Troy Smith pushing Browns hard to draft him

[obie7661]

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/state/16581021.htm

[TigerLoverFromAfar]

Another 1st round draft pick to be ruined by the Browns.

[SuperBran]

Another 1st round draft pick to be ruined by the Browns.

there's absolutely no way the browns take him with the 3rd or 4th pick.

[pigskinmccarthy]

oh god yet another great QB to be drafted by the browns:wall: If the browns draft Troy Smith,Im buyin a pittsburgh jersey that day. Its obvious he cant run with the big boys as shown in the Title game.

[TigerDL71]

I might take Justin Zwick before I take Troy Smith

[monte81]

The Browns better get a line but with the 3rd or 4th pick take the stud-- Adrian Petterson is the sure pick for Cleveland if the Raiders do not take him!! It really does not take a rocket scientist to see Troy Smith is not a top 10 pick!

However playing at HOME with all that cash--- I would lobby for myself also if in that position!!!

[CarlE]

I might take Justin Zwick before I take Troy Smith

Oh boy here we go. I knew THIS was going to start sooner or later. Let the ride begin!!

[austinsm11]

I wouldn't take him in the second round either. Maybe the third.

[TigerLoverFromAfar]

Okay okay- Zwick over Smith? Are you frigging' kidding me? I remember another 5 letter last name QB that you all thought was the great white hope...remember C-O-U-C-H???? I do.
How about D-A-V-I-S? Remember him? I Do.

[TigerDL71]

im not saying if i were the browns that I would pick zwick or smith, if i were the browns I wouldnt pick either of them, i wouldn't pick a quarterback at all, i believe monte said it best, if Adrian Peterson is avaible get him if not then i hope they select a solid linemen either Joe Thomas from Wisconsin or big Alan Branch out of Michigan

[CarlE]

If Tampa Bay wins the coin toss with the Browns at the draft, you can take Joe Thomas off your wish list. We are salivating over him down here. Of course, with Bruce Allen and Gruden who the hell KNOWS what is going to happen?

[TigerNick]

I have faith in the Browns. I know they won't dissapoint me and stay consistant in their first round draft routine like they have in the past. They will probably take another WR with the 3rd pick. So, lets welcome Ted Ginn. Nobody needs offensive linemen. Nobody needs a top stud RB like Peterson, and QB situation? S--t, who needs that. LOL. WRS are the way to go. Maybe they will surprise us this year and take a Kicker with the 3rd pick. Yes, I have faith in the Browns, They will (like always) find a way to blow another draft. So, You go Browns, take that WR with the 3rd pick and let all the other teams have those top level Offensive Linemen and RBS and QBS.

[PDC]

Does it really matter who the Browns pick?

Somehow the pick will be a bust, suffer a career-ending injury, or some combination of both.

And I'll be at the stadium complaining about it with my season tickets in hand.

[SuperBran]

If Tampa Bay wins the coin toss with the Browns at the draft, you can take Joe Thomas off your wish list. We are salivating over him down here. Of course, with Bruce Allen and Gruden who the hell KNOWS what is going to happen?

i could see tampa possibly taking calvin johnson. he may be hard to pass up.

[CarlE]

i could see tampa possibly taking calvin johnson. he may be hard to pass up.

Unfortunately, with these two yahoos I could see us taking someone totally off the board, SuperBran.

[austinsm11]

I have faith in the Browns. I know they won't dissapoint me and stay consistant in their first round draft routine like they have in the past. They will probably take another WR with the 3rd pick. So, lets welcome Ted Ginn. Nobody needs offensive linemen. Nobody needs a top stud RB like Peterson, and QB situation? S--t, who needs that. LOL. WRS are the way to go. Maybe they will surprise us this year and take a Kicker with the 3rd pick. Yes, I have faith in the Browns, They will (like always) find a way to blow another draft. So, You go Browns, take that WR with the 3rd pick and let all the other teams have those top level Offensive Linemen and RBS and QBS.

I think we are good with WR. I say get a long snapper with the first round pick....or do we need a holder?

[obie7661]

I think we are good with WR. I say get a long snapper with the first round pick....or do we need a holder?

Dallas needs a holder more than the Browns.

[OTC TIGER]

Unfortunately, with these two yahoos I could see us taking someone totally off the board, SuperBran.

How bout Troy Smith..:smartass:

[OTC TIGER]

[QUOTE=TigerLoverFromAfar;35892]Okay okay- Zwick over Smith? Are you frigging' kidding me?QUOTE]

Surely you must remember Giovanni Carmazzi (3rd round) and Chris Redmon
(3rd round) over Tom Brady (6th round)...are you friggin kidding me? :doh:


Oh BTW...I'm positive you remember Ryan Leaf (1st rd)over Matt Hasselbeck
(6th rd) in 1998
are you friggin kidding me? :wall:

[chumly]

Maybe this will be the Bengal's first pick - he fits the mold:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AurbfVDR56paAqHNi9hJGpMcvrYF?slug=ap-lynchassault&prov=ap&type=lgns

[SuperBran]

[QUOTE]

Surely you must remember Giovanni Carmazzi (3rd round) and Chris Redmon
(3rd round) over Tom Brady (6th round)...are you friggin kidding me? :doh:


Oh BTW...I'm positive you remember Ryan Leaf (1st rd)over Matt Hasselbeck
(6th rd) in 1998
are you friggin kidding me? :wall:

surely you must remember that carmazzi and redmon were starters at their respective schools, and weren't back-ups under brady. same goes with leaf and hasselbeck.

and i'm positive you remember that we're talking about a guy (zwick) who couldn't beat out smith at osu.

apples to oranges.

[OTC TIGER]

[QUOTE=SuperBran;36073][QUOTE=OTC TIGER;36035]

surely you must remember that carmazzi and redmon were starters at their respective schools


Starters at their respective schools..LOL..Carmazzi at Hofstra..Now there's
a real football power..I suppose Zwick wouldn't have been good enough to
start at Hofstra :doh:

As for Redmon..did he win the 2000 Heisman

I guess Scott Eyster out of Delta State should be drafted ahead of Zwick
since he was their "starter"

BTW..Brady's Sr season was spent mostly as a backup to Drew Henson
Boy Henson's really lit it up hasn't he..:ohplease:

[SuperBran]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=SuperBran;36073]


Starters at their respective schools..LOL..Carmazzi at Hofstra..Now there's
a real football power..I suppose Zwick wouldn't have been good enough to
start at Hofstra :doh:

As for Redmon..did he win the 2000 Heisman

I guess Scott Eyster out of Delta State should be drafted ahead of Zwick
since he was their "starter"

BTW..Brady's Sr season was spent mostly as a backup to Drew Henson
Boy Henson's really lit it up hasn't he..:ohplease:

your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. you make your case for zwick over smith by pointing out that a guy like carmazzi was picked ahead of brady. you're forgetting the fact that SMITH BEAT OUT ZWICK AT OSU (because he was BETTER). we're not comparing starters from different schools here.....we're comparing players from the same school........where zwick couldn't beat out smith.

yeah, hofstra isn't a powerhouse, but just b/c you go to a small school with no football tradition doesn't mean you're not a great player. mississippi valley state university isn't a football powerhouse, but they had the greatest wr in the history of the nfl.

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't brady's last year the 1999 season? and wasn't he the starter that year? didn't henson start in 2000, when brady was gone? get your facts straight before you make an argument. brady started over henson every year he was there.

and what does redmond and the heisman have anything to do with it. no, he didn't win the heisman in 2000...weinke did. what's your point? is redmond even playing now? i know weinke is.

good effort, though.

[CarlE]

How bout Troy Smith..:smartass:

You are REALLY making yourself look stupid in this thread. Especially with SuperBran. He is eating your lunch, son.

[austinsm11]

Carle,

Who are the Bucs looking at? I have a feeling they may go with Calvin Johnson (Russell to Oakland, Thomas to Detroit). If the Raiders can get rid of Moss, however, I see them going with Johnson.

I have heard some talk of the Browns being interested in Quinn. If we take Peterson, I hope he is ok from the injury. I have mixed feelings on those two. I would be interested in trading down and then getting OL,DL and CB in the first 2 rounds.

I could go with Troy if he falls to the 4th round.

[CarlE]

Carle,

Who are the Bucs looking at? I have a feeling they may go with Calvin Johnson (Russell to Oakland, Thomas to Detroit). If the Raiders can get rid of Moss, however, I see them going with Johnson.

I have heard some talk of the Browns being interested in Quinn. If we take Peterson, I hope he is ok from the injury. I have mixed feelings on those two. I would be interested in trading down and then getting OL,DL and CB in the first 2 rounds.

I could go with Troy if he falls to the 4th round.


Austinsm11:

They are salivating over Thomas. Obviously Johnson is being much talked about as is Adrian Pederson to take some of the load off Cadillac. My hunch, though is that they will trade this pick for a veteran and a lower round draft pick. Gruden doesn't do well with young players. Hell, lately he hasn't been doing good with ANY players!! LOL

[OTC TIGER]

SuperBran...First I stand corrected on Brady my bad

Now then...I am not suggesting Zwick is better than Smith..the argument
is intended to prove that good NFL QB's can be had in the late rounds of the
draft I.E. Hasselbeck and Brady..what relevancy does it have if your a starter
or not..you can't have 2 NFL caliber QB's on one college team? Matt Cassel
backed up 2 Heisman Trophy winners..should he not have been drafted by the Pats because he did not start or could not beat out Carson and Leinart?
Your logic suggests that b/c Romo beat out Bledsoe in Dallas that Bledsoe is
not a better QB than Andrew Walter or Aaron Brooks in hapless Oakland.

Smith is better than Zwick NOW in College,who knows what the NFL will bring
there are no guarantees I.E. Leaf,Klingler..the list is long of High profile
college QB's who didn't make it.

[austinsm11]

Hmmmm....So if Thomas slips maybe the Bucs get nervous and will swap picks (assumming the Browns draft 3rd) and give us their 2nd round pick as well.

Oh, wait. Only the Browns are that stupid.

[OTC TIGER]

He is eating your lunch, son.

I didn't like it anyway,Dad :heee:

[SuperBran]

SuperBran...First I stand corrected on Brady my bad

Now then...I am not suggesting Zwick is better than Smith..the argument
is intended to prove that good NFL QB's can be had in the late rounds of the
draft I.E. Hasselbeck and Brady..what relevancy does it have if your a starter
or not..you can't have 2 NFL caliber QB's on one college team? Matt Cassel
backed up 2 Heisman Trophy winners..should he not have been drafted by the Pats because he did not start or could not beat out Carson and Leinart?
Your logic suggests that b/c Romo beat out Bledsoe in Dallas that Bledsoe is
not a better QB than Andrew Walter or Aaron Brooks in hapless Oakland.

