Buckeyes receiver says college athletes exploited

[obie7661]

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/state/16377261.htm

[TigerNick]

That may be all true BUT, What these kids don't mention is their FREE Scholarship to College. At Ohio State it cost around I'd say 10 to 12 (estimated) thousand dollars per year to attend. Maybe these athletes don't think of that, But, that is their pay. So they are being paid.

[crackerman]

this is true without a doubt, dont even get me started on this one.

[CarlE]

That may be all true BUT, What these kids don't mention is their FREE Scholarship to College. At Ohio State it cost around I'd say 10 to 12 (estimated) thousand dollars per year to attend. Maybe these athletes don't think of that, But, that is their pay. So they are being paid.


Free, schmee. These colleges make ZILLIONS off these kids' jersey numbers being sold in stores. The coaches??? Do NOT get me started. Radio shows. TV shows. Sports emblems on clothes. Shoes. TigerNick you are as naieve' as can be. PLEASE let me do business with you ANYTIME.

[monte81]

When on a football scholarship a student can only work in the summer and little assistance is given beyond the education. CarlE--- the universities make crazy dollars off these students and they should collectively get a percentage stipened every semester. Just enough to enjoy college life-- they sell 100,000 tickets to the shoe every week and will collect major money after the championship game throughout the Big Ten so share the wealth-- but they will spend $300,000 or more on stadium upgrades while some players families cannot afford to go to the games!!

Four ways college student/athletes get money---without agents or big boosters
1.Gambling--poker, tonk, etc,...
2. Selling Books-- they are now recording and demanding schedules to return books
3. Parents(alot of students parents are living check to check)
4. Summer Employment( you see what happened in Oklahoma)

It has to be a way to to have a win/win for the universities and athletes!!

Crackerman--- I understand also what you are saying about the free education--I would not have a chance at college without football!

[crackerman]

i meant this is true about the players being exploited, not the free education...Im on gonzo's side. These kids should be paid. like i said, I dont want to get started

[monte81]

i meant this is true about the players being exploited, not the free education...Im on gonzo's side. These kids should be paid. like i said, I dont want to get started

My fault--misunderstood-- that's from all those football brain injuries I suffered playing linebacker!! I just try to stay stable long enough to put in my days work!!!!!!:drinkem:

[longtimefirsttime]

There's no doubt the colleges and universities make money on the names of their players. But how do you create a payment system without having widespread corruption (not that I'm blind enough to think corruption doesn't exist now)?

[TigerCoach]

Don't get me started on the NCAA either. They are a dictatorship who cares nothing about the student-athlete. Just one example.....Scholarship athletes are not allowed to keep their books, they must be turned in at the end of each semester. Now, if your in a specific degree program (I was in engineering), those books could be valuable to you once you start a career. Same can be said for accounting, pre-med, etc...

Thanks for upsetting me this morning!:down:

[monte81]

There's no doubt the colleges and universities make money on the names of their players. But how do you create a payment system without having widespread corruption (not that I'm blind enough to think corruption doesn't exist now)?

Pay the student/athletes a stipend check just look Pell Grants but at the end of each semester with the criteria that ALL classes are completed and credits are passing NCAA standards!! The amounts would be broken down by revenue generated by the University and divided equally between all student/athletes on scholarship. Just a thought!!!

[MTown]

The problem you run into is that the payment system wouldn't be fair from school to school. Football players at Ohio State would obviously get more than kids from Akron. Then you have to consider Football players at Ohio State versus Tennis players at Ohio State. How do you make it fair for all?

NCAA doesn't exist JUST for football but for all sports. I know all the arguments for and against paying players, and if you could create a system that would be fair to all then I would be for it.

[ChronicTiger]

What a joke. These kids dont deserve anything. Whats next high school players should get paid?

[monte81]

The problem you run into is that the payment system wouldn't be fair from school to school. Football players at Ohio State would obviously get more than kids from Akron. Then you have to consider Football players at Ohio State versus Tennis players at Ohio State. How do you make it fair for all?

NCAA doesn't exist JUST for football but for all sports. I know all the arguments for and against paying players, and if you could create a system that would be fair to all then I would be for it.

I say even number of $$$ for all sports and equal through conferences so each conference players could recieve the same amount of money each semester. That way a Northwestestern wrestler, a OSU soccar player, a Michigan football player, and a Purdue female athlete would all get the same!!!I dont know thats why it is the way it is now because they cant come to an agreement. But it is a unfair system!!!

[monte81]

Don't get me started on the NCAA either. They are a dictatorship who cares nothing about the student-athlete. Just one example.....Scholarship athletes are not allowed to keep their books, they must be turned in at the end of each semester. Now, if your in a specific degree program (I was in engineering), those books could be valuable to you once you start a career. Same can be said for accounting, pre-med, etc...

Thanks for upsetting me this morning!:down:


Thats why when we were in college book thefts were the ticket to get extra money--- athletes probably were the #1 crooks for stealing books on campus!!!

[CarlE]

What a joke. These kids dont deserve anything. Whats next high school players should get paid?

You are kidding, right? SURELY you don't think the Gestapo NCAA is not exploiting them. The powers that be in the NCAA are freaking criminals in my book.

[Red50Go]

I dont think they should get paid, per say. They get free tuition and alot of leeway in other areas already. But for the kid who does have trouble making ends meet and cant work because of the schedule demands I do think they need to set up some type of aid package based on need that you can apply for.

But to pay them all and all equally just to pay them would be a huge mistake, imo. They are there for school - and that message is getting lost enough already.

[crackerman]

[QUOTE=Red50Go;32073]and alot of leeway in other areas already. QUOTE]

What does this mean exactly?

[TIGER27]

But, if they were paid you could also see many more kids forgoing the NFL draft and choosing to stay and play their senior or junior seasons if they had possibly been red shirted, thus leading to a higher graduation rate. If you don't believe this is a problem look into the Miami Hurricanes program.

[ChronicTiger]

You are kidding, right? SURELY you don't think the Gestapo NCAA is not exploiting them. The powers that be in the NCAA are freaking criminals in my book.

I thought the sole reason some of the kids go to universities like O$U is to be exploited..................

:thumbsup:

[ChronicTiger]

But, if they were paid you could also see many more kids forgoing the NFL draft and choosing to stay and play their senior or junior seasons if they had possibly been red shirted, thus leading to a higher graduation rate. If you don't believe this is a problem look into the Miami Hurricanes program.


hahahaha.......forget the millions, the shoe contract, et al. Im staying for that $100 a week stipend and to get my degree......

