"Stark’s poor to receive fuel cards" [Archive]

massillon catholic

06-08-2007, 10:30 AM

"More than 600 Stark County families will get help at the pump.The Stark County Department of Job and Family Services will issue $150 fuel cards in the next month to needy working families."

http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=17242&r=3&Category=3

You've got to be kidding me! If we aren't a socialist country yet it ain't far off. And, Sharia Law ain't far off either. What about Sarta, Bikes, Walking??? Just give them a fuel card, food card, housing. Hell, why should they even want to work? Maybe they should buy these people a new car to put the fuel in. I wouldn't want good fuel running in an old beat-up car. This is a joke!!!!!!!!!!

The Butler

06-08-2007, 11:13 AM

Maybe they should buy these people a new car to put the fuel in.

The same agency actually has a loan program to do just that. (used car though)

longtimefirsttime

06-08-2007, 11:55 AM

OTC TIGER

06-08-2007, 12:54 PM

How about a 75.00 grocery voucher or card mailed out twice in June

I'm sorry but I don't agree with the fuel cards...people have to eat in which
they can walk or take public transportation to most any grocery store in the
county...I'm sure cigarette and scratch off sales will now skyrocket..:smartass:

massillon catholic

06-08-2007, 02:19 PM

I posted it because I thought there may be some people here who could use it (or knows someone who can). Helping the needy is different from giving handouts to those who are unwilling to work and/or abuse the system.

I'm all for helping the needy, but not the greedy. And, unfortunately these things almost always get abused. Higher gas prices are hurting everyone. If they need food and clothing, give it to them, but not gas. I'm willing to bet that this "free gas" won't be used for driving back and forth to work. Send them to school to get better educated so they can get a better job, but don't give them hand-outs that discourages the desire to improve their lifestyle.

longtimefirsttime

06-09-2007, 12:07 AM

How does giving a truly needy person a gas voucher discourage the desire to improve their lifestyle? Going on job interviews or going to school most likely takes gas and not everybody lives on a bus route.

At one time in my life I was poor. I could've utilized a gas card, although I was neither lazy nor looking for a handout. I've never smoked and don't buy scratch-off lottery tickets. Talk about a generalization.

Kamd50

06-09-2007, 01:41 AM

Seriously, some people are so cynical. Of course there are always going to be people who abuse any type of program, but that number is not in the majority. I somehow don't think that the cost of the gas vouchers are going to be enough to put towards someone's education.

It is so easy to tell someone else to walk or take the bus. What if your dr. or dentist appt. isn't at a time where it is convenient or doesn't coincide with it? What if someone happens to have health problems or uses a walker or some other disability that would make it extremely difficult for them? What if your child needs a way to school, daycare, or w/e? Or what if it happens to be pouring down rain, like today? How would you like to have to get caught in that walking or waiting for a bus? Or what if you plain run out of milk or bread or toilet paper? Should they have to wait for Sarta unlike most of us who can just run out and get such things in case of an emergency?

Please, show some compassion for your fellow man, people. Christ spent most of his time among the poor and the outcasts of society. Why must we think that we are above them when HE wasn't?

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)

Mercy is said to be a virtue influencing one's will to have compassion for, and, if possible, to alleviate another's misfortune.

orangeblood

06-09-2007, 07:45 AM

Please, show some compassion for your fellow man, people. Christ spent most of his time among the poor and the outcasts of society. Why must we think that we are above them when HE wasn't?

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)

Mercy is said to be a virtue influencing one's will to have compassion for, and, if possible, to alleviate another's misfortune.This part of the above post is worth reading a second time. Please take note.

massillon catholic

06-09-2007, 09:01 AM

This part of the above post is worth reading a second time. Please take note.

He didn't hand out gas cards and they lived smack in the middle of the "oil belt"

CarlE

06-09-2007, 09:53 AM

He didn't hand out gas cards and they lived smack in the middle of the "oil belt"

Although a little blasphemous, that was kind of funny.

massillon catholic

06-09-2007, 09:57 AM

Although a little blasphemous, that was kind of funny.

Maybe a little. I had to make my point. As I said, I'm all for helping the needy, but where does the term "needy" end. Most people have flat screen tv's now. Should we give people TV Cards so they can have a flat screen? Where does it end?

Louisville Tiger

06-09-2007, 10:51 AM

Although I'm not catholic, MC is absolutely 100% right!!

