Draft?

[werperry]

wasn't this the same man who warned about W reinstating the draft? God i love those wacky democrats....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/19/AR2006111900376_pf.html

Rep. Rangel Will Seek to Reinstate Draft

By JOHN HEILPRIN
The Associated Press
Sunday, November 19, 2006; 4:11 PM



WASHINGTON -- Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.

Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars and to bolster U.S. troop levels insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.

[liner]

.......will not happen...

........one man cannot reinstate the draft and i love blowhards on both sides in washington dc.......the draft would put responsibilty on our congress and white house to actually do something about this war in iraq......if we do need the draft in the future it's an option that was of major help in ww's,korea and nam,regardless of what rummy the dummy has said

[werperry]

frankly... i'm in full support of a mandatory 2 years of service in the military. sadly though... it will never happen.

what irks me the most is that this is used by rangle 2-3 years ago AGAINST the president... now he's for it? politicians make me sick.

[liner]

frankly... i'm in full support of a mandatory 2 years of service in the military. sadly though... it will never happen.

what irks me the most is that this is used by rangle 2-3 years ago AGAINST the president... now he's for it? politicians make me sick......

........i am guilty of not following our politicians closely enough and of observing the buffoons more then the wise.... when i watch some of these guys on shows like imus they actually make some sense and their friendships within the opposing party always amazes me......joe biden refused to campaign against joe lieberman for his party and told imus what a dirty business it can be......sometimes if you don't back their man you can forget a chairmanship you actually earned...this of course happens in both parties and is part of a scene that will last forever ..imho

[SuperBran]

frankly... i'm in full support of a mandatory 2 years of service in the military. sadly though... it will never happen.

if you support mandatory military service, then why aren't you signing up as we speak? just go sign up and then it's mandatory.

[pnthrfan]

frankly... i'm in full support of a mandatory 2 years of service in the military. sadly though... it will never happen.

How many years did you serve in the military werperry?

[marlow]

How many years did you serve in the military werperry?


Probably as many as Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield and all the other blood soaked traitors in the War Party.

[CarlE]

Probably as many as Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield and all the other blood soaked traitors in the War Party.
OUCH. Good answer, Marlow.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

The only draft that should be considered at this time is the one that will determine in what order these great men and women will come home to the good ol U S of A! :usflag:

Personally I'd rather see these patriots standing at the ready at our airports, performing inspections at our sea ports, protecting our borders, and at the beckon call of our country's leaders for domestic disasters and foreign intelligence and assistance where needed!

[tucker]

Rangel's PR stunt of asking to bring back the draft did not occur in a vacuum or as part of any official Democratic strategy. I see Rangel's call to reinstate the draft as a direct response to the comments of Henry Kissinger and Sen John McCain's last week.

Kissinger said the war in Iraq is unwinnable. McCain then said that the US should send "many more" soldiers to Iraq to ensure victory there. Rangel's reply seems to me a way to raise McCain's bet or call his bluff. The army, reserves and National Guard are about played out due to the severe demands made of them in Iraq. Where would the "many more" soldiers come from? Recruiting quotas in all service branches have been met recently only because the standards have been drastically lowered.

I think Rangel is making the point that if a draft lottery has the potential to pick anyone's son or daughter, policy makers may be more discerning when it comes to calling for their blood and sacrifice. We're at war right now, a deadly serious war, but except for some jingoism, talk radio warriors and great-looking yellow bumper stickers, you couldn't tell it from any other sacrifical behavior of the average American.

Rangel's comments will at least get people talking about serious issues. Maybe even Congress will ask a few questions before being blindly led down another wrong path, carelessly and casually putting our service men and women in harm's way without being certain that is the correct course of action.

BTW - if McCain runs for Prez again, I'll vote for him in a second. A true conservative Republican, not a neo-con fakejob.

[Spize]

LOL I love it... A dem wants to bring back the draft AND blame it on the GOP.

What a loser.

[Obie Wan]

The GOP should call Rangel's bluff. Let him put the issue up for a vote in the house. Let the Dems fracture themselves again.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I say NO draft, but, if the answer is "GO BIG", then where do they plan on getting enough troops to make a significant difference?

[werperry]

How many years did you serve in the military werperry?

sadly about 2 days...May 1998. went through my MEPPS test & physical in pittsburgh...did the oath and took a job which would've of stationed me in san diego. (the other choice was rhode island...which would you've chosen?)

during those 2 days... family issues came up that forced me change direction. after about 6 hours of discussing the situation... my recruiters C.O. agreed to my separation. (needless to say...my recruiter was pissed!) received my separation papers about a week later.... to this day those are in my first drawer, in case naval personel show up at my door... LOL.

why do you ask?

[werperry]

blood soaked traitors in the War Party.