Good one TIGER27!

[CarlE]

hahahaha.......forget the millions, the shoe contract, et al. Im staying for that $100 a week stipend and to get my degree......

Good one TIGER27!

THAT was funny Chronic my friend. VERY funny.

[TigerDL71]

players do get money now from the university but not enough to really get them anywhere, for instance i know every scholarship player was given around 1000 dollars to find a one way plane ticket out of any airport to get out to Arizona for the BCS game, and i do know that some players flying out of cleveland got a first class ticket for 300 so they got to pocket 700 but that really isn't enough to get that person anywhere, considering that they don't get that type of money every week, its not fair for college athletes at all, they should get some kind of money each week

[TigerCoach]

and alot of leeway in other areas already.

I know what it means, Crackerman. It means you have leeway to:

1) either get up at 5:30 am for 6:00 am workouts 5 days a week or do it before 2 1/2 hours of practice.
2) either go to the library to do your school work or to the study table, all after practicing and getting treatments and watching films till 7 or 8 o'clock at night Monday through Friday.
3) Eat your lunches and dinner at the training table on holidays versus going home to be with your family.
4) get back in your dorm before curfew or run 5 miles at 5:00 am the next day, before workouts.
5) participate in spring practice while your non-playing friends are chugging beer and chasing girls at keg parties.
6) read in the papers how your coach is making $2 million a year while you don't have enough money to take a girl out on a nice date.

I can go on and on, people, but give me a break. Athletes at major colleges are the most exploited individuals EVER! Playing major college sports to most of you is glamorous, exciting, sexy, etc...when you see it. The problem is, you only see about 10% of it. College football is a 12 month sport, 5-6 days a week. Throw on top of that commitment your responsibility to maintain your school work and graduate, and you have a task that 90% of college students could not achieve. A $80,000 scholarship deal is a drop in the bucket to what these athletes generate and have to go through.

[ChronicTiger]

Thats why when we were in college book thefts were the ticket to get extra money--- athletes probably were the #1 crooks for stealing books on campus!!!

good stuff monte! I had a degenerate friend who never had any money. On friday he would say he was going to the bank machine to get money to go out. This guy was going around campus stealing books for cash......

[ChronicTiger]

I know what it means, Crackerman. It means you have leeway to:

1) either get up at 5:30 am for 6:00 am workouts 5 days a week or do it before 2 1/2 hours of practice.
2) either go to the library to do your school work or to the study table, all after practicing and getting treatments and watching films till 7 or 8 o'clock at night Monday through Friday.
3) Eat your lunches and dinner at the training table on holidays versus going home to be with your family.
4) get back in your dorm before curfew or run 5 miles at 5:00 am the next day, before workouts.
5) participate in spring practice while your non-playing friends are chugging beer and chasing girls at keg parties.
6) read in the papers how your coach is making $2 million a year while you don't have enough money to take a girl out on a nice date.

I can go on and on, people, but give me a break. Athletes at major colleges are the most exploited individuals EVER! Playing major college sports to most of you is glamorous, exciting, sexy, etc...when you see it. The problem is, you only see about 10% of it. College football is a 12 month sport, 5-6 days a week. Throw on top of that commitment your responsibility to maintain your school work and graduate, and you have a task that 90% of college students could not achieve. A $80,000 scholarship deal is a drop in the bucket to what these athletes generate and have to go through.

7) Have the hot chick that is "tutoring" you take you out to dinner, then do your homework for you while your at a banquet having c-notes stuffed in your armani.

[monte81]

I know what it means, Crackerman. It means you have leeway to:

1) either get up at 5:30 am for 6:00 am workouts 5 days a week or do it before 2 1/2 hours of practice.
2) either go to the library to do your school work or to the study table, all after practicing and getting treatments and watching films till 7 or 8 o'clock at night Monday through Friday.
3) Eat your lunches and dinner at the training table on holidays versus going home to be with your family.
4) get back in your dorm before curfew or run 5 miles at 5:00 am the next day, before workouts.
5) participate in spring practice while your non-playing friends are chugging beer and chasing girls at keg parties.
6) read in the papers how your coach is making $2 million a year while you don't have enough money to take a girl out on a nice date.

I can go on and on, people, but give me a break. Athletes at major colleges are the most exploited individuals EVER! Playing major college sports to most of you is glamorous, exciting, sexy, etc...when you see it. The problem is, you only see about 10% of it. College football is a 12 month sport, 5-6 days a week. Throw on top of that commitment your responsibility to maintain your school work and graduate, and you have a task that 90% of college students could not achieve. A $80,000 scholarship deal is a drop in the bucket to what these athletes generate and have to go through.

TC,
Dont forget that if you miss training table because of class or any reason--you starve until the next day and some DI AA schools dont have that at all!!

It aint easy to walk around campus everyday being the "man" but cannot buy a soda or bag of chips!!!

[jstafford]

Free, schmee. These colleges make ZILLIONS off these kids' jersey numbers being sold in stores. The coaches??? Do NOT get me started. Radio shows. TV shows. Sports emblems on clothes. Shoes. TigerNick you are as naieve' as can be. PLEASE let me do business with you ANYTIME. I live / work in Colombus and one of my co-workers purchased an "Authentic" Ted Ginn jersey ( at the Ohio State Buckeyes team shop) for 200 dollars.

[monte81]

I live / work in Colombus and one of my co-workers purchased an "Authentic" Ted Ginn jersey ( at the Ohio State Buckeyes team shop) for 200 dollars.


I have seen several Smith and Ginn authentics-- $200 a jersey and the players cant buy a combo meal without speculation of booster tampering--- I might take my chances at the NFL if I was in their shoes!!!!

[crackerman]

obviously Chronic Tiger wasnt an athlete, or didnt play ball in college and doesnt understand the hardships that players face. I base this on his rude, ignorant, and random comments

[CarlE]

obviously Chronic Tiger wasnt an athlete, or didnt play ball in college and doesnt understand the hardships that players face. I base this on his rude, ignorant, and random comments

I was just about to post the same thing, Cracka. This guy probably never saw a college campus in his life, much less have been an athlete. No way he would post stuff like this.

[ChronicTiger]

I was just about to post the same thing, Cracka. This guy probably never saw a college campus in his life.

Probably the most ignorant statement ever posted on this site.

