Fireworks Sparked Blaze That Destroyed Massillon Homes, Cars

[obie7661]

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/13616275/detail.html

http://www.newsnet5.com/2007/0703/13616331_240X180.jpg

[jobdone]

The Independent had the proper instructions for shooting fireworks on the page opposite the editorial page on Monday July 2nd. Nowhere did it mention that shooting fireworks in Ohio is ILLEGAL!

The Demmer family owned the garage and the two houses behind the Tremont Hardware that were destroyed.

Can you say "lawsuit" against the Independent?

[section3]

maybe city council should think about changing the fireworks ordinance to more than a misdemeanor when damage occurs, even billing them for all the man hours, water, and overtime involved, instead of worrying about front yard parking. i wonder if the message has been passed down to the police to crack down harder on the fireworks instead of just a warning. i guess if your an arsonist and get caught all you have to do is say you were shooting of fireworks??

[tiger51]

maybe city council should think about changing the fireworks ordinance to more than a misdemeanor when damage occurs, even billing them for all the man hours, water, and overtime involved, instead of worrying about front yard parking. i wonder if the message has been passed down to the police to crack down harder on the fireworks instead of just a warning. i guess if your an arsonist and get caught all you have to do is say you were shooting of fireworks??


I know I called the police last night on a jack ass lighting them off at midnight last night...and they came out and that was the end of that situation...I mean it is one thing if you do them on the 4th but to do them 2 days before and at midnight with a constant whistling and explosion it is unsafe and annoying...Had my 6 month up and crying for the entire hour that they were going off....and they were doing them right between 2 houses...."YEAH THAT IS SAFE"....

[section3]

i know when i was a kid we got busted for shooting fireworks off and the police took our fireworks, threw us in the car, took us to our houses and told us to turn over all the fireworks we had and didn't want to see us for the rest of the summer. i know that guy had a sweet fireworks display that year.

[Kamd50]

Wow, that is so scary. I just watched the home video of the fire. That woman could have been burnt even worse than she was or there could have been small children injured or even worse trapped in a burning home. Not to mention the loss of people's homes and cars now.

I worry about this crap every year, whether my house is going to get burned down by fireworks that are set off in my neighborhood on all sides of our house. And it doesn't end until the end of summer. Anybody with any common sense should know better than to be setting this stuff off around people's homes. I'm sorry, accidental or not, a misdemeanor? The laws definately need to be changed!

What I don't understand is why everybody and their brother is allowed to sale these things but it is illegal to set them off. If it is not against the law to set them off in the city, somebody please clarify for me. I guarantee you that I am going to be doing a lot of reporting this year. I have never done so in the past, but I don't want the next burnt down house on the front page of the paper to be mine or have my children suffer severe burns because of someone's carelessness.

[Seeker]

Tonite we had some guys shooting bottle rockets at houses on our street.
The police were called, and caught them red-handed.

Apparently all they did was warn them and tell them to clean up the mess.

Thirty minutes later they were back out doing it again.

You would think that after last night the police would be handling things a little more sternly.

I guess not.

A few of my neighbors have had a few beers. They are going to take care of things themselves.

I suppose we'll be reading about them tomorrow.

[jobdone]

I hate to mention it, but we have some lazy-ass cops in this city. There are good ones but the deadbeats seem to be taking over. Since when does a cop say he is not going to enforce rules against fireworks and parking in the front yards. The tail is wagging the dog again.

[Spize]

Massillon cops are just fine, Canton cops on the other hand...

Yes, this was a tragedy that fireworks burnt down a house. However for the most part they don't cause a problem. Cigarettes probably play a larger role in house fires in this city than a firecracker ever. Fireworks will continue to be purchased and lit in ohio. It is an unfortunate things that happened, but frankly there are much more important things to worry about.

P.S. I loved the Canton cops last night at the fireworks in Canton that were too busy chasing down glow stick vendors that they forgot to do a traffic patrol at 12th street where everyone was trying to cross from one half of the park to the other half where they parked... as I was walking I watch about 2 people almost get hit by cars in the crosswalk and another lady almost had her baby and stroller crushed by a truck coming around that tight turn down that hill... I guess the 4 cops busting a guy with glowsticks was more important than that... right?

[Marie]

Video coverage of the fire
http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=3673323&version=1&locale=EN-US

[section3]

Yes, this was a tragedy that fireworks burnt down a house. However for the most part they don't cause a problem. Cigarettes probably play a larger role in house fires in this city than a firecracker ever. Fireworks will continue to be purchased and lit in ohio. It is an unfortunate things that happened, but frankly there are much more important things to worry about.



Yea and alot of people drink and drive knowing its illegal but i mean really how often does someone get hurt?? as far as the cigarettes, come on, i do not know of anyone whose house caught on fire by someone else throwing a cigarette at it. this is not a situation where someone caught their own house on fire.

[Marie]

Yes, this was a tragedy that fireworks burnt down a house. However for the most part they don't cause a problem. Cigarettes probably play a larger role in house fires in this city than a firecracker ever. Fireworks will continue to be purchased and lit in ohio. It is an unfortunate things that happened, but frankly there are much more important things to worry about.



Yea and alot of people drink and drive knowing its illegal but i mean really how often does someone get hurt?? as far as the cigarettes, come on, i do not know of anyone whose house caught on fire by someone else throwing a cigarette at it. this is not a situation where someone caught their own house on fire.

I don't think the people who lost everything would agree that there are more important things to worry about.

[The Voice]

Based on the comment about cigerettes; I beg to differ; One of the leading causes of housefires ARE from cigerettes. The fireworks issue could spark many different opinions. Hey Woody; any opinion on this one ?

tv

[austinsm11]

Based on the comment about cigerettes; I beg to differ; One of the leading causes of housefires ARE from cigerettes. The fireworks issue could spark many different opinions. Hey Woody; any opinion on this one ?

tv

I think that part of what section 3 was saying is that cigarettes cause fires from the homeowner's own negligence (or friend/relative). I've never heard of someone throwing a cigarette (random stranger walking down the street)into someone else's yard and it catching the yard/house on fire.