:help2:

[SuperBran]

sadly about 2 days...May 1998. went through my MEPPS test & physical in pittsburgh...did the oath and took a job which would've of stationed me in san diego. (the other choice was rhode island...which would you've chosen?)

during those 2 days... family issues came up that forced me change direction. after about 6 hours of discussing the situation... my recruiters C.O. agreed to my separation. (needless to say...my recruiter was pissed!) received my separation papers about a week later.... to this day those are in my first drawer, in case naval personel show up at my door... LOL.

why do you ask?

he's asking b/c you said that you support a mandatory two year commitment to the armed forces.

if you believe so much in mandatory service, then why don't you sign up and serve in the military? all you have to do is sign up. it's that easy.

saying we should have mandatory duty and being willing to do it are two different things. it's easy to say we should do it when it's only a thought.

[werperry]

i believe i was willing superbran..at one point in my life. your point?

what's moronic about your little counterpoint is... you're clueless when it comes to my situation and outlook. i expressed my opinion and you (and panthfn) shoot back with what was obviously an attempt to back me in a corner.

keep trying... :zzz:

[SuperBran]

i believe i was willing superbran..at one point in my life. your point?

what's moronic about your little counterpoint is... you're clueless when it comes to my situation and outlook. i expressed my opinion and you (and panthfn) shoot back with what was obviously an attempt to back me in a corner.

keep trying... :zzz:

please.

you sit there and state that you think there should be a mandatory two year service requirement....yet you've never served and i don't see you lining up to sign up at this time when we are in need of soldiers.

yeah, you mentioned how family issues came up and so you couldn't serve. what's holding you up now? afterall, family issues are a lot different than health issues (which could prevent you from serving in the future). if you think we should be obligated to serve in the military, then why not sign up and serve as a model citizen for everyone else.

my "moronic counterpoint" is that it's easy for you to say how we SHOULD have this and that, but talking is one thing and doing is another. if you're so gung-ho about military service, then head down to the local recruiters instead of talking about what everyone else should be forced to do.....especially when you've never served and have no idea what military service is like....then again, i doubt you'd be willing to sign up now with this little civil war thing going on over there.

it's easy to say that someone should do something when you don't have to do it yourself. talk is cheap. if you want to make a statement, do it with actions.

[pnthrfan]

werperry.....I didn't try to back you into a corner.....I just wanted to know if you served and when. That was all.

[werperry]

please.

you sit there and state that you think that there should be a mandatory two year service requirement....yet i don't see you lining up to serve your country at this time.

yeah, you mentioned how family issues came up and so you couldn't go back in 98. what's holding you up now? afterall, family issues are a lot different than health issues. if you think we should be obligated to serve in the military, then why not sign up and serve as a model citizen.

my "moronic counterpoint" is that it's easy for you to say how we SHOULD do have this and that, but talking is one thing and doing is another. if you're so gung-ho about military service, then head down to the local recruiters instead of talking your talk.

whatever dude. talk all the smack you want... i believe that EVERYONE coming out of high school should sign up for 2 years.

* at age 18 i was young and dumb...i respected the military but i went with the flow and entered college...that was circa 92

* age 25 i entered the navy...only to have to attend to family matters

* currently married with a house, cancer survior (1-1/2 yrs) and actively working on kids.

even if i wanted to at this point...my obligation is with my family. the reason i don't sign up is BECAUSE of my family. BUT, if i could do it ALL over again... i would've of joined the Navy for a 4 year stint out of high school...hindsight is 20/20.


your mistake is you've taken my opinion on support for mandatory military service...and drew your own conclusions what my situation is.

[Seeker]

People who tout mandatory service are usually people too old to be drafted, with sons that are not old enough yet.

It's been a long, long time since the Generals were the ones leading the charge.

It's sickening to listen to people suggest that others go, or send their sons to face death so that they can continue their lovely American lifestyle.


People who would not be making a personal sacrifice with a mandatory conscription have a right to an opinion, but IMO, they should keep it to themselves.


:vconst:

[SuperBran]

whatever dude. talk all the smack you want... i believe that EVERYONE coming out of high school should sign up for 2 years.

* at age 18 i was young and dumb...i respected the military but i went with the flow and entered college...that was circa 92

* age 25 i entered the navy...only to have to attend to family matters

* currently married with a house, cancer survior (1-1/2 yrs) and actively working on kids.

even if i wanted to at this point...my obligation is with my family. the reason i don't sign up is BECAUSE of my family. BUT, if i could do it ALL over again... i would've of joined the Navy for a 4 year stint out of high school...hindsight is 20/20.


your mistake is you've taken my opinion on support for mandatory military service...and drew your own conclusions what my situation is.

woulda, coulda, shoulda.