[ChronicTiger]

obviously Chronic Tiger wasnt an athlete, or didnt play ball in college and doesnt understand the hardships that players face. I base this on his rude, ignorant, and random comments

Please. Your making a bold statement by claiming that playing college athletics and being a student is difficult and requires sacrifice. What an original thought. Have you ever considered that being a student and working a couple lame ass low paying jobs to make ends meet may be just as time consuming and be just as much as a "hardship" as being an athlete?

:puke:

[crackerman]

you just said it all right there...you have no clue what you are talking about and you shouldnt even post on this topic any more because your are losing ANY respect you had on this site.

[TigerCoach]

Please. Your making a bold statement by claiming that playing college athletics and being a student is difficult and requires sacrifice. What an original thought. Have you ever considered that being a student and working a couple lame ass low paying jobs to make ends meet may be just as time consuming and be just as much as a "hardship" as being an athlete?

:puke:

Your actually trying to compare playing major college athletics and going to school with dipping french fries in the grease until the bell goes off? You really need to back off, Chronic, there are many guys on here who have experienced it and KNOW BETTER.

[SuperBran]

i think there are two sides to this argument, and each side doesn't understand the other side quite as much as they think they do.

on one side you have those who were involved in athletics in college and have no idea what it's like to have a job or two while attending school. on the other side you have those who weren't involved in athletics in college and have no idea what it's like to play a sport while going to school.

while i agree that life for an athlete is difficult, it is also just as difficult to work your way through college. anyone who thinks differently is foolish. i knew many people who would go to class then work up to 8 hours on top of that....doing everything they can just to be able to attend college. they'd then have to struggle endlessly to find time to study.

and TC, it's not as simple as comparing playing a major college sport to "dipping french fries in the grease until the bell goes off." if you think it's that simple then you have no clue what you're talking about. that's a slap in the face to all those people who have busted their butts working as hard as they could to keep their head above the water.

would it be fair or accurate to say that a college football player just runs around the field playing a kid's game and therefore has it easy? of course not.

[ChronicTiger]

Your guys are talking about getting an education right? Some do it by playing sports others do it by working a real job. As much as you would like to argue otherwise there is not much difference from the standpoint of balancing your chosen "job" whether it be athletics or dipping fries and getting your school work done. What is so different? Some kid is dipping fries for 8 hours and an athlete spends 5 hours doing his thing? You dont think there are normal students that cant afford to go home for the holidays?
You dont think there is some possibility that the need for money and a job prevents a normal student from doing the things they want to do? Open your eyes people, college is tough for everyone.

:coolgleam:

[ChronicTiger]

i think there are two sides to this argument, and each side doesn't understand the other side quite as much as they think they do.

on one side you have those who were involved in athletics in college and have no idea what it's like to have a job or two while attending school. on the other side you have those who weren't involved in athletics in college and have no idea what it's like to play a sport while going to school.

while i agree that life for an athlete is difficult, it is also just as difficult to work your way through college. anyone who thinks differently is foolish. i knew many people who would go to class then work up to 8 hours on top of that....doing everything they can just to be able to attend college. they'd then have to struggle endlessly to find time to study.

and TC, it's not as simple as comparing playing a major college sport to "dipping french fries in the grease until the bell goes off." if you think it's that simple then you have no clue what you're talking about. that's a slap in the face to all those people who have busted their butts working as hard as they could to keep their head above the water.

would it be fair or accurate to say that a college football player just runs around the field playing a kid's game and therefore has it easy? of course not.

good point of view.....

[crackerman]

chronictiger.... nice that superbran could speak for you....gimme a break

[SuperBran]

just so eveyone knows....i'm not trying to take sides here. i'm just trying to say that both athletes and non-athletes have difficult times in school.





it's the rich kids that have it easy. LOL.

[monte81]

Well lets see:

I loved the football/university side of things because like TigerCoach always says---- you get the chicks!!!!:pimp:
Seriously I have been on both sides and they both have there rough edges but playing football is a dream of a lifetime!!!

You just have no money so its the football dorm ballroom/diner!!!!!

[ChronicTiger]

chronictiger.... nice that superbran could speak for you....gimme a break


If you read the post of mine, I said basically the same thing.......Now what was that your were saying about respect on this site?

[CarlE]

Probably the most ignorant statement ever posted on this site.

EVER?? EVER??? Are you kidding me?

[ChronicTiger]

EVER?? EVER??? Are you kidding me?

Nope. From where I was sitting when I wrote that I was very serious and it WAS the most ignorant statement I have EVER seen on this board.....

This thread has got real quiet.........

:glare:

[CarlE]

Probably because you make no sense with your posts, and others are making REAL ignorant comments, such as the one about stuffing $100 bills in the kids' Armani suits. My statement was more ignorant than THAT? I think not, my friend.

[ChronicTiger]

Probably because you make no sense with your posts, and others are making REAL ignorant comments, such as the one about stuffing $100 bills in the kids' Armani suits. My statement was more ignorant than THAT? I think not, my friend.

Your ignorant if you dont think college athletes get money and other gifts from boosters and fans! That seems to be what your saying, is it not? If you think my posts on this thread have no merit or make no sense you need help.

:eek2:

[CarlE]

Well, I know YOUR extremely grammatically incorrect posts have no merit. Now, I'll go real slow for you. When you are trying to say YOU ARE as a hyphenated word, you need to put the apostrophe in and add r e. As in you're, which means YOU ARE. Now, if you only did it once I would have overlooked it. But twice in the same post means I have to bury you with it.

Now, for the subject at hand. If I were as handcuffed as these athletes are, I would CERTAINLY want some type of help. Do you actually know the damn rules for a college athlete? I didn't think so. Why don't you just read the posts of two right here on this thread. Both went to D1 schools and BOTH are saying you are ignorant. Now, of course if you were a D1 athlete (hardy har) I might put some merit into what you are saying. And look who was quoted when this thread started. Anthony freaking Gonzalez, one of your freaking merit scholarship athletes. Now, stop your (see, that is a possessive) rambling and go find some article to post or something. You're (hyphenated word) out of your league here, son.

[austinsm11]

I say even number of $$$ for all sports and equal through conferences so each conference players could recieve the same amount of money each semester. That way a Northwestestern wrestler, a OSU soccar player, a Michigan football player, and a Purdue female athlete would all get the same!!!I dont know thats why it is the way it is now because they cant come to an agreement. But it is a unfair system!!!