Archie Bunker said it best- "Didn't need no welfare state,

everybody pulled his weight!":thumbsup:

Kamd50

06-09-2007, 11:14 AM

Ya think?:doh:

longtimefirsttime

06-09-2007, 11:44 AM

Maybe a little. I had to make my point. As I said, I'm all for helping the needy, but where does the term "needy" end. Most people have flat screen tv's now. Should we give people TV Cards so they can have a flat screen? Where does it end?

Most poor people do not have flat screen tv's.

"Cost of gas hobbling area's poor
Agencies try to help families stay afloat, avoid welfare rolls"

http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/content/local_news/stories/2007/06/04/GASWOE.ART_ART_06-04-07_A1_UQ6T839.html

"Things are critical," said Robert Gallagher of the Ross County Department of Job and Family Services. "It's the difference between paying utility bills and paying your rent. It really is putting a lot of pressure on families."
For 22-year-old Paula Bolender, a single mother of two young children, being able to put gas in her 1995 Chevy Lumina meant giving up telephone service.
"I have no land line, no cell phone, nothing," she said. "It takes $50 to fill the tank. That was the trade-off." A former welfare recipient, Bolender now works full time at the South Opportunity Center and is proud to be earning enough to support her children without cash assistance or food stamps. Most months, they just squeak by."

Yes, she's just ripping off the system. :crap:

(And I'm sure some will point out that's she's a single mom. You don't know her situation nor are you walking in her shoes.)

Seeker

06-09-2007, 01:31 PM

Although I'm not catholic, MC is absolutely 100% right!!

Archie Bunker said it best- "Didn't need no welfare state,

everybody pulled his weight!":thumbsup:

I agree also.
It's bullcrap.

I worked in a grocery store when I was in college.
The stories are true about the food stamp people driving nice cars and eating better than most of us.

For the vast majority of these people, if you give them gas money they will just use their extra cash to buy lottery tickets and beer.

For the truly needy and downtrodden, there is help available.

I'm sick of the government taking money from me and my kids to donate to people that don't deserve it.

:vconst:

massillon catholic

06-09-2007, 01:52 PM

I agree also.
It's bullcrap.

I worked in a grocery store when I was in college.
The stories are true about the food stamp people driving nice cars and eating better than most of us.

For the vast majority of these people, if you give them gas money they will just use their extra cash to buy lottery tickets and beer.

For the truly needy and downtrodden, there is help available.

I'm sick of the government taking money from me and my kids to donate to people that don't deserve it.

:vconst:

Don't be surprised if you start seeing people sell their fuel cards just like they did with food stamps.

Kamd50

06-09-2007, 02:06 PM

I agree also.
It's bullcrap.

I worked in a grocery store when I was in college.
The stories are true about the food stamp people driving nice cars and eating better than most of us.

For the vast majority of these people, if you give them gas money they will just use their extra cash to buy lottery tickets and beer.

For the truly needy and downtrodden, there is help available.

I'm sick of the government taking money from me and my kids to donate to people that don't deserve it.

:vconst:

The thing is, you DON'T know who truely deserves it. You just think that because SOME people get away with beating the system that ALL poor people are the same. You can't just lump everyone into some neat little package. That is like being prejudice against the poor.

austinsm11

06-09-2007, 02:20 PM

What bothers me is free/reduced lunch students who are buying 2 bags of chips, fruit juice, and 5 cookies with their lunch. These are also the same kids who leave school for the summer and have 3 jackets left behind in their locker.

massillon catholic

06-09-2007, 02:29 PM

The thing is, you DON'T know who truely deserves it. You just think that because SOME people get away with beating the system that ALL poor people are the same. You can't just lump everyone into some neat little package. That is like being prejudice against the poor.

Without starting an arguement. Do you have a solution to prevent the fraud and help the ones who truly need it? I don't have the answer. I don't think anyone on here is trying to lump everyone into one category. And, I believe that most people really want to help those who need help. Its the fraud and abuse that burns me and many others.

Kamd50

06-09-2007, 02:42 PM

austinsm11

06-09-2007, 02:45 PM

I like to think that our government isn't THAT stupid.

One can dream.

massillon catholic

06-09-2007, 02:46 PM

Wouldn't you think that there would be stipulations put in place; ie it could only be used for gas, not things like cigarettes or lotto cards? I like to think that our government isn't THAT stupid. And yet, I am sure that there is no perfect way to prevent 100% fraudulent use. Just like there is no perfect way to prevent the rich from getting away with unscrupulous tax deductions and so on. We live in an imperfect world and can only try to do the best that we can.

