The 2008 Race for President.

[Spize]

Anyone else wish this wasn't a topic that was so big right now that it covered 50% of the news. Can't we at least wait until after the 2007 general election to start the political crapola of 2008? I mean really, I love politics and I am already sick of hearing Guiliani, Clinton, McCain, Obama, Edwards, Mit...

Dear God, I have a whole year and half left of this? :wtf: :help2:

[The Voice]

Anythings better than watching bush single handely destroying the country.
Come on spize; we're all just trying to get out of this really sucky present, and the best way to do that is to look into the future.

tv:pimp:

[Spize]

The present is sucky? Funny... most of America isn't noticing, yet the media says everything is horrible right now, so I guess what is what matters... right?

[The Voice]

Gee,, what country do you live in?

[massillon catholic]

Anythings better than watching bush single handely destroying the country.
Come on spize; we're all just trying to get out of this really sucky present, and the best way to do that is to look into the future.

tv:pimp:

The stock market is at an all-time high. Not bad for "sucky present"! Don't blame Bush because you missed the ride!

[CarlE]

Anythings better than watching bush single handely destroying the country.
Come on spize; we're all just trying to get out of this really sucky present, and the best way to do that is to look into the future.

tv:pimp:

The problem is when I look "in the future" I see nothing but the past in the form of one Billary Clinton. Now THAT is scary.

[xtiger]

Haven't we had enough of these two HILLBILLIES?
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5348/hillbillydn7.jpg

[The Voice]

Alright.. class is in session.. carle you are right on the mark.. In my opinion; the 2008 election roster looks like shit on both sides.. except for maybe Rudy..we'll see..Edwards has some fresh idea's but I don't think he can hang.... In addition, this country is not ready for a black president, We may be ready for a woman, but it sure as hell ain't the BIG 'H'; what a joke.. massillon catholic.. you missed the ride too dude.. wasn't that you that I saw the other day bending over at the gas pumps.. was that your kid the other day that they were having a funeral for after he/she died for no apparent reason in Iraq. It certainly wasn't georges kid..Sure there are some high signs, but they're probably a cycle; which really has nothing to do with the White House. This country is under corporate control. and the middle class no longer has an identity. Take off the rose colored glasses.

tv:pimp:

[orangeblood]

Alright.. class is in session.. carle you are right on the mark.. In my opinion; the 2008 election roster looks like shit on both sides.. except for maybe Rudy..we'll see..Edwards has some fresh idea's but I don't think he can hang.... In addition, this country is not ready for a black president, We may be ready for a woman, but it sure as hell ain't the BIG 'H'; what a joke.. massillon catholic.. you missed the ride too dude.. wasn't that you that I saw the other day bending over at the gas pumps.. was that your kid the other day that they were having a funeral for after he/she died for no apparent reason in Iraq. It certainly wasn't georges kid..Sure there are some high signs, but they're probably a cycle; which really has nothing to do with the White House. This country is under corporate control. and the middle class no longer has an identity. Take off the rose colored glasses.

tv:pimp:A fine post, correct on almost all counts!

[CarlE]

A fine post, correct on almost all counts!

How can you say that? He agreed with me. You've NEVER agreed with me!! LOL

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Ford's closing their Cleveland plant, foreclosures are already at historic levels and increasing daily, health care costs are out of control, immigration is out of control, property taxes and home owners insurance is increasing at rates that wage increases will never be able to offset, and there's actually people out there that think that just because the Dow Jones continues to rise and unemployment is low, our economy is good and our President is doing a good job.
Not so fast my friends!
My portfolio which includes Exxon, Mobil and 3 companys that's work force is made up of 80-85% mexican employees here on "guest worker visas" is doing splendid. "IF" changes are made by the government that directly affects those entities in my portfolio I like many other investors will be forced to make some changes. Until that day comes, the economy will remain strong for the "haves", and suck for the "have nots". The gap between the so called "wealthy" and the so called "middle class" is widening by the minute, and todays "poor" is made up of a group of people formerly known as the "middle class"!
I really don't know who will be our next President, and I'm not really sure it even matters anymore because our two party system has become more divided then our fore fathers could have ever imagined and the practice of governing according to the wishes of special interests and lobbyists that dominates politics today would have been laughed at if even suggested as a possibility back in the day!

[Obie Wan]

The gap between the so called "wealthy" and the so called "middle class" is widening by the minute...
Which makes perfect sense, and is absolutely no indication of any undesirable income distribution. The "income gap" is a political rather than an analytical tool. Take this example: Suppose you made $100,000 in 2005 and I made $50,000. In 2006, you made $150,000 and I made $60,000. The gap between our incomes has grown substantially - but am I worse off?

todays "poor" is made up of a group of people formerly known as the "middle class"!
Such is the nature of poverty. Studies have shown that poverty is not a chronic condition. Those who are poor this year are not the same people who were poor 5 years ago, and are not the same people who will be poor in 5 years. Sure there are lot of poor people who used to be middle class - but there are just as many in the middle class who used to be poor.

[massillon catholic]

Which makes perfect sense, and is absolutely no indication of any undesirable income distribution. The "income gap" is a political rather than an analytical tool. Take this example: Suppose you made $100,000 in 2005 and I made $50,000. In 2006, you made $150,000 and I made $60,000. The gap between our incomes has grown substantially - but am I worse off?