So what happens if another conference can/will give more money to recruits?

[austinsm11]

Based on how Gonzalez feels, do we assume he will be leaving early?

[ChronicTiger]

Well, I know YOUR extremely grammatically incorrect posts have no merit. Now, I'll go real slow for you. When you are trying to say YOU ARE as a hyphenated word, you need to put the apostrophe in and add r e. As in you're, which means YOU ARE. Now, if you only did it once I would have overlooked it. But twice in the same post means I have to bury you with it.

Now, for the subject at hand. If I were as handcuffed as these athletes are, I would CERTAINLY want some type of help. Do you actually know the damn rules for a college athlete? I didn't think so. Why don't you just read the posts of two right here on this thread. Both went to D1 schools and BOTH are saying you are ignorant. Now, of course if you were a D1 athlete (hardy har) I might put some merit into what you are saying. And look who was quoted when this thread started. Anthony freaking Gonzalez, one of your freaking merit scholarship athletes. Now, stop your (see, that is a possessive) rambling and go find some article to post or something. You're (hyphenated word) out of your league here, son.

Gonzo was right, they did get exploited last night! Hey CarlE, you mean to tell me you dont remember Troy Smith getting C-notes slipped to him by a booster? Man, you must live in a dream world guy!

[ChronicTiger]

Well, I know YOUR extremely grammatically incorrect posts have no merit. Now, I'll go real slow for you. When you are trying to say YOU ARE as a hyphenated word, you need to put the apostrophe in and add r e. As in you're, which means YOU ARE. Now, if you only did it once I would have overlooked it. But twice in the same post means I have to bury you with it.

Now, for the subject at hand. If I were as handcuffed as these athletes are, I would CERTAINLY want some type of help. Do you actually know the damn rules for a college athlete? I didn't think so. Why don't you just read the posts of two right here on this thread. Both went to D1 schools and BOTH are saying you are ignorant. Now, of course if you were a D1 athlete (hardy har) I might put some merit into what you are saying. And look who was quoted when this thread started. Anthony freaking Gonzalez, one of your freaking merit scholarship athletes. Now, stop your (see, that is a possessive) rambling and go find some article to post or something. You're (hyphenated word) out of your league here, son.

CarlE,

You are soooo smart. Everyone should agree with you point of view simply because it is the RIGHT view. You're the man!

Sincerely,

Nick Saban

PS - They should also pay the band, the cheerleaders, and the waterboys....

[TigerCoach]

SuperBran,

My comment about "dipping fries in grease" was meant to be sarcastic, but I still find no comparison between a student working a job and going to school with a major college student athlete.

I've never played in a BCS Bowl game (because there was no such thing back in my day), but I have played in 2 bowl games. More important than the bowl game itself is the last couple games leading up to the invitation to play in a bowl game. How would you feel knowing that if you win a game, your team gets to go to a bowl that pays $12 million to the school, but if you lose, the team has to go to a bowl that only pays $1 million? Or worse yet, if you lose, you don't get to go to a bowl game? (That scenario actually happened my senior year when there were only 13 bowl games.) Players know the ramnifications, coaches make sure you get the message, not to mention the media making a big deal out of it.

There is a lot of stress involved for the players & coaches. MUCH more than worrying about only getting 4 hours of sleep because I had to work late, study and have a 8:00 am class.

[ChronicTiger]

I still find no comparison between a student working a job and going to school with a major college student athlete.


Why? The job is different but the drain on your time is the same. What is so different?

[TigerCoach]

Why? The job is different but the drain on your time is the same. What is so different?

Things like stress, not to mention the physical beating you take on a daily basis. Oh, and maybe I should remind you....an athletic scholarship is only year to year. If you don't perform, you get sent home. Does that clear it up?

[ChronicTiger]

Things like stress, not to mention the physical beating you take on a daily basis. Oh, and maybe I should remind you....an athletic scholarship is only year to year. If you don't perform, you get sent home. Does that clear it up?

:lol:

Funny stuff indeed!!

You mean to tell me that if you dont perform in the classroom you are allowed to stay in school? If you dont perform in school you can keep your academic scholarship? The normal college student doesnt have to deal with stress? Every job a college student gets is banker hours and does not involve any heavy labor?

LOL! No, it does not clear anything up but I was curious about your thinking........:eek2:

[CarlE]

:lol:

Funny stuff indeed!!

You mean to tell me that if you dont perform in the classroom you are allowed to stay in school? If you dont perform in school you can keep your academic scholarship? The normal college student doesnt have to deal with stress? Every job a college student gets is banker hours and does not involve any heavy labor?

LOL! No, it does not clear anything up but I was curious about your thinking........:eek2:

I'm actually curious as to your scholastic history and what the hell you actually do in the real world today. Because I would LOVE to get my hands on you from a business perspective. Like taking candy from a freaking baby. You have no CLUE what TigerCoach is talking about because you never walked in his shoes. So stop while you're only making a minimal fool out of yourself.

[SuperBran]

SuperBran,

My comment about "dipping fries in grease" was meant to be sarcastic, but I still find no comparison between a student working a job and going to school with a major college student athlete.

I've never played in a BCS Bowl game (because there was no such thing back in my day), but I have played in 2 bowl games. More important than the bowl game itself is the last couple games leading up to the invitation to play in a bowl game. How would you feel knowing that if you win a game, your team gets to go to a bowl that pays $12 million to the school, but if you lose, the team has to go to a bowl that only pays $1 million? Or worse yet, if you lose, you don't get to go to a bowl game? (That scenario actually happened my senior year when there were only 13 bowl games.) Players know the ramnifications, coaches make sure you get the message, not to mention the media making a big deal out of it.