Without the Job and Family Services actually pumping the gas into the recipients vehicle. I don't know of anyway to prevent the fraud. Even if you eliminate cigs and lotto there is still room for them tho sell the cards to someone else. They have figured a way around it with the new food cards. All you have to do is go to one of these corner markets and the store doesn't verify the ID.

Louisville Tiger

06-09-2007, 02:47 PM

I can't tell you how many times in Cleveland, Canton, and even Massillon that someone approaches me for money because they say that their car "ran out of gas" down the road.
They bug the piss out of everyone until someone finally gives them a couple bucks.
Then they go into the gas station or store and buy beer, wine, or cigarettes with it!
You'd like to help people out but most of them are just out to scam you.

What I do to help the poor and homeless is give to the Haven of Rest Ministry in Akron.
At least there, I know that people are truly needy and are also getting spirtual guidance and direction for their lives.

CarlE

06-09-2007, 02:50 PM

I like to think that our government isn't THAT stupid.

And I would hope that people I consider to be very intelligent wouldn't be naieve enough to believe that people would find away to circumvent the system like they have with everything else. I'm sorry, I just can't agree with this program. We need to figure out another alternative.

How's this for one. People that drive the most, and are positively contributing to the U.S economy ALSO gets these fuel cards as a subsidy for their positive contribution. I mean is that any different?

Kamd50

06-09-2007, 02:51 PM

One can dream.

:hug: :jestera:

massillon catholic

06-09-2007, 02:52 PM

And I would hope that people I consider to be very intelligent wouldn't be naieve enough to believe that people would find away to circumvent the system like they have with everything else. I'm sorry, I just can't agree with this program. We need to figure out another alternative.

How's this for one. People that drive the most, and are positively contributing to the U.S economy ALSO gets these fuel cards as a subsidy for their positive contribution. I mean is that any different?

I can't stop laughing. My Tahoe says the oil needs changed. Oil is a fuel, so will your solution cover oil changes?

longtimefirsttime

06-09-2007, 11:11 PM

For the vast majority of these people, if you give them gas money they will just use their extra cash to buy lottery tickets and beer.

:vconst:

False. That's like saying almost all rich people engage in tax fraud. Simply not true. Your viewpoint is being swayed by reports of people abusing the system. Yes it obviously occurs. Yes it's frustrating to witness. Yes those people should be held accountable. But no most poor people do not abuse the system.

longtimefirsttime

06-09-2007, 11:19 PM

I'm sick of the government taking money from me and my kids to donate to people that don't deserve it.
:vconst:

Welfare represents about 1% of the nation's budget. If you're angry about the government taking your money, perhaps you should place that anger in other areas.

longtimefirsttime

06-09-2007, 11:39 PM

A few links worth reading:
http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/myths.html
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1302
http://www.wroc.org/factsheets/myths.htm

http://www.incomesecurity.org/paytherent/resources/pdf_R/myths.pdf
(Note, lists some Canadian stats)

I agree with this from the last source.

"The biggest myth of all would be to assume that any of us are immune to
personal tragedies or the many other misfortunes that can lead to
reliance on welfare."

austinsm11

06-10-2007, 07:48 AM

"The biggest myth of all would be to assume that any of us are immune to
personal tragedies or the many other misfortunes that can lead to
reliance on welfare."

Good quote.

Dr Strangemind

06-10-2007, 09:33 AM

CarlE

06-10-2007, 10:42 AM

I agree with this from the last source.

"The biggest myth of all would be to assume that any of us are immune to
personal tragedies or the many other misfortunes that can lead to
reliance on welfare."

REALLY? Welfare? I'm sorry but I just don't believe that. At all.

massillon catholic

06-10-2007, 11:00 AM

The Voice

06-10-2007, 11:36 AM

Alright; it's time to get a few things straight .. Many comments here are both right AND wrong.. I see some judgemental comments here..judgemental comments from some posters who have no right to judge. The reason I say this is because I've been there..YES; I have been on welfare!
it is a terrible feeling, it is embarrasing and you basically want to tell the goofy workers that have no idea what their doing to 'F' off . Yes; there are certain a$$holes that take advantage of the system, but most people are there because they REALLY NEED help. Unless you have really walked in these shoes then I honestly don't think you have the right to pass judgement
or expressed a (what you think) is an informed opinion. Stark County Ohio is one of the worst counties economically in the entire state. They say many families are three paychecks away from welfare, and lay offs continue.
Although it is not perfect by no means, welfare can be a temporary safety net while families rebuild their lives as best as possible.

tv

CarlE

06-10-2007, 11:41 AM

I'm not judging. It's not my place. I'm just stating an opinion.

austinsm11

06-10-2007, 01:27 PM

REALLY? Welfare? I'm sorry but I just don't believe that. At all.

