Rose is gone from Glenoak [Archive]

MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp

03-12-2007, 04:32 PM

Rose's signature win at GlenOak came in the 2000 season, a 7-0 win over Canton McKinley. That win propelled the Eagles to appearances in the Division I state playoffs.

Rose also coached a nationally ranked team in Massillon back in 1996 as they were #1 in the state and #2 in the nation prior to the week 10 battle against #6 Canton McKinley.

Since 1996, Rose is one of two coaches in Stark County to lead nationally-ranked teams (Thom McDaniels was the other).

crackerman

03-12-2007, 04:45 PM

Bottom line, Jack was not given a fair shot to win at GlenOak by the administration. He lost many assistants along the line (over the past 3 years) because the district would not create jobs for them (I can name 6 coaches he lost in last 3 years)....or better yet, rather than say create...they wouldnt place the guys where they should of been placed. Now.... the whole offensive/Battershell thing was on him, but the rest he couldnt control. Also, people have a misconception on the number of athletes that walk the halls at GlenOak, its not as overpopulated with great athletes as people think.

MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp

03-12-2007, 04:46 PM

Crackerman,

There are 1,424 students enrolled at GlenOak High School.

crackerman

03-12-2007, 04:49 PM

OTC TIGER

03-12-2007, 05:50 PM

that doesnt mean there are 1,400 great athletes. It is also a very tough situation mixing as a team and as a district when you have a kid living in a $750,000 Avondale estate blocking next to a kid who is from CHIPS (Canton Housing projects).

College programs are filled with athletes in your example...Ohio St.
Florida, Kent St. they get done with those demographics..it's about getting
your message across

Banks

03-12-2007, 07:00 PM

This may end up being a good thing for Massillon.

crackerman

03-12-2007, 07:03 PM

College programs are filled with athletes in your example...Ohio St.
Florida, Kent St. they get done with those demographics..it's about getting
your message across

Moronic quote...Im sorry. College football and High school football are 2 different things, those kids go there by choice, not by where they live. BTW, since when did Kent St. become a football powerhouse for you to use them in the same sentence as Ohio St. and Florida?

tiger#22

03-12-2007, 07:47 PM

that doesnt mean there are 1,400 great athletes. It is also a very tough situation mixing as a team and as a district when you have a kid living in a $750,000 Avondale estate blocking next to a kid who is from CHIPS (Canton Housing projects).

Name another school in the County that doesnt have that problem,,,upper and lower class kids on the same teams.

crackerman

03-12-2007, 08:00 PM

with the vast difference socio-economically that GlenOak has? ummm where should I start:

1) Jackson
2) Massillon
3) McKinley
4) Hoover
5) Tuslaw
6) Louisville

Should I continue naming schools?
Living in an $200,000 home in NE side of Massillon and playing with a kid from Erie Street is NOT the same as a kid coming Millionaire families playing with kids from the projects, I dont care how you try to slice it.

Zoner

03-12-2007, 08:06 PM

Crackerman,
I usually agree with you on most things but you're way off here.
All schools balance the haves with the have nots.
Massillon is way up on that list as is Tuslaw from my experience.
Glenoak is no different in that respect.
The fact is Rose under-achieved on way more than one occasion.
I still can't believe he lasted here as long as he did.

crackerman

03-12-2007, 08:32 PM

trust me, Massillon and Tuslaw are not the same as GlenOak...anyone can argue it, just trust me on this one. I can name you five neighborhoods in Plain with each one having over 20 homes, everyone of which, is worth over $300,000. That my friend you do not, nor will not, find in Massillon. Tuslaw also does not have a housing project like CHIPS.

mmauthor

03-12-2007, 10:51 PM

I would be interested to have Crackerman give some tangible reasons why the kids with different socioeconomic backgrounds have trouble playing together. Sounds like Remember the Titans.

tiger74

03-12-2007, 10:58 PM

to me rose is not a good div 1 head coach. he knows nothing about working on SPEED. massillon was super slow when he was here. why do you think he kept losing to mckinley? umm NO SPEED!!!!! when one of your fastest kids only runs a 4.6 and your playing a team full of speedsters like miami southridge. well you see the results. If we had rose we would have never beat hamilton that arizona team this year. If they cared more about football over at glenoak then rose would have been gone sooner. just my thoughts on rose some will disagree but everyone has a right to there own opinion.

tiger74

03-12-2007, 11:06 PM

for me if the parents are not teaching there kids that it doesn't matter were you came from. then that could be a problem when you try to get one side to play for the other. Isn't trust a big part of football/sports if you don't trust the guy next to you just because he is different then you, then you can't accomplish nothing.just my thought.

longtimefirsttime

03-12-2007, 11:40 PM

Cracker, you've mentioned that you are friends. I understand your desire to defend him. But I'm not buying the "socioeconomic" argument, although the losing assistants probably did have some impact. The coach has to share much of the blame to have one of the larger schools in Ohio with some of the talent they've had (Dustin Fox, TJ Downing, the Hartlines, Joey Card, etc.) and nothing to show for it.

