Can we end the war?

[The Voice]

Read a press release from John Edwards office earlier today and thought it was 'fresh'. He simply said, in the end it is truly up to congress on wether or not they really want to end this war; NOT BUSH. According to his office, no matter what bush says; congress can simply cut all war related spending thus 'forcing' the war to end. Obviously; this isn't a simple answer, but perhaps its worth looking at.

tv:rock:

[massillon catholic]

Read a press release from John Edwards office earlier today and thought it was 'fresh'. He simply said, in the end it is truly up to congress on wether or not they really want to end this war; NOT BUSH. According to his office, no matter what bush says; congress can simply cut all war related spending thus 'forcing' the war to end. Obviously; this isn't a simple answer, but perhaps its worth looking at.

tv:rock:

I wouldn't pay much attention to John Edwards. Cut the funds to the war? I hope you don't have any children in Iraq that need ammo, food, armour etc. He should pay more attention to how he is going to heat his new 20,000 sq ft mansion!

[chap]

I don't feel that this is a war anyway. When your at war, everyone is your enemy. That includes men women and children. Everyone is your enemy untill the war is over. If these people aren't our enemies then the war was over a long time ago.

[Indiana95]

I wouldn't pay much attention to John Edwards. Cut the funds to the war? I hope you don't have any children in Iraq that need ammo, food, armour etc. He should pay more attention to how he is going to heat his new 20,000 sq ft mansion!

To suggest that our troops would be forced to stay in Iraq without the necessary resources is stupid. If the funding stops, then obviously we begin a systematic withdrawal.

[massillon catholic]

To suggest that our troops would be forced to stay in Iraq without the necessary resources is stupid. If the funding stops, then obviously we begin a systematic withdrawal.

Then, explain how it's going to work?

[Indiana95]

Then, explain how it's going to work?

It's quite simple....We just leave and not worry about saving face.

[SuperBran]

I hope you don't have any children in Iraq that need ammo, food, armour etc.

we had a huge number of troops w/o proper armor BEFORE any talk of cutting funds.

[SuperBran]

It's quite simple....We just leave and not worry about saving face.

unfortunately bush has too much pride.

[Grizzlies]

This war will never end until the head of Bin Laden has been put on display end of story. This war is on terror right? Well he is the #1 terrorist and therefore until we have Bin Laden we cannot withdraw. So, if we want this war to end we need to quit demanding that Bush withdraw the troops from Iraq but to demand Bush find Bin Laden and do it now. Is it going to be tough? Yes but I never hear about Bin Laden anymore. The only thing I hear is we have to get our troops out of Iraq. I'm tired of hearing this. I need to hear we have a lead on Bin Laden. I need to hear we have Bin Laden on the run. I need to hear THE WAR IS OVER, WE HAVE HIM.... WE HAVE BIN LADEN!

As long as we have troops in Iraq we must continue to fund this action. If this action must be called a war then by God, call it a war and fund it but we cannot withdraw the troops until we get Bin Laden. Maybe move our troops around a bit but we cannot withdraw. If the United States of America does not locate and kill Osama Bin Laden then every soul lost in this war either home or abroad will have been lost in vein. We must start pushing for Bin Laden's head and nothing more. Again, if we want this war to come to an end and for our troops to come home, we must find Bin Laden. :treehugger:

[werperry]

This war will never end until the head of Bin Laden has been put on display end of story. :treehugger:

very shortsighted... killing ONE person ends this war? you're joking...right?

[Kamd50]

Idk about ending the war, but if the U.S. did find him and execute him then at least maybe that would give us some credibility and gain us some respect from around the world. Maybe that would make us look like we are the POWER that we are touted to be, rather than being made fools of (IMO) by continually fighting a losing battle and losing more and more American lives every single day than in the beginning of this whole sorted mess.

We need to put our money where our collective mouth is, so to speak, and have something concrete to show for all of the U.S.'s effort. And offering up the head of the most dreadful terrorist organization in the world sure wouldn't be a bad start.

[Grizzlies]

very shortsighted... killing ONE person ends this war? you're joking...right?

It may not end the war in one fail swoop but it sure as heck will be the first step in squashing the enemy.

[SuperBran]

very shortsighted... killing ONE person ends this war? you're joking...right?

i don't think that killing bin laden will make a drastic change. you kill one and another takes his place.

[massillon catholic]

very shortsighted... killing ONE person ends this war? you're joking...right?


This is exactly why bin laden hasn't been killed. If we kill him then everyone will expect the US to withdraw. As you implied, killing one person won't end the war, thus he can't be killed, yet!

[Grizzlies]

i don't think that killing bin laden will make a drastic change. you kill one and another takes his place.

what is wrong with you people? why did we end up in this war? because a man by the name of Bin Laden escalated a war against the U.S.

Let me remind you!

In August 1998, Al Qaeda bombed two U.S. embassies in East Africa (Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania) killing more than 200 people, including 12 Americans. In October 2000, Al Qaeda bombed the U.S.S. Cole, an American guided-missile destroyer at Aden, Yemen, killing 17 American servicemen. It committed its most devastating attack on September 11, 2001, when 19 Al Qaeda operatives hijacked four passenger planes and drove two into the Twin Towers in New York City and one into the Pentagon; a fourth plane crashed in rural Pennsylvania. Nearly 3,000 people were killed in the attack.

We then lauched this so called war against terrorism becuase of this man and now your telling me that it wont matter if we dont take him out? Then what in the hell are we doing in Iraq? I thought this was a war on terrorism and against Bin Laden for what he did to America? What am I missing?

[SuperBran]

what is wrong with you people? why did we end up in this war? because a man by the name of Bin Laden escalated a war against the U.S.

Let me remind you!

In August 1998, Al Qaeda bombed two U.S. embassies in East Africa (Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania) killing more than 200 people, including 12 Americans. In October 2000, Al Qaeda bombed the U.S.S. Cole, an American guided-missile destroyer at Aden, Yemen, killing 17 American servicemen. It committed its most devastating attack on September 11, 2001, when 19 Al Qaeda operatives hijacked four passenger planes and drove two into the Twin Towers in New York City and one into the Pentagon; a fourth plane crashed in rural Pennsylvania. Nearly 3,000 people were killed in the attack.

We then lauched this so called war against terrorism becuase of this man and now your telling me that it wont matter if we dont take him out? Then what in the hell are we doing in Iraq? I thought this was a war on terrorism and against Bin Laden for what he did to America? What am I missing?

do you honestly think that if we kill bin laden the terrorists of the world will throw down their guns and give it all up? once we kill him he'll become a martyr and others will step in. terrorism will always be alive. yes, everyone wants him dead and i doubt that anyone would think that killing bin laden would be meaningless; however, it is foolish to think that killing him would drastically alter the war on terror. killing him would bring closure to many, but terrorism would still live on.

[Kamd50]

I don't believe Griz stated that killing that #@$@#@$ would end terrorism. No one here is naive enough to believe that. However, to say that that is the reason why he isn't dead is absolutely rididuclous. There is nothing more Bush would like than being able to tout that he and his admin. were the ones to bring him in and do away with him, just as he relished the same about Saddam; (other than having proof that there actually were WOMD in Iran when we invaded them, of course).

[Grizzlies]

"Will his capture stop terrorism? No," Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.), vice chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said in a recent interview. "But in terms of a message to the world, it's a huge message." I feel if we never get Bin Laden then we will never be close to controlling terrorism. Terrorists worldwide have repeatedly shown they no longer need Bin Laden to organize or carry out attacks, the experts say. Attacks in Europe, Asia and the Middle East were perpetrated by homegrown terrorists unaffiliated with al-Qaeda but, they were not attacks against the United States on American soil. Bin Laden and al-Qaeda were the ones whose terrorist attack was against Americans on American soil. If we are to win this war on terrorism against Americans on American soil then we must eliminate Bin Laden. You must agree with this.

I could care less about attacks of terrorism (like the Timothy McVeigh's of other countries). When Timothy McVeigh did what he did in Oklahoma City did we ask for help from other countries? No, we handled it on our own and so should other countries. I care about the terrorist attacks by foreign enemies pledging to kill as many Americans as they can and then following through on their threats.

So, in short you are saying that when we invaded Iraq, we knew we would never win this "War on Terrorism"? Then why did we go? You forget Bush first pledged to capture him "dead or alive" in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks.

In a meeting on September 12, 2001 with his National Security Team, President Bush said, "The deliberate and deadly attacks which were carried out yesterday against our country were more than acts of terror. They were acts of war. This will require our country to unite in steadfast determination and resolve. Freedom and democracy are under attack.

The attacks of September 11, 2001 are the reasons we are at war. The attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned and carried out by Osama bin Laden. To win THIS war, the war against Osama bin Laden that President Bush declared on behalf of the United States back on September 12, 2001 can only be won by finding and destroying bin Laden. Tell me how I’m wrong……..

[massillon catholic]

I don't believe Griz stated that killing that #@$@#@$ would end terrorism. No one here is naive enough to believe that. However, to say that that is the reason why he isn't dead is absolutely rididuclous. There is nothing more Bush would like than being able to tout that he and his admin. were the ones to bring him in and do away with him, just as he relished the same about Saddam; (other than having proof that there actually were WOMD in Iran when we invaded them, of course).

First, we didn't invade Iran, it was Iraq. Second, Bush will tout that he killed bin laden. I predict that it will happen soon beofre he leaves office. If bin laden is still alive, which he may not be.

[Grizzlies]

There are steps necessary to complete any task. What I am saying is that until the United States can claim to the world that bin Laden has been eliminated then the war on terrorism cannot begin let alone end. Bin Laden is a key to this war. When you say the word terrorism the first thing that comes to mind for me is bin Laden. So to control the meaning of this word you must control its association which again brings us back to bin Laden.

[Kamd50]

First, we didn't invade Iran, it was Iraq. Second, Bush will tout that he killed bin laden. I predict that it will happen soon beofre he leaves office. If bin laden is still alive, which he may not be.

First, excuse the typo. Second, if he was dead the world would know it.

[massillon catholic]

First, excuse the typo. Second, if he was dead the world would know it.

How would the world know it, if no-one knows where he is?

[Kamd50]

Do you HONESTLY believe that NO one knows where he is?!!

[werperry]

When you say the word terrorism the first thing that comes to mind for me is bin Laden. So to control the meaning of this word you must control its association which again brings us back to bin Laden.

c'mon grizzles... you're smarter than that. terrorism started with...and ends with bin Laden? which is essentially what you're saying.

hamas, Ghadafi(sp?), syria, iran, IRA...all support, or have supported terrorism. bin Laden does not have the patent on it. ...all he has is the most spectacular act.

[shortbev]

the problem with the war on terrorism is simply this...

we are thinking like Americans...

we think they will fight fair...

we think that they will hate the killing...

we think that they will conceed defeat...

we think winning will look like it did at the end of previous wars...

AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

these people do not think like we do...

they are not afraid to sacrifice everyone and their mothers for their "cause"...

they think they are going to be rewarded in heaven with those 40 virgins (they couldn't find 40 virgins here on earth, what makes them think there will be 40 in heaven??? and who makes them no longer virgins in the first place???)

they think their cause is righteous...and will die down to the very last drop of blood in their veins...

they have the mindset for this way of fighting a war, unlike Americans who want to keep the casualties minimal

and they are too chickenshit (pardon my french) to face us man to man...and literally face us as previous enemies did...they hide behind masks and booby traps...

unless we do as they do...have the same mindset, God forbid,

this war may not be winnable unless we nuke the heck out of every spot they are...which is not something i am in favor of...except in the comfort of my computer room...

they are like little rats that keep coming out of the woodwork...you keep putting out poison and trying to kill them, and still they keep coming...

they are evil...and only God Himself is going to be able to end their deeds here on earth...

i think all we can do in the mean time is keep them in check as much as possible...

[Grizzlies]

Yes, they may support terrorism but the terrorist that did the most damage to the United States should have the biggest target to none other then make an example of. You want to die for your cause then by God we are willing to oblige. If you attack us, especially if you attack us on our soil, we will hunt you down and kill you just as our President said he would.

[Marie]

Great post, Short Bev!! Their culture is so different than ours.

[TigerLily]

I agree -- that was very well put and is true that their culture is different than ours. Let’s face it too. They want to get us. For example, just look at what they are teaching their children with that “rip-off” of Mickey Mouse. It’s disgusting.

We definitely do need to find and get Bin Laden though because he was the mastermind of 9/11 against us. It is what began our fight.

We need to stabilize Iraq as much as possible and then start to pull out some troops.
Will we be able to pull out completely? I don’t think so.

The battle will continue to rage on --if not in Iraq, then somewhere else. The “War on Terror” will continue. Our troops will be engaged somewhere in the Middle East and possibly elsewhere from now on. We will have to do everything we can to keep them off of our soil.

This won’t stop. We will have to be continually on our guard. And, sad to say, our troops will be involved.

God Bless America and God Bless Our Troops - (and keep them funded).

[Swissie]

I agree -- that was very well put and is true that their culture is different than ours. Let’s face it too. They want to get us. For example, just look at what they are teaching their children with that “rip-off” of Mickey Mouse. It’s disgusting.

Okay, wasn't that the Palestinian Hamas that did that? Against the Israelis and US of A?

And didn't we invade Afghanistan in retaliation for 9/11 and to get ole bin laden's head on a platter?

And didn't we invade Iraq because of the threat of WoMD?

just seemed like the lines were getting a little blurry here. Not knocking anybody, but really would like to see the troops come home, especially since my nephew is in Fallujah right now. Not comfy with that at all. No sirree!

[Grizzlies]

And didn't we invade Afghanistan in retaliation for 9/11 and to get ole bin laden's head on a platter?

Yes we did and when it got to hard to find him we left and then invaded Iraq.

[TigerLily]

I don’t think Hamas is in love with us. And, yes, we did invade Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. My son’s unit was the first on the ground there after 9/11. But, we haven’t yet succeeded in that part of it and it needs to get done.

I want all of our troops home too. There’s nothing worse than worrying about your son, or whoever you have there, when they are in harms way. I know that I spent many sleepless, tearful days and nights.

But, the reality of it is that we are going to be fighting this thing from now on. Only, hopefully, at a lesser degree.

(And, Swissie -- I’m praying for your nephew right now).

[Swissie]

Thank you, TigerLily. We appreciate your prayers.

Just no easy way out of this mess though, is there? I still think our government bit off way more than they could chew with this one. It seems like focus just went out the window. And you know who is paying the price.

Here's to seeing an end in sight. Or bin laden in the sight of someone's rifle!

[SuperBran]

they have the mindset for this way of fighting a war, unlike Americans who want to keep the casualties minimal

and they are too chickenshit (pardon my french) to face us man to man...and literally face us as previous enemies did...they hide behind masks and booby traps...

unless we do as they do...have the same mindset, God forbid,

this war may not be winnable unless we nuke the heck out of every spot they are...which is not something i am in favor of...except in the comfort of my computer room...



shortbev.............i'm shocked you'd even mention anything about resorting to their level. afterall, didn't you previously talk about how we don't value human lives and we should care so much about human beings? with that state of mind you should be preaching how we should protect innocent people over there. hmmmmmmmm.

[Kamd50]

Thank you, TigerLily. We appreciate your prayers.

Just no easy way out of this mess though, is there? I still think our government bit off way more than they could chew with this one. It seems like focus just went out the window. And you know who is paying the price.

Here's to seeing an end in sight. Or bin laden in the sight of someone's rifle!

:iagree: Praying for God's blessings for your nephew, TigerLily's son for his service, and all of our servicemen and women as always. Let's never forget any of them in our daily prayers people.

[Swissie]

shortbev.............i'm shocked you'd even mention anything about resorting to their level. afterall, didn't you previously talk about how we don't value human lives and we should care so much about human beings? with that state of mind you should be preaching how we should protect innocent people over there. hmmmmmmmm.

Ah, but she said that she favored this thinking in the comfort of her computer room. I understand what she is saying. It seems like the only way to beat this is to get just as dirty as them. But we know that would be impossible without losing a lot of innocent people in the crossfire. Cutting spending and withdrawing all together right now wouldn't really solve any problems. Saddam may not be there any longer but I am sure there is someone just as sick and sadistic ready to take his place. And the place is a freaking mess. Nope, this is just a hornet's nest that came without instructions. Like Shortbev, I have had all sorts of "negative" ideas about how to end this war. Nothing that I would be really proud of repeating outside of my computer room either. But shucks, you guys are our friends! If we can't deviate from the norm every once in a while with you, well where can we deviate? (oh, I probably just opened a can of worms with that one, LOL!)

Kam, thank you for your thoughts and prayers. My nephew J has been in Iraq since February. At first we thought he would be stationed in Okinawa, which would have been great since we are in Tokyo right now, but it was decided in January that he would go to Fallujah. I don't have to tell you what a disappointment that was. I pray that all of our troops can come home safely...and soon!

[TigerLily]

I know this may be a little “off topic”, but after reading the post from Swissie, I started to think about how remarkable it is that we get to have this site and talk to Massillon people and others from all over the country and the world.

Even with things that might be going wrong on this planet, some things are just so amazing.

It makes you think that this is what we are fighting for. People who want to live everyday lives in freedom.
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