What defensive concerns???

[ObieWon]

Did somebody say we should be concerned about our defense? I'll take that performance tonight!

In all seriousness, a better opponent would have made us pay on a couple of occassions, but all in all I'm very satisfied with what I saw in game 1. Nice job Tigers! Enjoy this win.

Keep improving, this is but the beginning!

I'm looking forward to an awesome season!

[brizzishuffle]

Yeah, the D seemed fine. That #32 had a little better game than I wanted him to, but overall I was happy.

[DAWGH8R]

I'm a little concerned with the middle. We are a little light in the pants. On the plays where the guards trapped or pulled, we were getting blown out of the middle. I am sure that the coaches have a better feel for the defense after tonight, and we might see some tinkering. :gogogo:

[GrowlingTiger87]

I was mostly impressed with our pass coverage on "D". What concerned me was not getting any pressure on the QB all night. Against a better opponent, we would have needed to get some pressure on him.

Room to improve for sure.

[march]

folks,let's face it,the defense has a LOT of improving to do if we are to even think about going back to the state title game.
I saw horrible tackling,especially from a couple returning letterman,and absolutely NO pass rush whatsoever.
These have been consistent issues in 2 scrimmages and one game now.
I also noticed that the offense was'nt very explosive.#16 was telegraphing everything.
I was actually more impressed by the backups.
I expect there will be some personnel changes in the near future.I also would'nt be surprised if we got out of that 3 man front as our base,defensively.

[CarlE]

We played a freaking middle school type talent team. Let's not get too hyped up, OK? Good Lord.

[ObieWon]

Not sure what you mean Carl - who's "hyped up?" We've congratulated the team and have expressed some room for improvement. We didn't open against McKinley, but I'm not gonna take anything away from our guys - I'm not so sure that Perry woulda put up 68 points or held them to 6.

March - like you, I was impressed by the play of our backups - I was glad to see 'em get in, and thought they did well.

It's gonna be a fun season!

[obie0130]

so if we played a "middle school" team, why was there no pass rush and sub-par tackling?

[obie0130]

N.P's running back didn't seem loke a middle-schooler. he broke tackles all night and even ran right over gamble on one play.

[austinsm11]

I think that Carle is just saying not to get too pumped up about how the defense played, espeically considering who we played. I am sure NP had some good players, but overall they were very overmatched against Massillon. Winning by so much, it does worry me a little about what I have read about a lack of pass rush. This is only week 1, so we can improve and need to improve for the stronger teams on our schedule.

Also glad to read about how the players were not completely satisfied with their performance and felt like they could do better and want to continue to improve. They know they need to improve and I love this championship attitude and they weren't merely satisfied with a dominating win over a lesser opponenet.

[Benchboss1]

I'll take that performance tonight!


I bet that coaches Kovacs and Stacy do not feel the same way!


In all seriousness, a better opponent would have made us pay on a couple of occassions, but all in all I'm very satisfied with what I saw in game 1. Nice job Tigers! Enjoy this win.


This is what bothers me. We WILL play better teams, WAY better teams!!

[Benchboss1]

I'm not so sure that Perry woulda put up 68 points or held them to 6.



Nothing against Perry, but since when do use Perry as a measuring stick? Our defense MUST get better.

[fmtiger]

When we play a team with a great running game we will need to play alot better. Overall the whole team seemed a little sluggish in the first half, but it's hard to get pumped up over N.P. It was a great start, but the D run game needs to keep improving, which I'm sure they will. "Socholotiuk finished with a game-high 147 yards rushing." If things don't improve, what will Williams, Herron, and most likely Edmunds rush for? This is just my opinion.:gogogo:

[Tiger_proud521]

I will agree with March. I did see some concerns in defense more specifically the pass rush defense and a lot of bad tackling. It seems like no one wraps up their man. It seems like a lot of the times they are just trying to make the highlight reel with a big hit. More often than not I saw the guy bounce off for a few more yards. This Canada team was out matched but it made me wonder how a lot of these better teams we will be playing very soon would make us pay dearly for these sloppy tackles and huge gaps on defense. I think the team should watch that film of St X everyday to study it and see how they ran that defense, how they came crashing in and plugged upi the holes. I was also impressed with the back ups. I am very pleased with the over all performance, I just hope we can be ready for the onslaught of talent that awaits us in a couple of weeks. GO TIGERS!