[section3]

marie

the first paragraph on my post was from spize's post. i guess i didn't cut and paste that very well, about the house fire not being a big deal.

voice,

i'm not saying cigarettes do not start fires, but if you read my post, i do not know of cigarettes starting someone elses house fire. just as this one started by fireworks wasn't even his house. actually i would bet candles and stoves cause more fires than cigarettes. fyrewood might have those kinds of details.

[austinsm11]

I will say that my dad has been extremely LUCKY to have not caught the house on fire. He falls asleep all the time with a cigarette in his mouth. Most of his shirts and some of his pants have burn holes on them from the cigarette falling out. There are even several burn marks in his recliner. We have talked to him about it but never get anywhere with him.

[massillon catholic]

Based on the comment about cigerettes; I beg to differ; One of the leading causes of housefires ARE from cigerettes. The fireworks issue could spark many different opinions. Hey Woody; any opinion on this one ?

tv

Wouldn't that stat be a little flawed since people smoke several cigarettes a day in their homes everyday of the year and fireworks are generally only set-off three-four days of the year?

[MassillonMom]

Hey, why isn't anyone saying anything about our fellow MassillonProud member Matt Demmer and that he lost everything he had in the fire?

Should we start a collection or something?


Wonder if he had any type of rental insurance?

He's only in his mid-20's and could probably use our help since he "has only the clothes on his back, his truck and things he had in his truck", according to his quote in the Inde.

Hope his whs yearbooks, etc, weren't burned up and he had his old school keepsakes stored at his parents' house.

We all feel bad for you, Matt....:sad:

[The Voice]

Saw him last night; Said he will be staying with his parents; He certainly was out of sorts, and frankly, I can't blame him.

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[Fats]

I know the Hall family, their grandson and my daughter have baby and it is a tragedy what happen. Just glad they got out of the house safe. Their dog woke up the family and probably saved their lives. They lost everything. My daughter has placed donation cans in some of the businesses around town, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Bambo]

Many of you know Demmer from the tailgates. Although he just recently joined the site, he has been going to the tailgates and hanging out with the members of MP for as long as MTown and myself. For those of you who don't know Demmer, he is the type of person that would give the only shirt he had left that night off his back to someone who needed it.

Matt is doing good considering the circumstances. He has spent the last two days with his family, as well as MTown and myself, keeping busy. A lot of people have already stepped up to help and its been great to see. Obiefan, thanks for setting that up.

I personally don't know the Hall family, but I am sure they too are having a tough time dealing with this. It's extremly lucky that Matt was out that evening with us and the Hall family dog woke them up in time.

Thanks to everyone who has helped out in whatever way they were able. Thanks to the Fire Department for doing a great job. I don't believe Matt will be able to check the website for the next few days but I am sure he appreciates everyone's thoughts.

[longtimefirsttime]

"Block party turns into benefit for SW families"
http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=17923&r=0&Category=

I agree with Bambo that Demmer is a great guy. He is quiet and I doubt he'd ever ask for help. Any amount would be helpful.

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

Many of you know Demmer from the tailgates. Although he just recently joined the site, he has been going to the tailgates and hanging out with the members of MP for as long as MTown and myself. For those of you who don't know Demmer, he is the type of person that would give the only shirt he had left that night off his back to someone who needed it.

Matt is doing good considering the circumstances. He has spent the last two days with his family, as well as MTown and myself, keeping busy. A lot of people have already stepped up to help and its been great to see. Obiefan, thanks for setting that up.

I personally don't know the Hall family, but I am sure they too are having a tough time dealing with this. It's extremly lucky that Matt was out that evening with us and the Hall family dog woke them up in time.

Thanks to everyone who has helped out in whatever way they were able. Thanks to the Fire Department for doing a great job. I don't believe Matt will be able to check the website for the next few days but I am sure he appreciates everyone's thoughts.

Bambo,

I am sorry to hear about the fire. It should have never happened. Demmer is a great person and has always possessed a glowing presence wherever he is.

My thoughts and prayers to Demmer. It's a shame something like that had to happen.

[TigerLily]

What a tragic happening. I thank the Lord that Matt Demmer and the Hall family came out of this.

Not only were these homes destroyed, but all of the memories that they contained. And, these were historic homes, not only in age but in all of the past that was lived there. And all of those records of the store and memoribila that was lost -- you can never get back.

Last night when I heard all of the stuff shooting around our home, I could only hope and pray that nothing would land on anyone's roof.

These fireworks are just way too easy to get. Just sign a worthless piece of paper saying you are going to use them in another state and it is O.K. When we were young you could not get your hands one them. The only way we even saw a firecracker was when we went to Canada, and then the guys would to go get them at a Chinese restaurant and they brought them out from a backroom. They would just light them and mostly just throw them out over the river. (Not to say that this was even right).

My little grandson got his finger burnt pretty bad Tuesday night when they were using sparklers. Those can be really dangerous too.

My prayers go out to Matt and the Hall family that they are able to recover and get their lives back together again.

[CrazyMTfan]

I gave at a July 4th get together on Tuesday along with some others. LTFT is also gathering up some clothing and other articles.

[fyrewood]

Wow,

I had no idea while I was there at the fire that this was Demmer's apartment. That was the house I was assigned to during the fire...Not sure what was in the garage that the bottle rocket flew into, but all three buildings were already burning when we got there (most of the roof on Demmer's house was already gone) and we had a heck of a time getting the fire out in that garage. We also had a natural gas line burst on Demmer's house that caused us problems getting the fire out...

Matt, my condolences, I wish there was more we could have done.

It's so stupid that a person was injured and people's lives were affected all because of the careless use of ILLEGAL fireworks.

[Kamd50]

So true. Someone try and tell me why our police that are on duty in the evenings do not try to put an end to this? I mean what could be easier? All they have to do is drive around the city's neighborhoods to see who is setting them off. It's not like they would have to track them down or chase them or anything. People all around me have been firing them off from their backyards and even right in the middle of the streets.

Let's fact it, it's not like they are so busy chasing down criminals or something all night long. And like Seeker, I know people who called the police and they didn't even take their illegal fireworks away from them. Wouldn't you think that in light of what happened, that they would be doing everything humanly possible to prevent such another senseless tragedy like this? I bet they would be more vigilant if it was one of their own homes that got burnt down. Maybe next time, it will be even worse and someone will lose their life, God forbid.