OVERALL FEDERAL
1999 5-5 2-4 5th
2000 8-2 4-2 3rd (tie)
2001 5-5 2-4 4th (tie)
2002 3-7 2-4 4th (tie)
2003 6-4 2-2 2nd (tie)
2004 7-3 5-2 2nd (tie)
2005 4-6 2-5 6th
2006 3-7 1-6 6th
TOTAL 41-39 20-29

I don't won't this to look like a bashfest. I'm just listing the facts. I would welcome him at Massillon as an assistant.

longtimefirsttime

03-13-2007, 12:28 AM

Rose is looking at his options.
http://indeonline.com/index.php?ID=14600&Category=2

Red50Go

03-13-2007, 09:25 AM

Mixed feelings. Won a state title, appeared in another. Had some big wins & stellar records at Massillon - Moeller, Lima, 100th mtg. Took over an 0-10 hapless pathetic disinterested Glenoak team w/ no community or financial support to an overal winning record and 1st playoff win.

But. Couldn't beat Mckinley. Granted, was an underdog in more than a few. And could not get GO over the hump. Overall, I say he is very solid in fundamentals but there is part of the game that maybe passed him by. Developing team speed and a passing game just not his forte I guess. I think he would make a great assistant though. Class guy who'd represent us well. I dont think his heart ever left Massillon.

One thing though, when he did have some speed, especially at QB, we had some exellent rush offenses. We really ran those sprint out options w/ Danzy and Spencer well.

CarlE

03-13-2007, 09:36 AM

But. Couldn't beat Mckinley.

Period. And I'm sorry the underdog wins that game a LOT of times, Red. Also, no team speed fundamentals at all. My opinion.

giant lugey

03-13-2007, 09:40 AM

I just can't see him coming back to Massillon as an assistant, when he once was the head coach and was fired.
I can see him to going to Jackson as an assistant under McDaniels though.

MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp

03-13-2007, 11:21 AM

Jack Rose was 3-5 against Canton McKinley at GlenOak. Obviously he fared better against the Bulldogs as the Eagles pilot than he did as the kingpin of the Massillon Tigers.

Overall, Rose is 4-11 against Canton McKinley overall in his career. He was 1-6 against current Jackson head coach Thom McDaniels and 1-3 against current Canton McKinley leader of the dog pound Brian Cross.

Those records are not so rosy but the record against Canton McKinley overall at GlenOak is respectable though.

CarlE

03-13-2007, 11:48 AM

Al.

03-13-2007, 11:48 AM

Jack Rose was 3-5 against Canton McKinley at GlenOak. Obviously he fared better against the Bulldogs as the Eagles pilot than he did as the kingpin of the Massillon Tigers.
Overall, Rose is 4-11 against Canton McKinley overall in his career. He was 1-6 against current Jackson head coach Thom McDaniels and 1-3 against current Canton McKinley leader of the dog pound Brian Cross.
Those records are not so rosy but the record against Canton McKinley overall at GlenOak is respectable though.

Either way you slice it; his winning record against Mckinley (37.5%) while at Glenoak vs. ( 26.7%) overall career, still stinks.

MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp

03-13-2007, 12:12 PM

CarlE,

If it's any worth...Rose was a dismal 4-10 combined against Canton McKinley head coaches Thom McDaniels, John Miller, and Brian Cross...and those are coaching matchups.

You probably won't get an argument with me on your post regarding three wins in eight attempts.

Chalk up another win for you and another loss for me. But at least it's to a person full of class and dignity and I can live with that.

Red50Go

03-13-2007, 12:16 PM

3-5 is RESPECTABLE??? Perhaps where you come from son but SURE as hell not in my world.

Lol. No not in our world. But in the Fed world even Perry's 2-12 record vs Massillon is 'proof' they can hang.

OTC TIGER

03-13-2007, 12:36 PM

Moronic quote...Im sorry. College football and High school football are 2 different things, those kids go there by choice, not by where they live. BTW, since when did Kent St. become a football powerhouse for you to use them in the same sentence as Ohio St. and Florida?

How is High School & College football different regarding socioeconomics..
yes kids go to college by choice..so what..high school kids have a choice to
play or not to play..Should Troy Smith have not chosen Ohio St. Knowing that
Tony Gonzalez was going to OSU? Two very different backgrounds here.

Football is the ultimate team game..when you break the huddle the Safty
sure as he!! isn't thinking WOW our DE lives in a 700,000 dollar home and
I'm from the projects let him make the tackle.

As far as Kent St. they were mentioned as another school that has athletes
from all different socioeconomics..there was no mention about who's a
powerhouse here..