[wa_tigerfan]

I agree with everyone's concerns about the defense needing some improvement. Don't forget however that Stacey came in late after two 4-6 seasons and got us into the championship game. I feel the coaches and players will be ready for Mo on their turf in 2 weeks. The kids want to improve and the coaching staff will get them to where they need to be. I feel we will be ready for whoever we play... on both sides of the ball.

If you wanna hang with Massillon, you better put your "big boy" pants on!

[CarlE]

Look guys I'm NOT taking away anything from our defense. My point was not to start comparing them to the 2002 Bucanneers defense after one game against an overmatched opponent. And no, Perry is NOT a good measuring stick. However, Fremont Ross is still VERY much in my mind. And it should be in yours, too.

[ObieWon]

benchboss - you missed the point - Perry is not a mesauring stick for us. I don't think our fans need to discredit last night as if was nothing. Massillon showed force last night - force that Perry and most of the rest of the Fed could not. Can we improve/should we improve? Heck yes! But for week 1, our guys did well. Support 'em. Encourage 'em. CONGRATULATE them - and let their coaches coach 'em - they're pretty good at it.

It's pretty easy for us to see all th eimperfections in the stands, but truly, not many of our posters could hang with North Park ourselves, so wefore we say we did nothing other than beat up on some toddlers, we should consider that Massillon might also be a better than football team.

Tiger players, Iknow you read this site. Most of us are VERY proud of you and know that you'll continue to work hard and strive to be the best. Keep working towrds the goal, stay focused and disciplined and commit to being both physically and mentally tough - and have some fun doing it!

[ObieWon]

Carl - don't take this as a slam - I sincrely don't mean it that way. I know you post here a lot and I see that your location says FLA. I'm just curious if you were able to see the game or if you're writing from afar.

Just curious - nothing more.

PS - put yer smiles on folks, this WILL be a fun season!

[Kamd50]

For anyone who got a close-up look at these guys before the game, you weren't necessarily thinking that they were going to be a pushover. Yes, they were small in numbers, but not in size, including 6'3 190 QB.
Here's a few of their stats:
6'5 190 WR
6'2 210 TE
6'0 190 DB/L
5'9 230 RB
5'11 215 LB
6'1 215 LB
6'0 265 OL/DL
6'1 278 OL/DL
5'10 200 OL/DL
6'0 255 OL/DL
5'11 220 OL/DL
6'0 215 LB/DL
6'0 230 OL/DL
6'2 270 OL/DL
6/0 265 OL/DL
5'11 240 OL/DL
6'4 302 OL/DL
6'2 225 OL/DL
Too many players going both ways.

[Tiger_proud521]

OK I just watched the game on tv for the 3rd time and I was able to see the plays a lot better than I did when I was there. I think I may have sounded a little too critical of the team in ky earlier post. I have to remember what the score was and that we only allowed them to get in once. I have to remember that these great Tiger players are kids and this is the first game of the year. They played very solid football and I am sure they will continue to improve and overcome anyone that lines up across from them. I have to take coaches advise that he gives the players and that is take one game at a time. I also was comparing the team from what i saw in week 15 vs what I see now which is unfair. we have the talent and we know we have the coaching. I know we are in good hands. GO TIGERS!!

[CarlE]

Carl - don't take this as a slam - I sincrely don't mean it that way. I know you post here a lot and I see that your location says FLA. I'm just curious if you were able to see the game or if you're writing from afar.

Just curious - nothing more.

PS - put yer smiles on folks, this WILL be a fun season!

I did not see the game. I listened to it live and then talked to some people that were there so no, I did not get to see the defense.

[npaflas]

Fryrewood was at the game and he said they had a lot of holes open and t
they weren't tackling the players the way they should have.

GO TIGERS BEAT WOODSON :gogogo:

[austinsm11]

Obiewan,
I know it wasn't your intent, but your first post on this topic seemed to be acting like there are no problems with the defense.

I obviously didn't watch the game either, but I think that people were just responding that they felt that there are things that need to be worked on. NP is nowhere near where some of the upcoming teams are going to be and the lack of pass rush and tackling.

Yes, I will take a dominant performance and the team did a great job. I am not complaining at all. I think that Coach will get these things worked on in practice and we will be ok. I think that everyone has high expectations, including the players. I read some comments from players who felt they could have done things better. I feel that this is a great attitude and will make them work harder in practice. These guys are hungry for a championship!

[DAWGH8R]

Anytime someone drops a 147 on your defense, we need to buckle down, close the holes faster, WRAP when we tackle, and GANG tackle.

Our DB's love the "Big Hit", but we need the SURE TACKLE !!!:gogogo:

[obie0130]

you got it d-h8tr. when weak teams with inferior talent come in here and their RB goes for 147, that is cause for concern. especially given the missed tackles. it's not championship defense. however, the missed tackling issues can be cleared up with practice. the lack of a pass rush also needs to be addressed. that kid last night should have been running for his life all night.

[91' alum]

2 quick things... It is week 1 and the issues can be fixed. As far as I know we made it through the night without any major problems.
Good luck MEN (team)! Have a good week of practice and I'll see you on Saturday!:gogogo: :rockon:

[longtimefirsttime]

What we saw last night is about what I expected. Yes there's room for improvement, but there's no reason to panic. I am confident those changes will be made over the next few weeks.

[President skroob]

Dover moved the ball in game one last year.

[obie0130]

not on the ground and we sacked their QB at least 5 times, probably more.

[DAWGH8R]

not on the ground and we sacked their QB at least 5 times, probably more.


Good point !!:cool2:

[longtimefirsttime]

I am confident we will see blitz packages this year. Obie0130 I understand the comparison, but they don't need to "bring the house" to get convincing wins in weeks one and two. The goals are to try players in different roles to see what works and avoid injuries.

[obie0130]

also a good point. i'm sure stacy and the staff are watching the tape and finding out where the problem areas are.

[Chubby Tiger]

We had like 10 sacks against dover. Somehow we need to find a pass rush or else we are in trouble. When we play these spread teams like mentor and they have 10 seconds to throw the ball it scares me. I think we should go back to our shade version of defense that way we can stabilize the middle a little bit and keep guys off our linebackers so they can make some plays. When we face backs like herron I dont think our 3-4 is going to hold.

[obie0130]

in watching the mentor game today, glenville was able to get pressure on the qb and disrupted their spread pretty often throughout the game. however, they weren't able to get the stops when it counted. point being, as chubby said, we need pressure, especially against the spread teams.

[CarlE]

Jay:

Thanks for THAT tidbit of information. This team had a guy that ran for 147 freaking yards? I didn't HAVE to see the game. I rest my case right here and now. There IS cause for concern.

[obie0130]

especially when it is north park ontario getting the 147 on us.

[mike_da_man13]

say what u want when they needed yards in the first half they were able to get them on the ground but the second half wasnt bad but if we get moved like that agianst a team like iggy or mck were in for a long game

[obie0130]

i think that's what most of us have been trying to say.

[fmtiger]

My thoughts on the lack of pass rush, was not showing scouting teams our defensive hand. Why blitz a team like NP if you don't have to. As of yet no teams know where the blitz is comming from. I will say that the defense did play better in the second half, and probably close to half of the NP running back's yards came on one long rush. Perry also moved the ball pretty well during the scrimmage, but they killed Perry's QB.

[DAWGH8R]

We didn't need to blitz Dover last year either, but we had 10 !!!!