[Seeker]

Here's one of the difficulties:

There are small, relatively tame fireworks that are legal.
The rule is that someone over 18 has to be present.

The people that are shooting off the illegal ones also have the innocent ones on hand.
They keep their stash of the illegal fireworks out of site.
When the cops show up, they tell them that they are shooting off the legal ones, and the neighbors are just being jumpy about it.

Maybe the cops will get smarter.
Maybe not.

[austinsm11]

What kind of firworks are legal in Ohio? I thought it was just sparklers, snakes, snappers, smoke bombs, etc.

[Seeker]

What kind of firworks are legal in Ohio? I thought it was just sparklers, snakes, snappers, smoke bombs, etc.

I think that covers it.

But they make noise, smoke and give off light.

[section3]

news reports are saying a fireman from cleveland took matters into his own hands and killed 3 and wounded 2 neighbor kids over their fireworks.

[DragonTigerNemesis]

news reports are saying a fireman from cleveland took matters into his own hands and killed 3 and wounded 2 neighbor kids over their fireworks.


That is true.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that if the police won't do anything, people will take the law into their own hands.

(Don't blame me and get all whacked out at me, blame God, it's human nature.)

Hey Massillon Cops---you paying any attention to this?


:kungfu:

[longtimefirsttime]

"Teenager charged, fined for fireworks"
http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=17974&r=0&Category=5

[longtimefirsttime]

"Families sift through the rubble days after a devastating blaze"
http://www.indeonline.com/index.php?ID=17969&r=0&Category=

[section3]

another great job of proofreading an article by the inde. that must have been one heck of a bottle rocket to reach that garage from longfellow. also another example of dispatchers that aren't familiar with the area they dispatch for. the caller could have said right by demmers hardware and they could of had no clue where that was since their office is in jackson township and who knows where they reside.

[longtimefirsttime]

The RED Center dispatches for multiple departments. It's possible that the calls were coming in on cell phones. It is my understanding that Stark County has not yet completed its enhanced 911 system. When someone calls from a land line, information like your address (with city) and phone number come up. In many areas of the country, information is also available for cell phones. We're slightly behind in our region, even though the phone companies have been collecting these fees for years. That being said, I would hope that most people would know where Demmer Hardware is or would be able to quickly ascertain the general area.

[longtimefirsttime]

another great job of proofreading an article by the inde. that must have been one heck of a bottle rocket to reach that garage from longfellow.


Yes unless it was a SCUD, that's an impossibility. A definite typo.

[DAWGH8R]

Par for the course !!!

[MTigers006]

I had purchased some fireworks, but after this incident I got rid of them.
I wish the best for all affected. I am gonna see where and how I can help out. That is one of the best things about this city is we Tigers stick together.

I hope this also gets some pressure put on whoever is responcible for getting the Tremont Viduct completed finished.

Also this isnt the only time the RED center or whomever couldnt get the location of a fire correct. Remember the fire by Longfellow at the apartment complex last year?

Thank god noone was killed that night and it was right of the kid to do the right thing and turn himself in and admit fault.

Anyways, Hats off to The City of Massillon Fire Department. You guys did yet another excellent job and kept a terrible situation from getting much worse. I have heard you guys had your hands full that night. Again, Great job as always and thankyou for everything you do everyday.

[DAWGH8R]

They didn't even get the:

MASSILLON FOOTBALL PLAYER CAUSES INFERNO !!!!!!!!

dig in this time !! They are slipping !!:evil:

[MassillonMom]

And his mom works for a local attorney!

[Kamd50]

A $100 fine for destroying two people's homes , 3 cars, and causing burns to that woman? You have got to be kidding me! The laws are flawed enough as it is, but to not even get the maximum fine for this is a slap in the face to the victims who lost everything.And the community service hours should have been at least double of what he was given. I am absolutely shocked at this shit. I don't care who he is.

[DragonTigerNemesis]

A $100 fine for destroying two people's homes , 3 cars, and causing burns to that woman? You have got to be kidding me! The laws are flawed enough as it is, but to not even get the maximum fine for this is a slap in the face to the victims who lost everything.And the community service hours should have been at least double of what he was given. I am absolutely shocked at this shit. I don't care who he is.

Right now I don't know who I'm more furious with, the effin' idiot kid, the lame-ass fire captain or the "visiting" judge.

If this Briggs kid moves ANYWHERE near me and my family, I will visit his home with a baseball bat and give him one week to get the eff out of my neighborhood or I'll break every bone in his body.

If he shows up at a party at my house, I will PERSONALLY beat the hell out of the jackass---and gladly do the time and pay the fine.

I hope he leaves town and NEVER returns.

We don't need scum, trash, assholes like him in our town!

I CAN'T believe that anyone would try to give him credit for "manning up" to what he did. HE'S NOT ELEVEN, HE'S A FULL GROWN ADULT, and a dangerous, sociopath one at that.

What he did DOES NOT qualify as an "accident".



:mad:

[austinsm11]

Wow. Pretty strong post. I guess that I or any other teenager or young adult would not want to live next to you from the stupid stunts we have all pulled as teenagers/young adults.

I don't know the kid who did it or his personality or anything. I really don't know the full situation either.

Was he purposefully trying to shoot fireworks at someone or something? It seems to me like an accident. He wasn't thinking. I don't know for sure, but I doubt he said to himself, "I wonder what building I can hit with these fireworks and burn down."


How many of us have shot off illegal fireworks in our younger days? I bet most of us. How many of us have done illegal things in our younger days without thinking?


If this Briggs kid moves ANYWHERE near me and my family, I will visit his home with a baseball bat and give him one week to get the eff out of my neighborhood or I'll break every bone in his body.

If he shows up at a party at my house, I will PERSONALLY beat the hell out of the jackass---and gladly do the time and pay the fine.

I'm glad no one decided to do this to you over any of the silly mistakes you may have made as a teen/young adult.

[DragonTigerNemesis]

I'm glad no one decided to do this to you over any of the silly mistakes you may have made as a teen/young adult.

This post is as namby pamby and lame as the fire captain and judge's comments.

This was not a "silly mistake".

It was blatant disregard for human life and personal property!