There is a lot of stress involved for the players & coaches. MUCH more than worrying about only getting 4 hours of sleep because I had to work late, study and have a 8:00 am class.

did you work while attending college or did you just play football? in an earlier post you said "You really need to back off, Chronic, there are many guys on here who have experienced it and KNOW BETTER." basically you criticized him for stating his opinion b/c he never experienced college athletics....yet you feel free to state your opinion when you've probably never experienced employment while attending school. if you haven't experienced both sides, then why do you feel as though you know better than chronic? if you don't know what it's like to work and go to school at the same time, then how can you possibly criticize him? if you haven't experienced both, then how can you adamantly say that one is harder than the other?

how would I feel knowing that if we win a game we get to go to a bowl that pays $12 million to my school, but if we lose then the team has to go to a bowl that only pays $1 million (Or worse yet, no bowl game)? i'd feel like i still have a scholarship and still am receiving a good education. it's not as though if you lose you get kicked out of school. whether your school makes $10 million or $1 million you still receive your scholarship money.

i understand that college athletes have a lot of stress, especially because if you don't perform then you might lose your scholarship. however, if working while in school is such a paradise then those athletes who lose their scholarships should jump for joy knowing that they'll have it easier now that they only have to serve fries.....but how many third string football players would give up football for fries?

if you want to talk about stress, how about the stress of knowing that if you don't put in so many hours a week working you can't continue in school? no money = no school. how about the stress of knowing that you have to work long hours to make enough money to go to school, then have to worry about putting in the hours to avoid getting kicked out?

i'm not saying athletes have it easy, or easier. i'm saying that both athletes and non-athletes face challenges, and to say that one struggles more than the other is ridiculous........and not to mention difficult to guage.

[TigerCoach]

Yes, I have worked and gone to school at the same time. Not while I was in undergrad and playing football, scholarship athletes are not permitted to hold a job during school. But, I worked 12 hours a day and attended Akron U for 2 years at night getting my MBA. Does that give me cred?

In my opinion, working and going to school was much less stressful both physically and mentally.

[TigerCoach]

SuperBran, I respect your opinion about how you would feel about having your scholarship regardless of the outcome of a few games. But, when you have coaches who are barking and putting on added pressure, it makes a difference.

[SuperBran]

Yes, I have worked and gone to school at the same time. Not while I was in undergrad and playing football, scholarship athletes are not permitted to hold a job during school. But, I worked 12 hours a day and attended Akron U for 2 years at night getting my MBA. Does that give me cred?

In my opinion, working and going to school was much less stressful both physically and mentally.

it's all relative, and depends on your job and your school workload. i had a friend complete his mba while working full time. to him it was easy because he was only taking 6 hours per semester and he knew that no matter what happened in school he still had a job. he worked as an undergrad and found it much more difficult because he needed the money to stay in school, and had to keep up his grades up to stay in as well.

also, you have to keep in mind that there's a lot of stress on a kid to graduate from college. as adults with degrees there's not as much stress to obtain an advanced degree. i worked full-time when i went to law school but there wasn't nearly as much pressure to finish as there was when i was an undergrad.

and the key phrase in your post was "in my opinion."

[SuperBran]

SuperBran, I respect your opinion about how you would feel about having your scholarship regardless of the outcome of a few games. But, when you have coaches who are barking and putting on added pressure, it makes a difference.

i would rather have coaches yelling at me then a manager yelling at me and knowing that if i lose my job i may end up out of school.

again, how many bench warmers would rather be serving up fries or working somewhere else instead of playing football? if it's so much easier, and they have absolutely no shot at the pros, then why not take the easy route?

the bottom line is that the third string player who hasn't seen the field all year would rather be lifting and practicing and experiencing that kind of stress than working at mcdonalds. why? b/c they love what they're doing. it's easier to do something you love than something you hate.

i'm sure it's stressful having the coaches yelling at you to work to make it to a better paying bowl, but i'd rather have that stress than the stress of worrying about whether you'll be able to work enough hours and make enough money to go to school.

[ChronicTiger]

I'm actually curious as to your scholastic history and what the hell you actually do in the real world today. Because I would LOVE to get my hands on you from a business perspective. Like taking candy from a freaking baby. You have no CLUE what TigerCoach is talking about because you never walked in his shoes. So stop while you're only making a minimal fool out of yourself.

:lol:

You think you can rip me off based on my opinion of college athletes getting paid? Funny! What is it that I said in that post that you dont agree with?
What is so foolish?

Are you saying that stress is something only a college athlete has to deal with? Are you saying that you dont have to perform to keep an academic scholarship?

What is so different about a student athlete as opposed to a normal student that makes you think they should get paid? Do you have anything to offer to this thread besides thinking your The Donald? Dont worry about what I do, you couldnt handle it.

[CarlE]

:lol:

Dont worry about what I do, you couldnt handle it.

Uh HUH.

[Obie Wan]

1. Paying athletes makes them professionals. You want to watch pro football? Wait until Sunday, or start a minor league system like MLB has.
2. No one is forcing these kids to pay college football.
3. Many of these guys have no business being in college; athletics are the only way for them to get in. Or does someone think they're all Rhodes Scholars in disguise?

[austinsm11]

Tigercoach and Carle,

Just a question, but how do you feel that sportsfans who feel that these players are exploited can help to stop this?

Wouldn't one of the best ways be to not watch or attend all these bowl games? How many people would actually do this?
(This also relates to the playoff format. I read somewhere, I forget where, that there was little motivation for a playoff format since fans still watch the bowl games even while complaining. Until fans quit watching, why bother changing is the mindset). I agree that their situation stinks. But I am not going to protest watching the bowl games because of it.

Also, why do you feel they are exploited? If it is because of all the money being made off of bowl games, merchandise, etc., then why should the band, soccer players, swimmers, etc. also get a stipened or some form of payment. These sports don't make any money.


Personally I have been in both the work and sports situation, although not in a major DI school. I found sports to be much better. I had to wake up at 5:00 workouts. I have also had to be up at 5:00 to be at work at 6am. Waking up that early sucks no matter what your doing, but lifting and playing ball was much better than working. I don't know the pressure in a major college program, however. Also, when I looked at my "pay" for how much I had to commit to the sports program, I made alot more than at a job.

[austinsm11]

1. Paying athletes makes them professionals. You want to watch pro football? Wait until Sunday, or start a minor league system like MLB has.
2. No one is forcing these kids to pay college football.
3. Many of these guys have no business being in college; athletics are the only way for them to get in. Or does someone think they're all Rhodes Scholars in disguise?

Very good points, especially #2.

[shortbev]

bucks, bucks bucks...the almighty buck is the be all and end all of everything...wasn't bad enough when everything got prostituted at the professional level...players selling this...and that...stadiums being named after companies (rather than people who really contributed to the game)now we want to do it at the college...then, it will be the high school and so on...

thanks to greed on the parts of many...the normal, average joe like myself will never be able to afford attending most ohio state games, let alone attending an Ohio State / Michigan game because of all the profiteering from scalpers etc...

thanks to greed on the parts of professional players and owners...i have probably attended my last pro game (no matter the sport)...

and soon it will probably be where i can't even watch it on television without forking out some serious bucks...

yes, these guys are very talented...but no one and i repeat NO ONE is really worth MILLIONS of dollars to play a sport...i don't care if they are michael jordon, lebron james or who...

we have turned everything in life to a matter of dollars and cents...what has happened to doing things for the simple love of the game??? doing something simply because it brings such self-satisfaction???

i am not saying that people shouldn't be payed for doing a job (which it becomes at the professional level)...but surely there is a reasonable limit...jim thome for example...cleveland offers him $60 million...and that still isn't enough to stay loyal to the fans that came out to cheer him on throughout each season...what difference would 15 million make, once you are making 60??? not enough, in my opinion to thumb your nose at the people who make your job possible in the first place...

we the fans are the ones the game is played for...we the fans are the ones who shell out the bucks...and that bottom line is where the blame really lies...

we the fan...

when are people going to wake up and quit paying these ridiculous prices for tickets and other things connected with sports??? (among other things)


this topic makes me sick...because they are killing the game that i love so very much...the love that began when i was growing up in Tigertown...killing it to the very end of life when they sell you that casket with the team logo on it...


and as far as college stress goes...try being a single mother...with two kids...house to maintain (both normal and repairs) and going to college full time...
the stress the traditional student (athlete or not) handles is less than someone who is trying to jiggle a full-time family, job as well as school...we just have different priorites...less partying...more people relying on us...greater responsiblities...coach can always get someone else to take your place...and you can make the choice to move out or onward...who takes the place of a parent???

[crackerman]

1. Paying athletes makes them professionals. You want to watch pro football? Wait until Sunday, or start a minor league system like MLB has.
2. No one is forcing these kids to pay college football.
3. Many of these guys have no business being in college; athletics are the only way for them to get in. Or does someone think they're all Rhodes Scholars in disguise?

Whoah.....wait a minute. In regards to #3....Last time I checked, a student still has to be accepted academically in to enroll at the school to be able to play. Normal students do not have to meet the NCAA clearinghouse regulations either that athletes have to meet.
In regards to #2, nobody is making little Johnnie work at Krispy Kreme to go to college either.

[SuperBran]

Whoah.....wait a minute. In regards to #3....Last time I checked, a student still has to be accepted academically in to enroll at the school to be able to play. Normal students do not have to meet the NCAA clearinghouse regulations either that athletes have to meet.
In regards to #2, nobody is making little Johnnie work at Krispy Kreme to go to college either.


first - there are MANY kids who are forced to work at "krispy kreme" to go to college. no money = no school. no one may be making "little johnnie" work to go to college, but if he doesn't work then "little johnnie" gets no degree.

second - if you think that athletes are held to the same entrance standards as everyone else then i have some beachfront property in iraq to sell you. i attended miami university and i can tell you that if the football team had to apply like everyone else, and no one knew they were football players, over half of them wouldn't have been accepted. a lot of those guys were as bright as a box of rocks. same with other athletes as well. go to any school in the nation and look at the academic records of all athletes entering their freshmen year and see how many wouldn't have been accepted if they would have applied only as a student. i'll guarantee that the number is quite low.

the athletes at miaim may have met the bare minimum for entrance at the school, but there's no way that most of them would have been accepted going up against the type of students that are passed over each year.

for example, say a star football player has a 2.8 gpa and scores an 18 on his act. this kid can get an athletic scholarship to play football at miami. however, if that kid applied to miami only as a student do you really think he has a snowball's chance in hell of being accepted?

[monte81]

The rules are set up so that athletes are required to have certain criteria so working hard in the classroom pays off if you are not a good test taker!! I think it is pretty fair as the clearinghouse rules are cut and dry--no exceptions unles a student/athlete has mental disability!!!

Here is the rules:
GPA/SAT/ACT
3.550 400 37
3.525 410 38
3.500 420 39
3.475 430 40
3.450 440 41
3.425 450 41
3.400 460 42
3.375 470 42
3.350 480 43
3.325 490 44
3.300 500 44
3.275 510 45
3.250 520 46
3.225 530 46
3.200 540 47
3.175 550 47
3.150 560 48
3.125 570 49
3.100 580 49
3.075 590 50
3.050 600 50
3.025 610 51
3.000 620 52
2.975 630 52
2.950 640 53
2.925 650 53
2.900 660 54
2.875 670 55
2.850 680 56
2.825 690 56
2.800 700 57
2.775 710 58
2.750 720 59
2.725 730 59
2.700 730 60
2.675 740 61
2.650 760 62
2.625 770 63
2.600 780 64
2.575 790 65
2.550 800 66
2.525 810 67
2.500 820 68
2.475 830 69
2.450 840 70
2.425 860 70
2.400 860 71
2.375 870 72
2.350 880 73
2.325 890 74
2.300 900 75
2.275 910 76
2.250 920 77
2.225 930 78
2.200 940 79
2.175 950 80
2.150 960 80
2.125 960 81
2.100 970 82
2.075 980 83
2.050 990 84
2.025 1000 85
2.000 1010 86

*ACT Score is a sum of English, Math, Reading and Science scores.

College is not easy with kids, jobs, playing sports or just gong to class in itself but the student/athletes are exploited--- #7 authentic Ted Ginn Jr. jersey--$200.00 Pittman=175.00 and Troy Smith is more than both of them!! You tell me that the players shouldn't get a pinch of that money while the school and the buckeye merchants are getting rich!! Not counting the $12+ million OSU got for getting stomped on Monday! The team got Xbox 360's from the game---12miilion minus 40,000(xbox's)=11.6 million profit for the school!!! Do you think a few hundred a month would hurt any major program??-NO

[SuperBran]

so these kids get anywhere from $10,000 to $30,000 per year in college tuition while the school rakes in millions of dollars each year. exploited? yes.

i know a guy who works for a major pharmaceutical company making $30k per year (with a college degree) while the company makes over a BILLION dollars a QUARTER. exploited? indeed.

i'll agree that these kids are exploited; however, they're not the most exploited people in the country.

[SuperBran]

College is not easy with kids, jobs, playing sports or just gong to class in itself but the student/athletes are exploited--- #7 authentic Ted Ginn Jr. jersey--$200.00 Pittman=175.00 and Troy Smith is more than both of them!! You tell me that the players shouldn't get a pinch of that money while the school and the buckeye merchants are getting rich!! Not counting the $12+ million OSU got for getting stomped on Monday! The team got Xbox 360's from the game---12miilion minus 40,000(xbox's)=11.6 million profit for the school!!! Do you think a few hundred a month would hurt any major program??-NO

should we pay the best students since they add to the reputation of their schools, thus contributing to their school receiving more educational/research grants?