Smith is better than Zwick NOW in College,who knows what the NFL will bring
there are no guarantees I.E. Leaf,Klingler..the list is long of High profile
college QB's who didn't make it.

i agree with your point about good qbs in the later rounds.

my argument was based on the string of post that i was reading. someone mentioned zwick ahead of smith. when someone commented that it would be crazy to draft zwick ahead of smith you argued the brady situation, however that's comparing apples to oranges since we're not comparing two qbs from different schools but rather two qbs who competed against each other.

we'll never know if zwick will be a better pro qb, however we do know that he was beaten out by smith. we also know that zwick hasn't started a game in a long time. therefore, it is ridiculous to think he'd go ahead of smith....unless there were politics involved; however, the fact that smith went on to win the heisman douses that fire.....and people who have watched both play will tell you that smith was simply better.

now, if zwick had transferred somewhere else and improved his skills then you might have an argument about him going first.

[TigerDL71]

i agree with your point about good qbs in the later rounds.

my argument was based on the string of post that i was reading. someone mentioned zwick ahead of smith. when someone commented that it would be crazy to draft zwick ahead of smith you argued the brady situation, however that's comparing apples to oranges since we're not comparing two qbs from different schools but rather two qbs who competed against each other.

we'll never know if zwick will be a better pro qb, however we do know that he was beaten out by smith. we also know that zwick hasn't started a game in a long time. therefore, it is ridiculous to think he'd go ahead of smith....unless there were politics involved; however, the fact that smith went on to win the heisman douses that fire.....and people who have watched both play will tell you that smith was simply better.

now, if zwick had transferred somewhere else and improved his skills then you might have an argument about him going first.


about politics? have you seen the way teams draft or the way that colleges recruit kids? some times its not about what kind of skills you posses.

lets look at how colleges recruit a lot of kids for starters. lets say you have player A who is 6' 0 but is list as 6'1 in the program and weighs 250 then you have player B is 6'6 300,they both play on the same high school team at left tackle and both are seniors but player A starts over player B and player A has far better skills. Now I bet you 8 times out of 10 a college coach will pick Player B for a D1 scholarship over Player A, why you ask? because a college coach sees him has having the size the body to play college ball at that level and they know they can teach him, player a may be a better player then him but he just doesn't have the size, look at kirk barton for instance, at perry he was a tall skinny kid that im sure many people wouldn't have thought about him going to ohio state and playing TACKLE but ohio state seen pretty much what i just talked about and signed him to a scholarship.this same thing happened at massillon as well a few years ago


now lets go to our case with troy smith and zwick, its the same freaking principle, many pro teams will say smith is not tall enough to play QB in the NFL, many teams in the NFL want a true pocket passer as Justin Zwick is, Zwick has the height and the tools to play in the NFL no doubt, NFL teams will see that IF you get him in the right system maybe behind a veteran QB he could learn a lot of things and really blossom into a really god QB as Barton and many other did at the college level, in the NFL its all just not about your physical attributes either, thats why they give the wonderlic test to the players, the NFL coaches will know Zwick is a very smart person and can run an offense, now i don't really know how smart troy smith is but is he really going to be able to run an offense as good as Zwick could in the NFL? the pro scouts could careless about how they could run one in college they want to know if they can run one in the pros. and Zwick may not have been the starter at OSU but he could have deff started at many other schools through out the nation, and I thought he played pretty darn good in the game against the eventual nation champions texas, the guy made a perfect tackle on zwick and stripped the ball, it would have happened to a lot of people and he can't help that people drop passes, Zwick will be alright and I look for him to land on some NFL team and be just fine

[CarlE]

about politics? have you seen the way teams draft or the way that colleges recruit kids? some times its not about what kind of skills you posses.

lets look at how colleges recruit a lot of kids for starters. lets say you have player A who is 6' 0 but is list as 6'1 in the program and weighs 250 then you have player B is 6'6 300,they both play on the same high school team at left tackle and both are seniors but player A starts over player B and player A has far better skills. Now I bet you 8 times out of 10 a college coach will pick Player B for a D1 scholarship over Player A, why you ask? because a college coach sees him has having the size the body to play college ball at that level and they know they can teach him, player a may be a better player then him but he just doesn't have the size, look at kirk barton for instance, at perry he was a tall skinny kid that im sure many people wouldn't have thought about him going to ohio state and playing TACKLE but ohio state seen pretty much what i just talked about and signed him to a scholarship.this same thing happened at massillon as well a few years ago


now lets go to our case with troy smith and zwick, its the same freaking principle, many pro teams will say smith is not tall enough to play QB in the NFL, many teams in the NFL want a true pocket passer as Justin Zwick is, Zwick has the height and the tools to play in the NFL no doubt, NFL teams will see that IF you get him in the right system maybe behind a veteran QB he could learn a lot of things and really blossom into a really god QB as Barton and many other did at the college level, in the NFL its all just not about your physical attributes either, thats why they give the wonderlic test to the players, the NFL coaches will know Zwick is a very smart person and can run an offense, now i don't really know how smart troy smith is but is he really going to be able to run an offense as good as Zwick could in the NFL? the pro scouts could careless about how they could run one in college they want to know if they can run one in the pros. and Zwick may not have been the starter at OSU but he could have deff started at many other schools through out the nation, and I thought he played pretty darn good in the game against the eventual nation champions texas, the guy made a perfect tackle on zwick and stripped the ball, it would have happened to a lot of people and he can't help that people drop passes, Zwick will be alright and I look for him to land on some NFL team and be just fine

Um, you started this thread talking about politics in football and then rambled on for two paragraphs and NEVER mentioned anything about politics for picking a player.