Such is the nature of poverty. Studies have shown that poverty is not a chronic condition. Those who are poor this year are not the same people who were poor 5 years ago, and are not the same people who will be poor in 5 years. Sure there are lot of poor people who used to be middle class - but there are just as many in the middle class who used to be poor.

Its all jibberish that the politicians use to confuse the general public. The bottom -line is, is if you have a four-year degree you will do fine. This business about plants closing is bad for those that work there. However, there is still an over-all increase in jobs. The politicians always want to dwell on the negative. Its the doom and gloom mentality and the attempt to place fear in the minds of the public. The stock market isn't going to continue and climb if companies aren't making money. Companies can't make money if no-one is buying their product or service. People can't buy their product or service it they don't have a job and money. Therefore, if companies are making money, people are spending money, hence, people are making and spending money!

[Dr Strangemind]

So do you take money from those who earned it and give it to those who didn't?

That just creates an entitlement mentality.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Obie Wan,
In an attempt to answer your question I can only say that there are several factors that would enter into whether or not "you" would be worse off than "I".
For instance. In your analogy "your" income increased 10,000.00 and "mine" increased 50,000.00 right?
I suppose the answer lies somewhere in considering the increases in the cost of health care, whether or not you and your family's contribution towards your health insurance has changed, or even become 100% your responsibility instead of employer paid or a substantial contribution from them, whether or not your prescription plan and subsequent costs are higher, whether your cost of living as it pertains to gas, utilities, food and entertainment have increased, whether your property taxes increased, and whether or not your insurances have increased.
If those costs have increased as substantially for "you" as they have for the folks in my area, then I would submit that "your" 10,000.00 increase in income will pale in comparison to "my" 50,000.00 increase in income thus widening the gap.
For instance, I have 2 residences that are occupied by tenants that signed lease purchase agreements in june and july of 2005. At the time of the agreements both family's had down payments equal to the amount that I was asking for and both family's had income verification worthy of financing at the time. The problem in both cases when it came time to buy a home was the fact that both family's had recently relocated to my area from the midwest and they didn't have enough time on their jobs, or in this area to get a conventional loan.
All parties were convinced that after 2 years at my residences both family's would be able to purchase their homes. Unfortunately as of today neither family will be able to do so and I'm doing everything I can to assist them in the quest to become home owners. The problem is the property taxes and home owners insurances have increased to a point of making the homes unaffordable even though both family's are making more money today then they did 2 years ago.
The property taxes were 1,740.00 and 2,135.00 on the properties in 2005. Today those same property taxes have increased to 4,350.00 and 5,337.00.
The insurance on the homes has gone from 1,820.00 and 2,240.00 to 3,245.00 and 3,950.00 today.
Take those increases along with all of the other increases in the aforementioned "costs of living" and neither family can afford to buy their homes.
I think these examples are quite possibly representative of the situation around the country but perhaps I'm wrong and it's regional or more local. Either way it's a cold hard fact of the way things are for so many today.

[The Voice]

wow! details details details .. I better go get a 'BS" degree so I can understand what everybody is talking about.:rockin:

tv

[Obie Wan]

The problem is the property taxes and home owners insurances have increased to a point of making the homes unaffordable even though both family's are making more money today then they did 2 years ago.
The property taxes were 1,740.00 and 2,135.00 on the properties in 2005. Today those same property taxes have increased to 4,350.00 and 5,337.00.
The insurance on the homes has gone from 1,820.00 and 2,240.00 to 3,245.00 and 3,950.00 today.
Why did the taxes to go up? Did the properties appreciate? Did the tax rates increase? Were the properties reassessed? How much are these houses worth now?

[massillon catholic]

Obie Wan,
In an attempt to answer your question I can only say that there are several factors that would enter into whether or not "you" would be worse off than "I".
For instance. In your analogy "your" income increased 10,000.00 and "mine" increased 50,000.00 right?
I suppose the answer lies somewhere in considering the increases in the cost of health care, whether or not you and your family's contribution towards your health insurance has changed, or even become 100% your responsibility instead of employer paid or a substantial contribution from them, whether or not your prescription plan and subsequent costs are higher, whether your cost of living as it pertains to gas, utilities, food and entertainment have increased, whether your property taxes increased, and whether or not your insurances have increased.
If those costs have increased as substantially for "you" as they have for the folks in my area, then I would submit that "your" 10,000.00 increase in income will pale in comparison to "my" 50,000.00 increase in income thus widening the gap.
For instance, I have 2 residences that are occupied by tenants that signed lease purchase agreements in june and july of 2005. At the time of the agreements both family's had down payments equal to the amount that I was asking for and both family's had income verification worthy of financing at the time. The problem in both cases when it came time to buy a home was the fact that both family's had recently relocated to my area from the midwest and they didn't have enough time on their jobs, or in this area to get a conventional loan.
All parties were convinced that after 2 years at my residences both family's would be able to purchase their homes. Unfortunately as of today neither family will be able to do so and I'm doing everything I can to assist them in the quest to become home owners. The problem is the property taxes and home owners insurances have increased to a point of making the homes unaffordable even though both family's are making more money today then they did 2 years ago.
The property taxes were 1,740.00 and 2,135.00 on the properties in 2005. Today those same property taxes have increased to 4,350.00 and 5,337.00.
The insurance on the homes has gone from 1,820.00 and 2,240.00 to 3,245.00 and 3,950.00 today.
Take those increases along with all of the other increases in the aforementioned "costs of living" and neither family can afford to buy their homes.
I think these examples are quite possibly representative of the situation around the country but perhaps I'm wrong and it's regional or more local. Either way it's a cold hard fact of the way things are for so many today.

Where is your area? I don't know of any area in the US that has had that type of increase in tax valuations during the time period that you have mentioned, maybe Scottsdale, AZ and that's it. Unless, there was some major additions and/or home improvments, I would be appealing the increase. That is crazy!!

[Tiger54]

The stock market is at an all-time high. Not bad for "sucky present"! Don't blame Bush because you missed the ride!
Ask the people who work(ed) at the Hoover Company or the Ford Motor Company in Cleveland, et al if they care how wonderful the stock market is going. If you are worrying about losing your house, you don't care how well the stockholders are doing.

[Obie Wan]

If you are worrying about losing your house, you don't care how well the stockholders are doing.
You do if you're one of them. Most adults own stocks. So yes, the stock market does affect them, irrespective of their employment status.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Obie Wan,
There's a couple factors for the enormous increases. First, the property taxes that were on both properties when I bought them in 2004 were even lower then the 2005 taxes that I mentioned in my previous post. When I bought the properties they went from a "Home owners exemption" status of being taxed 25% below appraised value to me having to pay 100% of the new appraised value which increased when I purchased the homes.
The exemption is only applied to houses that are owner occupied which is a nice benefit to all Florida residents that do reside in their homes, but it doesn't apply to rental properties. That much I understood and I have no qualms about, however, the huge increase in taxes have been a result in increases by our state government and not by any increase in the overall value of the property. This has been going on for 2 years now and it's completely out of control to the point where Charlie Crist (our new governor) promissed to make changes to the current tax structure and to address the home owners insurance crisis that this state faces as soon as he took office. Unfortunately the Florida house just ended their current session without any progress on either matter.
Secondly, the insurance increases have come due to the requests to the state for as much as 100% increases in the premiums due to so many natural disasters around the country and the state has granted Allstate, St. Farm and many others increases up to 85%.
The 2 homes I'm referring to in my case were purchased by me in 2004 for 285,000.00 and 305,000.00. The real estate market was taking a significant hit in our area during that time and my investments appeared to be solid at the time. However, right now my homes would be lucky to bring those same amounts due to the current market. If I can't find a way to help my tenants purchase the homes at the minimal increase that I sold them for in 2005 then I'll continue their lease at the same monthly amount and sit on the properties until the market changes. That will work for me, but I just don't know how many people can survive these kind of enormous increases just to own a home.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

MC!
Bradenton/Sarasota Fl. area. I'm just glad I don't live in CarlE's posh community! :smartass:

[section3]

how much does $300,000 buy you in sarasota as far as size of house?? because up here thats a mansion. massillon doesn't even have listings in the $300,000's unless your in jackson. my wife and i feel we are doing alright for ourselves but would never consider a house like that even if rates were low. i think you are seeing the adjustable rates catching up with all those people that felt like they could manage. just check out the sheriffs sale web site. we live in a society today that likes to complain about the cost of living but yet still owns 3 vehicles an suv or a boat and doesn't grasp the value of a dollar. we spend $4.00 for a cup of coffee when we could buy a pound of coffee at the grocery for the same price and then complain about no extra money. heck we complain about illegals and then the dems say if it weren't for illegals no one would work the labor jobs. that americans won't do it. if it comes down to no job or picking up cigarette butts for minimum wage, give me the gloves. and if i can't afford my house i'll find a smaller one, and start living the american dream all over. and if the rich keep getting richer than all i ask is tell me how you did it and how do i jump on the train so i can ride with you.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

The "creative" financing being secured by fly by night mortgage brokers at subprime rates is the number one cause of the huge increase in foreclosures.
The homes I've mentioned are 2000 sq. ft. and 2200 sq. ft. and are in close proximity to the median cost for my area which is around 290,000.00.

[TigerVic]

No matter who was president, there'd be pros and cons. The predominantly liberal media is bent on showing everything bad about Bush (or anyone/thing "conservative") and much of the public believes everything they hear from them and ignores everything the media ignores.

Has Bush made mistakes? Absolutely. But so would any one else in the office.

The most hated person in the world is almost always the president of the USA.

[massillon catholic]

MC!
Bradenton/Sarasota Fl. area. I'm just glad I don't live in CarlE's posh community! :smartass:

My family has condos in Sarasota and Siesta Key and it is my understanding that the values have dropped signicantly. Two main reasons, the hurricanes and new construction where someone can buy a new condo, for less than an old unit. Maybe this doesn't apply to homes, as compared to condo's

[massillon catholic]

No matter who was president, there'd be pros and cons. The predominantly liberal media is bent on showing everything bad about Bush (or anyone/thing "conservative") and much of the public believes everything they hear from them and ignores everything the media ignores.

Has Bush made mistakes? Absolutely. But so would any one else in the office.

The most hated person in the world is almost always the president of the USA.

Harry Truman had the least favorably rating of any President, including Bush and Carter at 23%. Now the NY Times is calling for Pres like Truman. Maybe making unpopular decisions aren't always so bad as they seem when they happen. History will be the judge.

[Grizzlies]

Ford's closing their Cleveland plant, foreclosures are already at historic levels and increasing daily, health care costs are out of control, immigration is out of control, property taxes and home owners insurance is increasing at rates that wage increases will never be able to offset, and there's actually people out there that think that just because the Dow Jones continues to rise and unemployment is low, our economy is good and our President is doing a good job.
Not so fast my friends!
My portfolio which includes Exxon, Mobil and 3 companys that's work force is made up of 80-85% mexican employees here on "guest worker visas" is doing splendid. "IF" changes are made by the government that directly affects those entities in my portfolio I like many other investors will be forced to make some changes. Until that day comes, the economy will remain strong for the "haves", and suck for the "have nots". The gap between the so called "wealthy" and the so called "middle class" is widening by the minute, and todays "poor" is made up of a group of people formerly known as the "middle class"!
I really don't know who will be our next President, and I'm not really sure it even matters anymore because our two party system has become more divided then our fore fathers could have ever imagined and the practice of governing according to the wishes of special interests and lobbyists that dominates politics today would have been laughed at if even suggested as a possibility back in the day!


Well said!

[npaflas]

Republians are for rich folks or something would be done about the prices of gas and every thing else. It is getting out of hand. THE BOTTOM LINE going to get worst before it gets better gas going up to 4 dollars a gallon.

[werperry]

Ford's closing their Cleveland plant, foreclosures are already at historic levels and increasing daily, health care costs are out of control, immigration is out of control, property taxes and home owners insurance is increasing at rates that wage increases will never be able to offset, and there's actually people out there that think that just because the Dow Jones continues to rise and unemployment is low, our economy is good and our President is doing a good job.
Not so fast my friends!
My portfolio which includes Exxon, Mobil and 3 companys that's work force is made up of 80-85% mexican employees here on "guest worker visas" is doing splendid. "IF" changes are made by the government that directly affects those entities in my portfolio I like many other investors will be forced to make some changes. Until that day comes, the economy will remain strong for the "haves", and suck for the "have nots". The gap between the so called "wealthy" and the so called "middle class" is widening by the minute, and todays "poor" is made up of a group of people formerly known as the "middle class"!
I really don't know who will be our next President, and I'm not really sure it even matters anymore because our two party system has become more divided then our fore fathers could have ever imagined and the practice of governing according to the wishes of special interests and lobbyists that dominates politics today would have been laughed at if even suggested as a possibility back in the day!

:thumbsup:

[werperry]

Republians are for rich folks or something would be done about the prices of gas and every thing else. It is getting out of hand. THE BOTTOM LINE going to get worst before it gets better gas going up to 4 dollars a gallon.

give me a freakin' break. i'm tired of the democratic party line about "republicans are for rich folks" crappola...wake the hell up and realize your democratic party IS NOT for the working class either. they are out for themselves.

why is the price of gas skyrocketing under a democratic-led congress?

i'm NOT blaming the democrats...i'm just trying to illustrate how assinine it is blaming political parties for 'gas-gouging'...

sheesh....

[section3]

if everything is so doom and gloom this decade so far under bush, then what decade was america so much better off??

1920's/30's world war II starts, the depression, you still had your rich-rockefellers, fords, firestones etc.

1940's pearl harbor, world war II, cold war starts , korean war

1950's korean war, cold war

1960's asassinations, cuban missile crisis, bay of pigs, vietnam (which kennedy got us started into, always wondered how he could have gotten us out of it)

1970's vietnam, impeached president, escalating fuel crisis, iranian hostages

1980's cold war ends, reagan and bush in office for the decade

1990's military cuts, embarassed by terrorists- world trade center, somalia, haiti, dotcom busts, nafta, iraq war

2000's 9/11 , iraq, home market bust, rising fuel cost, manufacturing sector loss

i just do not see much differance from 1 decade to the next. its just now that i do not feel our younger generation looks to the future, but lives in the here and now, spending foolishly.

[obie7661]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/FLKossacks/cartoon.gif

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Section 3

Perhaps our "younger generation" is learning by the example our government is setting when it comes to "spending foolishly"!
It's one thing for a person to spend more then he/she makes, live beyond their means, and mortgage their future at extraordinary rates of interest, but it's quite another for our elected officials to do the same at the expense of all of us!

[obie7661]

http://www.floridatoday.com/blogs/jeffparkertoonsin/uploaded_images/061030c-756295.gif

[SuperBran]

give me a freakin' break. i'm tired of the democratic party line about "republicans are for rich folks" crappola...wake the hell up and realize your democratic party IS NOT for the working class either. they are out for themselves.

why is the price of gas skyrocketing under a democratic-led congress?

i'm NOT blaming the democrats...i'm just trying to illustrate how assinine it is blaming political parties for 'gas-gouging'...

sheesh....

didn't the steep upward trend in gas prices start when a republican president entered the office?

didn't the prices begin to skyrocket under a republican-led congress?

[SuperBran]

No matter who was president, there'd be pros and cons. The predominantly liberal media is bent on showing everything bad about Bush (or anyone/thing "conservative") and much of the public believes everything they hear from them and ignores everything the media ignores.

Has Bush made mistakes? Absolutely. But so would any one else in the office.