The only thing moronic is using socioeconomics as an excuse for an average
Head Coach

CarlE

03-13-2007, 12:48 PM

Cracka:

You are digging yourself a hole here, my friend. I couldn't disagree with you more. And I DO agree with OTC Tiger about the DE not giving a rat's a$$ where the linebacker lives when it comes game time. Sorry bro. You missed the mark with this one.

crackerman

03-13-2007, 01:38 PM

No, I am right and I will tell you why.
Successful football teams, especially at the high school level, are ones who do things together, who spend time together off the field. At Plain(GO), they do not ride the buses together, they do not eat together, they do not hang out together in any setting. They practice together and thats it. This is why people from Massillon get a warped sense on things at times...not everyone is like Massillon where it is bred in you, where you accept people for who they are. There is a education book called "why do all the black kids sit together at lunch" that you need to read if you want to know the effects on socio-econimc problems in some districts.
And please....again....leave the comparison between college and high school out of this...it is a total different situation.
Most of you dont even know where is GlenOak High School is, let alone the problems that face that school. It is very hard to try to know something about a place unless you have walked those halls or you have lived/worked in that district.

crackerman

03-13-2007, 01:41 PM

monte81

03-13-2007, 02:24 PM

Cracker---You are right in the widened economic disparity in Plain and its true that in Massillon the football team brings people together that under normal circumstances would not even hold a conversation. My mom's house is always filled with present, past ,and future tigers of all races and money and you cannot find that kind of togetherness in other schools. However a coach should be able to mold his players to stand together and fight as a team regardless of economic differances but I never coached or played in Glenoak! I would have a problem with any teammate not gong 100% for any reason--especially money--that kid would have to be released from my team! Money and power still is the measuring stick in the US and it has always trickeled down to our children in the way they think and act towards other people--UNFORTUNANTELY when not raised properly!

SuperBran

03-13-2007, 02:47 PM

However a coach should be able to mold his players to stand together and fight as a team regardless of economic differances

exactly.

if socio-economic disparity plays such a huge role, then that means one of two things:

either (1) rose was not the right coach to bring people together, and thus shoudn't be there, OR (2) glenoak has absolutely no hope of ever doing anything no matter who the coach is.

OTC TIGER

03-13-2007, 05:34 PM

and OTCtiger, you spoke on the different background on Tony Gonzalez and Troy Smith. Tell me the difference. Tell me the life that Tony Gonzalez lived growing up as a child....or are you just assuming that since Togo went to Ignatius he came from money and Troy went to Glenville so he didnt? Tell me what his parents did for a living and the type of home he was raised in. Your all speculation on this one.

Let me end the "speculation"...Gonzalez's or Togo (as you put it) Father is in the medical field and does very well financially speaking..and the fact that Ignatius does NOT offer scholarships and the fact that tuition there was 8000.00 plus when he attended Ignatius should clear up any misconception
In addition to that...Gonzo and Smith began a friendship in the 10th grade in
track season while competeing against each other...another example of backgrounds not being relevant.

tiger74

03-13-2007, 06:07 PM

monte that was kinda what I was trying to say with my post about teaching your kids that is doesn't matter where you came from. also when did smith transfer from st. eds. to glenville? I just don't think rose will be back here but you never know. do any of you think rose being back here would cause one group of people to voice out against stacy?

Obie Wan

03-13-2007, 06:30 PM

Ignatius does NOT offer scholarships
This is absolutely incorrect.

crackerman

03-13-2007, 08:22 PM

They offer "academic" scholarships and also offer tuition assistance/financial aid. If you want to argue that one, ask Eric Gholstein who would of been a Senate league kid if not for that financial aid.

crackerman

03-13-2007, 08:24 PM

In addition to that...Gonzo and Smith began a friendship in the 10th grade in
track season while competeing against each other...another example of backgrounds not being relevant.

Oh yeah I forgot...that would of been when Troy was at St. Ed's right? because St. Ed's and Ignatius are so much different. In case you didnt know Smith was at St. Ed's for 2 years.

Benchboss1

03-13-2007, 08:52 PM

OTC TIGER

03-13-2007, 11:19 PM

This is absolutely incorrect.

They do not offer completely paid tuition for anyone

OTC TIGER

03-13-2007, 11:34 PM

Oh yeah I forgot...that would of been when Troy was at St. Ed's right? because St. Ed's and Ignatius are so much different. In case you didnt know Smith was at St. Ed's for 2 years.

Wrong again...I'm well aware of the fact that Smith attended St. Ed's..At
Glenville Smith ran track and was consistently beaten by Gonzo in the 100.
For the record Ginn Jr. was also beaten in the 100 by Gonzo in high school.

And actually Iggy does differ from Ed's in as much as Iggy does not except
transfers (unless you have moved from out of state) after 9th grade where as Ed's will

crackerman

03-14-2007, 08:45 AM

right again, because Smith's 10th grade year would of been at St. Ed's. Also, if there is a financial need, complete tuition can be paid and HAS been paid for students in the past. Thanks for playing.

giant lugey

03-14-2007, 09:21 AM

crackerman

03-14-2007, 05:16 PM

Are you kidding me? None of the kids on that team were from low income housing or CHIPS. Gimme a break

LLRose

03-18-2007, 12:25 PM

Crackerman is 100% correct, trust ME. Glen Oak is with out a doubt one of the most difficult jobs in the state because of the socioeconomic make-up of the student-athletes. It is almost impossible to develop a "TEAM" atmosphere. For example, many of the players grow up playing in different youth programs. Kids play in the Canton City youth league program and many in the Plain Local Football League.

