamd50]

Monte, I got to talk to Pooter last night at the 7 on 7. He is in Great shape! And said his first impressions of the new college life were "awesome". I told him that I would be following his development through you and that I know he will make us Massillonians proud:thumbsup: He is a find young man with a great pesonality, I wish him the best of everything!

Also, is the young man (a qb prospect) on the freshman team a cousin of yours as I have heard? lol

[OldSchoolObie]

Glenoak won almost across the board in the first go through of the lineman challenge. Massillon took all of the 2nd challenge except the 2nd freshman group. They did a tie breaker of the 1st Varsity group and Glenoak pulled that one out at the end.

I've heard different. I heard the "Combat" drill was a dead tie. Both varsity groups performed well, offensively and defensively. The 1 on 1 I was told was given to the Tigers. The obstacle course at the end was taken as a team score, not by varsity or JV, the teams lined up in groups of 5. The Tigers also took that with more wins. The tie breaker was just for bragging rights.

[Obie Wan]

Also, is the young man (a qb prospect) on the freshman team a cousin of yours as I have heard? lol
I'm sure that Monte is related to about 80% of the freshman team. Seeing as how he's related to about 80% of the people in the county.

[Kamd50]

I'm sure that Monte is related to about 80% of the freshman team. Seeing as how he's related to about 80% of the people in the county.

Lol! bye the way Monte, I am talking about the kid from Green.

[massillon catholic]

I'd rather look good in November than July! The QB race will make them all better players.

[Benchboss1]

Hmmm..what can I take from THAT????

That LTFT needs an umbrella?:doh:

[obiegirl]

I've heard different. I heard the "Combat" drill was a dead tie. Both varsity groups performed well, offensively and defensively. The 1 on 1 I was told was given to the Tigers. The obstacle course at the end was taken as a team score, not by varsity or JV, the teams lined up in groups of 5. The Tigers also took that with more wins. The tie breaker was just for bragging rights.

As I said before I dont know the names for all the things they were doing. I was only talking about the obstacle course as far as GlenOak getting the better of Massillon in the first round. Massillon taking all but one in the 2nd round and then they said since the Varsity's had each taken one that they would do a tiebreaker and GlenOak pulled that one out. As far as the 5 on 5 and the 1 on 1 I have no idea how the Varsity or JV did as I was watching the freshman.

[hitman]

Scrimmage ended 8-4 in our favor. D looked shaky at times. Unlike night before Partridge struggled a bit. All through TD passes! Wow, do we have some ATHLETES this year!

8-4??????? You better review the tape!

[hitman]

I think that it went rather well. You should have stayed. A lot of people left when it started to rain, but it was brief and the sky cleared up quite nicely and it was probably just before it started to get dark when it was over. The play seemed to improve after the rain. But it sure seemed like that field was extremely slippery. I also did not like the way all of those little pieces of black rubber work their way up to the surface of the field and made the white lines and the one side of the big M look as if they were dirty or miscolored(like faded) before they even got to the actual playing time. I wonder if anyone knows if that is the way all of these types of fields look?

Anyway, I couldn't keep track of the V, but it seemed pretty evident from the cheering and reactions on the sidelines, that Massillon won that one.
I have to admit my attention was at the other end of the field watching the freshmen who came out on top. By the way, there were some bad sports on GO's team delivering a few cheap shots and talking a whole lot of trash. Guess they couldn't take it having the same team beat them 2 years in a row.

Right b/c I am sure none of the massillon players were talking trash either?

[sly4458]

kid to watch this year spencer leno. good kid and plays his tail off. another one is bo grunder. both soph.

[massillon catholic]

8-4??????? You better review the tape!

So, what was the score?

[hitman]

Sorry I don't keep track of scores in a 7on7 and I don't know of anyone who would BUT if I had to give a score I would say that Massillon had the edge but not by 4 scores. Massillon's middle of the defense got torched last night.

[massillon catholic]

Sorry I don't keep track of scores in a 7on7 and I don't know of anyone who would BUT if I had to give a score I would say that Massillon had the edge but not by 4 scores. Massillon's middle of the defense got torched last night.

The only reason that I asked was because you implied that the score wasn't 8-4, by your "review the tape" statement. I agree with you that the score of a 7 on 7 isn't indicative of anything. What type of passes were the middle of the D getting torched? Short dump offs, over the middle screens etc.

[hitman]

As I said before I dont know the names for all the things they were doing. I was only talking about the obstacle course as far as GlenOak getting the better of Massillon in the first round. Massillon taking all but one in the 2nd round and then they said since the Varsity's had each taken one that they would do a tiebreaker and GlenOak pulled that one out. As far as the 5 on 5 and the 1 on 1 I have no idea how the Varsity or JV did as I was watching the freshman.

Funny b/c I was standing next to whom I believe is Massillon's O-Line coach (big guy with all of the ink) and he was telling a friend or a parent that GlenOak dominated them and that he wasn't happy at all. He also said that they (Tigers) had no answer for GlenOak's big DT. I would think that the O-Line coach would have a better feel on how "his" players performed instead of all of these "arm chair" coaches.