:afro:

[march]

The only problem with you people saying they did'nt blitz is,that...THEY DID blitz!
They blitzed,they stunted,but it wasnt overpowering,and also seemed a step too slow.And did anyone notice that when we did get penetration it just opened up huge running lanes.Our lineman were pawns.
Im hoping,though, that the Tigers are just working with this 3 man line because they know they will have to utilize it at some point this year and they are just "repping" it against weaker opponents.Sorta like buying time with it.I wouldnt be surprised that if sometime around week 3 against Moeller we "suddenly" became a situational defense,as we were last year.However the lack of fundamental tackling so far does not bode well,no matter what"D"were in.
On a good note I have a feeling this team and staff are going to unveil a lot of pleasant surprises this year.Besides the reliability of BG running behind #78,we should be able to hurt teams if they have to start over compensating defensively.-has anyone considered the ace-in-the-hole possibilities with our starting TE?note- check his size,he may not be what he appears :)

[Benchboss1]

Jay:

Thanks for THAT tidbit of information. This team had a guy that ran for 147 freaking yards? I didn't HAVE to see the game. I rest my case right here and now. There IS cause for concern.




I agree CarlE, especially when the guy that went for 147 was a very unathletic, bowling ball type of fullback. Does the name Tommy Vardell ring a bell?

[CarlE]

I agree CarlE, especially when the guy that went for 147 was a very unathletic, bowling ball type of fullback. Does the name Tommy Vardell ring a bell?

Sure does, Boss. I rest my case yet AGAIN!!!

[ObieWon]

Austin, yer right - I didn't mean to suggest that our D was bulletproof, or that it was reminiscent of the '02 bucs defense. My post was meant to be more of a light hearted, tongue-in-cheek, positive, congratulatory post making light of the final score and all the "worrying." We all agree that there's room for improvement. That said, I still don't think it "panic time" - not after game 1. These guys will pick apart the film and will learn from what they see.

I'll admit, I get kinda bummed when people get all negative and analytical, but I've gotta remember that analyzing the game is part of the joy for many, and that it's been a long wait, so I gotta cut ya'll some slack. Just know that these guys are gonna give it all they've got - I'm confident in that as I know you all are too.

We're in for an exciting year.

[Chubby Tiger]

do you think we could sneak antonio james and dirk dickerhoof into the game down in cincy?

[DAWGH8R]

I agree CarlE, especially when the guy that went for 147 was a very unathletic, bowling ball type of fullback. Does the name Tommy Vardell ring a bell?


http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/5227/vardchi.jpg

[Tiger_proud521]

I hear you out there with the concerns but I remember last year in week 10! Talk about concerns! But the coach and team made it happen. This is a different era folks we have to trust that this team is talented and hungry enough to address any issues from week to week. The biggest cause for concern I had was the poor tackling which I also noticed in week 15 last year. Yeah they had a back go over the century mark but look at the score, it tells all you need to know, plus how many of those yards came later on after a lot of the starters were out? This team wants it and they kow they have to adjust and they have the coach to help them make those adjustments. it is hard not too worry because of years past but we remember we are the Ohio State Div 1 Runner up State Champions!! That is a wole heck of a lot different. it is going to be a great season! GO TIGERS!!

[Benchboss1]

we are the Ohio State Div 1 Runner up State Champions!!


Huh? Please explain!:rock:

[Fats]

I agree CarlE, especially when the guy that went for 147 was a very unathletic, bowling ball type of fullback. Does the name Tommy Vardell ring a bell?
I would disagree. That running back was not an out of shape fat kid. He looked pretty solid to me. Also, most of those yards came in a couple of big plays. He was a load to take down once he got started. If memory serves he reminded me of Don nottingham I believe who was with the colts.(I could be wrong). But, I do agree we need to tackle better.:kungfu:

[#56tigerdad]

I dont see what people can complain about the offense. They have scored on almost every possession in the 2 scrimmages and in their first game. Granted the competition is not top notch but you score on 7 out of your first 9 possessions and that includes a missed field goal which would be 8 out of 9.
I think offense will be fine.

[DAWGH8R]

I was hoping that missed FG wouldn't come back to haunt us !! J/K

Does anyone know how many PAT's Steve has made in a row ??

His leg looks WAY strong this year.

I was at the John Carrol/ Kenyon scrimmage yesterday @ Kenyon, and they were only clearing 40 yards !!!

What a weapon Steve is going tobe this year! He will win 1 or 2 games for us this year.

I wanted to see us punt,at least once friday ! Robbie REALLY boomed one in the Perry scrimmage.

The kicking game is a HUGE part of a deep playoff run !!!:gogogo:

[Tiger_proud521]

Come on Bench Boss you know what I mean. This isnt the frustrating tigers of recent past. These Tigers are well coached and are in very capable hands. If you dont know what I meant I will clarify... We can be very proud as we are the team that played for the D 1 State Championship. We are runners up Bottom line is that the problems we see on the field in the first game against an out matched opponent shouldnt cause us as much concern as it did in years past. Did you see the final score?? I think we got the job done! For me those days were filled with frustration because we just couldnt overcome due to coaching. Last season was a new dawn for us. So all of the concerns we saw on Friday are legitamate but my hope is that the excellent coaching staff and remarkable talent will overcome and lead to improvement all season long. Hoep that makes sense??!

[TigerVic]

If Shepas was coaching, the score would've been 90-28, with Gamble scoring midway through the 4th quarter before leaving.

[tiger#22]

I was hoping that missed FG wouldn't come back to haunt us !! J/K

Does anyone know how many PAT's Steve has made in a row ??

His leg looks WAY strong this year.

I was at the John Carrol/ Kenyon scrimmage yesterday @ Kenyon, and they were only clearing 40 yards !!!

What a weapon Steve is going tobe this year! He will win 1 or 2 games for us this year.

I wanted to see us punt,at least once friday ! Robbie REALLY boomed one in the Perry scrimmage.

The kicking game is a HUGE part of a deep playoff run !!!:gogogo:

Dawg I agree 100%, his kickoffs were booming and to have a team start at their own 20 is a huge advantage. I can definitley see Steve winning a game or 2 this year not to mention going after a few of Abdul's records and just think he has 1 more year yet!!

Steve has made 32 PAT's in a row now dating back to the Warren game last year where he had one blocked, there was a bad snap in the Findlay playoff game and he tried to pass to get 2 pts and didnt get it but I dont think they consider that a missed XP.

[march]

TP521
You referred to Massillon as the Ohio div.1 runner-up state champions.
Think about it for a second.

[sly4458]

the only concern is that the young men get better every game. you want the players to peek at the end.

tigers always

[monte81]

Not much concern except the pass rush we we may have to use some stunts off the interior to get pressure!! I feel we played to the talent on the field--the team looked bored after the 1st quarter. We just need to keep improving and things will come together!! I am concerned with leaving our corners one on one with no cover two!! #99 Wachtel will get more playing time as the season goes on!!

[MTown]

You are never as good as you think you are and never as bad as you think you are.

We have room for improvement but the sky is not falling down. We also have to understand that we are running very, very basic schemes. We lost a lot on defense from last year and it is unrealistic to think that coming out of the gate we are going to see a replica of our week 15 D. We will continue to improve and get better as the week goes along. I think all of us trust our coaching staff to focus on the issues.

[slider63]

My concern with the defense is that they have not looked impressive in the scrimmages or the first game. Obviuosly there is some work to do on this side of the ball. I thought #99 looked real good also and I would like to see him get more playing time. I did not see #3 play any defense, does anyone know the situation there? Slider, out!!!

[Tiger_proud521]

Ok March I hear ya. I was trying to make it sound better!! I am not writing a thesis here. I will try and be more straight forward with my future postings for those more crtical members! HAHA. fact is this should be a great season, I have confidence that we will live up to our accomplishments last year as being the premier program in the state and we will adjust and overcome as needed. Better?