Ignorance is bliss on this site when it comes to understanding the difficulties of winning at G O. Trust ME.

LLRose

03-18-2007, 12:32 PM

I believe Glen Oak won back to back state titels in baseball not long ago. I know they won one for sure, so they were able to bring their
socio-economically disfuctional kids together for that.
There is no reason they should not have success in football.

You just made Crackerman's point and don't even know it!

The baseball team at GO is not socioeconomically diverse, unlike the football team.

Trust ME.

PS, why did Commings win at Massillon but not GO?

tiger#22

03-18-2007, 12:34 PM

LLRose

03-18-2007, 05:59 PM

It just sounds like a bunch of excuses from the largest high school in Stark County who havent ever done anything in football. :cry: We cant create a team atmosphere..:cry: We have poor kids and rich kids all mixed together on the same team.....Some of our kids are in Canton and some are in Plain..

Please explain. You don't make any sense.

We have poor kids and rich kids all mixed together on the same team
not even close to the spread in Plain Twp.

Some of our kids are in Canton and some are in Plain
Are you referring to half the starting defense from the '86 Tiger team?

CarlE

03-18-2007, 06:30 PM

Please explain. You don't make any sense.

We have poor kids and rich kids all mixed together on the same team
not even close to the spread in Plain Twp.

Some of our kids are in Canton and some are in Plain
Are you referring to half the starting defense from the '86 Tiger team?

I THINK what he was trying to do was simulate crying from the GlenOak faithful and using those statements as examples.

SuperBran

03-18-2007, 07:05 PM

Glen Oak is with out a doubt one of the most difficult jobs in the state because of the socioeconomic make-up of the student-athletes.

how many coaching jobs around the state have you had in order to back up that claim?

again, if socio-economics play such a huge role, then we have to admit that either (1) glen oak has absolutely no hope of ever doing anything in football (and if that's the case, it doesn't matter who they bring in, or (2) that rose just isn't the guy for the job.

LLRose

03-18-2007, 07:17 PM

I THINK what he was trying to do was simulate crying from the GlenOak faithful and using those statements as examples.

GlenOak faithful?

I know you're not referring to me. Do you mean Crackerman?

LLRose

03-18-2007, 07:24 PM

how many coaching jobs around the state have you had in order to back up that claim?

again, if socio-economics play such a huge role, then we have to admit that either (1) glen oak has absolutely no hope of ever doing anything in football (and if that's the case, it doesn't matter who they bring in, or (2) that rose just isn't the guy for the job.

What does the number of coaching jobs I've had around the state have anything to do with having an opinion based on fact?

Name one successful high school program in Ohio that mirrors Plain Townships socioeconomic make-up. Don't bother, there isn't one.

(1) (2) Bob Commings couldn't win there. Did you consider Bob a great coach? I don't know about you, I think he knew a little about football.

SuperBran

03-18-2007, 07:44 PM

What does the number of coaching jobs I've had around the state have anything to do with having an opinion based on fact?

Name one successful high school program in Ohio that mirrors Plain Townships socioeconomic make-up. Don't bother, there isn't one.

(1) (2) Bob Commings couldn't win there. Did you consider Bob a great coach? I don't know about you, I think he knew a little about football.

you're telling eveyone to trust you, going on about how GO is one of the toughest places to coach. well, if that's you opinion based on fact, then please show me those facts. for you to say that it's definitely one of the toughest places to coach then obviously you'd have to have a lot of experience at a lot of different schools to make such a claim.

what the heck does bob commings have to do with it? you make absolutely no sense and obviously didn't take the time to actually read my post. i said that if socio-economics played such a role then either GO is hopeless or rose just wasn't the man for the job (to being those kids together). you can be a GREAT football coach when it comes to X's and O's, and still not know how to bring your team together. in the alternative, you can be a GREAT coach when it comes to motivating your players, but average when it comes to preparing them.

perhaps commings, wasn't the right guy to bridge that gap.

so answer my question. which is it? was rose simply not the guy to bring kids together, or would NO coach be able to do anything at GO?

Benchboss1

03-18-2007, 08:20 PM

Name one successful high school program in Ohio that mirrors Plain Townships socioeconomic make-up. Don't bother, there isn't one.

Maybe Cincy Colerain?

CarlE

03-18-2007, 08:33 PM

GlenOak faithful?

I know you're not referring to me. Do you mean Crackerman?

I wasn't referring to ANYONE, Einstein. I was referencing who I THINK tiger#22 was referring to; the GlenOak fan that would cry the excuses he mentions. Now, if I have to go slower for you, let me know, OK?

