CNN: 31 Dead, 28 Injured at Virginia Tech

[obie7661]

Breaking News at CNN

[obie7661]

Fox News is reporting 32 dead as of 2:05 p.m.

Article from NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/us/16cnd-shooting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[giant lugey]

This is a very sad day. Our prayers go out to the families.

[DAWGH8R]

Thank God those " serve & protect " officers all hid behind their cars til the guy committed suicide.

What a bunch of pansies !! They looked terrified !!!!!!!!!!:bomb:

[shooter]

"Thank God those " serve & protect " officers all hid behind their cars til the guy committed suicide"

That's just what I thought when I saw the video. Why didn't they charge into the buildings?

[monte81]

Crazy things going on in our world--the police should be fired for not reacting! protec and serve--more like run and duck.

[PhotoObie]

Waiting almost two hours before alerting the rest of the campus about a shooting/2xmurder incident is inexcusable...especially without a witness to the gunman physically leaving the area. Training is to react as the gunman is still present until it is proved otherwise. Because of Columbine and other school tragedies, I thought schools were to develop procedures for worst case secenarios such as today at VT. I realize you can't lock-down a college campus as quick as a high school, but at least alert students/staff to a dangerous situation. I really believe VT never thought it would happen to them and their campus police force were unprepared for such a day.

[shooter]

My mistake, they (VT police) said they heard shots; went to the building and it was chained shut from the inside. They forced their way in within a minute and followed the gunshots. When they got to the scene the shooting had stopped and the murderer had killed himself. What can they do?


If this turns out to be a Muslim watch the MSM go into full damage control. I can hear it now; "We're concerned about a backlash"

[Kick]

Sorry shooter, but your name freaks me out on this thread.

[obie7661]

Drumbeat of Shots, Broken by Pauses to Reload

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/us/17scene.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

[longtimefirsttime]

Now is not the time to criticize university and emergency personnel. An evaluation of procedures will be forthcoming. To initiate a lockdown of an entire university the size of a city is not an easy task. And with a troubled and heavily armed person, it possible the result would have been no different. Family, students,staff and friends need time to process and grieve following this horrible event.

[MTigers006]

LTFT, How can we as a community help?

[MTigers006]

I found this on the internet. This was not the only college shooting this month on a college capus. Here is a link to a shooting at The University of Washington:

http://uwnews.washington.edu/ni/article.asp?articleID=31697

[longtimefirsttime]

The Virginia Tech Dean of Students Office and American Red Cross are working with other agencies to formulate a recovery effort and fund. And, if you're so inclined, the power of prayer couldn't hurt either.

[MTigers006]

The power of prayer is a great and awsome thing.

[shooter]

Sorry shooter, but your name freaks me out on this thread.


Yeah, I thought about that. It is from the Dennis Hopper character in "Hoosiers". I'm not a gun person, at least not yet. Any more of these occurences and I might get a conceal and carry permit.

[DAWGH8R]

And with a troubled and heavily armed person, it possible the result would have been no different.
A 9MM Glock handgun and a .22 cal pistol are barely heavily armed. In fact, I can't believe that he was able to kill and injure 50 people. Alarming that being this under-armed, that he caused this damage. When I first heard of the massacre, I figured this guy must have had some sort of assault rifle or more.

Why in the world would this guy file the serial numbers from these weapons.

And with all the new "findings" that are relevant to his writings, why was no one ever informed that he was a crackpot ?? A lot of people have blood on their hands in this mess.:dead:

[longtimefirsttime]

A 9MM Glock handgun and a .22 cal pistol are barely heavily armed. In fact, I can't believe that he was able to kill and injure 50 people. Alarming that being this under-armed, that he caused this damage. When I first heard of the massacre, I figured this guy must have had some sort of assault rifle or more.

Why in the world would this guy file the serial numbers from these weapons.

And with all the new "findings" that are relevant to his writings, why was no one ever informed that he was a crackpot ?? A lot of people have blood on their hands in this mess.:dead:

Why didn't the authorities in Colorado stop the Columbine shootings (they had writings too)? Or Jonesboro? Or the Oklahoma City bombing? Because, despite the best efforts and intentions available, troubled people occasionally slip through the cracks and harm people. Do you know how many people are PREVENTED from doing similar things each year. Unfortunately you can't stop them all. And I doubt the security procedures used by campus and emergency personnel at VT are drastically different from those used at many other institutions across the country.

[longtimefirsttime]

DAWGH8R-check out this link that mentions how easy it is to get a gun in Virginia.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/16/eveningnews/main2691645.shtml


"Meanwhile, a former campus police chief at Virginia Tech told CBS News that in recent years the school had bucked the state legislature and hunting culture and took steps to safeguard its student population. It required all guns be checked with campus police, collecting hundreds at a time. Ironically, the school specifically banned the possession of firearms in dormitories or classrooms — the exact locations of today's unthinkable violence. "

[longtimefirsttime]

The Australian PM on the tragedy:
“'You can never guarantee these things won't happen again in our country,' Howard told reporters."
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070417-0745-virginiatech-australia.html

DAWGH8R-I know you, and a few others, are very actively "pro gun." I'm not advocating taking your guns away. But the majority of the blame for this falls with the troubled man who pulled the trigger.



"The first reports of trouble were tragic, but small in scope, no hint of the massacre about to unfold in the Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia: One person was dead, another injured. In a mass e-mail, Virginia Tech officials announced a shooting had occurred at the dorm, police were on the scene and urged anyone in the university community to "be cautious" and contact police if they saw anything suspicious or had information on the case.

The e-mail was signed off at 9:26 a.m.Police would later say they thought the two had been shot in a domestic dispute. They thought the gunman had fled the campus. "We secured the building, we secured the crime scene," Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said. For a long while, there were no new reports of anything suspicious. Classes on the Blacksburg, Va., campus had gone ahead as schedule; the first period began at 8 a.m. The doors of the buildings remained open. And the heavily armed gunman with a motive yet unknown had set his sights elsewhere, at Norris Hall, an engineering building nearly a half-mile away on the 26,000-acre campus.

Police believe the shooting at Norris began around 9:45 a.m. The building's doors had been chained shut, possibly by the gunman, authorities said. At 9:55 a.m, the school sent out a second e-mail."Please stay put," it warned. "A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows." Soon thereafter the gunman burst into the room and fired about 30 shots in just a minute a half — first blasting a professor in the head, then shooting the students."

What would you have done differently? Would you have had SWAT and other personnel pouring onto campus after the first incident, which had no indication of being anything other than an isolated domestic incident? Ninety nine times out of a hundred (or more) that would create an unneeded panic.

I was a Kent State student when a gunman was shot in one of the main courtyards, just feet from where students were walking to and from class. It was eerily similar and could have ended just as badly.

Again I ask you what would you have done differently to prevent this tragedy?

[austinsm11]

LTFT,

Just wanted to say that you are right on with everything you have said!

[obie0130]

i agree LTFT. it is very easy to be critical from hundreds of miles away from the situation. not being there i don't know how we can draw real conclusions from some smapshots that only give us a SMALL slice of the situation.

[DAWGH8R]

First off, they probably couldn't have stopped this guy. However, why now , are people saying that they were concerned about his mental state and writings.

Any sicko that wants to carry out an event like this , usually will. Forget the security updates, and other nonsense.

As far as guns go. We were afforded the opportunity to "bear arms" long ago. Just because someone uses one to kill 33 people , doesn't mean that we penalize those of us who have never had the opportunity to shoot someone.

Thousands of people are killed each year in auto accidents. Please don't outlaw cars !! Even more people are killed by drunk drivers. They'll never outlaw alcohol.

I have sympathy for those involved, but, we will have this from time to time. It's inevitable.

We'll never know the reason why this happened, but I'm betting that the reason lies with the first 2 deaths at the dorm. After that, reality probably set in, and he figured he was done anyhow.

Tragic situation, but it won't be the last.:huh:

Tougher gun laws only make it tougher for HONEST, LAW ABIDING citizens to get one. How many arrests in the paperinvolve felons with guns ?? LOTS !! And , according to the laws, felons can't legally buy guns, so...................

[DAWGH8R]

Thinking that the gunman had "fled the campus" was pure speculation on law authority's part, but probably wouldn't have made a difference.


I keep seeing the statement: " HEAVILY ARMED ". Seriously, I carry more firepower when I'm out on my Harley, and that's no chit !!

Hard to believe that a kid so close to being done with college, and starting his adult life, could get so amped upabout something, probably figuring that he was " going out " that day.