i'm not talking smack, but rather proving a fact. so you think that everyone should be forced to serve two years.....but then follow it up by saying that you won't sign up now, even though you could, becasue of your family. should everyone be able to duck that mandatory service if they have a family or plan to have a family? you can't have it both ways. either you make it mandatory no matter what the situation, or you take volunteers as we do now. i don't know if you are aware, but there are MANY service men and women who have families but are still fighting overseas. are you afraid of dying in battle? if so, then how could you vote for mandatory service. that's ridiculous.

everyone has obligations that are near and dear to them. if service was mandatory would i be able to avoid it b/c my law practice is my obligation right now? don't you think that EVERYONE would have one excuse or another on why they shouldn't be forced to serve?

i drew no conclusions about what your situation was. i simply made a point. you say you believe we should be forced to serve, but yet you give excuses why you won't. you're not willing, at this point, to walk the walk and back up what you speak of. you have the ability to enter the service instead of talking about what we should do, yet you refuse to do so. it's "i coulda, shoulda, but refuse to do so." it's "do as i say and not as i do."

if you think it should be mandatory, then lead by example instead of talking about something you refuse to do. sorry, but saying "i was willing at one point before i talked my way out of it" doesn't carry much weight.

it's easy to say that others should be forced to put their life on the line when you offer up excuses on why you refuse to do it yourself.

again, talking is easy....it's the doing part that's the hardest.

don't tell me i should be forced to lay my life on the line when refuse to do so yourself.

[SuperBran]

People who tout mandatory service are usually people too old to be drafted, with sons that are not old enough yet.

It's been a long, long time since the Generals were the ones leading the charge.

It's sickening to listen to people suggest that others go, or send their sons to face death so that they can continue their lovely American lifestyle.


People who would not be making a personal sacrifice with a mandatory conscription have a right to an opinion, but IMO, they should keep it to themselves.


:vconst:

you are wise, grasshopper. i agree completely.

[werperry]

People who tout mandatory service are usually people too old to be drafted, with sons that are not old enough yet.

It's been a long, long time since the Generals were the ones leading the charge.

It's sickening to listen to people suggest that others go, or send their sons to face death so that they can continue their lovely American lifestyle.


People who would not be making a personal sacrifice with a mandatory conscription have a right to an opinion, but IMO, they should keep it to themselves.


:vconst:

what a simplistic view seeker. i guess no one who's ever played sports, been involved in politics, etc... should keep their opinion's to themselves. thanks for sharing your thoughts on who you'd rather hear opinions from...moderator.

so what if an individual hasn't served in the military. their opinion matters less? you don't think for one minute, that (me in particuar) doesn't know what a sacrifice it is to join... you're out of your mind.


the fact of the matter is this -- our society and world has degenerated to a point where we are weak from the inside and we have enemies all around. if we don't build our military up...and show discipline among the ranks we will NOT be enjoying the same prosperity 10, 15 or 20 years from now.

[werperry]

are you afraid of dying in battle?

i wasn't afraid to die during my bout of cancer, nor would i be afraid to die in battle.

i'm done.

[SuperBran]

i wasn't afraid to die during my bout of cancer, nor would i be afraid to die in battle.

i'm done.

here's a better question.......


if the government was currently thinking of enacting legislation that would require everyone between the ages of 18 and 40 to serve a mandatory term of 2 years in the military, would you support that legislation...knowing that your obligation is to your family right now?

or would you have a change of heart b/c of your family?

[werperry]

yes i would. although...extremely difficult...if it was mandatory i would go.

the way i look at it is this... IF it did come to that point...my/our country would need us...no if's, and's or but's about it. if i take care of my country...my family would be taken care of.

it's called sacrifice. sadly, we have forgotten the definition of that word in this country.

are you done? because i am.

[SuperBran]

yes i would. although...extremely difficult...if it was mandatory i would go.

the way i look at it is this... IF it did come to that point...my/our country would need us...no if's, and's or but's about it. if i take care of my country...my family would be taken care of.

it's called sacrifice. sadly, we have forgotten the definition of that word in this country.

are you done? because i am.

i'm not trying to attack you. i'm just trying to figure out your train of thought.

you say that you would support mandatory service, which leads me to believe you are willing to enter the service and fight for your country.

when i push you to find out why you aren't signing up now and serve your country, as you believe people should be forced to do, you give the excuse that your family is your primary obligation and so you don't want to serve your country at this time.......

therefore, you're basically saying that you're not willing to volunteer on your own, but you would support the government forcing you to sign up.....so you won't step up and do it on your own, but you'll serve if forced to do so. i've got news for you....if we were forced to serve, we would have no choice but to go. MANY people feel the way you do....they'll go if forced, but won't volunteer....yet those people aren't screaming for mandatory service.

please keep in mind that there's a difference in saying that people should be forced to serve when absolutely needed and that people should be forced to serve a mandatory service whether needed or not.

if you're willing to serve when your country truly needs you, then why not serve now? afterall, is our country not at war?

you talk about sacrifice. why not make the sacrifices you speak of and serve right now? why not sacrifice seeing your family to fight for our country? you say that our country has forgotten the definition of the word 'sacrifice'. i think you're one of them.

