How 'bout those CAVS!

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Personally I think this matchup is where losing Boozer is magnifide. Not that the Cavs would win the series, but he would certainly be a huge asset against the Spurs.
I hope the Cavs take a long look at their roster after this season and do everything they can to capitalize on contract renegotiations with those they wish to keep in an effort to free up some money for free agency, as well as looking to trade for some key pieces to add to the team.
My fear is that they will get complacent and look for LJ to carry them to a Championship. That's not going to happen without some Scotty Pippen, Robert Horry, Dennis Rodman, Kurt Rambis, Bill Lambeer and Steve Kerr type players of days gone by to bring championship experience and effort to the team.
Boobie, Gooden, Varejao and Pavlovic have huge upsides and are solid players of the future by all acoounts, but the rest of them including Hughes and Marshall can go buh by as far as I'm concerned.

[austinsm11]

Nice flopping..er...defense by Bowen.

[austinsm11]

The officiating was absolutely horrible. Bowen is draped all over Lebron on the final shot and no call. Looked to me like Duncan picked up another foul (5th maybe?) and it is called on Barry who didn't look like he even touched the shooter. Bruce and Manu flopping all over.

It was so frustrating to watch Cleveland miss shot after shot and then in comes Barry or Horry off the bench and they sink the three. Wish Jones or Marshall could have done that. I could only groan at the hustle plays that Cleveland just watched. A jumpball knocked out of bounds and everyone watches as Manu saves it. A transition layup missed by San Antonio and no one follows up as Parker taps it in. The big 3 played terrible and still found a way to get it done.

[longtimefirsttime]

How many shots by the Cavs rimmed out? :wall: As for the three point shooting... :stars:

[ChronicTiger]

The officiating was absolutely horrible. Bowen is draped all over Lebron on the final shot and no call.

You have got to be out of your mind. I'm all cavs but Bowen had nothing to do with Lebron missing that shot he brushed his jersey thats about it. Seems like it was called pretty even.

:eek2:

[austinsm11]

You have got to be out of your mind. I'm all cavs but Bowen had nothing to do with Lebron missing that shot he brushed his jersey thats about it. Seems like it was called pretty even.

:eek2:

Just brushed his jersey? What game were you watching?

I watched it again and can see where it might be debateable as far as if Lebron was in the act of shooting, but Bowen did a little more than brush his jersey.

[ks4uk]

:laughing: You can't do that and expect to win, what is andy taking (and thinking) about those shots. the cavs are a 1 man show face it, till they get a proven player to offset lebron they won't win in the playoffs next year.And they need a deeper bench-some of those guys haven't played in weeks.The spurs want it more than the cavs.

[austinsm11]

:laughing: You can't do that and expect to win, what is andy taking (and thinking) about those shots. the cavs are a 1 man show face it, till they get a proven player to offset lebron they won't win in the playoffs next year.And they need a deeper bench-some of those guys haven't played in weeks.The spurs want it more than the cavs.

I agree. I was excited after the first quarter. What killed it for them was the 10-0 run right before half. As I mentioned earlier, as did TWBT, it would be nice to have had Boozer.

[Tiger2001]

im sick to my stomach.


The red sox may have done it in the ALCS to get to the series and win it, but i just dont see it happening. Lebron needs help.

Someone please start a thread titled "How 'bout those Cavs in 2008"

[monte81]

Everybody, every year says Robert Horry is washed up but when the playoffs come around he is a superstar. Blocking shots, rebounding over Gooden and sorry Z, and draining the 3 ball. What was wildman AV thinking taking that 7 foot finger roll down by 2 with 30 seconds remaining?? Get the ball back to LJ and let him win it or lose it. The Cavs are 2 players away from a championship team. Gilbert Arenas is opting out of his contract in Washington and Kevin Garnett is very unhappy but the Lakers may have the inside track on that deal to make Kobe happy. New Jersey is trying to move Jason Kidd as well but the Cavs are somewhat scared to pull the trigger on big time free agents. They could of had Michael Redd but opted for Hughes because he was few million cheaper. If the Cavs do not upgrade fast LJ will be just like Garnett playing hard but knowing your team is not good enough because the front office are cheap skates.

Saying all that---LeBron still needs to put the team on his back!!!

[TigerswillbeTigers]

1st, Bob DeLaney (who is my neighbor and freind) absolutely missed the call on LeBrons last shot of the game and will hear about it when he gets home. Bowen was trying to intentionally foul LeBron because the Spurs had 1 foul to give and "IF" he would have got the foul prior to LeBron getting into the act of shooting the Cavs would of had to inbound the ball again with less time on the clock.
2nd, LeBron WAS in the act of shooting and Bob absolutely should have called the foul sending LeBron to the line for 3 free throws. "IF" the shot would have went in and Bob would have called the foul LeBron could have went to the line for a free throw to win the game.
3rd, "IF's" and "Butts'", the Cavs have very little offense, are shooting poorly, and when a team goes 5 straight shots without a bucket down 67-62 at crunch time including two layups by Bron Bron, they don't deserve to win. They scored 2 points in the first 5:30 of the 3rd quarter, and 12 points in the entire 3rd quarter AT HOME. That ain't gonna get it done against MOST NBA TEAMS in the playoffs, let alone the Spurs.
Last but not least, I think LJ needs to work on his perimeter shooting as often as he can this off season because he's had an abundance of wide open shots in the playoffs that he's missed. Other than the big performance against the Pistons, his perimeter shooting has been terrible, and the defenses have forced him to be a perimeter shooting "super star", instead of allowing him to be a driving "super star" and to this point it's only happened in one game.

[PDC]

Everybody, every year says Robert Horry is washed up but when the playoffs come around he is a superstar. Blocking shots, rebounding over Gooden and sorry Z, and draining the 3 ball. What was wildman AV thinking taking that 7 foot finger roll down by 2 with 30 seconds remaining?? Get the ball back to LJ and let him win it or lose it. The Cavs are 2 players away from a championship team. Gilbert Arenas is opting out of his contract in Washington and Kevin Garnett is very unhappy but the Lakers may have the inside track on that deal to make Kobe happy. New Jersey is trying to move Jason Kidd as well but the Cavs are somewhat scared to pull the trigger on big time free agents. They could of had Michael Redd but opted for Hughes because he was few million cheaper. If the Cavs do not upgrade fast LJ will be just like Garnett playing hard but knowing your team is not good enough because the front office are cheap skates.

Saying all that---LeBron still needs to put the team on his back!!!

The Front Office doesn't seem cheap to me. The problem was giving the wrong people big money.

Z plays hard but he's limited due to his age and past injuries.

I agree with you that Redd should have been signed over Hughes but apparently it was LeBron's choice so obviously it was not to save a few million.

Losing Boozer hurt the Cavs as much as anything, but there's nothing that can be done about that. We have guys who are paid to be shooters (D Jones, Marshall, etc) and none can be counted on.

[MTown]

There is a misconception that the Cavs signed Larry Hughes when they could have had Michael Redd. That is false. Because of the "Larry Bird" rule, Milwaukee was able to pay him an extra year on the contract and a total value of $20mil more than the Cavs as agreed in the CBA. He chose to stay in Milwaukee and get more money...we signed Hughes after Redd made his decision.

Now to the game....this game was lost with the inablility to make wide open shots and the inability to start and finish quarters properly. When the Cavs lost the lead going to halftime, I knew we were done and I don't think we got a lead again the rest of the game. If you look at the last minute of each quarter, I would bet we get outscored by 10 points. The situations where we have to make a play are the ones we are the worst at. We will get better at it with experience, but right now the Spurs are killing us with it.

The bottom line is that we are getting soundly beaten by an NBA Dynasty.

[monte81]

The Front Office doesn't seem cheap to me. The problem was giving the wrong people big money.

Z plays hard but he's limited due to his age and past injuries.

I agree with you that Redd should have been signed over Hughes but apparently it was LeBron's choice so obviously it was not to save a few million.

Losing Boozer hurt the Cavs as much as anything, but there's nothing that can be done about that. We have guys who are paid to be shooters (D Jones, Marshall, etc) and none can be counted on.


The front office is cheap. What major moves to they make after last season? NONE and that cost us. If Jones was not good enough for the Heat who won the championship last year why would the Cavs sign him. Boozer wanted to bolt because he wanted to be the #1 option and the Cavs have LJ. However they never go hard for any big time free agents who can do more than just shot. Michael FInley will be a free agent as well. They better upgrade and get LJ some help.

[MTown]

Monte, the front office is going to be paying Luxury tax because we are so high over the salary cap! Come on, man. I agree that some moves need to be made but you just can't force a player to come to the Cavs. We only had about $1.5mil in salary cap left and could only add a mid-level exception for $4.5mil....what big name player is going to come for under $6mil? Larry Huges is making $10+ a year and isn't even an All-Star. It's gotta be done through trades, but it isn't because the front office is cheap. In my view, they done everything they can when it comes to throwing money around.

[obie7661]

Cavaliers Let Opportunity Pass Them By

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/13/sports/basketball/13nba.html?ref=sports

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/06/12/sports/basketball/13nba-450.jpg

[PDC]

What makes people think other players would ever WANT to come to Cleveland?? Most of us love the city, but let's face it outsiders don't see much appeal to it.

The opportunity to play with Lebron is probably enticing to some but I just don't see big name free agents flocking to Cleveland.

As MTown pointed out, the Cavs are just getting it handed to them by a better team. (Or Keno's new favorite team)

[Red50Go]

Trade or get rid of Marshall, Jones, Pollard, Z, Wild Thing or Gooden, Z, and Hughes if you have to for Garnett. We'd be better off w/ him, either WT or Goods, Pavlavic, and Lebron. Boobie & the kid from Mich. St. will develop. Then fill pcs from there.

[austinsm11]

1st, Bob DeLaney (who is my neighbor and freind) absolutely missed the call on LeBrons last shot of the game and will hear about it when he gets home. Bowen was trying to intentionally foul LeBron because the Spurs had 1 foul to give and "IF" he would have got the foul prior to LeBron getting into the act of shooting the Cavs would of had to inbound the ball again with less time on the clock.
2nd, LeBron WAS in the act of shooting and Bob absolutely should have called the foul sending LeBron to the line for 3 free throws. "IF" the shot would have went in and Bob would have called the foul LeBron could have went to the line for a free throw to win the game.
3rd, "IF's" and "Butts'", the Cavs have very little offense, are shooting poorly, and when a team goes 5 straight shots without a bucket down 67-62 at crunch time including two layups by Bron Bron, they don't deserve to win. They scored 2 points in the first 5:30 of the 3rd quarter, and 12 points in the entire 3rd quarter AT HOME. That ain't gonna get it done against MOST NBA TEAMS in the playoffs, let alone the Spurs.
Last but not least, I think LJ needs to work on his perimeter shooting as often as he can this off season because he's had an abundance of wide open shots in the playoffs that he's missed. Other than the big performance against the Pistons, his perimeter shooting has been terrible, and the defenses have forced him to be a perimeter shooting "super star", instead of allowing him to be a driving "super star" and to this point it's only happened in one game.

Unless they had it wrong on the tv screen, the Spurs did not have a foul to give. A foul before the shot would have put Lebron on the line to shoot 2 when they needed 3.

As far as Lebron being in the act of shooting, I thought so as well but could see where it would be questionable. Regardless, how frustrating is it to stop the big 3 and not be able to put the ball in the hoop throughout the game and get the win?



I really wish Snow would have gotten the start. I think his defense and leadership would have really helped and still allowed Boobie to come off the bench.

I disagree about the Cavs not spending. We spent on Z, Jones and Hughes and they appear to be a mistakes. Z is a good player, but not worth the money he is making. I say the Cavs should keep Lebron, Sasha, Boobie, Anderson, Snow, and Gooden, and the guy from mich. state and clean out the rest. I am really sick of the cockiness of Jones who couldn't hit a 3 if his life depended on it.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Austinism! The Spurs only had four 4th quarter fouls and 15 in the entire game. They had a foul to give and not only did Van Gundy and Mark Jackson point it out, but so did Poppovich in the post game presser.
As a matter of fact, the analysts immediately recognized that Bowen was trying desperately to stop LJ from getting a wide open look at a 3 from behind the arc, which would give him 3 free throws regardless of whether it was before the shot or not. The key point was that in their opinion, as well as mine, LJ was in the act of shooting due to the continuation rule when he attempted the shot.
They still didn't deserve to win though!

[austinsm11]

Austinism! They had a foul to give and not only did Van Gundy and Mark Jackson point it out, but so did Poppovich in the post game presser.
As a matter of fact, the analysts immediately recognized that Bowen was trying desperately to stop LJ from getting a wide open look at a 3 (from behind the arc, as in 3 free throws) and announced that they had a foul to give, then commented that continuation and "the act of shooting" would have had to of been called when LJ attempted the shot.
They still didn't deserve to win though!

I'll have to watch again. I know that they showed the number of time outs for each team and that neither team had a foul to give. Like I said, it could have been wrong. Before the play happened Van Gundy said he would foul but he never really explained why. I thought it was because Lebron would only shoot 2 (if fouled before the shot). Even if Lebron makes both and they foul the Spurs, Cleveland has no time outs left to advance the ball.

As far as the continuation, I think it could have been argued either way, but I don't know much about basketball. The clear path to the basket call bothered me because none of the refs seem to know who should be shooting and what should be going on. Good work by Popovich to wait until Boobie makes both before going to complain.

Tell your neighbor that an angry group of fans will be coming to his house. Seriously I am curious what he has to say about the play.

I do have to say that I was impressed that Lebron dropped it at the press conference and didn't make excuses. I think he gained alot of respect from that.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Austinism! "IF" DeLaney would have called the foul, he would of had to call continuation and "in the act of shooting" because LJ immediately picked up his dribble, squared up and took the shot. Even if Bob wasn't sure about "continuation" the Ref's would have definately huddled in that situation as they do quite often after a foul and discussed continuation. I know that's a lot of speculation, but I'm quite familiar with that particular scenario because we've given Bob crap in the past about some of the circus shots these guys throw up after they've taken what seems like 3 steps after they've been fouled!

BTW! The ratings for this series are pathetic. Everybody was speculating that the 6.0 share they got sunday night was due to the Sopranos Finalle, but last nights game only garnered a 6.4 which is terrible. These numbers and the NHL stanley cup numbers are very telling in the world of sports right now. Not much interest outside of the two teams areas.

[austinsm11]

Anyone else see the ref under the basket get nailed by a cameraman charging onto the court after the buzzer?

[tiger#22]

Anyone else see the ref under the basket get nailed by a cameraman charging onto the court after the buzzer?

Yes I noticed that on a few replays, if you notice the cameraman after he hits the ref with the camera actually takes his hand and pushes him out of the way.

CAVS win the next 2 !

[longtimefirsttime]

The TV graphic at the end was incorrect. The Spurs did have a foul to give. Popovich was screaming at his team to commit the foul. Also on the possession at the end in which Varejao threw up the awkward shot, Mike Brown initially did nothing, then started shouting for a timeout. But because the Cavs were further down the floor, no one heard him.

[austinsm11]

The TV graphic at the end was incorrect. The Spurs did have a foul to give. Popovich was screaming at his team to commit the foul. Also on the possession at the end in which Varejao threw up the awkward shot, Mike Brown initially did nothing, then started shouting for a timeout. But because the Cavs were further down the floor, no one heard him.

Find this on ESPN.

"He fouled me. Right there," James told Delaney.

And, truth be told, James was right. Just before he went up for the final shot, a potential game-tying 3-pointer launched with 4.9 seconds left, Bruce Bowen reached out and shoved him in the back -- a play that looked to the naked eye like Bowen trying to foul James before he could get off a 3, which would have sent him to the line for two shots when the Cavs needed three points.

But what really must be steaming Cavs fans is that James went up for the shot just a split-second after Bowen shoved him, which 90 percent of the time would have been judged a continuation, giving James three shots from the line.

But Delaney never blew his whistle (I'll have a hard time all summer fathoming how James could not get that call in his own building, in the NBA Finals, no less), James' shot rimmed out, and the Spurs walked off with a 75-72 victory Tuesday night that gave them a commanding 3-0 lead in the series?


I was telling TWBT that this appears that there were no fouls to give. Could Popovich be yelling for them to foul because Lebron would be shooting 2 and with no timeouts left? Or it could be that the tv graphic was wrong and that is what this writer went by.

[longtimefirsttime]

Man it's hard to say. But dangit what I do know is they had the game in their grasp and let it slip away. It never should have come down to the last play of the game.

[austinsm11]

CAVS win the next 2 !

Bold prediction. I really felt they would win game 3. I have a feeling they will win game 4 and lose game 5, but I'd rather your prediction come true. I don't want them winning on our home court.

Think anyone would have noticed if we slipped Greg Oden into a uniform??????

[longtimefirsttime]

Will the Cavs push back tonight (or roll over and have the Spurs win the championship on the Cavs home floor)? We'll soon see.
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/intro_mid_right_V2.jpg
(Photo, nba.com)

[longtimefirsttime]

Here's a decent article on Dan Gilbert's rise from a pizza delivery man to NBA team owner.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=2902173

[longtimefirsttime]

Here's a list of the top NBA free agents.
http://www.insidehoops.com/free-agent-rankings.shtml

[longtimefirsttime]

"Cavs offense needs an overhaul"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/kelly_dwyer/06/13/observation.deck/index.html

"The main issue? The team waits, holds the ball and acts as if it has an offensive home-run hitter to bail it out in the final seconds of the shot clock. The team does actually boast that slugger, but LeBron is 22, and still figuring out the footwork necessary to work in the post or beat a perimeter and help (and sometimes third) defender off the dribble while escaping the inevitable presence of a flopper waiting at the front of the rim. It's unfair to James, talented and well-compensated as he is, to be asked to create something off a simple screen-and-roll or isolation play nearly every time down court."

[longtimefirsttime]

Congrats Lebron on the birth of your second son.
http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/sports/index.ssf?/base/sports-9/1181808899179560.xml&storylist=sports

[CarlE]

Well, at least SOMETHING good is happening to him this week.

[TigerVic]

The NBA and ABC had it so nicely rigged so the Cavs could win a game Tuesday night and they STILL couldn't do it!

They still might hand the Cavs a "pity" win tonight, but they want this series to be over to cut the ratings losses.

[austinsm11]

Austinism! The Spurs only had four 4th quarter fouls and 15 in the entire game. They had a foul to give and not only did Van Gundy and Mark Jackson point it out, but so did Poppovich in the post game presser.


If the Spurs had 4 fouls, doesn't the 5th foul put them in the penalty? If Delaney thought the foul was before the shot, he was actually doing the Cavs a favor in letting Lebron take the shot since there is no way the Cavs could have won shooting 2 free throws.


TigerVic, how did the NBA have it rigged for the Cavs to win? Please explain.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

No! and No!

[austinsm11]

Seems like if the NBA really wanted the Cavs to win, Lebron is shooting free-throws at the end.

TWBT, is Delany working tonight's game as well? Tell him to avoid the camerman if so.

[monte81]

Congrats Lebron on the birth of your second son.
http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/sports/index.ssf?/base/sports-9/1181808899179560.xml&storylist=sports

Afew players like Billups, Stakehouse, Rashad Lewis, or Mike Bibby would improve the team next year.

[austinsm11]

I would love to have Lewis. Maybe Bibby as well.

[Red50Go]

Afew players like Billups, Stakehouse, Rashad Lewis, or Mike Bibby would improve the team next year.


Or Paul Pierce. One of a select few superstars (like KG or Redd) floundering in obscurity...and only a ring could salvage their legacy. You dont always know what makes these guys tic though. If it is only bottom dollar like w/ Boozer the CAVS will have a hard time landing that running mate for Lebron, unless through the draft like Chicago struck it w/ Pippen.

[TigerDL71]

I think what the Cavs really need is a true three point shooter. They do not have that right now. They have Damon Jones on the roster but amon ones "no D no J " is about worth nothing and Donyell is inconsistent. The cavs need a three point shooter that is accurate and someone the team can rely on. With everyone collapsing around Lebron, that would leave the shooter wide open a lot.

[tiger#22]

I would love to have Lewis. Maybe Bibby as well.

Lewis yes, Bibby no because he doesnt play defense.

Anyone else think the Cavs win the next 3? Or am I the only one in the World?

[austinsm11]

Whoa. What made you change from next 2 to next 3?

I'd have to say you are probably the only one.

Who would you like to see at point guard?

[CarlE]

Anyone else think the Cavs win the next 3? Or am I the only one in the World?


You're kidding, right?

[tiger#22]

You're kidding, right?

Not at all, this is the 3 worst games this team has played in over 3 months.
Do you honestly think they will make only 3 of 19 3's again or continue to shoot 30-35% each game?
I think tonight Lebron will throw in 40 and they will ride him to a win and then Sunday it will be a complete team effort then going back to SA all of the pressure will be on them just like it was on Detroit for game 5 in the last series. If it gets to a game 7 how do you think SA is going to handle the pressure of possibly being the first team to blow a 3-0 lead,,,,then again the Cavs might just have no heart left and get blown out tonight.

[CarlE]

Not at all, this is the 3 worst games this team has played in over 3 months.
Do you honestly think they will make only 3 of 19 3's again or continue to shoot 30-35% each game?
I think tonight Lebron will throw in 40 and they will ride him to a win and then Sunday it will be a complete team effort then going back to SA all of the pressure will be on them just like it was on Detroit for game 5 in the last series. If it gets to a game 7 how do you think SA is going to handle the pressure of possibly being the first team to blow a 3-0 lead,,,,then again the Cavs might just have no heart left and get blown out tonight.

Geez, I guess you have pretty well covered all your bases with this post, didn't you??? LOL

[austinsm11]

No matter how poorly the Spurs play, the Cavs find a way to play just a little bit worse.

[longtimefirsttime]

I knew the Cavs were large underdogs but I didn't see a four game sweep. The Spurs are simply too good. A true dynasty. They do all the little things well. A positive is the Cavs have progressively gotten better each year over the past four years. They can get back to the Finals, but Lebron needs help!

[longtimefirsttime]

Jon Berry had the dumbest quote of the NBA season. Tonight he said the Cavs reaching the NBA Finals will be a detriment to the franchise. "Because with higher expectations come an even greater disappointment." Jon, maybe you can live vicariously through your brother since you never made it to the Finals.

OK enough sour grapes. Not many expected the Cavs to make it to the Finals. Some even had the Cavs losing in the first round. They can make it back. And at least it wasn't the Pistons!

Now Dan Gilbert and Danny Ferry can officially get to work on signing some free agents.

[shortbev]

another year, another sport, another defeat...and hell has still not frozen over in cleveland...

how long??????? how long before just "one" of these "professional" teams win the big one??? personally, i have come to believe that the cleveland teams are the farm teams for everyone else...a good player plays here for a few years...learns the ropes and develops his skills further...and then moves on or is traded for a "younger" player...a few more years, lebron will give up on winning in cleveland...and move on to where he will...the story of sports in cleveland...

and, sadly, the teams in cincy aren't giving us that much more hope...

shoot me now, and put me out of my misery...please...

[longtimefirsttime]

My support does not waver. I will cheer on the local teams until the day I die.

Go Cavs!
Go Indians!
Go Browns!
Go Buckeyes!
Go Tigers!

[austinsm11]

I'm with you in that I knew the Spurs were a better team but felt like the Cavs could win a few at least. I never imagined them getting swept. What is most frustrating is that had they made a few more shots the past two games the series could have been 2-2. For as poor as the Spurs played, the Cavs just couldn't seem to build a big lead. A 4 point lead would turn into a 6 point deficit.

I think the LBJ, Gibson, Gooden, AV, and Sasha form a good, young core to build around. Pick up a good point guard and a good outside shooter and they will be tough.

[longtimefirsttime]

Lebron, keep your chin up.

http://i.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0706/spurs.title/images/cavs2_nelson.jpg


I hope this is yours one day (in a Cavs uniform).

http://i.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0706/spurs.title/images/trophy_rosato.jpg
(Photos, CNNSI.com)

[mss2ms]

They could have won last night's game but waited a little to long to try and come back. They gave us a very good season to remember. We do have what it takes to go to the championship. Hopefully next year will be our year.

[Indiana95]

It's time for the Cavs to begin its search for a star coach to match our star player. Brown waits way too long to make adjustments, call time outs, put Lebron back in the game, etc. etc.

Lebron made him look good. He's been a mediocre at best coach from the beginning. To win a championship, we need to play like a western conference team....fast pace! A new coach will be a good start.

[MTown]

I don't know if I would agree with that. Yes, Mike Brown has lots of improvements to make. But let's not also forget how bad this team was defensively before he got here...and that was with Paul Silas who came in with a lot of head coaching experience. We are now a top 5 defensive team. The key is going to be if Brown will make the necessary changes to his coaching staff to get an offensive mind on board. He's only been a head coach for two years now and he's taken us to the playoffs in both years and now to the finals. He's certainly got room for improvement, but with the last two years of success he deserves the opportunity to get better. It is up to Danny Ferry to get the proper players in here and then up to Brown to make it work.

[monte81]

It's time for the Cavs to begin its search for a star coach to match our star player. Brown waits way too long to make adjustments, call time outs, put Lebron back in the game, etc. etc.

Lebron made him look good. He's been a mediocre at best coach from the beginning. To win a championship, we need to play like a western conference team....fast pace! A new coach will be a good start.

Everyone is always quick to point at the coach but in this instance the coach is not the problem. Cleveland has a hard time attracting top free agent players and the role players the Cavs do have just do not cut the mustard. The only thing Mike Brown did wrong last night was take out Eric Snow because he was the only one containing Tony Parker. As soon as Snow left the court parker started bact to killing us. Sassha, Hughes, Marshall, Jones, etc,... all need some walking papers and find some role players who actually play defense and offer some offensive skills. If you are going to fault anyone fault LJ for holding the ball waiting for double teams instead of driving as soon as he gets the ball, get a better jumper, and demand that his team give max effort. IT IS ON LJ TO WIN IT! 2 players short of winning the championship this year--a shooter and a hustler with offense! San Antonio had 3 stars to our 1 but all of the team grinds all game. Horry is a player who I would love to have on my team because he has all the intangibles you cannot coach--hustle, a jumper, rebounding, etc,...---the Cavs need a few players like that!!!

TWBT---- you still think LJ is better than Kobe??? I really don't think so!! The Lakers would of lost as well but Kobe would of lite it up for 50!

[mss2ms]

I agree with MTown, Yes Coach Brown has to make improvements, but that is one thing that I don't agree with trading coaches. Who is actually playing the coaches or the players?

[Red50Go]

Meaningful free agents are next to impossible for us to compete w/ other teams for. Do we a have draft pick? Seems like dumb luck is our best chance. ie. a Scottie Pippen. Most all-stars are original draft picks, some even lower rounds. If we could even get a 2nd rounder for any of our overpriced baggage I'd take the chance.

[Red50Go]

Brown brought a defensive tenacity that was good enough to win the conference, and was good enough to beat St. Antone. Thats a good thing. He may not be the best offensive coach but we do get plenty of open shots...we just brick them. That allows 5 defenders to worry about 1 thing - stop Lebron and let everyone else shoot.

[monte81]

Meaningful free agents are next to impossible for us to compete w/ other teams for. Do we a have draft pick? Seems like dumb luck is our best chance. ie. a Scottie Pippen. Most all-stars are original draft picks, some even lower rounds. If we could even get a 2nd rounder for any of our overpriced baggage I'd take the chance.


I agree on that but remember that the surrounding cast of the bulls teams were also all star free agents like Ron Harper and Rodman and without them to do the defensive dirty work and kerr and paxson making open shoots the Bulls would not have beaten Phoenix, Utah, or Seatle in the finals.

I would even trade Hughues, Z, Sasha, etc,... and a few others to get some quality all-around players to work with as well. As far as the draft Jordan found Pippen in Arkansas and noone even the Bulls organization heard of him until a week before the draft. Sometimes you have to look deep to find what you are looking for in players.

[monte81]

Brown brought a defensive tenacity that was good enough to win the conference, and was good enough to beat St. Antone. Thats a good thing. He may not be the best offensive coach but we do get plenty of open shots...we just brick them. That allows 5 defenders to worry about 1 thing - stop Lebron and let everyone else shoot.

The coach is doing his job and learning on the run---impressive 2 year turnaround but the supporting cast is garbage.

[austinsm11]

Do we a have draft pick? Seems like dumb luck is our best chance. ie. a Scottie Pippen. Most all-stars are original draft picks, some even lower rounds. If we could even get a 2nd rounder for any of our overpriced baggage I'd take the chance.

I don't think we have any picks. I swore we had a 2nd round pick, but I think the Magic get it.

[CarlE]

The coach is doing his job and learning on the run---impressive 2 year turnaround but the supporting cast is garbage.

Agreed. I want to make sure I have this straight. You guys are all bitching about the coach yet in the same breath you say it's all LeBron with no talent and no draft picks coming up. Soooooooo, to me that would mean the coach must be doing SOMETHING right. He got you to the freaking FINALS for God's sake.

[monte81]

Agreed. I want to make sure I have this straight. You guys are all bitching about the coach yet in the same breath you say it's all LeBron with no talent and no draft picks coming up. Soooooooo, to me that would mean the coach must be doing SOMETHING right. He got you to the freaking FINALS for God's sake.

Typical Ohio talk. As soon as a coach does not fill the expectations of the community he is no good!!! That is BS--- if we should be mad at anyone it is Danny Ferry for not going out and getting LeBron the supporting cast he needs. I saw 4 and sometimes 5 players on LJ and he makes all the right decisions but the rest of the team never seem to do nothing more than exercise. Z and Gooden are always on the bench in the 2nd half of games because either can defend ANYBODY but that is the coaches fault that a 6'10 and 7'1 player is slow and lazy!!

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I have a question!

Has Z jumped center for the opening tip all season when healthy? I know it's not a big deal, and I'm pretty sure the Cavs didn't lose a game this season if he did, but you can't tell me that Z can out jump LJ! Z is lucky to get the ball above the rim when dunking and LJ's hand is about oh.......lets say......2-3 feet above the rim when he throws it down.

Now, to the comments directed at Brown. I think he's a solid defensive coach that's had the benefit of working under some very good coaches, but I do think he's a bit over-matched strategy wise when facing the better coaches that are playoff tested. I thought the way game 3 ended was 100% on him. It seemed like they had no plan for the way the last several seconds unfolded and I thought he and the players should have made it a point to find a ref to get a much needed TO to get on the same page. If that would have happened Varejao would have never took the shot let alone had the ball in his hands at the end of that crucial game.

[monte81]

Mike Brown said that VJ amde a bad decision taking that shot and should of passed the ball back out. it was still 12-15 seconds on the shot clock. VJ's fault--the play was already called. The cavs shot 37% for the series and you cannot beat a boys club team like that!!

TWBT---still think LeBron is better than Kobe??

[austinsm11]

Typical Ohio talk. As soon as a coach does not fill the expectations of the community he is no good!!! That is BS--- if we should be mad at anyone it is Danny Ferry for not going out and getting LeBron the supporting cast he needs. I saw 4 and sometimes 5 players on LJ and he makes all the right decisions but the rest of the team never seem to do nothing more than exercise. Z and Gooden are always on the bench in the 2nd half of games because either can defend ANYBODY but that is the coaches fault that a 6'10 and 7'1 player is slow and lazy!!

I don't think many expected for the Cavs to get to the finals, especially before the last day when they got the 2 seed. People had a dislike for Brown before this. I don't know anyone blaming Brown for losing in the finals, however. He is a young head coach and I think he will grow over the next few year just as the rest of the team does. The dislike for Brown, imo, is because we have Lebron and don't speed the game up. Hard to do that as much though without a point guard.

As much as I think the Cavs overpaid for Z, I think he is the only one who came to play in the finals.

[monte81]

I don't think many expected for the Cavs to get to the finals, especially before the last day when they got the 2 seed. People had a dislike for Brown before this. I don't know anyone blaming Brown for losing in the finals, however. He is a young head coach and I think he will grow over the next few year just as the rest of the team does. The dislike for Brown, imo, is because we have Lebron and don't speed the game up. Hard to do that as much though without a point guard.

As much as I think the Cavs overpaid for Z, I think he is the only one who came to play in the finals.


I agree that Brown will keep improving as a HC but we can't speed the game up until LJ gets some help filling the lanes. We have no Pippen, Malone,Worthy type players. LJ needs to put the Magic Johnson passing away and start being more like Mike until they get him some more help--especially in the playoffs. Gibson is a keeper at PG and will only get better(LJ hand picked him from playing together in allstar games back in HS!)

I think Brown is playing to his strenggths aa a defensive coach and would like to play faster on offense but does not have the players--Z, Gooden, etc,... are slow and do not play to potential!

[TigerswillbeTigers]

You must be thinking of someone else! Unless I was on here drunk, I've never said LJ was better then Kobe. I might of said I would rather have LJ then Kobe, but I'll never say LJ is "better" then Kobe at this point in LJ's career!

Also, there was no TO to set up a play when the Cavs got the ball and headed down the floor. The players should have been told to take a TO as soon as they got the ball, and Brown should have made sure that the nearest ref knew he was going to take a TO no matter what happened and when the Cavs unexpectedly got the ball and headed down floor Brown should have been chasing the nearest ref to get the TO.

You said, "VJ's fault -- the play was already called"?
What play? There was no set play! If there was, it certainly wouldn't have included the ball going into VJ's hands for anything more than a pass to LJ!
The mistake was not calling TO to set up a play and it was compounded
when LJ got pressured and threw it to the only guy available (VJ). That was no set play there my freind!

[austinsm11]

I agree that Brown will keep improving as a HC but we can't speed the game up until LJ gets some help filling the lanes. We have no Pippen, Malone,Worthy type players. LJ needs to put the Magic Johnson passing away and start being more like Mike until they get him some more help--especially in the playoffs. Gibson is a keeper at PG and will only get better(LJ hand picked him from playing together in allstar games back in HS!)

I know what you are saying about being more like Mike instead of Magic at this point. The problem is that he isn't like Mike. His shot is horrible.

As far as other players, they tried to bring in Marshall, Gooden, Jones, Hughes and it just hasn't worked out. I have no idea what happened to Hughes, but he is not even close to what I expected.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I agree with most of what you've said Austinsm!
As far as Hughes goes, I don't follow the Cavs as closely as people in Ohio, but it seems to me like Hughes has been struggling more often then not ever since his brother died last year. Sometimes a tragedy like that can really change a persons focus and desire. I've seen many athletes react differently to similar situations. Some elevate their games and play at an incerdible level. and others reflect on life, put things into perspective and lose their competitive edge.

[monte81]

You must be thinking of someone else! Unless I was on here drunk, I've never said LJ was better then Kobe. I might of said I would rather have LJ then Kobe, but I'll never say LJ is "better" then Kobe at this point in LJ's career!

Also, there was no TO to set up a play when the Cavs got the ball and headed down the floor. The players should have been told to take a TO as soon as they got the ball, and Brown should have made sure that the nearest ref knew he was going to take a TO no matter what happened and when the Cavs unexpectedly got the ball and headed down floor Brown should have been chasing the nearest ref to get the TO.

You said, "VJ's fault -- the play was already called"?
What play? There was no set play! If there was, it certainly wouldn't have included the ball going into VJ's hands for anything more than a pass to LJ!
The mistake was not calling TO to set up a play and it was compounded
when LJ got pressured and threw it to the only guy available (VJ). That was no set play there my freind!

LeBron didn't plan on passing to VJ but everyone was covered well! LJ immediately called for the ball back up VJ wanted to be the hero--like most other players who suddenly end up with the ball at the wrong time because of good defense. LJ is just to humble to say--VJ f'd up and should not have shot the ball. Instead he said--I played bad and made mistakes and put it on me!!!

Some posters have said LJ is better than Kobe but you give Kobe the same team and he beats the Spurs IMO because all kobe needs is defensive players and rebounds to win--he does the rest by himself---now Kobe is like Mike!! I love LJ but like LaMar Odem he cannot be guarded but lacks that killer needed to be a real beast in the NBA!! barkley said it best--"LeBron is way too unselfish"

[monte81]

I know what you are saying about being more like Mike instead of Magic at this point. The problem is that he isn't like Mike. His shot is horrible.

As far as other players, they tried to bring in Marshall, Gooden, Jones, Hughes and it just hasn't worked out. I have no idea what happened to Hughes, but he is not even close to what I expected.

Mike's 1st 3 years all he did was drive and dunk--he didn't start shooting alot of jumpers until he was in his 30's. Lj has a great overall game but lacks a jumper but will improve on that. I think some are asking to much from a 22 year old kid that should be a senior in college.

[crackerman]

that whole series looked like a NBA team playing a high school team. Im just confused as to if the Spurs are that good or the Cavs are that bad.
I didnt read all the posts because I dont care enough about basketball to read them all....but here is the main thing; the Cavs will not get to where they need to be until the get a consistent 2nd scoring threat other than Lebron. I dont mean Z has 20 one night, I dont mean Marshall has 20 one night, and I dont mean that Boobie has 20 one night. I mean a guy who does it every night. Jordan had Pippen, yes, but the rest of that team was a bunch of nobody's who knew their role. Magic won a title with freakin Kurt Rambos at Center one year if I remember correctly. Duncan had Robinson, now he has Parker. You have to have that 2nd guy. Maybe boobie will be that guy, who knows, but spend some money and get another scorer.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Monte!
You keep making my point! Of course LJ didn't plan on passing to Varejao. THERE WAS NO SET PLAY because there WAS NO TIME OUT to set one up. In that situation your team MUST be ready for every possible scenario, including a long rebound toward the sideline off of a missed free throw!
It's the head coach and asst. coaches responsibility to make sure that everyone is on the same page at the end of such a crucial game.

Cracker! I somewhat agree with you about the difference between the two teams. However, even though I'm not a fan of "if's and Butts" (these butts) the Cavs had plenty of chances, and excellent opportunities to win games 3 and 4. "If" (LOL) that had happened, nobody would be calling this series a mismatch, and the Spurs a "Dynasty" right now.

[monte81]

Monte!
You keep making my point! Of course LJ didn't plan on passing to Varejao. THERE WAS NO SET PLAY because there WAS NO TIME OUT to set one up. In that situation your team MUST be ready for every possible scenario, including a long rebound toward the sideline off of a missed free throw!
It's the head coach and asst. coaches responsibility to make sure that everyone is on the same page at the end of such a crucial game.

Cracker! I somewhat agree with you about the difference between the two teams. However, even though I'm not a fan of "if's and Butts" (these butts) the Cavs had plenty of chances, and excellent opportunities to win games 3 and 4. "If" (LOL) that had happened, nobody would be calling this series a mismatch, and the Spurs a "Dynasty" right now.


No timeout was needed to set up a play--- you let your best player make the play. VJ just didn't think straight. basketball is a transition game and the Cavs were somewhat effective all quarter using the pick and roll but VJ just didn't execute it correctly. You try to make a play because the other team expects you call a timeout--all great teams make that play every night without using a TO. Maybe call a timeout to get VJ non shooting butt out the game--bet he won't shoot that shot again or he will unemployed!!

[austinsm11]

While the Spurs are the better team, the series is tied 2-2 if the team isn't shooting 30-something percent.

It did look like Brown was chasing the ref and yelling at him. I don't know that a timeout was really needed, however. Wouldn't the play be something along the lines of get Lebron the ball and get out of the way? The players should know that at the end of such a close game.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I respectfully disagree!

I think you're as wrong as wrong can get on this one. I'm not going to say that it's never happened in close games during the NBA finals, but I assure you EVERY single coach, on EVERY single team, has always protected their TO's in the last couple of minutes of EVERY game for that exact reason.
I don't care if it's LJ, MJ, Kobe, Shaq, or any other "STAR" player in that exact situation, the plan is to take a time out, NOT to just stand back and hope "your star player can make the play" against 5 players that are coached not to let it happen!
As a matter of fact, tell me one other time the Cavs took the approach you're suggesting in this years playoffs. In every single close game Brown saved his TO's and used them to set up plays, and to make offensive and defensive substitutions right down to the last second.
Last but not least, the reason a coach saves atleast one time out until the end of the game is to AVOID EXACTLYY WHAT HAPPENED!
VJ wouldn't have an opportunity to "not think straight" if the TO was called!