And by the way, if we go by how Zwick did in his All-Star game he'll be playing Arena ball at best. Please, PLEASE get your orange-and-black colored glasses off and see reality.

[OTC TIGER]

And by the way, if we go by how Zwick did in his All-Star game he'll be playing Arena ball at best. colored .

Wow, that means Will Proctor QB from Clemson & MVP of the Hula Bowl
should be a top 20 pick in the 2007 NFL Draft..Can't wait to get his football
card.

[TigerDL71]

Um, you started this thread talking about politics in football and then rambled on for two paragraphs and NEVER mentioned anything about politics for picking a player.

And by the way, if we go by how Zwick did in his All-Star game he'll be playing Arena ball at best. Please, PLEASE get your orange-and-black colored glasses off and see reality.

i never once said a word about politics in this thread, and I am not saying that Zwick is or will be picked ahead of troy smith, im just saying there are far more criteria for picking a QB in the NFL then just saying well he was behind troy smith at OSU so he sucks and isn't going to do crap in the NFL, superbran is pretty much saying because Smith started over Zwick smith should be a shoe in pick over zwick at QB and there is a lot more to it then just that

if you want to go off the all star game then I guess you can put Troy Smith in the same boat as Zwick then can't we??!?!?


besides is it for sure that Smith is going to play QB no matter what? or is someone going to make him a WR like they did with Robinson out of penn state?

[SuperBran]

now lets go to our case with troy smith and zwick......many pro teams will say smith is not tall enough to play QB in the NFL, many teams in the NFL want a true pocket passer as Justin Zwick is, Zwick has the height and the tools to play in the NFL no doubt...........NFL teams will see that IF you get him in the right system maybe behind a veteran QB he could learn a lot of things and really blossom........now i don't really know how smart troy smith is but is he really going to be able to run an offense as good as Zwick could in the NFL?..............the pro scouts could careless about how they could run one in college they want to know if they can run one in the pros

wow, where to begin.

first - you don't think smith is a pocket passer? maybe i watched a different season than you. if you watched smith you'd know that he went from a running qb who can throw to a throwing qb who can run. the guy actually probably didn't run as much as he should have.

second - i think that many teams are not as overly concerned with height as they once were, especially when guys like drew brees prove them wrong. also, keep in mind that ohio state had one of the tallest (if not, THE tallest) lines in the country. they averaged 6'6". if smith had no problem with those guys in front of him, he'll be okay in the nfl. more teams would take a 6'0" troy smith, who proved he has great knowledge of the game, over a 6'4" zwick who didn't have the skills to win the starting job. troy may be smaller, but he's more mobile, has just as strong of an arm (maybe even stronger, as i've read elsewhere), has better mechanics, and throws a better ball than zwick. leadership ability is another thing that smith over zwick. you could see the players react stronger to smith than zwick. he commanded their respect and they put all trust in him.

third - you say that zwick could blossom IF he was in the right system. that's a big "if," and not enough to have him skip over smith in the draft.

finally - you said that 'the pro scouts could care less about how they could run one in college they want to know if they can run one in the pros.' what makes you think that zwick could run a better pro offense than smith when he lost his job to smith?

i'm not saying that zwick has no future in the nfl. what i'm saying is that there's no way zwick will or should go before smith in the draft. smith is simply the better qb right now, and there's nothing to convince anyone that zwick could pass him up in the pro game. the only thing zwick has on smith it size, and that's not enough.

[SuperBran]

i never once said a word about politics in this thread, and I am not saying that Zwick is or will be picked ahead of troy smith, im just saying there are far more criteria for picking a QB in the NFL then just saying well he was behind troy smith at OSU so he sucks and isn't going to do crap in the NFL, superbran is pretty much saying because Smith started over Zwick smith should be a shoe in pick over zwick at QB and there is a lot more to it then just that


besides is it for sure that Smith is going to play QB no matter what? or is someone going to make him a WR like they did with Robinson out of penn state?

okay, since smith's not a lock to be picked over zwick, i'll tell you what......i'll stop posting on here if zwick is picked over smith. if not, then you'll stop posting. deal?

you misinterpret my argument. i'm not saying that zwick sucks or that smith should be taken first SOLELY b/c he started over zwick. smith is simply the better qb. if anyone can't see that they have their orange colored glasses on.

better arm = debatable
better passes = smith
better leadership = smith
better mobility = smith
better size = zwick
experience = smith

looks like a slam dunk to me.

[CarlE]

about politics?


Um yes you did.

[longtimefirsttime]

I agree with this post by a Buckeyes blogger:

"I've listened with amusement the last few days as Troy Smith has told anyone and everyone that he wants to get drafted by the Cleveland Browns.
The national media has interpreted that to mean that he wants his hometown team to draft him with its first pick, either third or fourth overall depending on a coin flip with Tampa Bay.
Are you kidding me??? Smith, according to all the analysts, has dropped to the third or fourth round, not the third or fourth pick. For the Browns to take the height-challenged Heisman winner with their first pick would smack of Bill Belichick when he stupidly took underachieving OSU linebacker Craig Powell -- who was built like a safety, by the way -- with a No. 1 pick.
If Smith is still around in the third or fourth round, I would have no problem with the Browns taking him then. Or defensive tackle Quinn Pitcock either.
But, really, the last thing Cleveland needs right now is another young quarterback on a dysfunctional offense with a bad line and a mundane running game. I'd be more inclined to take a lineman, either offensive or defensive with the No. 1 pick, as long as it's not Michigan's Alan Branch. (Where was he when Pittman and Wells ran right up the gut on their breakaway TDs?)
Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson would be tough to pass up with that first pick, although his history of injuries scares me a little bit.
But Troy Smith? Third round or lower, fine. First pick? You'd have to be out of your flippin' mind!"