I do. I am curious how many good, hard-working people lost their house and jobs in Katrina. I'm sure they needed welfare of some type. There are just as many that got back on their feet without it, but I am sure many did need it.

I would think in Florida there are people all the time that lose everything and need help getting back on their feet due to the hurricanes. They may not need it very long, but just for a little while.

I know people who due to injury that kept them from working had to be on food stamps or free lunch or other things for a year or so to get back on their feet.

fyrewood

06-10-2007, 02:51 PM

I'm not judging. It's not my place. I'm just stating an opinion.

And you know what they say about opinions CarlE...LOL

CarlE

06-10-2007, 03:02 PM

And you know what they say about opinions CarlE...LOL

You got that right, buddy. I'm sure hearing about it now aren't I???

longtimefirsttime

06-12-2007, 04:46 PM

REALLY? Welfare? I'm sorry but I just don't believe that. At all.

The reality is there are millions of Americans who are two or three paychecks from being homeless. It may not be true for you, but it is reality.

"Homelessness remains a severe problem across the country - and one that is worsening in many communities. The United States has had the highest overall poverty rate among the world's sixteen most advanced economies for the last two decades. It is estimated that 3.5 million people, 1.35 million of them children, are likely to experience homelessness in a given year.

A missed paycheck, a health crisis, an eviction - any of life's unexpected setbacks can push low-income families into homelessness. Many well-paying manufacturing jobs have disappeared, replaced instead by poorly paid jobs with few or no benefits. At the same time, wages themselves have steadily eroded, lagging far behind the rate of inflation. In fact, a survey conducted by the U.S. Conference of Mayors found that almost 20% of homeless people are employed full-time." (Urban Institute, 2000)

An online article (from 2006):

"One of the many holiday movies opening this winter is The Pursuit of Happyness. This is not the typical holiday fare, or one of those fluffy good date movies, but rather a sobering film about a man who loses his job and becomes homeless with his young son. The Pursuit of Happyness movie features Will Smith as a homeless man who finally lands a position at a Dean Witter investment firm, only to find that his new position is actually an unpaid internship. The Pursuit of Happyness presents a timely topic, especially when more and more salary surveys remind us how many people are one paycheck from being homeless. That alone may be hard to fathom in the richest country in the world, but there are more surprising facts about homeless people."
http://blogs.payscale.com/salarystories/2006/12/the_pursuit_of_.html

"Three paychecks away from homelessness"
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Feb/16/ln/FP702160374.html

Obie Wan

06-12-2007, 06:38 PM

"It is estimated that 3.5 million people, 1.35 million of them children, are likely to experience homelessness in a given year."
That factoid/estimate/WAG is completely worthless without a definition of "homelessness".

massillon catholic

06-12-2007, 06:52 PM

That factoid/estimate/WAG is completely worthless without a definition of "homelessness".

What about the part that says 20% of homeless are full-time workers? Maybe it is more of a money-management issue than anything else! How can you work full-time and not even be able to pay for an apartment?

austinsm11

06-12-2007, 06:53 PM

I wouldn't say it is completely worthless.

Wouldn't it be fair, regardless of definition, to say that these people probably receive some type of welfare?

austinsm11

06-12-2007, 06:56 PM

How can you work full-time and not even be able to pay for an apartment?

I could see where a single parent working at a low-paying job could be in this situation. 20% does seem a little high, however.

Obie Wan

06-12-2007, 07:01 PM

I wouldn't say it is completely worthless.

Wouldn't it be fair, regardless of definition, to say that these people probably receive some type of welfare?

Many definitinions of "homeless" have nothing to do with wealth or income. They are, for the most part, more concerned with having your name on a lease, mortgage, and/or utility bills. Which means that the recent college grad who is living with his parents is, by some government definitions, homeless - even though he's in a nice house with 3 squares and plenty of disposable income.

austinsm11

06-12-2007, 07:04 PM

Many definitinions of "homeless" have nothing to do with wealth or income. They are, for the most part, more concerned with having your name on a lease, mortgage, and/or utility bills. Which means that the recent college grad who is living with his parents is, by some government definitions, homeless - even though he's in a nice house with 3 squares and plenty of disposable income.

Interesting. I didn't realize that.
Why would the government consider them homeless? I would think this would be hard to track.