[hitman]

The only reason that I asked was because you implied that the score wasn't 8-4, by your "review the tape" statement. I agree with you that the score of a 7 on 7 isn't indicative of anything. What type of passes were the middle of the D getting torched? Short dump offs, over the middle screens etc.

The tape thing was just a saying:blush2: GlenOak's 15-25 yard crossing routes were giving the Tigers fit. The Tigers seem ok on the outside of the hashes but btw the hashes they need some more work.

[massillon catholic]

The tape thing was just a saying:blush2: GlenOak's 15-25 yard crossing routes were giving the Tigers fit. The Tigers seem ok on the outside of the hashes but btw the hashes they need some more work.

Inside the hashes deep or over the middle? Were the 15-25 yard crossing routes supposed to be covered by LB's or DB's?

[obiegirl]

Funny b/c I was standing next to whom I believe is Massillon's O-Line coach (big guy with all of the ink) and he was telling a friend or a parent that GlenOak dominated them and that he wasn't happy at all. He also said that they (Tigers) had no answer for GlenOak's big DT. I would think that the O-Line coach would have a better feel on how "his" players performed instead of all of these "arm chair" coaches.

Again that sounds like the 1 on 1 drills and the 5 on 5 and NOT the obstacle course which is what I was speaking of. I said I didnt know how the Varsity and JV did during those drills because I was watching the freshmen.

[massillon catholic]

Funny b/c I was standing next to whom I believe is Massillon's O-Line coach (big guy with all of the ink) and he was telling a friend or a parent that GlenOak dominated them and that he wasn't happy at all. He also said that they (Tigers) had no answer for GlenOak's big DT. I would think that the O-Line coach would have a better feel on how "his" players performed instead of all of these "arm chair" coaches.

I didn't realize that the lines participated in 7 on 7.

[obiegirl]

I didn't realize that the lines participated in 7 on 7.

He's referring to the Lineman Challenge that was held in the outfield at the baseball field.

[massillon catholic]

He's referring to the Lineman Challenge that was held in the outfield at the baseball field.

Did they wear pads?

[obiegirl]

Did they wear pads?

No... helmets only

[Kamd50]

Funny b/c I was standing next to whom I believe is Massillon's O-Line coach (big guy with all of the ink) and he was telling a friend or a parent that GlenOak dominated them and that he wasn't happy at all. He also said that they (Tigers) had no answer for GlenOak's big DT. I would think that the O-Line coach would have a better feel on how "his" players performed instead of all of these "arm chair" coaches.

I don't see anyone pretending or trying to give direction like they are a coach. This is however a forum where all people are allowed to give their opinions and discuss things without having to fit some certain type of criteria before doing so, for heaven's sake.

[The Voice]

Hitman is correct. Not only last night, but also tonight. The Tigers were torched in the mid/deep middle. They seemed to be tired and didn't care.
I wasn't happy at all with what I saw with this initial glimpse:gasp:

tv

[Kamd50]

My husband thought that at times they looked good and others they didn't. Sometimes they would shut down the other team, and then other times they got scored on. He said that it was really kind of hard to tell because Massillon took guys in and out on almost every single play. But mostly, they are just getting a chance to get a look at some of the younger guys, in his opinion.
Two a days start Aug 2nd, and scrimmage Sat. Aug 11@home 6:00 vs Perry
:gotigers:

[massillon catholic]

No... helmets only


Then, I don't know how any conclusions can be made about the lineman without pads.

[massillon catholic]

Hitman is correct. Not only last night, but also tonight. The Tigers were torched in the mid/deep middle. They seemed to be tired and didn't care.
I wasn't happy at all with what I saw with this initial glimpse:gasp:

tv

As I've said in other posts, Turner needs to be at safety. He can cover ground and fill in the middle. Playing him at corner negates his strengths.

[massillon catholic]

Hitman is correct. Not only last night, but also tonight. The Tigers were torched in the mid/deep middle. They seemed to be tired and didn't care.
I wasn't happy at all with what I saw with this initial glimpse:gasp:

tv


Was Torrence in the middle?

[TigerDL71]

Hahaha! I know what you mean:hyper: So what! I know a lot more now about what they were doing than I did before, which was Zero. Thanks, it was a pretty good explanation actually:tig:

I would like to know how much weight anyone puts into this kind of a competition when trying to evaluate the players though.


Its hard to tell how it will translate into a game situation. It does show some stuff about the players. The tire flip is an example of leg drive and quickness and explosion. The torpedo carrer is a measure of a players stamina as well as mental toughness. As always all of it is about agility and feet work and quickness. It must hold a lot of weight and determiniation though or else Coach Studer wouldnt have put so much time and effort into it. We used to do that linemen stuff all the time during the summer.

[massillon catholic]

Its hard to tell how it will translate into a game situation. It does show some stuff about the players. The tire flip is an example of leg drive and quickness and explosion. The torpedo carrer is a measure of a players stamina as well as mental toughness. As always all of it is about agility and feet work and quickness. It must hold a lot of weight and determiniation though or else Coach Studer wouldnt have put so much time and effort into it. We used to do that linemen stuff all the time during the summer.


We definitely miss Stu!