[OTC TIGER]

On a side note ..drafting Ted Ginn before # 20 would be a reach IMO

[SuperBran]

I agree with this post by a Buckeyes blogger:

"I've listened with amusement the last few days as Troy Smith has told anyone and everyone that he wants to get drafted by the Cleveland Browns.
The national media has interpreted that to mean that he wants his hometown team to draft him with its first pick, either third or fourth overall depending on a coin flip with Tampa Bay.
Are you kidding me??? Smith, according to all the analysts, has dropped to the third or fourth round, not the third or fourth pick. For the Browns to take the height-challenged Heisman winner with their first pick would smack of Bill Belichick when he stupidly took underachieving OSU linebacker Craig Powell -- who was built like a safety, by the way -- with a No. 1 pick.
If Smith is still around in the third or fourth round, I would have no problem with the Browns taking him then. Or defensive tackle Quinn Pitcock either.
But, really, the last thing Cleveland needs right now is another young quarterback on a dysfunctional offense with a bad line and a mundane running game. I'd be more inclined to take a lineman, either offensive or defensive with the No. 1 pick, as long as it's not Michigan's Alan Branch. (Where was he when Pittman and Wells ran right up the gut on their breakaway TDs?)
Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson would be tough to pass up with that first pick, although his history of injuries scares me a little bit.
But Troy Smith? Third round or lower, fine. First pick? You'd have to be out of your flippin' mind!"

:iagree:

[MTown]

I agree with this post by a Buckeyes blogger:

"I've listened with amusement the last few days as Troy Smith has told anyone and everyone that he wants to get drafted by the Cleveland Browns.
The national media has interpreted that to mean that he wants his hometown team to draft him with its first pick, either third or fourth overall depending on a coin flip with Tampa Bay.
Are you kidding me??? Smith, according to all the analysts, has dropped to the third or fourth round, not the third or fourth pick. For the Browns to take the height-challenged Heisman winner with their first pick would smack of Bill Belichick when he stupidly took underachieving OSU linebacker Craig Powell -- who was built like a safety, by the way -- with a No. 1 pick.
If Smith is still around in the third or fourth round, I would have no problem with the Browns taking him then. Or defensive tackle Quinn Pitcock either.
But, really, the last thing Cleveland needs right now is another young quarterback on a dysfunctional offense with a bad line and a mundane running game. I'd be more inclined to take a lineman, either offensive or defensive with the No. 1 pick, as long as it's not Michigan's Alan Branch. (Where was he when Pittman and Wells ran right up the gut on their breakaway TDs?)
Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson would be tough to pass up with that first pick, although his history of injuries scares me a little bit.
But Troy Smith? Third round or lower, fine. First pick? You'd have to be out of your flippin' mind!"

This post about sums it up.

As for Zwick...he will be a project if he makes it on an NFL team solely based on his measureables. There is not enough to judge him on from his playing time at Ohio State. Whether he gets drafted late or signs as a free agent, he's going to have to compete for a roster spot and will be a long shot to start in the NFL at any point.

[TigerDL71]

Um yes you did.

in my post i was going off something superbran said about politics the only reason why zwick would be drafted over smith, then after that I gave reasons why Zwick MIGHT be taken before Smith other then JUST politics, if i started off this thread based on politics id like to see it


besides this about smith and Zwick, if the browns DON'T pick either Joe Thomas or Alan Branch in the first round I will be highly dissappointed and think thats a terrible pick for the browns, im not a browns fan but just watching them play its obvious they need linemen asap., with the line they have now you could freaking have peyton manning at QB and it wouldn't make that much difference


all i have been trying to say in this thread is that just because someone starts over someone else doesn't mean that they are going to be picked before them at any level, more then likely yeah they will but it doesn't always mean that

[SuperBran]

all i have been trying to say in this thread is that just because someone starts over someone else doesn't mean that they are going to be picked before them at any level, more then likely yeah they will but it doesn't always mean that

has there ever been a situation where a starting college qb has been picked after their backup? that would be a good trivia question.

[TigerDL71]

that would actually be a very good trivia question lol....we need the schwab from ESPN to answer that, i wonder if any players back up not just a QB has been picked over him :scratchchin:

[monte81]

TigerDL71--- Peyton Manning?????? He could throw for 20 td's and 3500 yards with the Browns line right now! The line needs improvement but you cannot throw PM in there as an example!!! I hope they get some players that can play instead of run their mouthes all seeason producing little or nothing. They need Db's, linebackers, linemen, a RBDroughns is OK but you see Denver let him go pretty easy), and a QB that can make sound decisions because Frye is a back up!!

MTown--They should draft Adrian Peterson--his injuries were bull@hit injuries that all players get and his just happened back to back--hamstring and coller bone but know "career questionable" injuries that would make a differance in draft stock or productivity--he is the best player in the draft.

Troy Smith is a very smart and capaple QB but I would not take him with a 1st round selection--- Russell from LSU is the best QB but he is still abit raw at the position and will also take time to develop.

Zwick--- free agent signee or 2nd day!! I hope the kid gets a shot!!! I still wish hwe was not so loyal to OSU because I would have loved to see him transfer- he was better than 75% of the QB's starting DI this past season!!!