[Seeker]

what a simplistic view seeker. i guess no one who's ever played sports, been involved in politics, etc... should keep their opinion's to themselves. thanks for sharing your thoughts on who you'd rather hear opinions from...moderator.

so what if an individual hasn't served in the military. their opinion matters less? you don't think for one minute, that (me in particuar) doesn't know what a sacrifice it is to join... you're out of your mind.


the fact of the matter is this -- our society and world has degenerated to a point where we are weak from the inside and we have enemies all around. if we don't build our military up...and show discipline among the ranks we will NOT be enjoying the same prosperity 10, 15 or 20 years from now.

Some things in life are simple truths.

There is no valid comparison between playing in sports or being in politics and sending your son to die or worse fighting in someone else's civil war.

Of course you know the "sacrifice to join".
I'm talking about you your kid coming home in a box because of poor , senseless decisions being made by people that are sitting somewhere safe.

And why the "moderator" cheap shot?
That is a red herring comment to throw in at the beginning or your response.
FYI, it tends to invalidate what follows.

:vconst:

[MR EMPTY PANTS]

Rangel's PR stunt of asking to bring back the draft did not occur in a vacuum or as part of any official Democratic strategy. I see Rangel's call to reinstate the draft as a direct response to the comments of Henry Kissinger and Sen John McCain's last week.

Kissinger said the war in Iraq is unwinnable. McCain then said that the US should send "many more" soldiers to Iraq to ensure victory there. Rangel's reply seems to me a way to raise McCain's bet or call his bluff. The army, reserves and National Guard are about played out due to the severe demands made of them in Iraq. Where would the "many more" soldiers come from? Recruiting quotas in all service branches have been met recently only because the standards have been drastically lowered.

I think Rangel is making the point that if a draft lottery has the potential to pick anyone's son or daughter, policy makers may be more discerning when it comes to calling for their blood and sacrifice. We're at war right now, a deadly serious war, but except for some jingoism, talk radio warriors and great-looking yellow bumper stickers, you couldn't tell it from any other sacrifical behavior of the average American.

Rangel's comments will at least get people talking about serious issues. Maybe even Congress will ask a few questions before being blindly led down another wrong path, carelessly and casually putting our service men and women in harm's way without being certain that is the correct course of action.

BTW - if McCain runs for Prez again, I'll vote for him in a second. A true conservative Republican, not a neo-con fakejob.

lmao, mccain a true conservative, not in your lifetime, he`s so weak. the only true conservative is miss coulter and she`s not running.

[werperry]

Some things in life are simple truths.

There is no valid comparison between playing in sports or being in politics and sending your son to die or worse fighting in someone else's civil war.

Of course you know the "sacrifice to join".
I'm talking about you your kid coming home in a box because of poor , senseless decisions being made by people that are sitting somewhere safe.

And why the "moderator" cheap shot?
That is a red herring comment to throw in at the beginning or your response.
FYI, it tends to invalidate what follows.

:vconst:


no one in the right mind would compare war to sports and politics.... but, that's what i WASN'T doing. i was comparing the fact that people have OPINIONS on certain things...war, sports, politics. there IS a difference seeker. and despite YOUR opinion on who should...and shouldn't express opinions... non-vets WILL continue to express feelings about war. sorry if you don't agree...

as far as my kid. i can't answer that... i don't have kids. God willing here soon i will... but, as i raise my kids i will do my best to instill God, country and family...and if he or she enters the military it would be a proud day for my family....draft or no-draft.

yes, moderator it was a cheap shot.

[Seeker]

... non-vets WILL continue to express feelings about war. sorry if you don't agree....

Still missing the point. The title of this thread is "Draft?".
It is not "War?".

This is not about war, enlisting, serving your country with sacrifice, etc.
Please get a grip on this.

This is about a draft...it is about conscription.

The ONLY reason that a draft is being suggested is that the Doves think that we will be less prone to go to war in the future if more federal leaders' kids and friends are likely to be put in danger.

If we are going to discuss a draft, it should be discussed in the framework of whether or not it makes sense for our military. (Which, by the way, it doesn't.)

It has absolutely nothing to do with patriotism or being proud to serve your country.

When I said that the only people who should express an opinion are people that would be directly affected, I meant it only in the area of whether or not they should be 'patriotic", willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, etc.
It's like the trailer park people who say things like "If I was in your shoes this is what I would do."
Bullcrap tacos.
My response is always "You are not in my shoes, so STFU."

I am merely suggesting that we show the same respect to young men of draft age and their parents.

On the general subject of the draft, however, we should all have an opinion and discuss it...because it's stupid and the motives behind it are just plain BS.


:vconst: