Greed as a motivation for outsourcing.

[Grizzlies]

Greed versus need. Does a company have to outsource in order to stay in business? Or is the company simply trying to increase its profits? Greed versus need. What is your position?

[MTown]

That's kind of a case by case basis, isn't it?

[massillon catholic]

Greed versus need. Does a company have to outsource in order to stay in business? Or is the company simply trying to increase its profits? Greed versus need. What is your position?

Companies have one responsibilty and that is to increase the profits of their shareholders.

[ohiomosquito]

Companies have one responsibilty and that is to increase the profits of their shareholders.

So if all companies say we can increase our profits by laying off everybody in the United States and moving the companies to Mexico, that's okay? There will be a few rich Americans, the owners of these Mexican companies and a few folks to work at the grocerie stores and the Toyota and Honda dealerships....

[MTown]

If you ran a corporation and were faced with the scenario that you were losing money, your company was getting beat by international competition, your greatest expense was labor costs, and you had an option to reduce that costs in half....what would you do?

[TigerCoach]

So if all companies say we can increase our profits by laying off everybody in the United States and moving the companies to Mexico, that's okay? There will be a few rich Americans, the owners of these Mexican companies and a few folks to work at the grocerie stores and the Toyota and Honda dealerships....

Buy stocks.

[SuperBran]

If you ran a corporation and were faced with the scenario that you were losing money, your company was getting beat by international competition, your greatest expense was labor costs, and you had an option to reduce that costs in half....what would you do?

:iagree:

[SuperBran]

So if all companies say we can increase our profits by laying off everybody in the United States and moving the companies to Mexico, that's okay?

if a company wants to do that, they are certainly entitled to do so. if people don't like it, then stop buying their products.

[Grizzlies]

if a company wants to do that, they are certainly entitled to do so. if people don't like it, then stop buying their products.

So what you’re saying is that you are FOR illegal immigrants working for American companies?

[massillon catholic]

So if all companies say we can increase our profits by laying off everybody in the United States and moving the companies to Mexico, that's okay? There will be a few rich Americans, the owners of these Mexican companies and a few folks to work at the grocerie stores and the Toyota and Honda dealerships....


Read my post! I never said it was OK, to do. I said that, that is their only responsibility. To increase profits for their shareholders.

[SuperBran]

So what you’re saying is that you are FOR illegal immigrants working for American companies?

not sure where that assumption came from.

what i'm saying is that if a company wants to ship jobs overseas, they have every right to do so.

there's a difference between saying that they have a right to do what they want with their company, and saying that it's the right thing to do.

it's easy to say what we would or would not do with our hypothetical companies.

do you think we should make it unlawful to move jobs out of the country? i'm sure that would last long.

[MTown]

Grizz....if you were faced with the scenario that I proposed...what would you do?

[Grizzlies]

Read my post! I never said it was OK, to do. I said that, that is their only responsibility. To increase profits for their shareholders.

Okay, so let me be sure I understand your position. You are saying that the only way an American now can make a reasonable living and save for retirement is to invest? You said "Companies have one responsibilty and that is to increase the profits of their shareholders.". So companies can step on Americans just so long as they increase the profits of those who had the money to invest into the company? Sounds like an un-American way to be. I thought to be an American you stood by and looked out for other Americans? I guess it now means to be and American you step on and squash Americans so long as you get your shareholders more money.

To be a succesful American.... Live in America, have an American based company but employ all foreign help to keep costs down and profits up. Putting food on the table for thousands of folks living in India and Mexico but those poor saps living in Brookpark Ohio, screw em! I have profits and shareholders to watch out for. Them poor saps should have bought stock..... Yea!!!! Sounds like an America I would want to fight and die for.

massillon catholic, you make me proud to be a fellow American :usflag:

[Grizzlies]

If you ran a corporation and were faced with the scenario that you were losing money, your company was getting beat by international competition, your greatest expense was labor costs, and you had an option to reduce that costs in half....what would you do?

Be an American and keep the work here in the United States. You first and foremost forget who got that company to where they are today, THE EMPLOYEES, not the managers and bosses. Chances are the company is not making money because the higher ups are living on far too high of salaries, taking to many vacations, and mismanaging the company's money.

If you are telling me that all of the American companies that are outsourcing work cannot survive if they did not do this then I would have to say you’re full of bologna! They do not do this to survive but to simply make more money!! Just like massillon catholic said, it's nothing about surviving it's about making the shareholders more money!

[MTown]

It ain't that easy, bro.

The one thing all Americans want is lower prices. That's why Walmart was so successful for so many years. But, to get their prices that low they undercut many, many businesses that employed Americans. Have you ever shopped at Walmart?

Are you currently driving a GM vehicle? Because you will now be paying a higher price for lower quality.

What if Exxon-Mobile decided to refine all of their gasoline off-shore...but as a result the price of gas would drop $.75? Would you be for that?


Look, no one wants to see people losing their jobs. It's never a good thing and it hurts the economy where the jobs leave. But, if you are running a corporation and the choice is between laying off part of your work force, or the company completely tanking, you've got to make a tough decision. I personally don't believe that every single time this situation occurs that it's a matter of corporate greed. GM is getting absolutely killed right now and it's fighting for it's survival. What happened to the workers in Brookpark sucks, but should the company keep losing money? In the long run, if the entire company tanks, the result is the same.

[MTown]

I will say one more thing. The goal of every company is to make as much money as possible. No one starts a business and says they just want to make enough to skate by.