[OldSchoolObie]

Funny b/c I was standing next to whom I believe is Massillon's O-Line coach (big guy with all of the ink) and he was telling a friend or a parent that GlenOak dominated them and that he wasn't happy at all. He also said that they (Tigers) had no answer for GlenOak's big DT. I would think that the O-Line coach would have a better feel on how "his" players performed instead of all of these "arm chair" coaches.



Funny, because I was told by one of the senior lineman that in the locker room, Coach Leisure (offensive line coach) was happy with their performance. He said there was still work needed to be done, and pointed out a few things imparticular, but all and all they performed well and that he was proud of them.

I think what you heard and what they heard conflicts a little.

[monte81]

KAMD50--- Pooder is in great shape and just finished mini camp last week and came home to help Coach Garcia with his secondary until 2adays start Aug 2. UT as of right now does not want to redshirt him at all but we will see what happens! Anthony on the freshman team is my cousins stepson and I am routing for him to get some playing time but he is still learning Stacy's complicated system compared to what he was taught at Green but he is improving.

On the scrimmage---like I said before these 7 on 7's are offensively weighted and defenses cannot be jdged on these performances. No rush, disruption, clear passing lanes, etc,... 15-25 yards passes over the middle is typical in 7 on 7's and we should not read into it much as in late July teams are just working out the squirts. We have 2 new talented linebackers, JT playing corner(Massillon catholic I wanted him at safety as well), and mostly new starters in all DB positions excluding Massey. WE ARE GOING TO BE A REAL GOOD TEAM! We will be ready August 24 for the season opener!

[slider63]

I saw 2 of the 3 scrimmages and I felt the QB play was average at best on Tuesday and below average on Thursday. The defense was above average on Tuesday and bad on Thursday. Our QB's missed many open receivers and the middle of the D was continually torched on Thursday. Fortunately it is early and there is much needed practice time to go before the first game. Slider, out!!!

[mtigers96]

From what i seen it looked like this could be the starting D:
DB:
Massey
Hildreth
Petis
JT

LB:
Dorie Irvan
DT
Vargas
And someone else if we run the 3-4

This is who i seen at the scrimmages as being the 1st team D. Note: I thought Rose looked good at ilb, has good size and that's something we haven't had in a few years.

My biggest concern on Defence is the D-Line, we can talk about this player being at saftey or corner i think ether way the coaches will make it work, we need some good D-Line play this year if we hope to go far in the playoffs. Look at the 05 D, it was good, but what made that D was the D-Line. This is what i think.

[monte81]

It definitely starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball I dont care what talent you have in the other positions. However---We are going to be fine in 2007!

[hitman]

Again that sounds like the 1 on 1 drills and the 5 on 5 and NOT the obstacle course which is what I was speaking of. I said I didnt know how the Varsity and JV did during those drills because I was watching the freshmen.

Well I would be more concerned about the 1 on 1's and the 5 on 5's then I would the obstacle course.

[hitman]

Funny, because I was told by one of the senior lineman that in the locker room, Coach Leisure (offensive line coach) was happy with their performance. He said there was still work needed to be done, and pointed out a few things imparticular, but all and all they performed well and that he was proud of them.

I think what you heard and what they heard conflicts a little.

could be, we will see.

[hitman]

As I've said in other posts, Turner needs to be at safety. He can cover ground and fill in the middle. Playing him at corner negates his strengths.

You are 100% correct! Justin Turner would be one of the top safeties in the state!

[hitman]

Was Torrence in the middle?

Yes he was and he looked lost but more importantly he looked disinterested in playing defense, there could be more to that soon.

[hitman]

Inside the hashes deep or over the middle? Were the 15-25 yard crossing routes supposed to be covered by LB's or DB's?

Both, the LBS were dropping way too deep almost 15-20 yds which was opening the underneath routes and the safties had a hard time picking up the crossing routes from the corners. I question why they have a safety trying to learn a new position (CB) and a safety who only played a few games last year at OLB in the secondary this year. It's harder than people think learning a new position and the new schemes for these kids.

[massillon catholic]

Both, the LBS were dropping way too deep almost 15-20 yds which was opening the underneath routes and the safties had a hard time picking up the crossing routes from the corners. I question why they have a safety trying to learn a new position (CB) and a safety who only played a few games last year at OLB in the secondary this year. It's harder than people think learning a new position and the new schemes for these kids.


The LB's will be able to stay up closer if we had the right safeties in there. With Turner and Hildreth at Safety, the ILB's would know that those two would have their backs covered. Turner is one of the most athletic players in the state. IMO, he should be at safety and TB. I'm not too concerned about Torrence. I saw him play last year twice and he was a monster. Remember he played in the NBC which has relativley slower players than what he is facing now. It may just be an adjustment period. Just as, he will have to adjust to the speed of the game when he gets to Ohio State. Sometimes, I think Stacy out thinks himself in player positions.

[monte81]

The LB's will be able to stay up closer if we had the right safeties in there. With Turner and Hildreth at Safety, the ILB's would know that those two would have their backs covered. Turner is one of the most athletic players in the state. IMO, he should be at safety and TB. I'm not too concerned about Torrence. I saw him play last year twice and he was a monster. Remember he played in the NBC which has relativley slower players than what he is facing now. It may just be an adjustment period. Just as, he will have to adjust to the speed of the game when he gets to Ohio State. Sometimes, I think Stacy out thinks himself in player positions.