If I had done something this bad when I was 19, I would have expected to go to jail, have to pay restitution, and also likely get the crap beat out of me by the family and friends of the peoples whose lives where so irresponsibly thrown into upheaval.

This is the HUGE problem in society today, criminals have NO FEAR of authority, or anyone else for that matter.

Your post is big talk, but tell me how you would feel if all YOUR personal memories and mementos were destroyed by an irresponsible jackass.

:furious:

[austinsm11]

This post is as namby pamby and lame as the fire captain and judge's comments.

This was not a "silly mistake".

It was blatant disregard for human life and personal property!

If I had done something this bad when I was 19, I would have expected to go to jail, have to pay restitution, and also likely get the crap beat out of me by the family and friends of the peoples whose lives where so irresponsibly thrown into upheaval.

This is the HUGE problem in society today, criminals have NO FEAR of authority, or anyone else for that matter.

Your post is big talk, but tell me how you would feel if all YOUR personal memories and mementos were destroyed by an irresponsible jackass.

:furious:


I would be upset and mad as hell. But I'm not going to "act" all tough and go beat up a 19 year old. It was an accident. I would thank God nobody was hurt and hope that this 19 year old, as well as many others around the area, learned how dangerous they can be. You are no better than he is if you are going to do that.

The joke is how Ohio deals with fireworks. Making them legal to buy but illegal to set off doesn't really show people how danderous they can be. I will agree that I thought the $100 fine should have been higher. Cops not doing anything when contacted is also a joke.

What jail are you going to keep all of these fireworks violators in? We can keep them locked up with all of the 1st time DUI offenders. They usually serve jail time, don't they?

How many times have you or a friend you were with set off fireworks? I honestly answered your question, so honestly answer mine.

[The Voice]

Criminals have no fear of authority; this I agree with, However, GIMME A BREAK, The kids not a criminal. This wasn't intentional; it was a tragic accident that wouldn't have happened if OHIO lawmakers would get this crap straightened out. EVERYBODY was shootng off fireworks Wednesday night!

tv

[austinsm11]

EVERYBODY was shootng off fireworks Wednesday night!

tv

I hope that wasn't an admission by you. Otherwise jail is the least damaging thing you have to worry about b/c DTN will be coming for you.

:doh2:

[The Voice]

watcha gonna do when they come for you..bad boy.. :Oo:

tv

[Seeker]

I love this quote from the newspaper article:

"Layne said Briggs and his father showed up in court Thursday morning and said they wanted to get the matter settled."

Yea, I imagine they did.
Too bad the family's lives they destroyed won't find it so easy to get things settled.

It may have been an accident, but it was an accident that happened while he was committing a crime.
In my book, that means he should have been forced to pay a much higher penalty than he did.

They could have used him as an example to stop others from shooting off rockets in congested neighborhoods. Maybe if he had at least gotten 30 days in jail, others might think twice about endangering people and their property.

[Spize]

Criminals have no fear of authority; this I agree with, However, GIMME A BREAK, The kids not a criminal. This wasn't intentional; it was a tragic accident that wouldn't have happened if OHIO lawmakers would get this crap straightened out. EVERYBODY was shootng off fireworks Wednesday night!

tv

While they are at it, they need to ban...

Cars
Airplanes
bicycles
cigarettes
matches
lamps
untied shoelaces
skates
skateboards
ect..

According to your logic they need to ban everything a human can possibly have an accident while using. It was clear that there was no intent here, it is very unfortunate what happened, but it was what it was, an accident. Like I said earlier, there are other things that cause tragic accidents that are far more prevalant than fireworks. I am sorry to hear what happened happened, but did you want them to do, go around arresting everyone with a bottle rocket on the 4th of July?

[Spize]

I love this quote from the newspaper article:

"Layne said Briggs and his father showed up in court Thursday morning and said they wanted to get the matter settled."

Yea, I imagine they did.
Too bad the family's lives they destroyed won't find it so easy to get things settled.

It may have been an accident, but it was an accident that happened while he was committing a crime.
In my book, that means he should have been forced to pay a much higher penalty than he did.

They could have used him as an example to stop others from shooting off rockets in congested neighborhoods. Maybe if he had at least gotten 30 days in jail, others might think twice about endangering people and their property.


Are you kidding me? Let's hang the kid because of someting that happened accidentally? Holy witch hunt! They charged him with the law he broke, done. It sucks for Demmer and the family that lost their stuff, it is a fluke accident. You and me have a better chance of getting in a car accident than you do having this kind of accident happenng again.

[Seeker]

...did you want them to do, go around arresting everyone with a bottle rocket on the 4th of July?


Yes.


:vconst:

[Seeker]

Are you kidding me? Let's hang the kid because of someting that happened accidentally? Holy witch hunt! They charged him with the law he broke, done. It sucks for Demmer and the family that lost their stuff, it is a fluke accident. You and me have a better chance of getting in a car accident than you do having this kind of accident happenng again.

Why are you comparing it to a car accident?
Unless I'm driving impaired, the comparison is apple and oranges.

As far as the "rarity" of the incident, here are the stats from 2002:

"WASHINGTON, D.C. - An estimated 23,200 fireworks fires in 2002 caused approximately $35 million in property loss and almost 60 percent of those fires occur during the month of July around the Independence Day holiday, according to a new report from the Department of Homeland Security."


Why do you people insist on downplaying this?

It was not an innocent accident!

[austinsm11]

They could have used him as an example to stop others from shooting off rockets in congested neighborhoods. Maybe if he had at least gotten 30 days in jail, others might think twice about endangering people and their property.

What does a first time DUI offender get? I don't really know for sure, but it seems like generally the jail time is suspended. So why would shooting fireworks carry a heavier sentence?

[Seeker]

FYI.

In Glendale, CA on July 4th a 22 year-old was playing with fireworks near a garage.
He started a fire that burned down four appartment units.

He has been booked for FELONY ARSON.

For once the people in LA LA land have their heads on better than we do.