The most hated person in the world is almost always the president of the USA.

dear god. are you friggin' kidding me??? bush deserves EVERY bit of criticism that he receives.

even republicans have a hard time defending bush for some of the knuckle-headed things he does. if we had a conservative media then all we'd see is soldiers with puppies in iraq.

i'm so sick of people making stupid generalizations like "well, it's b/c of the liberals" or "if it wasn't for those republicans." the reason nothing ever gets accomplished is b/c everyone spends every minute of their day pointing fingers.

[OTC TIGER]

[QUOTE=SuperBran;49765]didn't the steep upward trend in gas prices start when a republican president entered the office?


Didn't the steep decline in the top marginal tax rate of 70% to a top marginal
rate of 35% today start with a Republican President (Reagan 1981)

Didn't the steep decline in interest rates of 16% in 1981 to 5.25% today start with a Republican President
(Reagan 1981)

[OTC TIGER]

didn't the prices begin to skyrocket under a republican-led congress?

O.K. who's fault is it that Copper prices are up 275% since 2004...Alluminum is
up 86% since 2004...Orange Juice Futures are up 230% since 2004...Corn is up 45% in 1 year...Let me guess it was the Republican led Congress :stars:

[npaflas]

Superbran you are right. And he can control the price of gas. Heck we got enough over here to lower it but he won't use it.

[CarlE]

Superbran you are right. And he can control the price of gas. Heck we got enough over here to lower it but he won't use it.

The President can control the price of gas? Nicky what freaking world do you live in, son?

[SuperBran]

O.K. who's fault is it that Copper prices are up 275% since 2004...Alluminum is
up 86% since 2004...Orange Juice Futures are up 230% since 2004...Corn is up 45% in 1 year...Let me guess it was the Republican led Congress :stars:

my post was meant as a joke.

[OTC TIGER]

:thumbsup: :smile:

[section3]

Perhaps our "younger generation" is learning by the example our government is setting when it comes to "spending foolishly"!
It's one thing for a person to spend more then he/she makes, live beyond their means, and mortgage their future at extraordinary rates of interest, but it's quite another for our elected officials to do the same at the expense of all of us!



i totally agree that our government completely wastes money. the fact is when the money comes to our area its great and we deserve it, but if it goes somewhere else its pork spending. we expect a million dollars for the tremont bridge. regula brought in millions for the canal trail. none of which means anything to someone in florida. our city gets close to $800,000 in grant money and yet a non profit group has to fight tooth and nail to get $2000.00 of that money but yet we can pay $200,000 for the hampton out of that money because thats the deal that was made. it wouldn't bother me a bit if the federal govt. curbed the grant money or distributed it better. heck our city govt. has extended ourselves millions in dollars in debt buying up land and selling it for pennies on the dollar. super 8 bought their land on the cheap then sold it to the drug store for over a million dollars but we are still paying for the original loan. deville bought his property on the cheap and just auctioned off the plaza for over 3 million dollars and my grandkids will still be paying off that loan. but thats called progress here.

[orangeblood]

The President can control the price of gas? Nicky what freaking world do you live in, son?I am absolutely convinced the word has been passed to the oil company execs that they can do what they want and nothing will happen. Gas was approx. $1.46 cents per gallon when Dubya was originally elected.

I cannot wait until 2008 to vote for the Dem candidate.

[MTown]

I think Bush should just tell those guys in Opec to drop the price of oil back down to around $35-$40 where it used to be. Since he controls gas prices, he can order those countries to sell for less than what China, Russia, Great Brittain, and France pay.

[longtimefirsttime]

Is this a goof or will Christopher Walken enter the race?
http://www.walkenforpres.com/politics.html

[Tiger54]

I am absolutely convinced the word has been passed to the oil company execs that they can do what they want and nothing will happen. Gas was approx. $1.46 cents per gallon when Dubya was originally elected.

I cannot wait until 2008 to vote for the Dem candidate.

The thing that ticks me off is that supposedly there is no way to control the gas prices. Dubya tells us to live economically. Well, I use a tank of gas every week just going to WORK to pay the rest of my bills. And in the meantime, the gas companies are making record-breaking PROFITS! Tell us that the gas prices really NEED to be that high. When the gas companies are making profits off of us. Who can afford to fill their tanks any more?

[OTC TIGER]

I cannot wait until 2008 to vote for the Dem candidate.

You obviously can't wait to pay more in taxes :huh:

[orangeblood]

You obviously can't wait to pay more in taxes :huh:If that happens, and I do not believe it will, at least we will get something for those taxes; perhaps other than a war in Iraq we should not be involved in...which is also bankrupting us.

Let's get out of there and pay off our debts, and perhaps taxes can be lowered for real. Ahh.... I am just blowing smoke here, that makes too much sense, so why would we do it??:help:

[OTC TIGER]

[QUOTE=orangeblood;50472]If that happens, and I do not believe it will, at least we will get something for those taxes; perhaps other than a war in Iraq we should not be involved in...which is also bankrupting us.

Let's get out of there and pay off our debts, and perhaps taxes can be lowered for real. Ahh.... I am just blowing smoke here, that makes too much sense, so why would we do it

Tax collections for an owner / operated business hit a record in April up 30%

Withholding taxes at lower rates are up 18%...