LLRose

03-18-2007, 09:18 PM

I wasn't referring to ANYONE, Einstein. I was referencing who I THINK tiger#22 was referring to; the GlenOak fan that would cry the excuses he mentions. Now, if I have to go slower for you, let me know, OK?

Blah blah blah

Son, nice try.................... I'm not playing your silly game.

LLRose

03-18-2007, 09:28 PM

Maybe Cincy Colerain?

Colerain is on the near west side of Cincinnati 100% developed with no new housing sub division development like Plain Township.

LLRose

03-18-2007, 09:32 PM

so answer my question. which is it? was rose simply not the guy to bring kids together, or would NO coach be able to do anything at GO?[/QUOTE]

I did, if Bob Commings couldn't do it who can? (no one)

SuperBran

03-18-2007, 09:34 PM

Colerain is on the near west side of Cincinnati 100% developed with no new housing sub division development like Plain Township.

what the heck does new sub divisions have to do with it? there's VERY few new housing developments going up in cincy unless you move WAY out into the suburbs. but i guess you knew that.

i LIVE in cincy, so trust ME. if you think that new suburbs equals affluent communities you're dead wrong.

SuperBran

03-18-2007, 09:42 PM

I did, if Bob Commings couldn't do it who can? (no one)

sorry, but commings wasn't the greatest coach of all time.

so there's NO coach in this entire world who could bring the kids together? that's ridiculous.

BTW - commings won 64% of his games at GO, so he proved he could win.

based on your screen name, it appears that you probably have a close connection to rose. sorry, but he just isn't that great of a coach.

tiger#22

03-18-2007, 10:26 PM

I THINK what he was trying to do was simulate crying from the GlenOak faithful and using those statements as examples.

Thanks Carl, it is hard for those that make the lame excuses to understand common sense. I am just glad that coaches at Massillon, Mckinley, Perry, Jackson and any other school in the County dont have any problems with trying to get kids to play together as a team.:wtf:

tiger#22

03-18-2007, 10:31 PM

Name one successful high school program in Ohio that mirrors Plain Townships socioeconomic make-up. Don't bother, there isn't one.

So you think there isnt another high school in the state of Ohio which has kids on the football team that live in million dollars houses and kids that live in low-income housing? Obviously you know that for a fact so please give us the facts to back it up.

longtimefirsttime

03-19-2007, 12:52 AM

SuperBran

03-19-2007, 09:43 AM

If anyone has the time to further the research, here are the stats for Plain Township.

There are 2087 students at the high school.
The population, at the time of the 2000 census, was 51,997.
The median household income is $45,477
Their ethnic breakdown is 89% white, 9% black and 2% "other."
(The state average is 75%/19%/3%)

(Sources include census data & http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/64646 )

here are the stats for colerain.

http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/63868

There are 2062 students at the high school. GO has 2087.
The population is 24,019 (compared to GO's 51,997).
The median household income is $51,858 (GO is $45,477)
Their ethnic breakdown is 84% white, 13% black and 3% "other." GO is 89% white, 9% black and 2% "other."
Median value of housing rate is $94,800. GO is $95,100.

Seeker

03-19-2007, 09:53 AM

There are 2062 students at the high school. GO has 2087.
The population is 24,019 (compared to GO's 51,997).

I think there is a question being begged here.
Half the population and the same size student body?

Is the whole of Colerain's demographic younger people with children?

As a local, please shed some light on this.

:vconst:

SuperBran

03-19-2007, 11:00 AM

I think there is a question being begged here.
Half the population and the same size student body?

Is the whole of Colerain's demographic younger people with children?

As a local, please shed some light on this.

:vconst:

actually, i think that number is a little off. I do know that in the present figures they have about 927 boys and 868 girls....so roughly 1800 kids.

also, the population figure was for the zip code, and colerain is right on the border of that zip code area. i'm sure there are more people that they draw from.

LLRose

03-21-2007, 03:54 PM

what the heck does new sub divisions have to do with it? there's VERY few new housing developments going up in cincy unless you move WAY out into the suburbs. but i guess you knew that.

i LIVE in cincy, so trust ME. if you think that new suburbs equals affluent communities you're dead wrong.

I'm sorry if you don't understand urban sprawl.

I never said anything about affluent communities. Middle /upper middle class is more accurate.

Crackerman was correct and no one can come-up with an example of a district around the state similar to GlenOak's socioeconomic diversity.

SuperBran

03-21-2007, 04:10 PM

I'm sorry if you don't understand urban sprawl.

I never said anything about affluent communities. Middle /upper middle class is more accurate.

Crackerman was correct and no one can come-up with an example of a district around the state similar to GlenOak's socioeconomic diversity.

i think we just did come up with an example.

btw - new housing has no correlation to middle/upper middle class. i can name you MANY communities around here that are middle/upper middle class who haven't seen new housing in years. on the flip side i can name you many developments in the greater cincy area that comprise starter homes for lower middle class families. sorry if you don't understand reality.

rose simply wasn't the man for the job. so why complain?