[DragonTigerNemesis]

Criminals have no fear of authority; this I agree with, However, GIMME A BREAK, The kids not a criminal. This wasn't intentional; it was a tragic accident that wouldn't have happened if OHIO lawmakers would get this crap straightened out. EVERYBODY was shootng off fireworks Wednesday night!

tv


I'm sorry, but this post reaks of social irresponsibilty.
(Kind of like ones I've seen in the past about how it's OK to let a cat wander loose to poop and spray all over the neighborhood and go in people's garages and walk all over their cars.)

Not EVERYBODY was shooting off fireworks on the 4th.
IMO, it was actually a very small percentage of people doing it.
Some of us with children chose to NOT set an example for them of breaking the law, just because many others were.
That's like saying "EVERYBODY" gets drunk and drives home on New Year's Eve, so its just a "tragic accident" if one of them causes major damage or injury.

It's not the lawmakers' job to straighten anything out.
It's the citizens' job to insist on enforcement and that the penalties are meeted out as they fit the crime.
And yes, the "kid" as you call him, is a criminal.

I think its time for the citizens of Massillon to start digging into the relationship between Briggs and the fire captain that couldn't seem to find a way to charge him with arson, voluntary or involuntary.
Are they related?
Did he go to school with the "kid's" father?

There's a reason this act is essentially going unpunished.

:kungfu:

[austinsm11]

I'm sorry, but this post reaks of social irresponsibilty.


Kinda like beating up a 19 year old who made a mistake?

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

Kamd50,

You show some pretty strong emotion and I don't blame you for how you feel about the whole case.

DragonTigerNemesis,

I can understand and respect how upset you are over this...but to say what you posted I think is wrong. I don't like how it happened myself. If you really want to do that, fine with me but first I think you better step back and think about what you are saying...unless it has gotten to the point where you're in a don't-push-me mode to the point where you can't be controlled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vle6QTOai20).

On a side note, I don't even condone people shooting off fireworks after hours, especially how people can easily mistake fireworks for gunshots in this day and age.

[section3]

i'm going to call and cancel my car insurance today because after all, if i hit someone on the road, its not criminal intent its only an accident and i had no intentions of doing any damage to someone elses property.

[Seeker]

i'm going to call and cancel my car insurance today because after all, if i hit someone on the road, its not criminal intent its only an accident and i had no intentions of doing any damage to someone elses property.

Please!

This is the difference that people can't seem to grasp.

If you are driving your car legally and have an accident, it is totally different from having an "accident" while you are involved in an activity that you know is illegal, yet made the choice to engage in anyway.

[austinsm11]

Please!

This is the difference that people can't seem to grasp.

If you are driving your car legally and have an accident, it is totally different from having an "accident" while you are involved in an activity that you know is illegal, yet made the choice to engage in anyway.

For most drivers, isn't driving without insurance illegal?

[Kamd50]

FWIW, this was NO little firework or bottlerocket like the one the officer or fireman is shown holding in the video clip attatched to the home video of the fire that was shown newsnet5. And it was irresponsible. It isn't like he was some little kid that didn't understand the dangers. For God's sake, if a 19 yr old that graduated last year doesn't have enough common sense to know he was doing something dangerous in a neighborhood surrounded by occupied houses, then he has a very serious problem. BS! What if Demmer would have been home asleep upstairs in that house? He might not have made it out alive, for God's sake people.

I agree not "everyone" was shooting off fireworks. We have an almost 15yr old son that begs us every year to take him to go buy them so he can shoot them off with his friends, and every year we tell him NO! If he wants to see fireworks he can go to see them where trained people and firefighters are on hand to control the situation.:stars:

[DragonTigerNemesis]

Kinda like beating up a 19 year old who made a mistake?

You should be a spin doctor for a living, the way you like to downplay things.

He did not "make a mistake."
A 15 year-old girl who gets pregnant by her boyfriend made a "mistake."

This ADULT, chose to violate the law with dire consequences.

As far as the beating up stuff goes---

First off, don't confuse social irresponsibility with vigilante justice.

Secondly, the kids are saying that he is going to parties, smirking about it and acting like its no big deal.
What I meant was, if he comes to my home and acts like that, I will lose it on his smirking, criminal irresponsible ass.
Get it now?

[TigerBuckeye313]

It seems to me that alot of people have forgotten that he TURNED HIMSELF IN! I know that doesn't make it right and it's not going to bring back the destroyed homes, but at least he came forward and took responsibility. It's not like he opened the garage door and shot the rocket right in.

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.

:stars:


DTN: Go ahead and take the law into your own hands. See how well that works out......

[austinsm11]

For God's sake, if a 19 yr old that graduated last year doesn't have enough common sense to know he was doing something dangerous in a neighborhood surrounded by occupied houses, then he has a very serious problem. BS!

I agree not "everyone" was shooting off fireworks. We have an almost 15yr old son that begs us every year to take him to go buy them so he can shoot them off with his friends, and every year we tell him NO! If he wants to see fireworks he can go to see them where trained people and firefighters are on hand to control the situation.:stars:

19 is still an age where most people are still growing up and common sense takes a back seat at times. If you don't believe that, go to any college dorm.

BTW, do you turn in your son's friends who shoot off the fireworks?

[austinsm11]

DTN: Go ahead and take the law into your own hands. See how well that works out......

I guess he didn't read about the Cleveland fireman who took the law into his own hands. Guess where he is now?

Some of us with children chose to NOT set an example for them of breaking the law, just because many others were.
I guess it is also not illegal to go beat up a 19 year and face jail time over an accident that your children will witness, or at the very least not have daddy around for awhile.

[Spize]

Please!

This is the difference that people can't seem to grasp.

If you are driving your car legally and have an accident, it is totally different from having an "accident" while you are involved in an activity that you know is illegal, yet made the choice to engage in anyway.

Because no car accident is ever caused by someone doing one of the minor illegalities you do on the road every day, right?

[Kamd50]

I am well aware of how kids are having a 26, 23, 18, and almost 15 yr old.

If and when my son's friends set them off around my neighborhood I went out and told them to knock it off, someone's homes got burnt down, are they trying to burn down someone else's house, and warned them that, yes, I would call the cops if they didn't stop. And, my son was not allowed to be around them when they did it. I don't know about most people, but I am not going to be a hypocrit when I tell my kids they can't do something. And if my kid sneaks or w/e behind my back and does something that we forbid, yes there will be consequences for him to face and he knows it.