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Austinsm! Just think back to what happened against the Pistons when the TO was called and a play was set up for either LJ to drive and shoot, or kick it out to a wide open Marshall.
That's what a TO gives you in that crucial situation. A chance for EVERYONE to get involved in a set play on the sidelines, so you can optimize your opportunities on the floor. Against the Pistons the Cavs had a great play on and LJ had a reasonable chance to make a basket, and Marshall who had been shooting three's succesfully in prior games was WIDE OPEN!

I'm confident that 99% of the time a coach in the exact same situation would take a TO to set up a play, and to discuss exactly what he wants to happen in every possible scenario. Including whether or not to take the first open shot with time left for a potential rebound or tip in!

[austinsm11]

I respectfully disagree!

I think you're as wrong as wrong can get on this one. I'm not going to say that it's never happened in close games during the NBA finals, but I assure you EVERY single coach, on EVERY single team, has always protected their TO's in the last couple of minutes of EVERY game for that exact reason.
I don't care if it's LJ, MJ, Kobe, Shaq, or any other "STAR" player in that exact situation, the plan is to take a TO, not to "let your star player make the play"!
As a matter of fact, tell me one other time the Cavs took the approach you're suggesting in this years playoffs. In every single close game Brown saved his TO's and used them to set up plays, and to make offensive and defensive substitutions right down to the last second.
Last but not least, the reason a coach saves atleast one time out until the end of the game is to AVOID EXACTLYY WHAT HAPPENED!
VJ wouldn't have an opportunity to "not think straight" if the TO was called!


Don't get me wrong, I think that a time-out should have called it. But if the players don't know that Lebron gets the ball at the end of the game, that is a problem.

I guess what I am trying to say, although not so well, is get Lebron the ball.

[TigerNick]

My support does not waver. I will cheer on the local teams until the day I die.

Go Cavs!
Go Indians!
Go Browns!
Go Buckeyes!
Go Tigers!

I second that motion,

[austinsm11]

I'm confident that 99% of the time a coach in the exact same situation would take a TO to set up a play, and to discuss exactly what he wants to happen in every possible scenario. Including whether or not to take the first open shot with time left for a potential rebound or tip in!

And Brown did want the TO. Maybe that gets blamed more in the inexperience of the Cavs. I dunno.

[monte81]

In the flow of the game with one TO remaining Mike Brown knew that San Antonio would get the ball back regardless if we scored or not so I would of let LJ make a play and keep the timeout for the last few seconds. You see we got the ball back and needed that timeout but the foul was not called!

With some small adjustments the Cavs will be better next year but unfortunately the Heat will also!

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Of course the plan is to get LJ the ball. Even the other team knows that! That's why teams take a TO to set up plays based on hours of tape they've watched in that exact same scenario. Teams in the Cavs situation look for previous tendencys so they can set up the play that gives them the best chance at scoring!

Heck, even if LJ was on fire the entire game (which he wasn't) the coach should call a TO in that situation because there was plenty of time left to execute a play, rather than relying on some "fire drill" on a "break away" play where things like this happen, and "if" he was on fire, don't you think the 5 players in the other uniforms would be doing everyting they could to stop him from beating them? In Montes mind the "Star" is supposed to "make a play" no matter what! LJ tried, and then paniced when he picked up his dribble. The VJ paniced when the ball was actually put in his hands at the crucial time! Two reasons why you cal a TO!
No Brainer in my opinion.

[austinsm11]

In the flow of the game with one TO remaining Mike Brown knew that San Antonio would get the ball back regardless if we scored or not so I would of let LJ make a play and keep the timeout for the last few seconds. You see we got the ball back and needed that timeout but the foul was not called!

With some small adjustments the Cavs will be better next year but unfortunately the Heat will also!

They did have 2 TOs remaing though. They could have called one and saved the other.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

It's times like this that I ask myself.......self, what's the point :scratchchin:

I've missed way too much U.S. Open coverage during this meaningless debate! :laughing:

[austinsm11]

It's times like this that I ask myself.......self, what's the point :scratchchin:

I've missed way too much U.S. Open coverage during this meaningless debate! :laughing:

Come on, this is more fun that watching golf.

[longtimefirsttime]

That is BS--- if we should be mad at anyone it is Danny Ferry for not going out and getting LeBron the supporting cast he needs.

Ferry did initially make that attempt. He worked to re-sign Z. The Cavs then signed Gooden, Marshall, Jones and Hughes. All came in with high marks and had many teams interested in their services. All have been underwhelming for their salary levels.

I will be following this offseason closely.

[npaflas]

Don't give up CAV'S will 13e 13ack next year. One player away from having a great team.

[jbones]

the reason why larry hughes has been struggling here in Cleveland(besides the injuries) is that he was a slasher, the guy who went into the paint , while Gilbert Arenas shot the ball from the outside.

larry hughes now has been taken out of his game here in Cleveland cuz he tries to be the outside shooter and he is not. If we can find the outside shooter for the cavs and speed the tempo up on offense then that will free up both lebron and larry hughes' game and it will free up the 18 and 15 footers tht Z makes along with Gooden. Then instead of us talking about what we need to improve the team we will talk about how the cavs won the NBA Title

[longtimefirsttime]

http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=17481&r=3&Category=2

[longtimefirsttime]

"Finals illustrate Cavs' need to get busy this summer"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/paul_forrester/06/15/cavs.offseason/index.html

[longtimefirsttime]

"The Cavs should have a busy off-season"
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/19/the-cavs-should-have-a-busy-off-season/