[TigerDL71]

TigerDL71--- Peyton Manning?????? He could throw for 20 td's and 3500 yards with the Browns line right now! The line needs improvement but you cannot throw PM in there as an example!!! I hope they get some players that can play instead of run their mouthes all seeason producing little or nothing. They need Db's, linebackers, linemen, a RBDroughns is OK but you see Denver let him go pretty easy), and a QB that can make sound decisions because Frye is a back up!!

MTown--They should draft Adrian Peterson--his injuries were bull@hit injuries that all players get and his just happened back to back--hamstring and coller bone but know "career questionable" injuries that would make a differance in draft stock or productivity--he is the best player in the draft.

Troy Smith is a very smart and capaple QB but I would not take him with a 1st round selection--- Russell from LSU is the best QB but he is still abit raw at the position and will also take time to develop.

Zwick--- free agent signee or 2nd day!! I hope the kid gets a shot!!! I still wish hwe was not so loyal to OSU because I would have loved to see him transfer- he was better than 75% of the QB's starting DI this past season!!!



no way manning would do that good, he wouldn't have the time to get rid of the football, give any QB in the NFL time and he will be great

[monte81]

no way manning would do that good, he wouldn't have the time to get rid of the football, give any QB in the NFL time and he will be great

Manning would of won 9 games for Cleveland this season. His quick release gives him chances--Indy's line is not great but his timing and WR's are!!! ANY Qb cannot get it done with time in the NFL--you have great QB's, good, fair, and bad--even in the NFL!!!!

[longtimefirsttime]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/insider/columns/story?id=2748081&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/insider/columns/story?id=2748081

[austinsm11]

Let's just hope someone like Detroit doesn't convince us they want Peterson and gets the Browns to swap 1st round picks and give up our 2nd round again.

[longtimefirsttime]

The Dolphins are reportedly interested in Brady Quinn.
http://nfl.aolsportsblog.com/2007/02/13/the-dolphins-are-looking-at-brady-quinn/

[longtimefirsttime]

A review of the Browns needs:
http://nfl.aolsportsblog.com/2007/02/13/quarterback-not-the-only-off-season-need-for-the-browns/

[CarlE]

Who wants to bet a beer at the Alibi on the coin flip between the Browns and the Bucs before the draft? If I have a taker, it will be my first bet in YEARS, not counting those Super Bowl boards you get on with the numbers.

[monte81]

Who wants to bet a beer at the Alibi on the coin flip between the Browns and the Bucs before the draft? If I have a taker, it will be my first bet in YEARS, not counting those Super Bowl boards you get on with the numbers.

I'll take the bet CarlE---I want to finally meet you in person anyway. I have lost my last 3 bets so I am due for a victory--- make it the 1st 3 rounds to buy for the loser!!

[CarlE]

I'll take the bet CarlE---I want to finally meet you in person anyway. I have lost my last 3 bets so I am due for a victory--- make it the 1st 3 rounds to buy for the loser!!

I'm IN, Brother Monte81!!!

[monte81]

I'm IN, Brother Monte81!!!

Its official--you will have to let me know when you will in "da milk" as the kids call Massillon so I can be there. Football season I will be there weekly if not in Toledo---thats my new collegiate school these days!!

[CarlE]

Oh I'll be there WAY before football season. I have to come up this summer and golf with LTFT. Nothing more entertaining.....well except later that evening when he jumps on the mechanical bull, right LTFT??

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

monte81,

I met CarlE in person two years ago and let me tell you something: he is the brightest person anyone can ever come across. He's in the top 5 of Massillon people I have come across the last three years.

[CarlE]

monte81,

I met CarlE in person two years ago and let me tell you something: he is the brightest person anyone can ever come across. He's in the top 5 of Massillon people I have come across the last three years.

Now who said Keno wasn't the smartest person we knew!! Thanks for the compliment Sultan of Swat.

[Al.]

Now who said Keno wasn't the smartest person we knew!! Thanks for the compliment Sultan of Swat.

I bet the other four Massillon people that he has met would also agree that you're in the top five. :laughing:

[CarlE]

I bet the other four Massillon people that he has met would also agree that you're in the top five. :laughing:

Good one Al. Way to level-set the compliment, brother.

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

CarlE,

I remember your presence all the time. And I haven't forgotten the advice you gave me about dealing with harsh criticism from outsiders. It has really helped me greatly these last several years. I used to be the kind of person who felt they had to always respond to such but now I don't usually pay attention to negative comments about me or I just laugh at them :laughing: .

Anyway...are you getting your championship little league baseball team ready to defend their title???

[CarlE]

CarlE,

Anyway...are you getting your championship little league baseball team ready to defend their title???

We sure are. We've had four practices already and it looks like a strong, strong team. We had three guys park one last night just doing soft toss from home plate. We are VERY encouraged.

[longtimefirsttime]

CarlE-Just don't have them peak at the wrong time. :wink:

[longtimefirsttime]

Oh I'll be there WAY before football season. I have to come up this summer and golf with LTFT. Nothing more entertaining.....well except later that evening when he jumps on the mechanical bull, right LTFT??

You know it.

[CarlE]

CarlE-Just don't have them peak at the wrong time. :wink:

Well, they were 29-0 last year so I'm not sure when they peak or if they just play steady all year long!!

[crackerman]

Dear Cleveland Browns,

Please draft either Troy Smith or Ted Ginn Jr.

Yours truly,
Pittsburgh Steelers organization and fans

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

CarlE,

Your team was just fundamentally sound. And there is no substitute for that.