[TigerCoach]

If Shepas was coaching, the score would've been 90-28, with Gamble scoring midway through the 4th quarter before leaving.

What's up your ***? :offtopic:

[TigerVic]

Sorry, TigerCoach. Just was recalling in my head, but out loud, Shepas leaving the 1st string in a bit too long (cost us with Oliver in '01) as well as remembering his up-and-down the field games without much defensive concerns (except for 2002).

I agree it was off topic and I apologize.

[TigerCoach]

That's OK, Vic! Just wondering what brought that emotion out! LOL

You must not remember the Bob Commings era, when he would leave the starters in the entire game, no matter what the score. My brother-in-law played then and was a decent athlete. But, he played behind the Edwards twins (Terri and Darius) at LB and hardly ever saw the field.

[march]

I agree Slider.The problems have been consistent,and thats the concern.
Look,I hope they do work these issues out.We all want a state title here.
The issue now is wether or not this Woodson team is one of the best teams on our schedule all of a sudden.The coaching staff has a heck of a job to do this week,with having to change the plans they made way back when they wanted to use these first 2 games to bring the young guys along.
Now they must arrive...

GO MASSILLON

[ChronicTiger]

I agree Slider.The problems have been consistent,and thats the concern.
Look,I hope they do work these issues out.We all want a state title here.
The issue now is wether or not this Woodson team is one of the best teams on our schedule all of a sudden.The coaching staff has a heck of a job to do this week,with having to change the plans they made way back when they wanted to use these first 2 games to bring the young guys along.
Now they must arrive...

GO MASSILLON

:scratchchin:

[longtimefirsttime]

We didn't need to blitz Dover last year either, but we had 10 !!!!

:afro:

Everyone in the stadium knew the Tigers were going to beat North Park. The 2005 Dover team, while ultimately turning out to be underwhelming, got a lot of preseason press and even had a few people questioning whether the Tigers could hang with them. Factor that with Coach Stacy wanting to impress in his coaching debut and that's why we saw more blitzes in game one in 2005 than 2006.

[longtimefirsttime]

Another article on the Tigers D (after the North Park game):
http://indeonline.com/index.php?Category=2
(If the link doesn't match try Inde sports archives)

[DAWGH8R]

Once we fundamentally start tackling, we'll be OK !!!:cool2:

[monte81]

We will be fine!! Young players in there 1st game, seniors that feel the pressure of a complete season with the title! We forget the kids are 16-17 years old!!! We needed that game to settle in and let the young players feel the intensity. This week and thereafter will be solid. Remember that this senior class has only lost 3 games as a unit since freshman-- they will get the job done.

[Tiger_proud521]

I know that the talent of this team is no surprise to coach. They did pull out an upset but I dont think that this will be one of the top tier teams we will see this year at all. I do believe that they will give different looks and challenges that will be much needed to help us grow and become better for the onslaught of talent that follows them in the weeks to come. I feel this will be a better team then we saw in week one for sure but that is how it should be.
Sounds like they have a speedy back that will mow you down if YOU DONT WRAP HIM UP WHEN ATTEMPTING TO TACKLE. I think with our talent and depth we will have pulled out of range by the 3rd quarter. Having said that we cannot take this team lightly but I dont think that the Tigers will do that and nor will coach let them. For the first time in a long time I feel confident that our team can rise up to any occasion. I also think we need to as fans have a huge show of support by coming out to the game and being very loud. This team needs to be humbled when they walk into our house. They need to know that WE ARE MASSILLON!!

[Kamd50]

:iagree: Good Post!

[mike_da_man13]

"It would do Massillon good to get hit in the mouth when it's least expected. They played last week like they believe their hype, but they need a lot of improvement if they want to go anywhere this year. This week is a perfect time to start down that road." oil filter (yappi)

i agree with him if theres ever a team i would choose to knock us in the mouth this would be it (not a loss but a close game that gets blown wide open in the end)

anyway wv isnt ohio massillon by 35+