Too many damn people have this lame attitude of "everybody's doing it" crap. Since when did that become an excuse for not disciplining your kids? No freaking wonder so many of them are so damn screwed up and irresponsible.

[Spize]

You should be a spin doctor for a living, the way you like to downplay things.

He did not "make a mistake."
A 15 year-old girl who gets pregnant by her boyfriend made a "mistake."



Actually someone having sex with a 15 year old is a far greater offense, by the laws on the books, than lighting a firework. Besides, I wouldn't call anyone getting pregnant an accident, after all pregnancy is a well known side effect of sex.

[DragonTigerNemesis]

19 is still an age where most people are still growing up and common sense takes a back seat at times. If you don't believe that, go to any college dorm.

That's why there are laws, and if people break them they are to be punished. It is to stop the others from breaking the same laws.



BTW, do you turn in your son's friends who shoot off the fireworks?

Thank you for asking.
If fact, my best friends two kids were three houses away from our's on Tuesday night shooting rockets that were hitting the neighbors' houses.
We called the police, stood on the sidewalk until they showed up, and pointed out where my friend's one kid was hiding with the rockets.

Apparently Cutts' friend used your line of thinking when she decided to help him hide Jesse's body.

[Spize]

Perhaps instead of a half-arsed ban on fireworks they should have a designated spot where people can set them off that is monitored by a fire official on the 4th?

BTW, seeker is right, the police should be out using all their man hours busting people for bottle rockets, rapes, robbery, drunk drivers, and burglary are so much more trivial things.

[section3]

seeker,

i think you misunderstood my post, some posters on here think this guy should get a break because they freely use the word accident. my point was if i get in a car wreck that i had no intentions of causing, i am still financially responsable for the damage to the other car even though this was an accident. my ticket may only be failure to yield with a small fine but i still must make restitution to the others involved. just like this guy should be responsible for the damage he caused, even if it is 160,000. file a civil suit for damages and pain and suffering and garnish his wages forever.

[DragonTigerNemesis]

Actually someone having sex with a 15 year old is a far greater offense, by the laws on the books, than lighting a firework. Besides, I wouldn't call anyone getting pregnant an accident, after all pregnancy is a well known side effect of sex.


I said that her getting pregnant would be a mistake, not an accident.
Plus, its not illegal if the guy is her age.

[Spize]

That's why there are laws, and if people break them they are to be punished. It is to stop the others from breaking the same laws.





Thank you for asking.
If fact, my best friends two kids were three houses away from our's on Tuesday night shooting rockets that were hitting the neighbors' houses.
We called the police, stood on the sidewalk until they showed up, and pointed out where my friend's one kid was hiding with the rockets.

Apparently Cutts' friend used your line of thinking when she decided to help him hide Jesse's body.

Wow, I am sure the Davis family would agree that your son watching the neighbor kid light off bottle rockets is similar to the lady who helped Bobby Cutts murder and hide the body of their daughter/sister.

[Spize]

seeker,

i think you misunderstood my post, some posters on here think this guy should get a break because they freely use the word accident. my point was if i get in a car wreck that i had no intentions of causing, i am still financially responsable for the damage to the other car even though this was an accident. my ticket may only be failure to yield with a small fine but i still must make restitution to the others involved. just like this guy should be responsible for the damage he caused, even if it is 160,000. file a civil suit for damages and pain and suffering and garnish his wages forever.

The families and Demmer have that option, it is up to them to do so. However the city can only punish for the crime commited... hence why there are two different words used, civil and criminal.

[austinsm11]

Hmmmm, so we don't want to have the kids watch daddy setting off fireworks because they are illegal. However, it is ok to watch daddy beat up a 19 year old? Gotcha

BTW TDN, you never did answer me as to whether you have ever set off fireworks.

[DragonTigerNemesis]

Wow, I am sure the Davis family would agree that your son watching the neighbor kid light off bottle rockets is similar to the lady who helped Bobby Cutts murder and hide the body of their daughter/sister.


I'm getting tired of dealing with such illogical posts as this one.
Will someone please explain to him what I meant?

(Hint: Covering for someone that is breaking the law is wrong.)

[Spize]

That's why there are laws, and if people break them they are to be punished. It is to stop the others from breaking the same laws.





I have never said this kid was right to light off the fireworks the way he did, but in all actuallity he did break the law and was punished per that law.

Next on DTM's list, public stonings for speeding.

[austinsm11]

I'm getting tired of dealing with such illogical posts as this one.



You must mean how it is not ok for you to set off fireworks at your home, but ok for you to beat up someone for setting them off.

[Spize]

I'm getting tired of dealing with such illogical posts as this one.
Will someone please explain to him what I meant?

(Hint: Covering for someone that is breaking the law is wrong.)

Ok, lying to the police that you don't know where a dead body are and not calling the police on your buddies that lighting off a bottle rocket are the same thing? I'll be damned.




BTW, when someone hits a baseball into your yard, I bet you keep it don't you.:jestera:

[austinsm11]

seeker,

i think you misunderstood my post, some posters on here think this guy should get a break because they freely use the word accident. my point was if i get in a car wreck that i had no intentions of causing, i am still financially responsable for the damage to the other car even though this was an accident. my ticket may only be failure to yield with a small fine but i still must make restitution to the others involved. just like this guy should be responsible for the damage he caused, even if it is 160,000. file a civil suit for damages and pain and suffering and garnish his wages forever.

I don't see where anyone said to give him a break because it was an accident. Speaking for myself, I think that the fine was too small. I can't see jail time for this, however. Why give 30 days or 180 days for this when people get less for DUI.

I also agree with Spize. It is certainly their right to sue someone for the damages, just like it would be your right to sue an uninsured motorist who damaged your car.

[austinsm11]

Ok, lying to the police that you don't know where a dead body are and not calling the police on your buddies that lighting off a bottle rocket are the same thing? I'll be damned.