[DAWGH8R]

The Australian PM on the tragedy:

What would you have done differently? Would you have had SWAT and other personnel pouring onto campus after the first incident, which had no indication of being anything other than an isolated domestic incident? Ninety nine times out of a hundred (or more) that would create an unneeded panic.



The Perry school system encountered a MUCH MILDER situation not too long ago, with a man wielding a knife in the neighborhood. They locked down both the schools.

You will probably see schools initiate a " LOCKDOWN " type of program, that would be in effect until law enforcement gave the all clear. After all, the first killings were on the same property as the final ones.

The assumption of " we thought the suspect left the campus" probably falls a little short of being a valid excuse for the parents who will never see their kids again !!

[DAWGH8R]

Lost in the shuffle:

The shooter's family must be devastated as well. They lost a son, and must live with the legacy that he created.

A very sad situation.:usflag:

[longtimefirsttime]

Once again, it is not as easy as some would think to do a complete lockdown on a college campus the size of a small city. Secondguessing always happens after such events.

The "heavily armed" comment likely stems from the fact that he killed 30 people in just over a minute.

As I said before, I'm not in favor of taking away your guns but look at Virginia's gun laws. Pretty weak.

"A well-placed law enforcement source tells CBS News the weapons used in the massacre were a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun and .22-caliber pistol. Both are readily available in gun shops across the United States and particularly accessible in the commonwealth of Virginia, which recently earned a C-minus rating by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.
“It’s much too easy to get guns in the state of Virginia,” said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Center.

That’s in part because there's no gun registration, no mandatory waiting period to purchase weapons. The only major restriction: a limit of one gun purchase per month. "

[MTigers006]

My neighbor said Virginia Tech is about the size of Massillon and about the same population. Now imagine attempting to lockdown every building in Massillon and you pretty much get an idea of what LTFT is talking about.

[MTigers006]

I just went and bought a Virginia Tech hat. I wanted to how my support.

Guy at store said there are numerous items on ebay where people are taking advantage of this tragedy to make a few $$. Thats sad.

[Dr Strangemind]

Proponents of gun control should perhaps refrain from trying to capitalize on this tragedy.

In January of 2006, there was a proposed measure to allow students at Virginia Tech to carry weapons on campus for self-protection. The measure did not pass. The spokesperson for Virginia Tech expressed satisfaction that the measure failed, and stated that students and faculty & staff would now feel safer.

Food for thought.

[longtimefirsttime]

Had the measure passed would it have prevented this tragedy? That is my point. I am not advocating taking away anyone's guns.

[longtimefirsttime]

http://photos-887.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v81/67/47/23300978/n23300978_33078887_7096.jpg
(Thanks TVC)

[Tiger54]

The Perry school system encountered a MUCH MILDER situation not too long ago, with a man wielding a knife in the neighborhood. They locked down both the schools.

You will probably see schools initiate a " LOCKDOWN " type of program, that would be in effect until law enforcement gave the all clear. After all, the first killings were on the same property as the final ones.

The assumption of " we thought the suspect left the campus" probably falls a little short of being a valid excuse for the parents who will never see their kids again !!

I thought the same thing. But boy, if you are facing someone who is "armed," you sure would feel like you had a better chance defending yourself against a guy with a KNIFE than you would against a guy with two guns, woudn't you? Why is it that any wacko can purchase a gun---why are you tested for everything---driving, etc., but not whether or not you are qualified to carry a gun? Obviously, people knew that this guy had some kind of mental problems just by his behavior. Being called "Mr. Question Mark" because he wouldn't even sign his name in a class! Maybe we need to pay more attention to weirdos like that.

[TigerLily]

What an awful, tragic thing that happened.

All I can think about is the loss the families of those gone are feeling.

My heart aches for them and my prayers are with them.
http://home.earthlink.net/~ralsobrook/angelpry.gif

[MTigers006]

This whole situation and the recent problems at MMS worries me greatly. I think not only here in Massillon but other education facilites in other communites need some security make overs and reviews. I am one that would gladly offer a donation for metal dectectors in all our buildings. If possible at least one armed officer at all buildings. These are just my thoughts and personal opinion.

[MTigers006]

There is an article and statement about this subject on Americas Most Wanted. Thier website is: www.amw.com

Let us kee the Virginia Tech Community in our prayers and at prayer meetings as the healing process begins.

Let us not forget those who are injured and most importantly lost.

Also, President Bush has requested ALL US Flags to half staff for 30 days.

