You're in AMERICA

[xtiger]

Act like an American! Is it time to shut the borders? http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-somali27mar27,1,5477731.story?coll=la-headlines-

[GrowlingTiger87]

It's about time American's are getting mad. Unbelievable.

[DAWGH8R]

Shut it down !!!

[GrowlingTiger87]

AMEN H8tr!

[Smitty]

... Is it time to shut the borders?

I realize that I'm parroting a certain radio talk-show host (Savage) here, but we need to protect our (English) language, (American) culture, and our borders.

[CrazyMTfan]

Act like an American! Is it time to shut the borders? http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-somali27mar27,1,5477731.story?coll=la-headlines-ABSOLUTELY!!!! We have sat idle to long...:usflag:

[CrazyMTfan]

I realize that I'm parroting a certain radio talk-show host (Savage) here, but we need to protect our (English) language, (American) culture, and our borders.You are 100% correct. What American culture! What English language! What borders! We have been WAY to willing and kind to share everything we have in this country. 'WE' will soon be no more.

[xtiger]

I wish somebody would stand up and do something about immigration
in Congress, before its to late!

This is an absolute must read http://www.alpinesurvival.com/immigration.html

[JazzyJeff]

You guys make me laugh. It was ok for all of your families to immigrate, but now that you're here, we should close the border.

[massillon catholic]

JJ you have it wrong. All those who immigrated did it LEGALLY!! The complaint that everyone, including me has, is the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!! There is a difference and until you realize that, you will forever wear blinders!

[xtiger]

You guys make me laugh. It was ok for all of your families to immigrate, but now that you're here, we should close the border.
One things for sure........The Protestants arrived first! And secondly,
we're talking about illegal immigration.

Your family may have immigrated illegally, not mine.

And how do you like your new coach?

[Seeker]

JJ you have it wrong. All those who immigrated did it LEGALLY!! The complaint that everyone, including me has, is the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!! There is a difference and until you realize that, you will forever wear blinders!

Perhaps you should have read the article linked to before you posted.
The immigrants in the story are all legal immigrants also.

:oops2:

[xtiger]

Perhaps you should have read the article linked to before you posted.
The immigrants in the story are all legal immigrants also.

:oops2:

Hey SUPER MODERATOR, read the title of the article. It does mention
legal immigration, so what!

Quit splitting hairs.:smartass:

[Seeker]

Hey SUPER MODERATOR, read the title of the article. It does mention
legal immigration, so what!

Quit splitting hairs.:smartass:

I wasn't talking to you.

If you want to shut down all immigration, legal and illegal, so be it.

But massillon catholic drew a differentiation between the two, and in this case he was incorrect.

[xtiger]

I wasn't talking to you.

If you want to shut down all immigration, legal and illegal, so be it.

But massillon catholic drew a differentiation between the two, and in this case he was incorrect.

My bad Seeker. I appologize for the interuption!

You are still a SUPER moderator!:drinkem:

[xtiger]

This is happening all over the Southwest United States.http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7112/mexflagamericanflagupsiae4.jpg

[Seeker]

This is happening all over the Southwest United States.

Yea, right.

And I'm sure the English immigrants in Boston were thrilled when all the Irish showed up and out-numbered them!

:usflag:

[shooter]

I don't see how anyone can support this illegal immigration. My grandparents came from Europe and passed through Ellis Island; any comparison with people who illegally break into this country is ridiculous. The legal immigrants had to pass tests to prove they were of sound mind and body. Any people who were not healthy were sent back to their country of origin. This is not the case with the Mexican illegals. Chagos disease, TB, and various other exotic diseases are now breaking out along the Mexican-US border. The Ellis Island immigrants had to have a supporting family to take them in or to council them. There was no welfare state in the early 20th century. No emergency rooms, no food stamps for their youth, just work.In fact 50% of them returned to their home country, that's how tough it was. All of the emergency rooms in the LA area are deluged with paying for the illegals. Twelve hospitals in the LA area alone have gome bankrupt trying to care for the illegals.
Most importantly, however, they wanted to be Americans. The Mexican illegals who come here talk of the Reconquest of Azlatan. They want to return California and the southwest to Mexico. The yhave no love of America, no respect for America's traditons or culture. They want to establish their own cultrue here. The say they have a right to have their culture here. Well, they do have a place where their culture is respected. It's called Mexico.
Imagine if millions of Americans broke into Mexico and then started demanding their "rights"; demanded the Mexicans started celebrating the 4th of July; the Mexicans would rightfully throw them out.

Mexico protests our timid attempts at policing our border, but what does Mexico do with it's own southern border? Troops, imprisonment for illegal entry.

Thirty years ago California was the promised land. Now native Americans are leaving it for the illegals, if it wasn't for illegal immigration California would be losing population.

It's almost too late.

[shooter]

http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/Hispanics.htm

Above is a link to statistics regarding Hispanics.

[LEOGER]

HEY SPIZE! Aren't your glad you helped raise those stats?

[xtiger]

Yea, right.

And I'm sure the English immigrants in Boston were thrilled when all the Irish showed up and out-numbered them!

:usflag:

Thats an apples to apples comparison. What were talking about an apples to
crab apples comparison. lol

[Seeker]

Thats an apples to apples comparison...

Not to the English and Irish, my friend!

:laughing:

[JazzyJeff]

Guys, as Seeker said, RTFA.

All the immigrants interviewed were legal, just like most of your ancestors. If you want to turn this into an anti-illegal immigrant or anti-Mexican rant, start a new thread.

If all immigrants assimilated right off the boat, we wouldn't have/had any ethnic restaurants, neighborhoods or identity. We'd all walk, talk, eat and act just like the Puritan English.

If you don't think previous generations complained when the Irish, Italians, Poles, Germans, etc. came over, you're crazy. I'd also bet the Native Americans weren't too excited to see the pale faced foriegners on the Mayflower, nor to get the diseases that the pilgrims brought along.

[Seeker]

From another thread:
It appears to be just an eerie coincidence.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/041807/loc_2007041878.shtml

April 16,2007-Virginia Tech shootings
April 19,1995-Oklahoma City bombing
April 19,1993-Waco siege ends in deadly inferno
April 20, 1999-Columbine school shootings

"Want to go back even further in history? The Titanic sank on April 14, 1912; Abraham Lincoln was shot on April 14, 1865; and the San Francisco Earthquake hit April 14, 1912."

Let me add:
April 19, 2007-JazzyJeff and I are agreeing about something.

:drinkem:

[mike_da_man13]

This is happening all over the Southwest United States.http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7112/mexflagamericanflagupsiae4.jpg

actually i noticed alot of those when i was in florida over spring break what is the signifigance of an upside down flag?

[obie7661]

It's a duress signal.

[xtiger]

actually i noticed alot of those when i was in florida over spring break what is the signifigance of an upside down flag?

Hey Seeker, I bet the immigrants from Ireland never did this.

[massillon catholic]

From another thread:


Let me add:
April 19, 2007-JazzyJeff and I are agreeing about something.

:drinkem:


Is this what they are talking about whent they refer to the "spring itch"?

[DragonTigerNemesis]

Hey Seeker, I bet the immigrants from Ireland never did this.


Actually, they did a lot worse.

Oh my goodness! Those horrible Mexicans! They're being scapegoated for America's ills, and their response is to defiantly carry flags to show the pride of their heritage! Waving flags! They're terrorists!

I mean, that's nothing like the Irish in the St. Patrick's day parade, right? Right?

http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/nycpara.html

"If nativists thought New York had an "Irish problem" in the first few decades of the 19th century, one can only imagine their horror at the torrent of destitute famine Irish who began to flow in during the late 1840s. This tidal wave of Irish would eventually transform the St. Patrick's Day parade from the fairly unobtrusive affairs it was up until then to the mammoth event it is today.

With the anti-immigrant "Know-Nothing" party growing in direct proportion to the influx of Irish immigrants, a number of Irish militia companies began to form to defend their neighborhoods. In the 1850s, those groups also began to march in the St. Patrick's Day parades. The most prominent and longest lasting of these militia units was the 69th NY, the famous "Fighting Irish". Today, though no longer a predominantly Irish unit, they proudly lead the parade up 5th Ave. every year."

Boy oh boy, if only today's Hispanics could be more like the Irish. I'd much prefer armed ethnic militias marching down 5th Avenue over families waving flags. (That was sarcasm.)

Whatever. If you can't see that the Republican party is pulling exactly the same "blame the immigrants for all your problems" crap that the Know-Nothings did in the 1840's, then you're an idiot. Once people stopped treating the Irish like pariahs, the alleged Irish resistance to assimilation pretty much disappeared. I mean, I didn't notice any armed Irish militias in this year's parade. Ya think Mexicans will abandon their horrific terrorism of flag-waving when people stop treating them like crap?

:help:

[MTown]

Wow....because Republicans have a real problem with LEGAL immigrants. I guess I don't understand why the left is so upset that Republicans want the rule of law enforced?

If those Irish immigrants you referred to came into the country illegally and benefitted from welfare (which wasn't around) and benefitted from healthcare (which wasn't around) then you would have a point. BUT...you don't.

[JazzyJeff]

Hey Seeker, I bet the immigrants from Ireland never did this.

It's amazing how small minded one can be. Do the research, you'd be surprised. Ironically, Ireland is now seeing an increase of racism lately due to the swarms of Poles that are currently moving to Éire.

At any rate, if the worst thing someone does is not take me home because I'm carrying Jack Daniels, I'll survive. I'm even less concerned if someone puts the American flag upside down. Don't we have enough to worry about?

America in 2007 (specifically the customs and racial makeup) is different than it was in 1950, 1900, 1850, 1800, etc., and look how far we've come. For some people to think things are going to stay the same over the next 50 years, they are just kidding themselves.

[GrowlingTiger87]

It's amazing how small minded one can be. Do the research, you'd be surprised. Ironically, Ireland is now seeing an increase of racism lately due to the swarms of Poles that are currently moving to Éire.

At any rate, if the worst thing someone does is not take me home because I'm carrying Jack Daniels, I'll survive. I'm even less concerned if someone puts the American flag upside down. Don't we have enough to worry about?

America in 2007 (specifically the customs and racial makeup) is different than it was in 1950, 1900, 1850, 1800, etc., and look how far we've come. For some people to think things are going to stay the same over the next 50 years, they are just kidding themselves.

How far have we come? Seems to me that in many ways, we are taking backward steps. Anyhow, please answer this seriously, because I honestly hate to think what we are going to leave for our kids and grand kids. It scares the crap out of me.

[xtiger]

It's amazing how small minded one can be. Do the research, you'd be surprised. Ironically, Ireland is now seeing an increase of racism lately due to the swarms of Poles that are currently moving to Éire.



Talk about a small mind. We're talking Irish immigrants to the US. NOT
immigrants to Ireland.

Since your so smart, why don't you share with us what you find in your research and pass it along.

I wonder how many illegal Irish we have running around?

[Grizzlies]

I realize that I'm parroting a certain radio talk-show host (Savage) here, but we need to protect our (English) language, (American) culture, and our borders.


Amen! Well said!

[JazzyJeff]

Talk about a small mind. We're talking Irish immigrants to the US. NOT
immigrants to Ireland.

Since your so smart, why don't you share with us what you find in your research and pass it along.

I wonder how many illegal Irish we have running around?

I was merely providing an interesting anecdote about the Irish. Irish citizens routinely dispursed from the home country in search of jobs for the last 200 years. Now that they're receiving immigrants for the first time in generations, it's ironic that incidents of racism against those immigrants have been popping up considering the shite their own received.

As for research, I'm not going to do it for you. If you really think that there weren't violent clashes between the Irish immigrants (Legal and illegal) and the establishment, you're wrong. Hell, the violent clashes between the Irish immigrants among themselves in Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Chicago are legendary.

As for illegal Irish we have running around, it was more than you think. During the famine, Britain eased travel restrictions and the price of transportation in an effort to increase the population of Canada. The Irish did this in droves, but instead of staying in the Great White North, they simply crossed the unguarded border or took a ship to NYC or Boston, where they met with relatives already in the States. While many Irish did register when they arrived, many more did not. This sounds awfully similar to a more recent phenomenon. Yet, the US didn't need to "protect" anything, let alone their way of life.

I'm fairly certain I know (and will know) more about this subject that you ever will. For those who think we are "taking a step back" by an increase in Latin immigrants and culture, I'd like to see your reasoning for it, otherwise, it sounds no different than the anti-Irish bigots of the late 1800s.

[longtimefirsttime]

http://www.urban.org/PublicationImages/305184/setfig1.jpg

http://www.urban.org/PublicationImages/305184/setfig3.jpg

[longtimefirsttime]

This was forwarded to me in an email.

"The statistics are very interesting. What follows is profound.
All 10 items listed below are from the Los Angeles Times.
1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.A.County, 5.1 million people speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish (10.2 million people in L.A.County).
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. http://www.cis.org/ (Center for Immigration Studies)
Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration.
The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay) $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University].
The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid, minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE.
29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.
And then there's this:
About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations, from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage "

I ran it through a "snopes test." Some figures are accurate. Some are based on misguided figures. I would say it misses the mark overall.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp

[longtimefirsttime]

I'm even less concerned if someone puts the American flag upside down.


As a courtesy I will provide you an opportunity to explain. Perhaps I'm taking this out of context somehow. But someone (especially someone here illegally) disrespecting the American flag in such a way is troubling to me.

[longtimefirsttime]

This is a verified reproduction of a letter written by a long-time U.S. Border Patrol Agent.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/borderpatrol.asp

[longtimefirsttime]

In case anyone wondered about Mexico's immigration policies...
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/lillpop022707.htm
(This "independent" newspaper takes a quick "jab" at liberals. This is not my intention, and those who have been on this site awhile know I don't side with one party over another here. However the facts about Mexico's immigration policy are simply too interesting to ignore, regardless of the source document in which they were reported.)


"Nafta Should Have Stopped Illegal Immigration, Right?"
http://www.tradeobservatory.org/headlines.cfm?refID=97476

"Finally, the steady flow of Mexicans to the United States has produced a
momentum of its own - what Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Institute, calls a 'network effect,' in which young Mexicans travel to the United States in growing numbers to join the growing number of family members already here.The upshot is that Mexican migration to the United States has risen to 500,000 a year from less than 400,000 in the early 1990s, before Nafta, Mr. Passel estimates. Roughly 80 percent to 85 percent of immigrants are here illegally, he says."

[JazzyJeff]

As a courtesy I will provide you an opportunity to explain. Perhaps I'm taking this out of context somehow. But someone (especially an illegal immigrant) disrespecting the American flag in such a way is troubling to me.

Individual people do disrespectful things everyday in a variety of ways to make spectacles of themselves. That's what makes this country great. At the end of the day, if it doesn't hurt me, my family or my friends, I let it go. Still, there is no context for the picture, who did it or why.

What's interesting about your bar graph is the amount of immigrants coming in during the 1800s, especially considering the population of the US was much lower. I think we entered the 1900s with a population of 75M total, compared with 300M today. I can't imagine what the WASPs thought of the Irish and Italians coming in by the boatload during that time.

[longtimefirsttime]

Your point is duly noted about the flag.

It's hard to compare illegal immigration in the 1800's, when America was a developing nation, with today's levels.

Jazzy, don't you think the link about Mexico's immigration policies is interesting?

[JazzyJeff]

It's hard to compare illegal immigration in the 1800's, when America was a developing nation, with today's levels.

That's the thing, while America is certainly "more developed" now compared to 1890, America is still a developing nation. If you are of the opinion that the country is fully developed, you may want to let the residents of Texas, Arizona and Florida know and tell the Americans from New England and the Midwest to stop moving in, building houses and cities.

[longtimefirsttime]

Those areas are "developing" because other areas of the country are "regressing."

[chap]

No more free anything and watch things slow down.

[JazzyJeff]

Those areas are "developing" because other areas of the country are "regressing."

I'd agree we're "developed" in the economic sense and that the US is fully industrialized. However, I'd disagree that we are finished developing as a nation, as immigrants continue to move in and Americans continue to move to deserts and coastal cities, changing landscapes that were unhospitable just 50 years ago.

In the grand scheme of things, the whole "America" experiment is still quite young. While the post-WWII era has been a time of great prosperity and relative peace, that is no indication that we should expect that to continue indefinitely. Therefore, why should we expect all things to remain as they have?

On a side note, I think that people moving to Arizona, Texas, etc. will end up being a disaster. What happens when people move to the desert? They need water, and lots of it. Which is why at some point, I predict cities on the Great Lakes will have a major comeback in the next 25 years due to its proximity and access to one of the largest freshwater sources in the US.

[longtimefirsttime]

People are just going where the jobs are. That's why Ohio continues to lose population while many areas of the South and West continue to increase.

Your point about water shortages is a good one. Areas of California and near Las Vegas are experiencing that to a degree now. The Governors of the Great Lakes States and Canadian officials have been preparing for that scenario. They've taken a variety of measures including the Great Lakes Charter.
http://www.cglg.org/projects/water/docs/GreatLakesCharterAnnex.pdf