BTW, when someone hits a baseball into your yard, I bet you keep it don't you.:jestera:

No, he throws it back....at them....very hard. LOL

[The Voice]

nemisis; you have a unique way of really pissing people off. I am not going to joust with you on this. It is a hot topic and needs to be dealt with by cool heads all around, and YOU are NOT one of them! You seem to show up with your ATTACK ARMORY and start to fire upon people. Your are right on some of your points, but; by the way you 'take people out ' and attack them while you're explaining yourself defeats any progress that this thread might take.
I'm sorry that your sooooo angry and ready to kick everybody's ass that doesn't see it your way. :sad:

tv

[DAWGH8R]

I think what people are missing is that it is a CRIME to set off fireworks. When you buy them, do they still make you sign a paper that states you won't set them off in Ohio ??

Why does a 19 year old man take his dad to court ???

I'm SURE it was an accident. However, if he had NOT been COMMITING A CRIME, the accident could have NEVER occured.:oops2:

[austinsm11]

I think what people are missing is that it is a CRIME to set off fireworks. When you buy them, do they still make you sign a paper that states you won't set them off in Ohio ??

Why does a 19 year old man take his dad to court ???

I'm SURE it was an accident. However, if he had NOT been COMMITING A CRIME, the accident could have NEVER occured.:oops2:

I don't know that people are missing that point. The question is what should the punishment be? Some people want 30 days of jail - more severe than a DUI. Does that seem fair?

[Seeker]

I don't know that people are missing that point. The question is what should the punishment be? Some people want 30 days of jail - more severe than a DUI. Does that seem fair?

Yes, to me it does.

If you are caught DUI without any additional incidents, you only have to do the three days in soft confinement to learn about the risks involved.

If you are caught DUI as the result of an accident that caused major financial loss and/or personal injury, then you are likely to do at least a minimum of thirty days in jail.

I think a parallel is fair.
If you are caught shooting illegal rockets, then you should have to attend an all day lecture about the things that can and have happened because of it.
If you cause major loss to people or physical harm, then you should do at least thirty days for it.

The idea is not retribution to society, its that it might serve as a deterrent to others.

JMO

[austinsm11]

its that it might serve as a deterrent to others.

JMO

I doubt that.

I see your points about causing damage, however. Still seems a little harsh, but I see where you are coming from.

[DAWGH8R]

I think the city prosecutor should have thought long and hard about what crimes were committed ?? Did he have permission to be on that property ?? Did he legally obtain the fireworks ?? Did he sign a binding contract that forbids fireworks to be set off in Ohio ?? Did he start a fire while commiting another crime ?? Was bodily damaged inflicted on someone as a result of a crime ?? Was someone's personal property destroyed while/as a result of the guilty party committing a crime ???

I'll bet they could come up with a whole handful of charges if they looked hard enough. Did they research other fireworks related cases in Ohio, and study the charges and convictions ???

What a smart idea to go in bright and early and catch the court system "off guard" !!

More thoght went into that , than did setting off the fireworks !!

[Seeker]

I doubt that.

I doubt it myself sometimes, but the pro-capital punishment people tout it all the time as a reason for the state to kill people, so I thought it might fly with this crowd.

I see your points about causing damage, however. Still seems a little harsh, but I see where you are coming from.

To me, thirty days is not that harsh considering the loss these families suffered.
If it was just the garage and a car or two, maybe three or four days would be fair.
But these people lost everything, baby pictures, videos of the kids, all family heirlooms...

:sad2:

[austinsm11]

I guess part of the problem is that this law is never enforced. I would be willing to bet that 99% of the people on this board have shot fireworks off or been with friends shooting them off at some point in their life. I realize that this is not priority number 1 for the cops, but when someone happens to be pointing out people who are obviously shooting off fireworks and the cops do nothing...makes no sense. Either enforce it or get rid of the law altogether.

It also makes no sense that they can be sold in Ohio as long as people sign a paper saying they will take them out of state. Maybe Canada could start selling alcohol to our 19/20 year olds as long as they sign a paper saying they will take it out of the country.

Did either of the families involved have renter's insurance?

[Seeker]

Sorry Woody, to call you out...BUT WTF is up with the captain that slid this through with so much grease?

I know it's a lame-ass question, but is there a personal connection with the department and the family?

I mean, this man could have been charged with all kinds of things, and the captain said that they couldn't think of anything.

I CALL BS!

If people get caught with one lousy pot plant in their yard, and they have kids, they are charged with felony child endangering.

Couldn't they charge this clown with SOMETHING?

PS - Please don't answer these questions. They are just frustrated rhetoric.

[fyrewood]

I think its time for the citizens of Massillon to start digging into the relationship between Briggs and the fire captain that couldn't seem to find a way to charge him with arson, voluntary or involuntary.
Are they related?
Did he go to school with the "kid's" father?

There's a reason this act is essentially going unpunished.

:kungfu:

Dude, you seriously need to think before you type. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about and your statements about "the fire Captain" are pretty much on the verge of committing libel.

To be charged with arson, the act has to be "aggravated", he has to have knowingly or purposefully, started the fire with the intent to harm life or property. (his crime does not fit this definition)

There is not really any such thing as "voluntary" or "involuntary" arson. What you would like to call "involuntary" arson is usually what the courts and Ohio laws call "Criminal Damaging"...This offense involves creating a risk of physical harm to another’s property in two ways: (1) knowingly, by any means, or (2) recklessly, by fire, explosion, etc. To make this crime stick, you also have to show purposeful intent.....(his crime does not fit this definition either)

Basically, no matter how much you or I would like, there was just no way to make any kind of arson charge stick. They would have gotten thrown out and the kid would have walked out scott free.

The ONLY crime that was pretty much guaranteed to stick was the crime he was charged with, the illegal possession and use of fireworks, a first-degree misdemeanor, which holds a maximum penalty of a $1,000 fine and 180 days in jail.

Your questions and statements wondering:

Are they related?
Did he go to school with the "kid's" father?

There's a reason this act is essentially going unpunished.

Are pure, unfounded BULLSHIT, from someone who knows nothing of what they talk about, yet flings false accusations from behind an anonymous screen name like a coward.

[fyrewood]

Sorry Woody, to call you out...BUT WTF is up with the captain that slid this through with so much grease?

I know it's a lame-ass question, but is there a personal connection with the department and the family?

I mean, this man could have been charged with all kinds of things, and the captain said that they couldn't think of anything.

I CALL BS!