It's amazing what happens when you CUT TAXES

[werperry]

didn't the steep upward trend in gas prices start when a republican president entered the office?

didn't the prices begin to skyrocket under a republican-led congress?

what's your definition of "skyrocket" ?? seems to me the $3.45/gallon i just paid for in chicago is under a democratic-led congress... :wtf: :tounge:



...regardless... NO ONE INDIVIDUAL OR POLITICAL PARTY controls the price of gas...

[werperry]

Perhaps our "younger generation" is learning by the example our government is setting when it comes to "spending foolishly"!
It's one thing for a person to spend more then he/she makes, live beyond their means, and mortgage their future at extraordinary rates of interest, but it's quite another for our elected officials to do the same at the expense of all of us!



i totally agree that our government completely wastes money. the fact is when the money comes to our area its great and we deserve it, but if it goes somewhere else its pork spending. we expect a million dollars for the tremont bridge. regula brought in millions for the canal trail. none of which means anything to someone in florida. our city gets close to $800,000 in grant money and yet a non profit group has to fight tooth and nail to get $2000.00 of that money but yet we can pay $200,000 for the hampton out of that money because thats the deal that was made. it wouldn't bother me a bit if the federal govt. curbed the grant money or distributed it better. heck our city govt. has extended ourselves millions in dollars in debt buying up land and selling it for pennies on the dollar. super 8 bought their land on the cheap then sold it to the drug store for over a million dollars but we are still paying for the original loan. deville bought his property on the cheap and just auctioned off the plaza for over 3 million dollars and my grandkids will still be paying off that loan. but thats called progress here.

wonderful post!

[section3]

a German company announced plans to build a 3 billion dollar steel mill plant in Alabama and its all Bush's faulty !!!! that dirty republican !!!

[werperry]

I am absolutely convinced the word has been passed to the oil company execs that they can do what they want and nothing will happen. Gas was approx. $1.46 cents per gallon when Dubya was originally elected.

I cannot wait until 2008 to vote for the Dem candidate.

what was china & india's growth between 2000-to-present?

how many gasoline refinery's have been built in those 7 years?

thank you...

[werperry]

If that happens, and I do not believe it will, at least we will get something for those taxes


OMG... i just soiled myself... :lol: :lol:

[orangeblood]

what was china & india's growth between 2000-to-present?

how many gasoline refinery's have been built in those 7 years?

thank you...How much gasoline is being produced by our refineries now? Are they running full tilt or is production being managed to bump up prices?

What is the situation on natural reserves of oil in China? Do they have enough to supply most of their needs or not?

Finally, I know Dick Cheyney used to work for Enron. What was the name of the oil company Bush worked for in his younger days? I forget.

Btw, how much did America's oil companies contribute to Bush's last campaign? I still think Bush should stick to making Bush's Baked Beans.

We will have plenty of gas then!!:oops2:

[orangeblood]

OMG... i just soiled myself... :lol: :lol:At least, since you are in Illinois, we will not get the fumes...

[CarlE]

Finally, I know Dick Cheyney used to work for Enron.


That's funny. I read the book "Conspiracy of Fools", which tells of the Enron stock and financial fraud debacle three times and I don't EVER remember reading Vice-President Cheney's name in there. Now, stop being foolish. werperry is making you look bad.

[npaflas]

Ok then why is it that we had enough oil fields over here to lower the gas and he won't use them . It was in the paper

[orangeblood]

[QUOTE]

Tax collections for an owner / operated business hit a record in April up 30%

Withholding taxes at lower rates are up 18%...

It's amazing what happens when you CUT TAXESWhere are these tax cuts? I surely have not seen much in the way of tax cuts... Oops, I forgot, they are for the upper income groups. It helps to make over $200, 000 per year. (Especially those that live in the Tampa/ St. Petersburg area. http://www.travel-caribbean.com/villarentals/villas/palmtreeimages/IMG_0365.jpg

[orangeblood]

Amazing what you can find on the internet. This is for Werperry, our Bush friend. It is kind of dated, but you get the idea.
http://www.polianna.com/2005/09/images/8-9-High-Gas-Prices.jpg

[OTC TIGER]

[QUOTE=OTC TIGER;50484]Where are these tax cuts? I surely have not seen much in the way of tax cuts... Oops, I forgot, they are for the upper income groups. It helps to make over $200, 000 per year. (Especially those that live in the Tampa/ St. Petersburg area. http://www.travel-caribbean.com/villarentals/villas/palmtreeimages/IMG_0365.jpg

Absolutely laughable...People making 200k or more represents less than 4%
of taxpayers in the US...That 200k earner is likely signing YOUR paycheck..
it would be wise to let he / she keep more so you can get more..make sense :doh: BTW ask the 200k earner if they received a 1000 per child tax
credit or better yet the wonderful earned income credit

[SuperBran]

what's your definition of "skyrocket" ?? seems to me the $3.45/gallon i just paid for in chicago is under a democratic-led congress... :wtf: :tounge:



...regardless... NO ONE INDIVIDUAL OR POLITICAL PARTY controls the price of gas...

you obviously didn't read my follow-up post which said that i was only joking.

[SuperBran]

a couple of years ago i spoke with the general counsel for one of our oil companies, and he provided information that answers your questions.....

How much gasoline is being produced by our refineries now? Are they running full tilt or is production being managed to bump up prices?

our refineries are producing as much as they can.