[crackerman]

actually your wrong on the whole Miami will take a kid with a 2.8 and an 18 on ACT. I know of a kid personally that thye recruited this year, and his grades were just that, they wanted him...but couldnt get him in. Miami is just as tough for the athletes. Should People with good grades get paid you ask? Sure....as soon as 3.5 million people watch in person and on tv that person take a 3 1/2 hour chemistry test...and hang on his every answer, and if he does well enough he makes his conference $17 million ....sure...pay that person.

[CarlE]

actually your wrong on the whole Miami will take a kid with a 2.8 and an 18 on ACT. I know of a kid personally that thye recruited this year, and his grades were just that, they wanted him...but couldnt get him in. Miami is just as tough for the athletes. Should People with good grades get paid you ask? Sure....as soon as 3.5 million people watch in person and on tv that person take a 3 1/2 hour chemistry test...and hang on his every answer, and if he does well enough he makes his conference $17 million ....sure...pay that person.

GREAT post, cracka. You are definitely on your A game today, bro.

[TigerCoach]

I cannot debate a topic with people who have not experienced it. I'm out!

[CarlE]

I cannot debate a topic with people who have not experienced it. I'm out!

Exactly what I tried to tell the yahoos, TC.

[crackerman]

I find it ironic though that these guys (and I dont mean the guys on just this site, I mean in general public) who debate this issue against the athletes, do not debate as hard when it is a Gonzo type kid. A white, high gpa student from a parochial high school with a catholic up-bringing. Let that be Troy Smith who said that and they would of came out of the woodwork trying to ambush him. Im personally glad that Gonzo came out the way he did and backed it with factual information.

[TigerCoach]

Now that I'm a parent, ShortBev has by far been through the most stressful situation.

"and as far as college stress goes...try being a single mother...with two kids...house to maintain (both normal and repairs) and going to college full time...
the stress the traditional student (athlete or not) handles is less than someone who is trying to jiggle a full-time family, job as well as school...we just have different priorites...less partying...more people relying on us...greater responsiblities...coach can always get someone else to take your place...and you can make the choice to move out or onward...who takes the place of a parent???"

[SuperBran]

actually your wrong on the whole Miami will take a kid with a 2.8 and an 18 on ACT. I know of a kid personally that thye recruited this year, and his grades were just that, they wanted him...but couldnt get him in. Miami is just as tough for the athletes. Should People with good grades get paid you ask? Sure....as soon as 3.5 million people watch in person and on tv that person take a 3 1/2 hour chemistry test...and hang on his every answer, and if he does well enough he makes his conference $17 million ....sure...pay that person.

please. it's not about watching a kid take a chem test and hang on his answer. it's about MONEY, and it doen't matter if that money comes from watching a kid run a football or from grants given to a school based on their great reputation (due to the quality of the students). making money for your school is making money for your school, and it doesn't matter how it's done. are you trying to tell me that there's a difference? whether a kid contributes to bringing in money to their school on the field or in the classroom is irrelevant....what matters is the fact that they bring money to the school. i think you forget how much money schools rake in on grants......grants that come in b/c of the academic reputation a school has.

you're actually wrong about miami. knowing one guy is good, but i knew a more than a few athletes who were let in with similar data. do you actually think that every athlete at miami had at least a 2.8 gpa and an 18 on the act (not the revised act, but the standard act that i took back in the early '90s). are you actually trying to tell me that if the football players at miami applied with everyone else, and no one knew they were football players, that they'd all be accepted? LOL. there's NO way. miami rejects kids a helluva lot brighter. i sat in class with athletes who shocked me because they could read, yet you want me to believe that these guys deserved to be at school based on their academic performance? i know one person who had a 3.5 and a 26 on the act and couldn't get accepted.....yet you think everyone on the wrestling team outperformed them in the classroom. heck, half of those guys spend most of their time trying to walk upright!

no matter how you want to shed light on it, the fact remains that many athletes wouldn't have been accepted if it weren't for their athletic ability. they may have had the bare minimum requirements and COULD be admitted, but there's a difference between "could" and "would."

[SuperBran]

I cannot debate a topic with people who have not experienced it. I'm out!

as i cannot debate a topic with people who accept their opinions as the truth.

[ChronicTiger]

GREAT post, cracka. You are definitely on your A game today, bro.


:lol:

[crackerman]

i sat in class with athletes who shocked me because they could read, yet you want me to believe that these guys deserved to be at school based on their academic performance? ."

Most ignorant statement ever one this site and most stereotypical. Wow your truly amazing

[monte81]

should we pay the best students since they add to the reputation of their schools, thus contributing to their school receiving more educational/research grants?


If they were selling research papers at $200 a paragraph then hell yea you pay him!! Alot of the smart students are on academic grants and scholarships and can work while at school! That is double dipping for a student/athlete--- I had to play tonk to buy a pitcher of Budweiser on penny night at the campus pubs!!!!and half the time i was doing it with Grimsley(a bulldog) which made it even harder even though we were now on the same team!!:lol:

Everyone makes their choices in college or if your good enough the school chooses you but it is still a matter of getting the education!!! Free is free--that is the only thing I ever got that I didn't pay for---Oh wait--I have a reoccuring right shoulder seperation from busting up TE's and running backs for half my life!! Man that degree helps me sit and make big $$$$ for the State of Ohio now though without physical contact and read/write on MP all day!!! I would play again for the same oppurtunities but would not party so much and actually stay and PERFORM the full 4/5 years!!!

[SuperBran]

Most ignorant statement ever one this site and most stereotypical. Wow your truly amazing

ignorant? stereotypical? please.

true? yes indeed. i was at miami when devin davis was there playing basketball. you want to talk about a box of rocks.........

perhaps you couldn't pick up on the fact that i was being facetious in order to prove a point. i lived in a dorm that mostly housed athletes...from hockey players to cross country to football.........there were guys in there who were barely smarter than a brick wall. you say that my statement is stereotypical, yet that comment in and of itself is ignorant as i didn't say that ALL athletes are stupid. perhaps you should read my post again before making ignorant statements yourself. do you honestly believe that there are no dumb athletes out there? are they all great thinkers of our time? denial ain't just a river in egypt! i'd rather be ignornat than willfully blind.

i think what is more ignorant is someone actually trying to get people to believe that are no football players are at school just because of sports! i'm sure ALL athletes were stellar students in high school (insert sarchasm here).

the truth of the matter is that we wouldn't have quite as many athletes at school if they had to be admitted based on academics and actually had to compete with other bright students to be admitted to school.