If people get caught with one lousy pot plant in their yard, and they have kids, they are charged with felony child endangering.

Couldn't they charge this clown with SOMETHING?

PS - Please don't answer these questions. They are just frustrated rhetoric.


Seeker,

I'm also sorry you felt the need to call me out. I consider you a friend, but yes, your question IS a "lame ass question" indeed.

I can assure you that NOTHING was "slid through"by the Captain in question. He is an HONEST, HARD WORKING, INTELLIGENT person with many, many years of experience doing what he does. Although it grates on many people here (me included) that Briggs got the little punishment that he did, that Captain came to the correct conclusion that only so many charges for what happened could stick and Briggs could be prosecuted for. Arson was NOT one of the charges. The Captain did not just come to this conclusion on a whim and did not come to this decision on his own. The decision of what to prosecute Briggs for was made mutually by him, the Police, and the city Prosecutor jointly.

To even ask the question of whether there is a personal connection with the department and the family is not only an insult to a man who has busted his ass for this city, but an insult to me personally. Good god, do people even think before they type anymore?

Oh, and just for further clarification in case you or anyone else needs it, NO, there is no connection between Cory Briggs and the Captain or anyone else on the Massillon Fire Dept.

OK I'm done. I know you didn't purposefully intend to insult me or any of my friends. I guess I just get defensive when the integrity of my brothers and sisters on the department and the department itself comes into question. Especially when I know personally how hard these guys bust their asses and risk harm to themselves to fight fires and help people and to prosecute criminals and arsonists as well.

[Kamd50]

I find no fault with the fire dept or captain. It seems as if their hands were tied according to the law. However, the laws do need to be changed. And more importantly, the visiting judge really dropped the ball on this one.

I think a suitable community service hours would be to make him go through the burnt rubble of these people's lives looking for anything salvagable, even though I know there won't be anything, just to make it sink in how devastating this is.

[fyrewood]

Thank you Kam. I agree totally, the laws do need to be changed or strengthened and the visiting judge did quite possibly drop the ball when it came to doling out the punishment. I also like your way of thinking when it comes to community service for Briggs.....again, thanks for the support!

[Seeker]

Seeker,

I'm also sorry you felt the need to call me out. I consider you a friend, but yes, your question IS a "lame ass question" indeed.

Sorry, I was out of line, and should have PM'd my comments to you where they would have remained personal.
Perhaps I should also add the disclaimer here that my opinions in no way reflect the opinions of MassillonProud, its members or the sponsors.

I can assure you that NOTHING was "slid through"by the Captain in question. He is an HONEST, HARD WORKING, INTELLIGENT person with many, many years of experience doing what he does...The decision of what to prosecute Briggs for was made mutually by him, the Police, and the city Prosecutor jointly.

Ouch...again, I apologize. The paper made it sound like he was the only one involved in the decision as to what to do. Please note that I did not ask about him personally, but rather was there "some" connection, somewhere.

To even ask the question of whether there is a personal connection with the department and the family is not only an insult to a man who has busted his ass for this city, but an insult to me personally. Good god, do people even think before they type anymore?

I like to think that I usually think before I type, but I can't speak for everyone. But sometimes, when I'm really angry and frustrated about something, I tend to blurt out stupidity.
There are thousands of us in Massillon that can't understand how a man can burn down three buildings, including people's homes, and only get a $100 fine.
We also can not understand why the police continued to do next to nothing about the identical activities during the following couple of days.

Again, I'm sorry I asked what I asked. I'm very angry, and I'm afraid that I lashed out.

Oh, and just for further clarification in case you or anyone else needs it, NO, there is no connection between Cory Briggs and the Captain or anyone else on the Massillon Fire Dept.

As lame-ass as this may sound, it's probably a good thing that you made this clear. There are many people trying to figure out how this happened.

OK I'm done. I know you didn't purposefully intend to insult me or any of my friends. I guess I just get defensive when the integrity of my brothers and sisters on the department and the department itself comes into question. Especially when I know personally how hard these guys bust their asses and risk harm to themselves to fight fires and help people and to prosecute criminals and arsonists as well.

I think you know me well enough to know the respect that I have for our safety forces. It's just that right now, this whole fireworks thing seems totally out of whack; not just this one incident, but the fact that Massillon isn't trying to get it under control.
It gets worse every year, and its only a matter of time before something like this happens again.
Next time, it might cost a human life, maybe even a firefighter's.

When you responded to DTN above, you mentioned reckless criminal damaging by fire or explosion.
It seems like that could apply to this situation.

As a side note, a couple of years ago some guys in Cleveland burned down a historic church by recklessly playing with fireworks.
Do you remember what they were charged with?

I've been researching it, but I can't seem to track it down.

Chuck

[Seeker]

OK, I'll join in about the judge.

Maybe he could go speak to the Hall's and Matt Demmer while they are sifting through the ashes of their belongings and explain his reasoning for leveling only a $100 fine and giving only 80 hours of community service.

BTW, am I the only one wonderig what Judge Eddie would have done?

:vconst:

[austinsm11]

Seeker,

It isn't just Massillon that doesn't seem to care about enforcing the law. It is a nationwide issue. I will say that at least down here people were saying that police were having check points on July 3/4 to try to catch people who had illegal fireworks. I've seen/heard of check points more in the few years I have lived here than my whole life in Ohio.

As far as the reckless criminal damaging, fyrewood said, "To make this crime stick, you also have to show purposeful intent." I'm guessing that this means they would have to prove that Briggs was trying to catch the house on fire on purpose.

[Obie Wan]

To be charged with arson, the act has to be "aggravated", he has to have knowingly or purposefully, started the fire with the intent to harm life or property. (his crime does not fit this definition)

There is not really any such thing as "voluntary" or "involuntary" arson. What you would like to call "involuntary" arson is usually what the courts and Ohio laws call "Criminal Damaging"...This offense involves creating a risk of physical harm to another’s property in two ways: (1) knowingly, by any means, or (2) recklessly, by fire, explosion, etc. To make this crime stick, you also have to show purposeful intent.....(his crime does not fit this definition either)

Hmm... They seem to be quite successful at throwing the book at people who start a wildfire through an act of ignorance. I wonder what the charge is in those situations.