P.S. Crackerman...don't look for Smith or Ginn to go to Cleveland anytime soon.

[longtimefirsttime]

Height could cause Smith to drop in draft:
http://nfl.aolsportsblog.com/2007/02/18/height-could-cause-smith-leak-to-drop-in-draft/

[longtimefirsttime]

The Browns won the coin flip and will pick third ahead of Tampa Bay.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/news/story?id=2776362

Carl E owes me a beverage!

[monte81]

The Browns won the coin flip and will pick third ahead of Tampa Bay.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/news/story?id=2776362

Carl E owes me a beverage!

CarlE owes me a few rounds at the Alibi as well!!

[longtimefirsttime]

Troy Smith answers the "height question" at the combine.
http://nfl.aolsportsblog.com/2007/02/23/troy-smith-stuck-in-groundhog-day-answers-questions-about-he/

[longtimefirsttime]

An analysis of Smith and the other two top draft QB's:
http://thevineofhob.newsvine.com/_news/2007/02/25/586089-the-nfl-draft-three-quarterbacks?last=1172439351#last_1

[monte81]

Watching the combine this weekend I have come to the following conclusions:

1. Adrian Peterson ran a 4.38 40 yard dash and a 38 and a half vertical jump--the Browns have the 2007 version of Jim Brown maybe avalaible at #3--DRAFT THE GUY!!
2. Gonzaloz is NO WAY faster than Ted Ginn Jr. after posting a 4.45 at the combine but ran exceptional routes in the drills and had a 4.01 pro shuttle. He's a player.
3. Joe Thomas is a MONSTER!!!
4. Troy Smith plays better than he looks but his last game and combine puts him maybe 4th round in my opinion 3rd if interviews well but showed incredible arm strength.
5. Calvin Johnson ran a 4.37 40 yard dash with another players shoes!!!! He did not plan to run and participate but decided to run because scouts started to question is speed??? I guess they wont say nothing again.
6. Antonio Pittman has improved his status with a 4.40 40 yard dash time. I am hoping this kid makes it!!

[longtimefirsttime]

Peter King lists the tough decision facing the Browns and an odd story about the coin flip with the Bucs:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/02/26/indy/1.html

[SuperBran]

Watching the combine this weekend I have come to the following conclusions:

1. Adrian Peterson ran a 4.38 40 yard dash and a 38 and a half vertical jump--the Browns have the 2007 version of Jim Brown maybe avalaible at #3--DRAFT THE GUY!!
2. Gonzaloz is NO WAY faster than Ted Ginn Jr. after posting a 4.45 at the combine but ran exceptional routes in the drills and had a 4.01 pro shuttle. He's a player.
3. Joe Thomas is a MONSTER!!!


1. peterson better be big, strong, and fast, b/c he'll definitely have no line to help out. LOL.

2. it's absolutely possible that gonzalez is faster than ginn....but at shorter distances. i've heard he's run faster 40's than ginn, but that ginn has that extra gear that enables him to hit a higher top speed. it's like comparing ben johnson (before he was taking steroids) and carl lewis. johnson accelerated faster, but lewis kicked it in the last 50 meters.

3. i watched the combine and saw thomas for the first time w/o pads. i was shocked at how lean he was, for a guy his size. i thought he might carry around a lot of fat, but he doesn't have too much fat on him. i think he could easily carry 20 more pounds on his frame w/o looking bulky.

[monte81]

A. Peterson is a stud and the Browns will use 2nd round on to pick up linemen!

Gonzo is not even faster than Pittman in the 40 so Gonzo the fastest Buckeye was mis information---maybe the fastest that day! Ginn has world class track speed and was clocked at a a sub 4.3 last year. Gonzo is heck of a football player and will make it in the NFL because he trains, eats, and sleeps football. Great route runners last a long long time---look at Keyshawn Johnson--slowest WR in the league but always has more 3rd conversions and receptions than 90% of the NFL.

Ginn is a top 10 pick but will only shine on special teams the 1st 2 seasons or so until he perfects some minor things in route running.

Joe Thomas could gain a few pounds but looks like a complete football player--the footwork was incredible for his size---reminds me of a young Boseli.

[SuperBran]

i'd like to see cleveland get schaub from atlanta. i thought the guy was great coming out of college, and think he could be a very solid qb. i hate to see him waste his talent on the bench in atlanta.

[MTown]

Schaub is a restricted free agent so it will be tough to get him. Plus, with a new coach in Atlanta, I would think they'll want to hang on to him as an insurance policy to Michael Vick.

I think Peterson is the guy at #3. It looks like the Lions will take Thomas at #2. I think Thomas is having a bit of a tough time because of Robert Gallery and how he hasn't lived up to his billing. I would not be unhappy if the Browns took him over Peterson. He looks impressive.

If the Browns take Brady Quinn, I'm throwing in the towel.

[monte81]

Schaub is a restricted free agent so it will be tough to get him. Plus, with a new coach in Atlanta, I would think they'll want to hang on to him as an insurance policy to Michael Vick.

I think Peterson is the guy at #3. It looks like the Lions will take Thomas at #2. I think Thomas is having a bit of a tough time because of Robert Gallery and how he hasn't lived up to his billing. I would not be unhappy if the Browns took him over Peterson. He looks impressive.

If the Browns take Brady Quinn, I'm throwing in the towel.

Mtown--if the Browns take B. Quinn they will throwing in the towel and Romeo will looking for employment. Thomas or Peterson are the safe picks.