[TigerCoach]

Thanks, Monte! I forgot I also got a free case of arthritis on both knees along with that sheepskin that "was handed to me".

[SuperBran]

Alot of the smart students are on academic grants and scholarships and can work while at school! That is double dipping for a student/athlete

i'm not talking about kids with academic scholarships who are working for extra money. i'm talking about kids who work to pay for their schooling.....kids that need the money to obtain their education.

i'm comparing the football players who play football to pay for their tuition and the non-athletes who work to pay for theirs.

[SuperBran]

Thanks, Monte! I forgot I also got a free case of arthritis on both knees along with that sheepskin that "was handed to me".

you live by the gun, you die by the gun.

if you choose to play football to obtain your degree, then you have to accept the negative consequences that follow.

you had a choice.....work through school to pay for it, or accept a football scholarship. if you chose to obtain your degree by engaging in physical activity, you can't complain about the injuries....afterall, by your argument you could have taken such an easy route and worked instead.

i had a friend in law school who divorced during school. many of their problems came from the fact that he was never home. he didn't complain about his life being messed up because he knew that he made the choice to go to school at night, and he had to deal with any consequences that followed from that choice.

[monte81]

i'm not talking about kids with academic scholarships who are working for extra money. i'm talking about kids who work to pay for their schooling.....kids that need the money to obtain their education.

i'm comparing the football players who play football to pay for their tuition and the non-athletes who work to pay for theirs.

Come on we all know that the OIG and Pell covers tuition and books every quarter for those students and its FREE so all their paycheck goes to their extra activities!! If you are not financially well off then its books or sports but the student loan/free student grants are also cool!

[SuperBran]

Come on we all know that the OIG and Pell covers tuition and books every quarter for those students and its FREE so all their paycheck goes to their extra activities!! If you are not financially well off then its books or sports but the student loan/free student grants are also cool!

not everyone gets enough money to cover all of their expenses, and those that do receive aid do not always receive enough aid. i know many people who had parents who made enough money to where they didn't get much support, but yet not enough money to really help them out.

AGAIN, i'm NOT talking about kids who have have the help.

[TigerCoach]

I'm not complaining about anything. I'm just saying your crazy to think that working students "have it hard" compared to scholarship students who play major college sports. That's INSANITY!

[SuperBran]

I'm not complaining about anything. I'm just saying your crazy to think that working students "have it hard" compared to scholarship students who play major college sports. That's INSANITY!

when did i say that? again i point out the fact (which i've stated before), that i'm NOT trying to say that working students have it harder. i'm saying that working students have it JUSTAS HARD, and to say that athletes have it so much harder is ridiculous. people have been acting as though working students have it easy.

[OTC TIGER]

See Ya tomorrow Ralph..O.K. Sam :laughing:

[Seeker]

I'm not going to argue on the main point here.

But, you aren't talking about Miami of Ohio are you?

If any athlete gets into Miami of Ohio with an ACT below 27, then he is there ONLY because he's an athlete.

It takes a cum of 3.7 and an ACT of 27 to even be considered for admission there.

I'm sorry guys, but as a casual sports fan, I'm disgusted every time I watch the players being interviewed after a game. Half of these "college" players are so damn ignorant that they can't make sense when they speak.
The interviews after the OSU game Monday night were a perfect example.

The guy they interviewed from the Gators' defense was obviously an ignorant loser that barely managed to graduate from high school.
Somebody HAS to be babying him through college because there's no way hes doing it on his own.

[ChronicTiger]

I'm not going to argue on the main point here.

But, you aren't talking about Miami of Ohio are you?

If any athlete gets into Miami of Ohio with an ACT below 27, then he is there ONLY because he's an athlete.

It takes a cum of 3.7 and an ACT of 27 to even be considered for admission there.

I'm sorry guys, but as a casual sports fan, I'm disgusted every time I watch the players being interviewed after a game. Half of these "college" players are so damn ignorant that they can't make sense when they speak.
The interviews after the OSU game Monday night were a perfect example.

The guy they interviewed from the Gators' defense was obviously an ignorant loser that barely managed to graduate from high school.
Somebody HAS to be babying him through college because there's no way hes doing it on his own.

Yea, I saw him......and to think people want to pay him on top of everything else........

:puke:

[Kamd50]

Thought this article was relevant to this discussion.

Why Bigger is Better at Ohio State
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2007-01-04-ohiostate-finances-cover_x.htm?csp=15&POE=click-refer

[TigerCoach]

In fact, Ohio State's $104.7 million in athletics revenue a year ago also ranked first. The athletic program as a whole turned a $2.9 million profit, its fiscal filings show, and is self-supporting. - Excerpt from the article Kamd50 posted above.

Like Monte & I were saying, athletes can't even afford to take a girl on a date, and aren't permitted to work during the school year. This pretty much justifies our point.

[SuperBran]

Like Monte & I were saying, athletes can't even afford to take a girl on a date, and aren't permitted to work during the school year. This pretty much justifies our point.

yes, and everyone else can afford to do so.:suspect:

[TigerCoach]

Well, if you know Monte, taking a girl on a date would include champagne, limo's and a room at the Holiday Inn with chocolate covered strawberries. No way he could afford it. Me? All I needed was a pitcher of beer and a room. LOL!

[monte81]

Well, if you know Monte, taking a girl on a date would include champagne, limo's and a room at the Holiday Inn with chocolate covered strawberries. No way he could afford it. Me? All I needed was a pitcher of beer and a room. LOL!

Hey I have to do it big! I save the pitchers of beer for when I hang out with the fellas! TC-- Moet is like $50.00 a bottle with tax so if I do it like that she better be a dime. Man I stayed at the........well thats another thread!!!!

:pimp:

[SuperBran]

Well, if you know Monte, taking a girl on a date would include champagne, limo's and a room at the Holiday Inn with chocolate covered strawberries. No way he could afford it. Me? All I needed was a pitcher of beer and a room. LOL!

is the pitcher of beer for her or you? LOL.