[MTigers006]

This kid concidered Dylan Kleibold and Eric Harris as Martyrs. It is said he even dressed like Dylan Klebold during the killings. If you have seen the pictures on CNN you know what I mean. This is very disturbing.



Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[TigerDL71]

Why didn't the authorities in Colorado stop the Columbine shootings (they had writings too)? Or Jonesboro? Or the Oklahoma City bombing? Because, despite the best efforts and intentions available, troubled people occasionally slip through the cracks and harm people. Do you know how many people are PREVENTED from doing similar things each year. Unfortunately you can't stop them all. And I doubt the security procedures used by campus and emergency personnel at VT are drastically different from those used at many other institutions across the country.


You are correct. After hearing about their security at VT, Kent State has just about the same type of security. Really scary when you think about it.

[DAWGH8R]

The media is just breeding a "copycat" somewhere. Some sick mind would LOVE to get this much attention, and take the "title" with 34 or more.

Our media is our own worst enemy. Just keep showing this 24/7, and always make sure to say: " Deadliest massacre EVER ".

I predict the record won't last long. Sad, but true.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/11/VT_Emblem.gif

[longtimefirsttime]

"Northeast Ohio campuses adjusting security plans"
http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=15721&r=4&Category=1

[longtimefirsttime]

If not for a cancelled class, a local woman would have likely been close to the gunman.
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/12256462/detail.html

[longtimefirsttime]

Lost in the shuffle:

The shooter's family must be devastated as well. They lost a son, and must live with the legacy that he created.

A very sad situation.:usflag:

This is a report from a South Korean media outlet:
"Meanwhile, the father of Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-hui reportedly committed suicide. Radio Korea, a broadcaster for Korean expatriates in Los Angeles, said rumors spread in Virginia’s Korean community that the killer’s father slashed a main artery with a knife after learning that his son was identified as the gunman in the shooting massacre. The shooter’s mother also tried to kill herself but failed and is in critical condition, the broadcaster added."

[Dr Strangemind]

The media is just breeding a "copycat" somewhere. Some sick mind would LOVE to get this much attention, and take the "title" with 34 or more.

Our media is our own worst enemy. Just keep showing this 24/7, and always make sure to say: " Deadliest massacre EVER ".

I predict the record won't last long. Sad, but true.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/11/VT_Emblem.gif

Bingo

[obie7661]

Officials Knew Troubled State of Killer in ’05

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/19/us/19gunman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[giant lugey]

I am on the bubble about gun control. I don't own any but I know many people who do. However, when a mental patient can walk in and buy a gun, then something obviously needs to be done.

[Kamd50]

Vick remembers the Hokies
Ex-Virginia Tech quarterback donates $10K to families

-- Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick has teamed up with the United Way and donated $10,000 to assist families affected by the massacre at Virginia Tech, his foundation announced Wednesday.

"When tragic things like this happen, families have enough to deal with, and if I can help in some small way, that's the least I can do," said Vick, who played football at Virginia Tech before joining the Falcons in 2001 as the top overall pick in the NFL draft.

The Vick Foundation is collecting donations from local communities in both Atlanta and Virginia that will be placed in the United In Caring Fund for Victims of the VA Tech Tragedy and the special fund at the United Way of Montgomery, Radford and Floyd counties, which serves the Virginia Tech area.

The foundation said the money will be used to provide help with funeral expenses, transportation for family members and other support services:angel:

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

Kamd50,

Nice post and a nice thing to do for a player like Michael Vick. Vick was a part of the 1999 Hokies, that played for the national championship against #1 Florida State.

God bless him and be with the families of the VA Tech victims during this time of tragedy.

[GrowlingTiger87]

The media is just breeding a "copycat" somewhere. Some sick mind would LOVE to get this much attention, and take the "title" with 34 or more.

Our media is our own worst enemy. Just keep showing this 24/7, and always make sure to say: " Deadliest massacre EVER ".

I predict the record won't last long. Sad, but true.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/11/VT_Emblem.gif


H8tr, I agree. By showing that video, they are making a martyr out of this guy, when in fact, I wish the piece of crap wouldn't have been so cowardly and take his own life.

[GrowlingTiger87]

Proponents of gun control should perhaps refrain from trying to capitalize on this tragedy.

In January of 2006, there was a proposed measure to allow students at Virginia Tech to carry weapons on campus for self-protection. The measure did not pass. The spokesperson for Virginia Tech expressed satisfaction that the measure failed, and stated that students and faculty & staff would now feel safer.

Food for thought.


The campus is a "gun free zone", and you see what happened. No matter how much "control" you put on guns, the bad guys are ALWAYS going to find a way to get their hands on them and do loads of damage.

[GrowlingTiger87]

If you didn't already see it, or if you did, this video is worth watching. It gives me goose bumps to watch and listen to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcMmIXt-4t8&mode=related&search=

[Kamd50]

VT may eventually be alright, but it is quite a different story for the families of those who were murdered.

[GrowlingTiger87]

I agree, kamd. Those are the people we should focus on, not the nutjob that killed them.

[MTigers006]

the killers own aunt called him an Idiot on CNN. Said he was very cold.

[austinsm11]

I am on the bubble about gun control. I don't own any but I know many people who do. However, when a mental patient can walk in and buy a gun, then something obviously needs to be done.

I was just thinking this the other night.


They said on tv the other day that police thought they had the person from the first shootings and thought it was an act from a jealous boy. They were about to start questioning him when the next shootings started to happen. If this is true this is probably why there wasn't more of an alert to the whole campus.

[longtimefirsttime]

"School threats sweep country"
http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/school-threats-sweep-country/n20070419213109990025?ecid=RSS0001

Also, "on Thursday, university officials announced that Cho's victims would be awarded their degrees posthumously during commencement." (Source, AP)

[DAWGH8R]

This is a report from a South Korean media outlet:
"Meanwhile, the father of Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-hui reportedly committed suicide. Radio Korea, a broadcaster for Korean expatriates in Los Angeles, said rumors spread in Virginia’s Korean community that the killer’s father slashed a main artery with a knife after learning that his son was identified as the gunman in the shooting massacre. The shooter’s mother also tried to kill herself but failed and is in critical condition, the broadcaster added."


THESE REPORTS ARE NOT TRUE !!!

[longtimefirsttime]

My links and sources of information span the globe but I cannot personally attest for the accuracy of all articles by the South Korean media. It sounded a little fishy to me. Had that happened that would've been front page news in the U.S..

[longtimefirsttime]

His parents were reportedly transported to the hospital. However it reportedly was due to shock, not from a suicide attempt.
http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-chosparents,0,4860937.story?coll=ktla-news-2

[fyrewood]

I am on the bubble about gun control. I don't own any but I know many people who do. However, when a mental patient can walk in and buy a gun, then something obviously needs to be done.


The problem with supposed mental patients being able to walk in and buy a gun isn't because of a lack of enforcing gun buying regulations, the problem is with the medical community that has traditionally opposed making such records available on privacy grounds for those doing the background checks. The medical community needs to be forced to release this information when a person with a history of psychological problems attempts to buy a firearm.

[MTigers006]

You hit the nail right on the head fyrewood.

[longtimefirsttime]

"In the aftermath of Monday’s deadly shooting in Blacksburg, Virginia, Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) is proposing a comprehensive, three-point plan to deal with the violence plaguing America, including a ban on handguns."

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=62819
I know this will draw a variety of reactions (anger, laughter, acceptance) here.

[DAWGH8R]

What a pipe dream !! They will NEVER take away handguns from Americans !!

[MTigers006]

I just wanted to make one more statement before we put this to bed because the students want to move on and heal and I think that is the best thing for everyone. To never forget, but to move on. That it the best way to honor the dead.

I am an Ohio State fan, but I wanted to say that I am very proud of the students of Virginia Tech in there unbelievable display of courage and school spirit. I agree with them that Virginia Tech should be remembered for how it was in the past. Not because of this horific tragedy. Here is hoping the Hokie Spirit lives on and because stronger than ever. To the heros, I hope thier heroic deeds are never forgotten.

With that it is time to let this thread die and look toward the future and move on while keeping eveyrone in our prayers.

God Bless Virginia Tech, the familes and the victims.

[DAWGH8R]

I agree with them that Virginia Tech should be remembered for how it was in the past. Not because of this horific tragedy. .


Va Tech's past few years isn't much that you'd want to remember. They were on the same track as Miami of Florida !!

[obie7661]

VA Tech gunman shot victims over 100 times

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VIRGINIA_TECH_INVESTIGATION?SITE=FLROC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-04-23-03-02-52

[obie7661]

Somewhere, right now, a mind churns

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070422/COL01/704220628