Just curious, but is social security considered a form of welfare?

massillon catholic

06-12-2007, 07:05 PM

Many definitinions of "homeless" have nothing to do with wealth or income. They are, for the most part, more concerned with having your name on a lease, mortgage, and/or utility bills. Which means that the recent college grad who is living with his parents is, by some government definitions, homeless - even though he's in a nice house with 3 squares and plenty of disposable income.

Based on some of those defintions, I think that I may be considered "homeless"

austinsm11

06-12-2007, 07:27 PM

If the gov't uses those criteria to describe one as being homeless, wouldn't it mainly refer to those who lost jobs/homes/etc. and had to move in with family or friends? I know that these people would have a roof over their heads, but it would still be a struggle for those involved.

longtimefirsttime

06-12-2007, 07:58 PM

What about the part that says 20% of homeless are full-time workers? Maybe it is more of a money-management issue than anything else! How can you work full-time and not even be able to pay for an apartment?

Years ago I was full-time at WTIG. I could barely afford food, much less an apartment. I lived in a leaky trailer in Canton with a roommate. And no I did not mismanage my money.

I know the next question is why did I stay? I needed the work experience. I stayed as long as I could stand, then went elsewhere.

massillon catholic

06-12-2007, 08:11 PM

Years ago I was full-time at WTIG. I could barely afford food, much less an apartment. I lived in a leaky trailer in Canton with a roommate. And no I did not mismanage my money.

I know the next question is why did I stay? I needed the work experience. I stayed as long as I could stand, then went elsewhere.

I suppose that there are exceptions to everything. But, you were doing it for experience not the money.

longtimefirsttime

06-13-2007, 01:10 AM

I had to get the experience if I was ever going to have a chance to make the money. I'd be happy to show people where I lived. I'm sure most people have seen "Eight Mile." Very similar. I could have qualified for aid, but was too stubborn.

massillon catholic

06-13-2007, 09:46 AM

longtimefirsttime

06-13-2007, 10:17 AM

Yes. If you've seen the trailer park in the movie then you get the picture.

massillon catholic

06-13-2007, 10:30 AM

Yes. If you've seen the trailer park in the movie then you get the picture.

I didn't waste my money. But, I'll take you word for it that it certainly was less than an ideal situation for you.

chap

06-16-2007, 01:11 PM

And I would hope that people I consider to be very intelligent wouldn't be naieve enough to believe that people would find away to circumvent the system like they have with everything else. I'm sorry, I just can't agree with this program. We need to figure out another alternative.

How's this for one. People that drive the most, and are positively contributing to the U.S economy ALSO gets these fuel cards as a subsidy for their positive contribution. I mean is that any different?

Circumvent!!!!! I had to look that up in the dictionary! You Rascal You! LOL!

CarlE

06-16-2007, 01:30 PM

Circumvent!!!!! I had to look that up in the dictionary! You Rascal You! LOL!

Merriam-Webster online my friend!!! What? You actually thought I was that smart??? Come on, my friend!!

austinsm11

06-17-2007, 10:01 AM

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=17&ID=360421&r=0&subCategoryID=0

Good article in the Rep by former South picture Dirk Hayhurst.

In the back of my mind I would always think, "Besides, you only become homeless in America if you make bad choices so they must deserve it right?"

Pathetic? Yes. Misguided? Sure. But I thought that way.

Then I went. This is what I learned: That people in those shelters had more in common with me then I could have imagined. They are marginalized people. Folks the world has forgotten. Pushed out of the norms of our society and stereotyped as something they are not. They would tell me stories of their hardships: Medical bills, family tragedy, layoffs, cutbacks, abuse, fires. Not the "bad choices" I had envisioned. Just heart-breaking reality.

monte81

06-20-2007, 10:49 AM

I work as a veterans career counselor and support services coordinator for AMVETS Dept. of Ohio. I deal with all kinds of situations everyday. The govt. considers anyone who does not have a residence or address to be homeless--living with friends is considered homeless. I was homeless and had to sleep on the floor of my cousins efficency apartment for 7 months waiting on our govt. to process my benefits package after getting out the Army on retirement due to surgeries. They were giving me 454 dollars a month until the claim was processed. I lost my condo, my Nissan 300z, and was living like a animal IMO but could not come home unless i would have to start the disability process over in Ohio. Raw deal but I survived on food stamps and my mother and grandmother sending me money every month until i reveived my pension. Veterans have it bad in America and it is getting worse for everybody!!

Some abuse the system and I weed them out everyday in my job. I can tell weather a person is needing help because they actually need it or a person looking for hand outs, drug money, or to my alcohol. The system keeps families together and actually is a good thing in most cases. However the abusers need punished and barred from public assistance for life!