What is the situation on natural reserves of oil in China? Do they have enough to supply most of their needs or not?

china once was able to handle their own needs, and was in a situation where they could still export some oil. now, however, they are consuming more than what they have and are competing with the u.s. for oil.

the one thing that i did learn was that it costs so much money to keep exisiting refineries up-to-date on environmental regulations, that it's literally not an option for many companies to build new refineries.

[CarlE]

a couple of years ago i spoke with the general counsel for one of our oil companies, and he provided information that answers your questions.....



our refineries are producing as much as they can.



china once was able to handle their own needs, and was in a situation where they could still export some oil. now, however, they are consuming more than what they have and are competing with the u.s. for oil.

the one thing that i did learn was that it costs so much money to keep exisiting refineries up-to-date on environmental regulations, that it's literally not an option for many companies to build new refineries.

Did you read that, OrangeBlood? Environmental regulations. From your boy Al Gore and the rest of you commies. So, the next time you want to bitch about U.S. oil production, go find a tree, grab one of those idiot brothers of yours hugging it, and ask them to relieve the regulations on refineries, OK?

[Smitty]

... Environmental regulations. From your boy Al Gore ....

... and the choir sang "AMEN".

Al Gore and his daddy own more "big oil" company stock than any other political family in the USA. Look it up. They've got MUCH (money) to gain as the price of gas goes up.

[SuperBran]

... and the choir sang "AMEN".

Al Gore and his daddy own more "big oil" company stock than any other political family in the USA. Look it up.

do you happen to have a link to the info? i'm interested in checking it out.

[orangeblood]

Well, anyway, the above stuff is not going to matter much. In 2008 you can see what is going to happen...a Democratic victory. The momentum is building. I am so happy you guys enjoy the record oil company profits of the Bush era. I simply do not.

[werperry]

head still in the sand OB? :zzz:

[orangeblood]

head still in the sand OB? :zzz:Not really. The Repub hands are still in my wallet, however. I have to do something about that. How is your approval rating these days?

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_the_web_070511_bush_approval_map_3a_n.htm

[orangeblood]

[QUOTE]

Absolutely laughable...People making 200k or more represents less than 4%
of taxpayers in the US...That 200k earner is likely signing YOUR paycheck..
it would be wise to let he / she keep more so you can get more..make sense :doh: BTW ask the 200k earner if they received a 1000 per child tax
credit or better yet the wonderful earned income creditI bet you loved the "trickle down theory" when Reagan was President.

[CarlE]

[QUOTE=OTC TIGER;50809]I bet you loved the "trickle down theory" when Reagan was President.

Boy I sure as hell DID!! God love the late, great President Reagan.

[orangeblood]

Just for you, Carle:
http://i.cnn.net/money/2004/06/08/news/economy/reagan_hamilton/reagan_10_x_large.jpg

[CarlE]

Now THAT is something to be real proud of, my friend!! LOL.

[werperry]

How is your approval rating these days?

actually pretty damn good. let's see...

i have a hot wife.
i still have both set of parents.
i am cancer-free
i just closed on several lucrative business proposals.

currently, i would put my approval rating at around a 95%. How's yours these days?

[orangeblood]

actually pretty damn good. let's see...

i have a hot wife.
i still have both set of parents.
i am cancer-free
i just closed on several lucrative business proposals.

currently, i would put my approval rating at around a 95%. How's yours these days?
Well, I have the first and the third, and am working on the fourth. I hope to have some good luck there in the future. I might need to talk to Carle about that one.

I cannot do a thing about the second... Unfortunately it no longer applies to me. I give myself a 97 percent.

[werperry]

oh i'm sorry OB...did you mean these approval ratings... :tonguewave:

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27589

Congress Approval Down to 29%; Bush Approval Steady at 33%

[orangeblood]

oh i'm sorry OB...did you mean these approval ratings... :tonguewave:

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27589

Congress Approval Down to 29%; Bush Approval Steady at 33%Hey...33 percent, what a great score....not.:wall:

[OTC TIGER]

[QUOTE=orangeblood;50914]Not really. The Repub hands are still in my wallet, however.



The Democrats would actually STEAL your wallet :tounge:

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I have a neighbor that's a Democrat and I caught him trying to steal one of my trees last week. Really! :treehugger:

[werperry]

Hey...33 percent, what a great score....not.:wall:


29% is stellar... thanks mrs pelosi. :tig:

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I'm pretty sure neither number is worth bragging about and defy any attempts at defending them so lets not throw in Cheney's rating and the Congress's rating prior to the Dems taking over!

These ratings are just another example of how badly our elected officials from both sides of the aisle have failed ALL OF US!
You, I, and the rest of our fellow Americans are the "DECIDERS" on this matter and we can only blame ourselves if we continue to elect egotistical incompetents that will sell their souls to lobbyists and special interest groups.

[SuperBran]

29% is stellar... thanks mrs pelosi. :tig:

then perhaps you shouldn't look at the chart BEFORE the start of her service.

http://media.gallup.com/POLL/Releases/pr070515i.gif

[TigerswillbeTigers]

In looking at the latest information regarding Mitt Romneys personal assets I can't help but wonder if Mormons are taxed differently, or if he's married to a Mustard or Mayonnaise Mogul!