LLRose

03-23-2007, 02:05 PM

i think we just did come up with an example.

btw - new housing has no correlation to middle/upper middle class. i can name you MANY communities around here that are middle/upper middle class who haven't seen new housing in years. on the flip side i can name you many developments in the greater cincy area that comprise starter homes for lower middle class families. sorry if you don't understand reality.

rose simply wasn't the man for the job. so why complain?

Sorry you stated Median income and Median home value.................I don't have the time to give you a stats class, however that is an awful way to compare socioeconomic diversity.

The median home value does not include Government Housing.

SuperBran

03-23-2007, 02:29 PM

Sorry you stated Median income and Median home value.................I don't have the time to give you a stats class, however that is an awful way to compare socioeconomic diversity.

The median home value does not include Government Housing.

i'm telling you that colerain is very similar to GO. you have rich kids, and you have poor kids. you have expensive houses and housing projects. i know because i grew up in massillon and live in cincy. if you don't believe me, then please come down here and i'll drive you around to show you.

either way, does it actually REALLY matter? he wasn't a great coach. he clearly wasn't the man for the job. he's gone. who cares? i refuse to believe that NO football coach in this state could be successful at GO.

LLRose

03-29-2007, 10:38 PM

However he won a State Championship.

longtimefirsttime

03-30-2007, 02:27 AM

However he won a State Championship.

In Division IV. In 1984.

(I would welcome him here as an assistant.)

CarlE

03-30-2007, 07:35 AM

In Division IV. In 1984.

(I would welcome him here as an assistant.)

REALLY? Geez, LL I DOUBT I would be bragging on that one. Oh yeah it wasn't YOU.

Smitty

03-30-2007, 11:36 AM

i'm telling you that colerain is very similar to GO.... if you don't believe me, then please come down here....

I've worked a couple days at a certain chiropractic office on Colerain Blvd (near the VW dealership) about 2 years ago; I know, that's not seeing much of the residential area of Colerain Twp. FWIW, I was NOT impressed with the population demographic that I saw (as patients), and certainly would NOT compair Colerain with GO on any level.

SuperBran

03-30-2007, 12:00 PM

I've worked a couple days at a certain chiropractic office on Colerain Blvd (near the VW dealership) about 2 years ago; I know, that's not seeing much of the residential area of Colerain Twp. FWIW, I was NOT impressed with the population demographic that I saw (as patients), and certainly would NOT compair Colerain with GO on any level.

as you mentioned, you would probably have to see more of the area.

there are very wealthy kids and poor kids at colerain.

LLRose

03-30-2007, 12:20 PM

LLRose

03-30-2007, 12:26 PM

as you mentioned, you would probably have to see more of the area.

there are very wealthy kids and poor kids at colerain.

Respectfully, you don't get it.

LLRose

03-30-2007, 12:36 PM

REALLY? Geez, LL I DOUBT I would be bragging on that one. Oh yeah it wasn't YOU.

What is it about state championships that you don't like or respect? Any Massillon fan that cracks on a state championship 23 years ago needs to take a reality check. You don't respect the division? Why did we play St V, Steubenville and others for so many years. (because they played great football)

I'd put the mid '80s Aquinas teams against any in NE OHIO during that time in history regardless of division.

What has Aquinas done since Jack left? hummmmmmmmm

Jack's record at GO was comparable to Commings and any other coach that school has had.

SuperBran

03-30-2007, 12:37 PM

Respectfully, you don't get it.

respectfully, you have no clue.

what don't i get?

so someone who works down here for a couple of days knows more than someone who's been LIVING down here for 8 years? you really don't get it.

SuperBran

03-30-2007, 12:47 PM

Jack's record at GO was comparable to Commings and any other coach that school has had.

wasn't rose's record at GO 41-39? that's a winning percentage of 51%, since you enjoy statistics.

wasn't commings 76-44? that's a winning percentage of 63%.

so how are they comparable?

i know that you have some loyalty to him, but c'mon now. rose just wasn't a great coach, and one championship doesn't automatically make him a great coach.

CarlE

03-30-2007, 12:58 PM

I'd put the mid '80s Aquinas teams against any in NE OHIO during that time in history regardless of division.

You would? Then I would like to thank you for proving what we already knew. You are CLUELESS. Especially about football. By the way, how's that great coach at Ft. Myers doing? Yeah, I thought so.

longtimefirsttime

03-30-2007, 01:06 PM

What is it about state championships that you don't like or respect? Any Massillon fan that cracks on a state championship 23 years ago needs to take a reality check. You don't respect the division?

No I don’t respect Rose’s head coaching ability.

I'd put the mid '80s Aquinas teams against any in NE OHIO during that time in history regardless of division.
Really? Massillon? Mooney? McKinley? Moeller? CAPE?

What has Aquinas done since Jack left? hummmmmmmmm They’ve made the playoffs several times. The better question is what has HE done since he left (especially at GlenOak)?
Just for the record GlenOak’s record from 2001-2006 was 29-33. Aquinas was 30-29.