[SuperBran]

They do not do this to survive but to simply make more money!! Just like massillon catholic said, it's nothing about surviving it's about making the shareholders more money!

and they have every right to do this. companies don't make decisions based on their desire to be pro-american....they base their decisions on profits. whether you like it or not, that's life. that's what companies do. they drive to make their shareholders happy.

again, if you're unhappy with it then just don't buy their products. if people stop buying their profits b/c they're made overseas, and they start to lose money, they'll get the message.

[Grizzlies]

not sure where that assumption came from.

do you think we should make it unlawful to move jobs out of the country? i'm sure that would last long.

Well guess what, companies across the United States every day hire Illegal Aliens because it saves them money. I'm assuming here but would have to guess that the majority of these companies are "Small Business" where a $1000 a month can make or break them. The big companies that are saving a few $1000 a month on salaries are the real problem as at the end of the month, it's not a few thousand that will make or break them like the little "small business". All of the illegal aliens that are working in the United States are being told that's it's illegal for them to do it and the company's are being told that it's illegal for them to hire them". Isn't that almost a flip-flop? Why should it be legal for large company's to hire people from other country's to do their "middle class" work and illegal for small company's to hire people from other country's to do their middle class work? Regardless of whether or not the employee is a legal American or not, it's saving the company money. The money needs to stay in the United States and the company's need to employ Americans. If they cannot do it and survive then we as a Super Power have already failed! Some Super Power we are. You are saying that we must have foreign help or else we cannot make it!

[Grizzlies]

read the post: Japanese Cars Earn $2,400 More Profit Each. Sounds like to me Americans are greedy!!! So greedy that we are going to drive this "Super Power" nation right into the ground.

[MTown]

You are talking about two different things. Hiring illegal immigrants in the US is not the same as a company opening a plant in Mexico and hiring Mexican citizens to do the work.

[MTown]

read the post: Japanese Cars Earn $2,400 More Profit Each. Sounds like to me Americans are greedy!!! So greedy that we are going to drive this "Super Power" nation right into the ground.


Do you know what makes up a majority of that difference? Employee wages and retirement benefits.

Unless we change our free market economy, Americans are going to be inclined to buy cheaper products, regardless of the nationality of the company.

[massillon catholic]

Okay, so let me be sure I understand your position. You are saying that the only way an American now can make a reasonable living and save for retirement is to invest? You said "Companies have one responsibilty and that is to increase the profits of their shareholders.". So companies can step on Americans just so long as they increase the profits of those who had the money to invest into the company? Sounds like an un-American way to be. I thought to be an American you stood by and looked out for other Americans? I guess it now means to be and American you step on and squash Americans so long as you get your shareholders more money.

To be a succesful American.... Live in America, have an American based company but employ all foreign help to keep costs down and profits up. Putting food on the table for thousands of folks living in India and Mexico but those poor saps living in Brookpark Ohio, screw em! I have profits and shareholders to watch out for. Them poor saps should have bought stock..... Yea!!!! Sounds like an America I would want to fight and die for.

massillon catholic, you make me proud to be a fellow American :usflag:

I didn't make the rules or even say that I agree with them. I'm just telling you the way it is.

[SuperBran]

Why should it be legal for large company's to hire people from other country's to do their "middle class" work and illegal for small company's to hire people from other country's to do their middle class work?

well, the simple answer is that those foreign worker for the large company are actually working in their country, while those foreign workers for the small country are working in OUR country. believe it or not, we have laws on immigration, which is why there's a difference. you simply cannot make it illegal to export jobs.

The money needs to stay in the United States and the company's need to employ Americans.

again, companies will do what drives profit.

If they cannot do it and survive then we as a Super Power have already failed!

they can keep jobs in the u.s. and survive. they just choose to make more money elsewhere

You are saying that we must have foreign help or else we cannot make it!

if by "you" you are referring to me, you are wrong.

again, i'm NOT arguing whether it's right or wrong. i can't say that enough times. i'm simply stating that if companyies want to ship jobs out of this country they have every right to do so.

[Grizzlies]

I will say one more thing. The goal of every company is to make as much money as possible. No one starts a business and says they just want to make enough to skate by.

Man, you do not understand what I'm saying at all. Yes, I understand that the goal of every company is to make money, lots of it! But, when it's big companies that have decided that on paper they can save tons of money if they were to lay off thousands of American employees and hire thousands of employees from India that I have a problem with. These are companies like JP Morgan Chase, Dell Computers, big companies.... these company's are not just "skating by". They are bringing down huge profits and continue to do so by outsourcing and saving tons. I could almost understand if it was a small business do it to try and stay afloat but not big company's that are not having problems. As far as Ford or GM, I think it is simply the fact that salaries have gotten to big and quality has gotten to small. It's the old saying I learned years ago working for a large company like Ford.... It's quantity not quality that counts. WRONG.... That theory is what is sinking our auto industry.

[Grizzlies]

if by "you" you are referring to me, you are wrong.

again, i'm NOT arguing whether it's right or wrong. i can't say that enough times. i'm simply stating that if companyies want to ship jobs out of this country they have every right to do so.[/QUOTE]

Superbran, then I will agree to agree with you. The sad part is that again, America's greed is going to eventually kill this country. I don't know if it should be illegal for American company's to outsource work but it should be such a tax burden to do it that company's choose to keep the work here. We must making changes before it's to late.

[Grizzlies]

Do you know what makes up a majority of that difference? Employee wages and retirement benefits.

Unless we change our free market economy, Americans are going to be inclined to buy cheaper products, regardless of the nationality of the company.

Made in Japan... yea, we have been buying them for a long time now....

[MTown]

Have you seen what's happened to Dell's sales over the past couple of years?

I could be wrong in some cases, but I would think that sending jobs overseas would be a last resort for American companies because of a potential PR backlash. If a company is making good money and sends jobs elsewhere just to get fat, the American public is going to stop buying their products.