Really, how did he get so dadgumed wealthy? :scratchchin:

[CarlE]

I'm pretty sure neither number is worth bragging about and defy any attempts at defending them so lets not throw in Cheney's rating and the Congress's rating prior to the Dems taking over!

These ratings are just another example of how badly our elected officials from both sides of the aisle have failed ALL OF US!
You, I, and the rest of our fellow Americas are the "DECIDERS" on this matter and we can only blame ourselves if we continue to elect egotistical incompetents that will sell their souls to lobbyists and special interest groups.


Yep, bruddah is right. They ALL suck.

[Kamd50]

Finally, reality.:rockon:

[Obie Wan]

How is your approval rating these days?
Bush has a higher approval rating than Pelosi's Congress: http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27589.

Conservative ideas will win the 2008 election. Don't agree? Why is Hillary so far ahead of her Democratic rivals? Her rhetoric (which is not to say her true beliefs) are far to the right of Osama and the 7 dwarfs.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

OW! Since I think it's safe to say that you're not in favor of Billary and the other Dems, Just out of curiosity, which of the less than attractive Republican candidates are you leaning towards right now.
I was promoting McCain a year ago as you well know but I've got to be honest with you, he's a damn flip floppin crowd pleaser if I've ever seen one. I mean the man can't take a position on anything right now and justify why he's done so, instead he just caves into those that question him because he's so damn affraid of losing the primary. I never thought he'd be a man that would say whatever the audience wanted to hear.

So enlighten me, please.

[Obie Wan]

Just out of curiosity, which of the less than attractive Republican candidates are you leaning towards right now.

None. :tonguewave: The GOP has the ideas, the sense of responsibilty, and a better handle on the pulse of America, but they don't have the candidate. It's a sad commentary on their field that 2 of the top 5 in the South Carolina polls aren't even declared candidates. IMHO, this shows nothing so much as dissatisfaction with those who are in the race.

If I had to bet right now, I'd put my money on Hillary. :puke: The voters still favor Republican ideals even as they reject the Republicans themselves. Paradoxical as it may be, she comes closest to filling that bill in the minds of many voters.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I think you're spot on which scares the he!! out of me.
This country needs a true leader of "the people" right now in the worst way and unless he/she comes out of the woodwork in the next couple of months (which is highly unlikely) we're going to remain a very divided country politically which may very well not only test our belief in our democracy, but quite possibly fracture the patriotism of many Americans.

[werperry]

I think you're spot on which scares the he!! out of me.
This country needs a true leader of "the people" right now in the worst way and unless he/she comes out of the woodwork in the next couple of months (which is highly unlikely) we're going to remain a very divided country politically which may very well not only test our belief in our democracy, but quite possibly fracture the patriotism of many Americans.


absolutely agree!

[TigerswillbeTigers]

The stars are truly begining to align! :gasp:

Now all we need is Warren1st to check in and at the very least slightly agree with you, me, Obie Wan and CarlE! :thumbsup:

I would be more inclined to vote for a ticket that includes werperry, CarlE or Obie Wan in any order right now then I am to vote for any of the candidates in either party! Really! That's how disappointed I am in the "talent" pool.

[CarlE]

The stars are truly begining to align! :gasp:

Now all we need is Warren1st to check in and at the very least slightly agree with you, me, Obie Wan and CarlE! :thumbsup:

I would be more inclined to vote for a ticket that includes werperry, CarlE or Obie Wan in any order right now then I am to vote for any of the candidates in either party! Really! That's how disappointed I am in the "talent" pool.


You mean the talent "cesspool" right? It is absolutely disgusting what politicians on BOTH sides are trying to cram down our throats. The shame is that the American public is falling for this crap that these liars are all spewing. Well, except for whoever Warren1st's candidate is going to be. I'm CERTAIN that person is above board, ethical, and never lies to their constituents. Uh-HUH!!! LOL, teasing Warren1st.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Just tell me who you're running with and in what order (LOL)!

[werperry]

The stars are truly begining to align! :gasp:

when it comes to politics...i think you & i have more in common than you realize.

[werperry]

just for you Orangeblood... of course W just planted this story... :upside:


http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=354523&r=0&Category=5&subCategoryID=0

Attempting to probe the causes behind record-high gasoline prices, the committee didn't hear any evidence of price-gouging that many Democrats are seeking in their battle against Big Oil.

Rather, the expert witnesses said that a historical lack of investment in infrastructure - predominantly refinery capacity - was a primary factor in rising prices


thanks for playing... :laughing:

[orangeblood]

I am not buying these baloney articles; crude oil prices per barrel are anywhere from five to ten bucks LESS per barrel than they were one year ago. Republican greed has control of the marketplace, and will only get worse until they are stopped in the voting booths of America. I think it really is that simple.

You guys ENJOY YOUR OIL MAN in the White House. Meanwhile, I and many others will try to pay for it, and deal with the inevitable recession that these prices will cause.

[MTown]

Some of the information came from a manager director of Deutsche Bank...that's not credible?

[werperry]

crude oil prices per barrel are anywhere from five to ten bucks LESS per barrel than they were one year ago.

WOW...you believe this...BUT, don't see the bottleneck in refining? :scratchchin: ...that bottleneck in oil-to-gasoline refining is EXACLTY why the price of gas is up, while the price of crude is same/or less.