Jack's record at GO was comparable to Commings and any other coach that school has had.

I agree with SuperBran. Either “Glenoak has absolutely no hope of ever doing anything in football (and if that's the case, it doesn't matter who they bring in, or (2) that rose just isn't the guy for the job.” So which is it?

CarlE

03-30-2007, 02:04 PM

LTFT, this is the most research I've EVER seen you do for a post. And not one dang link in the entire response. I swear, I'm tearing up I'm so dang proud of you.

longtimefirsttime

03-30-2007, 02:21 PM

CarlE-Here is another stat (without a link). During Rose's head coaching tenure at GlenOak, St. Thomas Aquinas has qualified for the playoffs THE SAME NUMBER of times as GlenOak has.

LLRose

04-01-2007, 12:18 PM

CarlE-Here is another stat (without a link). During Rose's head coaching tenure at GlenOak, St. Thomas Aquinas has qualified for the playoffs THE SAME NUMBER of times as GlenOak has.

Apples and oranges
How many years was Jackie at GO vs. how many years has he been gone from Aquinas?

How about this?

How many times did Aquinas make the playoff when Jack was a head coach at a different school?

You can't argue the Aquinas program is light years away from the dynasty he built in the '80s.

LLRose

04-01-2007, 12:36 PM

No I don’t respect Rose’s head coaching ability.

Really? Massillon? Mooney? McKinley? Moeller? CAPE?
NE OHIO, yes Massillon, Mooney, McK anyone regardless of the division

They’ve made the playoffs several times. The better question is what has HE done since he left (especially at GlenOak)?
Just for the record GlenOak’s record from 2001-2006 was 29-33. Aquinas was 30-29.
He took over a trash can program at Aquinas and built a state power that is why the record was .500. 1 state title and a runner-up vs. the greatest Ohio high school team I ever saw play in the 80s-90s era (CAPE). Vince Clark, #1 NFL draft pick and Carlos Snow, Big Ten Rookie of the year and a sure fire #1 draft pick if he hadn't dislocated his hip. He could have been Emmit Smith if he didn't get hurt.

He had the same success as any head coach in Massillon history since Currence (consistent playoff appearances with 0 state titles) Although I love Coach Stacey's current run and would put him ahead of Jack's tenure at Massillon. It's about state championships, you can't win on unless you make it to the title game. Stacey made it to the championship game and I recognize that as a super coaching accomplishment.

I agree with SuperBran. Either “Glenoak has absolutely no hope of ever doing anything in football (and if that's the case, it doesn't matter who they bring in, or (2) that rose just isn't the guy for the job.” So which is it?
I can't argue with this statement (I haven't during this tread) . GO is an awful job do to the socioeconomic diversity the district faces. If Jack and Bob couldn't do it I don't know if it is possible. (This is based on playing for state championships not Fed titles or an occasional playoff birth in the 8 team per region format)

LLRose

04-01-2007, 12:38 PM

You would? Then I would like to thank you for proving what we already knew. You are CLUELESS. Especially about football. By the way, how's that great coach at Ft. Myers doing? Yeah, I thought so.

He's doing as well as the guy from Valley View you and your posse were drooling over.

longtimefirsttime

04-01-2007, 01:34 PM

You can't argue the Aquinas program is light years away from the dynasty he built in the '80s.

Dynasty? DYNASTY??? A two year run is a dynasty? Ask 100 people statewide to name a top-notch smaller school program over the past 25 years. People will name Mooney, Versailles, Coldwater, Ursuline, Amanda ClearCreek, Delphos St. Johns, St. Henry, Jonathan Alder, Columbus Grove, Hamler Patrick Henry, Mogadore, Manchester, even Orrville. If two people would mention Aquinas, I would be EXTREMELY surprised. If you mention Aquinas outside of Stark County, the most common response is, "Who?" or "Where is that?" Not even close to dynasty material.

longtimefirsttime

04-01-2007, 01:39 PM

He's doing as well as the guy from Valley View you and your posse were drooling over.

Coach Stacy was the right hire for Massillon. But you're saying Rose had a dynasty winning one state title, while tearing down a guy who has won THREE (and has made the playoffs every year since 1992)? Makes perfect sense.

LLRose

04-04-2007, 07:41 PM

Dynasty? DYNASTY??? A two year run is a dynasty? Ask 100 people statewide to name a top-notch smaller school program over the past 25 years. People will name Mooney, Versailles, Coldwater, Ursuline, Amanda ClearCreek, Delphos St. Johns, St. Henry, Jonathan Alder, Columbus Grove, Hamler Patrick Henry, Mogadore, Manchester, even Orrville. If two people would mention Aquinas, I would be EXTREMELY surprised. If you mention Aquinas outside of Stark County, the most common response is, "Who?" or "Where is that?" Not even close to dynasty material.

Dynasty is a relative term and I misused it in this context. Nice catch.

To put the mid '80s run by Aquinas vs. most of the schools you mentioned is a stretch. Two consecutive trips to a state championship game would be the cost of entry.

Ursuline, Clearcreek, Alder, Manchester do not make the comparison.

"Even Orrville" Tipton had Orrville as a consistent contender every year playing for multiple state titles.

longtimefirsttime

04-05-2007, 02:15 AM

My point on Orrville is that even they, with their deep playoff runs, probably wouldn't be considered a dynasty team. Aquinas had some solid teams in the 80's. No one can deny that.

longtimefirsttime

04-08-2007, 03:46 AM

From Todd Porter's weekly Prep Notes column (the usual TP disclaimer applies):
"Plenty of rumors surround the impending transfer of GlenOak linebacker Matt Rose because his father is no longer the team's head coach. Rose, his dad Jack told us, hasn't enrolled in another school and may stay at GlenOak. Matt Rose has expressed interest in Lake, Hoover, Massillon and St. Thomas Aquinas. Should Garcia get the GlenOak job, it would seem 50-50 that Rose stays at GlenOak. If Rose does transfer - and that's a big if - it won't be until after the school year and to a school in which his father gets a coaching job."

You can read the entire column here.
http://cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=346992&Category=17&fromSearch=yes&subCategoryID=0

crackerman

04-09-2007, 06:43 PM

respectfully, you have no clue.

what don't i get?

so someone who works down here for a couple of days knows more than someone who's been LIVING down here for 8 years? you really don't get it.

1st off, Colerain is basically its own city and doesnt resemble GlenOak or Plain local at all that is basically a small suburb with no down town...Not in the least bit. You will find NOTHING street wise in Plain that resembles Colerain Ave...not even close. You would find things more like Cheviot rd. in Plain but nothing like Colerain Ave. Hell you drive on Colerain ave you will find 50 fast food restaurants, I can name you maybe 5 in Plain.

SuperBran

04-09-2007, 10:02 PM

1st off, Colerain is basically its own city and doesnt resemble GlenOak or Plain local at all that is basically a small suburb with no down town...Not in the least bit. You will find NOTHING street wise in Plain that resembles Colerain Ave...not even close. You would find things more like Cheviot rd. in Plain but nothing like Colerain Ave. Hell you drive on Colerain ave you will find 50 fast food restaurants, I can name you maybe 5 in Plain.

colerain is not basically it's own city. some people think of it like a city only because different areas in cincy are thought of as separate and distinct areas (e.g., hyde park, mt. adams, mt. lookout, price hill, etc.) even though they all share a cincinnati mailing address. now a place like norwood is it's own city and does have it's own mailing address (although it's odd that norwood is closer to downtown than colerain). colerain is simply a distinct area of cincy. saying that colerain is basically it's own city is like saying perry is basically it's own city.

even if colerain was considered a city, what does it matter what the area looks like compared to glenoak? i thougt we were talking about differences in economic status? it doesn't matter how the streets compare or how many fast food restaurants a place has. the fact remains that there's a wide range of economic "classes" that attend colerain. there are poor kids and there are rich kids. i was speaking with my assistant today and she told me that her mother and father in law live in colerain. they came down to visit her and her husband and were telling her how the area that they live in has been going downhill fast. what once was a nice place to live is now run down. there are nice areas of colerain and there are some pretty ugly neighborhoods.

btw - you mentioned cheviot road being more like what you'd find in plain township. did you know that colerain high school is located on cheviot road?

LLRose

04-11-2007, 02:51 PM

How do you convince someone the capitol of Ohio is Columbus when they argue it's Youngstown?

SuperBran

04-11-2007, 02:53 PM

How do you convince someone the capitol of Ohio is Columbus when they argue it's Youngstown?

you get a guy from columbus who actually lives there and knows about the city.

here's a better question...how do you convince someone who thinks that rose is a great coach that he truly isn't?

Smitty

04-11-2007, 02:54 PM

Does this same "someone" also believe Barberton is the capital of West Virginia?

CarlE

04-11-2007, 03:00 PM

here's a better question...how do you convince someone who thinks that rose is a great coach that he truly isn't?

Just ask any of the McKinley teams that stomped the crap out of his teams for verification.

LLRose

04-12-2007, 11:45 AM

you get a guy from columbus who actually lives there and knows about the city.

here's a better question...how do you convince someone who thinks that rose is a great coach that he truly isn't?

I'd look at his state championship trophy.

SuperBran

04-12-2007, 11:58 AM

I'd look at his state championship trophy.

even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.

one trophy doesn't make him great. sorry, but you'll find VERY few people who agree with you about him being a great coach....and all of those people would be family members.

obviously you have some connection with him (perhaps a family member) so i can understand why you're willfully blind.

LLRose

04-12-2007, 12:51 PM

even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.

one trophy doesn't make him great. sorry, but you'll find VERY few people who agree with you about him being a great coach....and all of those people would be family members.

obviously you have some connection with him (perhaps a family member) so i can understand why you're willfully blind.

Or maybe I played for him and I'm sick and tired of you and others trashing his teams