DT is learning a new system and will be ready for the season--- I know for sure he will be a dominant addition that teams will not handle. I hope we get to see the whole package from Stacy putting all our backs in the game together but I dont want him to show it NOW!

I agree that Stacy over evaluates players in the positions and situations! We had a dominate OLB last year but our staff did not play him correctly. Look at how Michigan scemes for Crable moving him around as a decoy because teams were forced to double him but if you leave a player stationary he is a easy target for teams to run away from him.
I liked the way we use to swap are backers from play to play! harder for teams to run away from your strengths!!!

[massillon catholic]

Playing Dailey outside allowed teams to run the other way. Thus, they had 2/3 of the field to work with without worrying about one of our top defensive players. He should have been in the middle, IMO. Especially after Porrini got hurt. The same with Torrence and Turner at safety. Teams cannot run away when our best defenders are in the middle of the field. I'm not suggesting that one of our DB's be replaced, I'm only suiggesting that they be put in the best spot to utilize their talent. A corner back is more of a "finesse" position. Safety is more of an aggressive position. Turner is an agressive player. By trying to make him a finesse player takes away his strenths. Also, when he is forced to run 30-40 yards down field to cover a reciever, he is going to be more winded for when they need him at TB. Coach Owens always said that he schemed his offense to attack the weakest link on defense and to stay away from the strengths of a defense. It's much harder to do that when the strengths are in the middle of the field.

[monte81]

I am wondering what the OFFICAL Dline will look like because we have to good up front to free our talented linebackers. In 2005 our linebackers and DB's made plays because our dline(Grizzard was a beast for us) was dominating teams every week.

[Red50Go]

I am wondering what the OFFICAL Dline will look like because we have to good up front to free our talented linebackers. In 2005 our linebackers and DB's made plays because our dline(Grizzard was a beast for us) was dominating teams every week.

You got that right. Grizz, Dickerhoof, James & Saunders as a group were one of the best fronts we ever had IMO.

McCall & Norris were slightly undersized for lb's but they were quick, and tough, and it worked.

Speaking of Grizzard, there is ALWAYS a Grizzard coming up to carry the tradition. They must have more relatives than YOU! Lol. Hopefully Brandyn stays healthy this year. I think there is a soph too.

[Tiger Flame]

As slider53 said in his post that the Tigers are a long way from being ready at this time,is right on. The Q.B. have not been consistant and the defensive seven are struggling as they learn as a unit to play together.With some personel learning different positions, this is to be expected but time is running short and we must get it all together. The front four has me very concerned as I have mentioned it before. We have only two starters back from last year and we are going to have to have some new personal really step it up if we are going to have a good defensive line and also to have some depth. This is the most critical area at this time on this years team. The other area is the offensive line as our Q.B. was getting destoyed last year. GO TIGERS

[TROCK9901]

I am in disagreement with both Mass Cath, hitman and Monte on JT. I went to the pass scrimmages on Tues and Wed (couldnt be there Thurs). I thought JT looked very good at corner (with still much more room for improvement) he had like 4-5 INT's. I believe he gave up one long ball but that can happen to any corner at anytime. And in response to what Mass Cath said about finesse players, from watching JT as a Freshman and Soph I feel he fits that mould more than the other. Just my opinion. Look at his running style on O. He is a slasher and relies on speed and moves more than he does power. Even in basketball he plays more like a big guard than a power forward. If JT gets tired we should have enough athletes to be able to spell him on either side of the ball so I don't see that as an issue. Here is the other thing, move JT to safety and that means either Hildreth (who was making plays all over the place Tues/I believe he was injured and did not play Wed???) or Pettis would move to corner. IMO both of those guys are physical players and should make good safeties. In JV ball last year those two were two of the most physical players on the field, best tacklers and they both played OLB at times last year so that says something about being physical (Safeties have to play low and high). So to me it feels as if JT at corner makes the most sense to get the BEST players on the field at the same time. But hey what do I know I am just an old fart who has watched a lot of football. I could be completely wrong but hope I am not.

[longtimefirsttime]

From Todd Porter's weekly prep notes column (the usual TP disclaimer applies):

"What makes Stacy's multiple offense so practical at the high school level is its adaptability. Massillon has three running backs who could start for most teams in Stark County - K.J. Herring, DeVoe Torrence and J.T. Turner. Stacy spent the summer figuring out ways to get all three on the field.

Here is the plan: Herring will get most of the work as a traditional tailback. In the two-back offense, Herring and Torrence will line up behind the quarterback. In the single-back set, Herring will line up at running back, Turner will split out to receiver and Torrence will go to slot. Then there is a full-house backfield with all three in the backfield.

As you might have guessed, Massillon will be running the ball much more this season."

The entire column can be read here.
http://cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=367482&Category=17&fromSearch=yes&subCategoryID=0

[monte81]

I am in disagreement with both Mass Cath, hitman and Monte on JT. I went to the pass scrimmages on Tues and Wed (couldnt be there Thurs). I thought JT looked very good at corner (with still much more room for improvement) he had like 4-5 INT's. I believe he gave up one long ball but that can happen to any corner at anytime. And in response to what Mass Cath said about finesse players, from watching JT as a Freshman and Soph I feel he fits that mould more than the other. Just my opinion. Look at his running style on O. He is a slasher and relies on speed and moves more than he does power. Even in basketball he plays more like a big guard than a power forward. If JT gets tired we should have enough athletes to be able to spell him on either side of the ball so I don't see that as an issue. Here is the other thing, move JT to safety and that means either Hildreth (who was making plays all over the place Tues/I believe he was injured and did not play Wed???) or Pettis would move to corner. IMO both of those guys are physical players and should make good safeties. In JV ball last year those two were two of the most physical players on the field, best tacklers and they both played OLB at times last year so that says something about being physical (Safeties have to play low and high). So to me it feels as if JT at corner makes the most sense to get the BEST players on the field at the same time. But hey what do I know I am just an old fart who has watched a lot of football. I could be completely wrong but hope I am not.

First--- I never, ever doubted JT's ability to play corner. He is probably the most ahtletic player on the team and can play EVERY skill position we have. I said he would be better at safety because teams are just going to throw away from him in gameplans!! He will be wasted when the season starts by game 3. Every scout knows who Massey will not challange him often that is why Stacy put JT at the other corner--I have alot of foootball sense and definitely understand why and safety may be is natural position. However we have a former OLB playing free safety and that is alot to ask when JT has been at that position since junior high school and knows his roll. I just hope the move works out and Pettis makes the adjustments. The scenerio is the same as playing Daily at OLB last year and teams just ran the other way--simple coaching adjustments. Secure the middle of the field 1st with Dline, safeties and LB's and work out. Pettis and Hildreth are physical players but I doubt with the linebackers we have this year that our safeties will have to play 4 yards off the ball like in 06.

[massillon catholic]

First--- I never, ever doubted JT's ability to play corner. He is probably the most ahtletic player on the team and can play EVERY skill position we have. I said he would be better at safety because teams are just going to throw away from him in gameplans!! He will be wasted when the season starts by game 3. Every scout knows who Massey will not challange him often that is why Stacy put JT at the other corner--I have alot of foootball sense and definitely understand why and safety may be is natural position. However we have a former OLB playing free safety and that is alot to ask when JT has been at that position since junior high school and knows his roll. I just hope the move works out and Pettis makes the adjustments. The scenerio is the same as playing Daily at OLB last year and teams just ran the other way--simple coaching adjustments. Secure the middle of the field 1st with Dline, safeties and LB's and work out. Pettis and Hildreth are physical players but I doubt with the linebackers we have this year that our safeties will have to play 4 yards off the ball like in 06.


Monte: I couldn't have said it any better. Turner will be wasted at corner. He's a safety and TB. Don't be surprised if he isnt the TB by the 2nd game. KJ is a great physical speciman, but he is injury prone and fumble prone. Hopefully, he avoids both this year and has a great season. The reason Gamble had so much action on D was because at Safety. Had Gamble been at corner the teams would have ran and thrown away from him, just like they did with Dailey. I'm still puzzled by the move to put Dailey on the outside and never even consider a change to the inside.
Turner is being asked to change postions on both offense and defense. TB to WR and Safety to Corner. Both of which he will be less involved in the action, it makes no sense to me.

[hitman]

Monte: I couldn't have said it any better. Turner will be wasted at corner. He's a safety and TB. Don't be surprised if he isnt the TB by the 2nd game. KJ is a great physical speciman, but he is injury prone and fumble prone. Hopefully, he avoids both this year and has a great season. The reason Gamble had so much action on D was because at Safety. Had Gamble been at corner the teams would have ran and thrown away from him, just like they did with Dailey. I'm still puzzled by the move to put Dailey on the outside and never even consider a change to the inside.
Turner is being asked to change postions on both offense and defense. TB to WR and Safety to Corner. Both of which he will be less involved in the action, it makes no sense to me.

Changing positions to make it more suitable for DT especially on offense. It still puzzles me how a home grown Massillon Tiger gets pushed out of eventually starting at TB and has to learn a new offense position in order for a "transfer" to get comfortable. If I was his father I wouldn't be to happy. But I bet he goes back to TB full-time next year.

[Buckeye80]

Here's a somewhat radical thought...
Maybe, just maybe, the coaches know what they are doing...
I mean after all, they see the players more than anyone else, they study hours and hours of film, this IS their livelyhood...
I know it goes against conventional wisdom...:wink:

[monte81]

Changing positions to make it more suitable for DT especially on offense. It still puzzles me how a home grown Massillon Tiger gets pushed out of eventually starting at TB and has to learn a new offense position in order for a "transfer" to get comfortable. If I was his father I wouldn't be to happy. But I bet he goes back to TB full-time next year.

JT is a stud and will be the feature next year but for now it is 3 headed monster at RB. I talked to him personally a few weeks ago about it and he stated to me"--- I will grind out and be noticed this season and do whatever I need to do for us to win football games--- Monte I am READY"! its not about him being pushed out of a position its doing whats best for the team and all 3 RB studs will get ALOT of carries this season!!! It's the preseason and all will not be happy until hitting starts in a few days!

IF YOU WANT A SPOT----TAKE THAT SPOT!!!! If not cheer for who is playing and love those tigers!!

[massillon catholic]

Here's a somewhat radical thought...
Maybe, just maybe, the coaches know what they are doing...
I mean after all, they see the players more than anyone else, they study hours and hours of film, this IS their livelyhood...
I know it goes against conventional wisdom...:wink:

Its not that they don't know what they are doing, but sometimes they over-study and out-think themselves. Also, just because its their livelyhood, are you saying that makes every coach a good one? Sometimes these guys just over-analyze things. Haven't you ever heard of KISS? Keep It Simple Stupid?

[monte81]

Its not that they don't know what they are doing, but sometimes they over-study and out-think themselves. Also, just because its their livelyhood, are you saying that makes every coach a good one? Sometimes these guys just over-analyze things. Haven't you ever heard of KISS? Keep It Simple Stupid?

Our 2007 team should do nothing but KISS-----run the damn ball until teams prove they can stop us!!!!!

[hitman]

Its not that they don't know what they are doing, but sometimes they over-study and out-think themselves. Also, just because its their livelyhood, are you saying that makes every coach a good one? Sometimes these guys just over-analyze things. Haven't you ever heard of KISS? Keep It Simple Stupid?

That being said then what makes Jack Rose a great coach? The State Title he won at STA in the early 80"s? Al Checca? Hasn't he applied for numerous head coaching jobs but never landed one? I am not singling any of them out but I guess what I am tired of hearing is how great these coaches are and this "hall of fame" staff. Checca was never a HC and Jack was let go at both massillon and glenoak. Do you mean to tell me that these "older" coaches know how to run a certain play or call a certain defense better than a younger type coach b/c they 've been around longer? I would say no! Last time I checked there weren't too many ways to run a toss sweep or an Iso or a counter. I would like someone to explain to me why these guys are "hall of fame" coache b/c if it is b/c of years in coaching, then I could think of a handful of coaches in stark county that could be labeled as "hall of fame" coaches.

[massillon catholic]

That being said then what makes Jack Rose a great coach? The State Title he won at STA in the early 80"s? Al Checca? Hasn't he applied for numerous head coaching jobs but never landed one? I am not singling any of them out but I guess what I am tired of hearing is how great these coaches are and this "hall of fame" staff. Checca was never a HC and Jack was let go at both massillon and glenoak. Do you mean to tell me that these "older" coaches know how to run a certain play or call a certain defense better than a younger type coach b/c they 've been around longer? I would say no! Last time I checked there weren't too many ways to run a toss sweep or an Iso or a counter. I would like someone to explain to me why these guys are "hall of fame" coache b/c if it is b/c of years in coaching, then I could think of a handful of coaches in stark county that could be labeled as "hall of fame" coaches.

I never said the coaches were a "hall of fame staff". I said in another post that they have many years of experience. Also, I believe that Checca was a head coach at Fairless many years ago, but I could be wrong.

[hitman]

JT is a stud and will be the feature next year but for now it is 3 headed monster at RB. I talked to him personally a few weeks ago about it and he stated to me"--- I will grind out and be noticed this season and do whatever I need to do for us to win football games--- Monte I am READY"! its not about him being pushed out of a position its doing whats best for the team and all 3 RB studs will get ALOT of carries this season!!! It's the preseason and all will not be happy until hitting starts in a few days!

IF YOU WANT A SPOT----TAKE THAT SPOT!!!! If not cheer for who is playing and love those tigers!!


Grind "it" out is right! Because he was the TB until DT transferred in and was instantly given the TB spot which put JT to WR. I betcha JT will be at WR 80% of the time this year. Yes JT will be the feature back next year b/c TS probly will be gone (OSU).

[hitman]

I never said the coaches were a "hall of fame staff". I said in another post that they have many years of experience. Also, I believe that Checca was a head coach at Fairless many years ago, but I could be wrong.

No I am not saying you said it, I was just tired of reading about it. You could be correct on Checca at Fairless. Heck I was already told at the first 7 on 7 that Kovacs and Checca are already buttin heads and thats not good.

[monte81]

Grind "it" out is right! Because he was the TB until DT transferred in and was instantly given the TB spot which put JT to WR. I betcha JT will be at WR 80% of the time this year. Yes JT will be the feature back next year b/c TS probly will be gone (OSU).


You have to have all the horses on the field!!! If Wr is where JT will get the most action he probably will be better than most in the state!!!b however he will get carries at RB. Both kids are Di college players and the focus is on winning a championship before college!

Alot of teams get transfers but DT is an all-american type player!! transfers-- good or bad? but I am glad he is rolling with the tigers!!!! When you guys really see what he is made of all this talk will stop!! GIVE HIM THE DAMN BALL!!!LOL

[massillon catholic]

Grind "it" out is right! Because he was the TB until DT transferred in and was instantly given the TB spot which put JT to WR. I betcha JT will be at WR 80% of the time this year. Yes JT will be the feature back next year b/c TS probly will be gone (OSU).

I've saidn all along Turner should be at TB and Safety.

[massillon catholic]

No I am not saying you said it, I was just tired of reading about it. You could be correct on Checca at Fairless. Heck I was already told at the first 7 on 7 that Kovacs and Checca are already buttin heads and thats not good.

Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians!

[monte81]

Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians!


I always felt we should have a great HC and a young talented TIGER STAFF---PERIOD!!! Noone knows a tiger better than a tiger!

[hitman]

Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians!

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And that could really hurt a program. Too many egos clashing! I guess MC you hit my point right on about the staff. Some what I've been told there has been "a lot" of verbal differences coming from the defensive room, including Rose, already and 2-a-days haven't even started yet. NOT GOOD MY FELLOW TIGER FANS!!!!!!!

[massillon catholic]

I always felt we should have a great HC and a young talented TIGER STAFF---PERIOD!!! Noone knows a tiger better than a tiger!

Exactly right. Too many coaches that were either Head Coaches or Coordinators. Now, they are position coaches. This could be able major issue for Stacy to handle, along with the players.

[massillon catholic]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And that could really hurt a program. Too many egos clashing! I guess MC you hit my point right on about the staff. Some what I've been told there has been "a lot" of verbal differences coming from the defensive room, including Rose, already and 2-a-days haven't even started yet. NOT GOOD MY FELLOW TIGER FANS!!!!!!!

It sounds like Stacy didn't spell-out what each coaches responsiblity would be. Had he done so, each coach would know their boundaries.

[monte81]

Exactly right. Too many coaches that were either Head Coaches or Coordinators. Now, they are position coaches. This could be able major issue for Stacy to handle, along with the players.

We would have a great staff just taking former tiger players coaching around the state!! Just bring them home! I loved it when I played in the late 80's---90% of our coaches played for the tigers and wanted nothing else but to be great position coaches--Lectivitis, Wells, James, Whitfield, Jarvis, V, etc,... TIGERS 4 LIFE!!

[massillon catholic]

We would have a great staff just taking former tiger players coaching around the state!! Just bring them home! I loved it when I played in the late 80's---90% of our coaches played for the tigers and wanted nothing else but to be great position coaches--Lectivitis, Wells, James, Whitfield, Jarvis, V, etc,... TIGERS 4 LIFE!!


I agree 100%!!!!!!!

[austinsm11]

Exactly right. Too many coaches that were either Head Coaches or Coordinators. Now, they are position coaches. This could be able major issue for Stacy to handle, along with the players.

When I heard of all the coaches coming I wondered this as well. I guess we will wait and see.

[TROCK9901]

First--- I never, ever doubted JT's ability to play corner. He is probably the most ahtletic player on the team and can play EVERY skill position we have. I said he would be better at safety because teams are just going to throw away from him in gameplans!! He will be wasted when the season starts by game 3. Every scout knows who Massey will not challange him often that is why Stacy put JT at the other corner--I have alot of foootball sense and definitely understand why and safety may be is natural position. However we have a former OLB playing free safety and that is alot to ask when JT has been at that position since junior high school and knows his roll. I just hope the move works out and Pettis makes the adjustments. The scenerio is the same as playing Daily at OLB last year and teams just ran the other way--simple coaching adjustments. Secure the middle of the field 1st with Dline, safeties and LB's and work out. Pettis and Hildreth are physical players but I doubt with the linebackers we have this year that our safeties will have to play 4 yards off the ball like in 06.

I am not in total disagreement with you Monte. I am sure JT would make a fine safety (and probably will be moved back there next year). Wasted however, I don't agree with that. I believe when you have two shutdown corners (ex: Ellis and James/05 & Relford and Ballard/02) it allows defenses to be more aggressive because they have the confidence in those guys out on an island. Teams throw away from him then they throw to Massey's side. I'll take that. I think Pettis is definitely more of a safety than LB IMO. He has 4.4 speed and again IMO is a more aggressive tackler. I believe it will come to him in time. Again, my main point is I see it as how do they get the best players on the field? Hildreth and Pettis IMO are not corners so to me the right move is Turner to corner. However, this is a good debate to have and I hope it works out.

[TROCK9901]

Monte: I couldn't have said it any better. Turner will be wasted at corner. He's a safety and TB. Don't be surprised if he isnt the TB by the 2nd game. KJ is a great physical speciman, but he is injury prone and fumble prone. Hopefully, he avoids both this year and has a great season. The reason Gamble had so much action on D was because at Safety. Had Gamble been at corner the teams would have ran and thrown away from him, just like they did with Dailey. I'm still puzzled by the move to put Dailey on the outside and never even consider a change to the inside.
Turner is being asked to change postions on both offense and defense. TB to WR and Safety to Corner. Both of which he will be less involved in the action, it makes no sense to me.

MC, was Ellis and Relford wasted at corner when they had like 12 interceptions a piece when they played there. And I believe Ellis was a safety first and then moved to corner. As I said in my previous post to Monte, I will take a safety with 4.4 speed and from what I have seen in JV ball and varsity special teams a pretty good tackler at the safety position. My question to you; if you move Turner back to safety, where do you put Pettis or Hildreth? I don't see either having enough athleticism to play corner. Even though Pettis has that great speed, IMO you need great feet and athletic ability to play corner as well, and I feel JT has that. So wasted, not in my eyes at all.

[Obie Wan]

You could look at it this way: suppose one kid is a 10 as a safety and a 9 as a CB. Suppose another kid is 8 as a safety and a 6 as a CB.

Where do you play them?

As pointed out earlier, throwing away from Turner means throwing at Massey. I'm not sure that's going to prove a sound strategy. It could well be that we see a lot of underneath patterns and what-not to receivers that aren't covered by either one of them. In other words, teams might throw away from both of them.

[TROCK9901]

We would have a great staff just taking former tiger players coaching around the state!! Just bring them home! I loved it when I played in the late 80's---90% of our coaches played for the tigers and wanted nothing else but to be great position coaches--Lectivitis, Wells, James, Whitfield, Jarvis, V, etc,... TIGERS 4 LIFE!!

Jarvis did not gradute or play for Massillon.

How many ex-tigers are presently on the staff?

Harig, Hackenbracht, Weber, Pachis, Strawder, Carpenter, Marshall, Partridge?? (Var)

Menches, Simpson, Spicer (Frosh)

About 10, not to bad IMO. And I believe all are paid except Marshall and Carpenter

[tigerjoe]

Too many of these comments on this thread promote "the athlete" first mentality instead of the Team concept. In a football team -as in business management, the most effective team will be following the stategy of the CEO or Head Coach. As for disagreements on the coaching staff, I would expect that there would be managable differences that will be best settled now than in the heat of the season. The staff selected has unimpeachable credentials for high school coaches. In conclusion, some of you folks need to get over yourselves and let our coaches coach. To be a sideliner you need to put TEAM first.

[Benchboss1]

What in the world are the people that think Turner should be at tailback over Torrence thinking? When you have one of the best running backs in the state playing for you, who has a full ride to a major division one college under his belt, you HAVE to give him the ball!!

Turner is a very good back, but based on last year, he is not on the same plane as Torrence as a running back.

[MRR55]

Benchboss1, please, please, please dont tell me that you think Devoe is a better running back than turner by that much, or if he is even better! have you ever whatched justin play? this kid has ripped up every level he has played at! dude get real! in not putting devoe down or trying to hype justin up, justin will do that himself, but these 2 are the same caliber player. 7 on 7's dont mean much but turner made more plays than torrence on both sides of the ball. get Justin Turner the Ball Tom Stacy!!

[tiger#22]

Benchboss1, please, please, please dont tell me that you think Devoe is a better running back than turner by that much, or if he is even better! have you ever whatched justin play? this kid has ripped up every level he has played at! dude get real! in not putting devoe down or trying to hype justin up, justin will do that himself, but these 2 are the same caliber player. 7 on 7's dont mean much but turner made more plays than torrence on both sides of the ball. get Justin Turner the Ball Tom Stacy!!

Right now Devoe is better, by the end of the year I hope we are all saying it is amazing how close in talent all 3 players are (Herring included) and how it is pick your poison for the opposing D.
TIG!!

[CarlE]

Right now Devoe is better, by the end of the year I hope we are all saying it is amazing how close in talent all 3 players are (Herring included) and how it is pick your poison for the opposing D.
TIG!!

Agreed. Can we quit promoting dissention; even if it's among ourselves and start providing encouragement for everyone. I sense some petty jealously already for our transfer that has come in, and I just don't think it's fair. Let's get behind ALL these guys, OK?

[massillon catholic]

[QUOTE=TROCK9901;62418] My question to you; if you move Turner back to safety, where do you put Pettis or Hildreth?

IMO, I would put Turner and Hildreth at Safety, Massey and Pettis at Corner.

[massillon catholic]

[QUOTE=TROCK9901;62416 I Teams throw away from him then they throw to Massey's side.



According to Monte, Massey will be a top corner in the state this year. I'm basing my move on Monte's evaluation.

[massillon catholic]

What in the world are the people that think Turner should be at tailback over Torrence thinking? When you have one of the best running backs in the state playing for you, who has a full ride to a major division one college under his belt, you HAVE to give him the ball!!

Turner is a very good back, but based on last year, he is not on the same plane as Torrence as a running back.

Based on last year, Torrence played in the NBC!! And, has never faced the speed he will face this year. He may be as good as advertised, but so is Turner, who will also be receiving plenty of D-I offers

[massillon catholic]

Too many of these comments on this thread promote "the athlete" first mentality instead of the Team concept. In a football team -as in business management, the most effective team will be following the stategy of the CEO or Head Coach. As for disagreements on the coaching staff, I would expect that there would be managable differences that will be best settled now than in the heat of the season. The staff selected has unimpeachable credentials for high school coaches. In conclusion, some of you folks need to get over yourselves and let our coaches coach. To be a sideliner you need to put TEAM first.


Well Coach, from what I've seen and heard, you have your work cut out for you. I certainly wish you and the team the best. And, I am glad to see these problems cropping up now and not in the middle or end of the year. When there is this much talent on the field, both coaching and players, there will be issues. I trust that you and the staff will get it done and bring home a State Title.:tig:

[hitman]

Based on last year, Torrence played in the NBC!! And, has never faced the speed he will face this year. He may be as good as advertised, but so is Turner, who will also be receiving plenty of D-I offers


True, Mentor, Iggy, Harding, Solon, McKinley are a tad better than West Branch, Marlington, Carrollton, etc.........