They do need a QB and you are right Atlanta will not let him go---but how long will he be willing to sit behind Vick?? Atlanta will play Vick because of the salary and if the Browns come at Schaub with a nice free agent deal it could be possible to land him.

[MTown]

No doubt the Browns want him...but I think Atlanta will match any offer.

[Kamd50]

Speaking on the subject of Troy Smith:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=570173

[TigerDL71]

on ESPN this morning they were talking about what HUGE dissappointment Troy Smith was at the combine and how much pressure he has put on himself during the Ohio State pro day

[MTown]

I saw that too. I guess he declined to run the 40 at the combine and wants to do it at OSU pro-day instead and that was looked at negatively by the scouts. I honestly think people are looking for reasons to drop him down the draft board.

[SuperBran]

I saw that too. I guess he declined to run the 40 at the combine and wants to do it at OSU pro-day instead and that was looked at negatively by the scouts. I honestly think people are looking for reasons to drop him down the draft board.

smith admitted that he wasn't in shape b/c of the "banquet circuit," although that's no excuse. afterall, this is going to be his future so he should be in shape.

i wonder if those same scouts will say the same thing about russell and quinn, since they didn't do much at the combine either. i know that smith has more to prove, in their minds, but he's not the first to pass on the combine.

[ChronicTiger]

on ESPN this morning they were talking about what HUGE dissappointment Troy Smith was at the combine and how much pressure he has put on himself during the Ohio State pro day

Why run the 40 when your a fat slob? Not in shape at the combine, Nice work Troy!

:eek2:

[SuperBran]

Why run the 40 when your a fat slob? Not in shape at the combine, Nice work Troy!

:eek2:


he also looked a little overweight for the bcs game.

[longtimefirsttime]

Speaking on the subject of Troy Smith:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=570173

"Not only that but Smith scored 15 in his first shot at the Wonderlic intelligence test, a score so low for his position that almost every team would be concerned."

On the Rizzo show today they said Dan Marino scored a 14 and Rookie of the Year Vince Young scored a six. It does not automatically mean success (or lack thereof) in the NFL.

[SuperBran]

"Not only that but Smith scored 15 in his first shot at the Wonderlic intelligence test, a score so low for his position that almost every team would be concerned."

On the Rizzo show today they said Dan Marino scored a 14 and Rookie of the Year Vince Young scored a six. It does not automatically mean success (or lack thereof) in the NFL.

i think joey harrington scored a 27, so that shows that there's no correlation.

[Al.]

Young's Wonderlic mishap helped us learn

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6487846

[longtimefirsttime]

Here are some more sample questions.
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html
http://www.efplfp.stealingisgood.com/wpt.html

Of course I'd expect everyone here to say they scored 100%. :wink:

More about the Wonderlic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_Test

[Al.]

Well, I’m a better test taker than an athlete. :jestera:

[obie7661]

Pro day at Ohio State to be crucial for Smith

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/sports/colleges/16858233.htm

[longtimefirsttime]

I stand by Thomas being the best pick for the Browns. A poor OL has been a consistent weakness. Thomas and Steinbach would be a huge upgrade. Peterson has huge potential. But will a team that has been snakebitten by injuries risk taking a guy who has been injury prone?

[longtimefirsttime]

The Lions and Charlie Weis are trying to sway the Browns to take Quinn.
http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/04/14/pft-browns-want-brady-quinn-bad/

[austinsm11]

Why would anyone believe the Lions want Quinn when they can draft yet another receiver?


Honestly I hope we trade down. Then we could take Andy in the 2nd/3rd round. Then with the first pick maybe we take AP (although if we do take him he will probably get injured).

[obie7661]

Troy Smith doesn't listen to naysayers

http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/content/sports/stories/2007/04/15/smith15.ART_ART_04-15-07_E6_MT6CUFN.html

[longtimefirsttime]

Troy will have a chance soon enough to show what he has at the highest level.

[longtimefirsttime]

Here's a breakdown of the needs of the teams in the AFC North.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6699778

[longtimefirsttime]

Reported in SI:

"When it comes to coaches and the NFL draft, all quotes should be taken with a grain of salt. But Vikings coach Brad Childress said nothing Thursday to dispel speculation that the team could take Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson with the seventh overall selection."
St. Paul Pioneer Press



"If the Rams' infatuation with Ohio State receiver Ted Ginn Jr. is a smokescreen, it's an elaborate one. Rams coach Scott Linehan announced Thursday that Ginn would arrive in St. Louis late Thursday night and would meet with Rams doctors and coaches today. This comes on the heels of the Rams' chartering a small jet and sending at least five coaches and team officials to watch Ginn work out April 11 at Ohio State. "
St. Louis Post-Dispatch

[monte81]

Reported in SI:

"When it comes to coaches and the NFL draft, all quotes should be taken with a grain of salt. But Vikings coach Brad Childress said nothing Thursday to dispel speculation that the team could take Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson with the seventh overall selection."
St. Paul Pioneer Press



"If the Rams' infatuation with Ohio State receiver Ted Ginn Jr. is a smokescreen, it's an elaborate one. Rams coach Scott Linehan announced Thursday that Ginn would arrive in St. Louis late Thursday night and would meet with Rams doctors and coaches today. This comes on the heels of the Rams' chartering a small jet and sending at least five coaches and team officials to watch Ginn work out April 11 at Ohio State. "
St. Louis Post-Dispatch


4.35 40 yard dash time at workout will turn some heads quickly. Ginn will be a top 10 pick because his potential to make a differance on special teams right away!