Kissinger: Iraq military win impossible

[obie7661]

"Military victory is no longer possible in Iraq, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said in a television interview broadcast Sunday.

Kissinger presented a bleak vision of Iraq, saying the U.S. government must enter into dialogue with Iraq's regional neighbors - including Iran - if progress is to be made in the region..."

Here's link: http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/breaking_news/16054550.htm

[Obie Wan]

I'm not familiar with Kissinger's military training and experience. Can anyone provide it?

[Fats]

I'm not familiar with Kissinger's military training and experience. Can anyone provide it?

Sec. of State 1973 - 1977
Asst. to President for NSA 1969 - 1975

Expert on U. S. Foreign Policy

Nobel Peace Prize 1973

Republican

When the ISG / Baker lead group come out with their report, you will hear more of this. The Bush war is not winnable militarily.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Good job Fats!

His experience makes Donald Rumsfeld look like he's qualified to be a Cub Scout leader. But I promise you I'd never let my son be lead into the woods by the idiot!

[liner]

..........

.........we americans do not need the advice of experts as long as we can read and listen to free press,media or whatever you wish to call it......and you can hear the news to the right on fox,left on others and conclude for yourself...it seems shep smith is at the top for just giving pure news and letting us decide.....most of the morning shows abc,nbc,cbc and fox and friends are a waste of time for me
.....
.......i cannot understand my man mccain's latest hawkish stand on iraq..i love john and admit i am only pro war as at last resort because of nam but where he sees a victory i see another slippery slope.......my own conclusion is iraq grows worse on a monthly basis with the present plan or lack of.....i want to see jim baker have some serious influence in this mess

[Obie Wan]

Sec. of State 1973 - 1977
Asst. to President for NSA 1969 - 1975

Expert on U. S. Foreign Policy

Nobel Peace Prize 1973
Those are diplomatic credentials. I asked for his military experience.

The Bush war is not winnable militarily.
For that matter, what's your military experience?

[CarlE]

Well, unfortunately, Wan when anybody that actually HAS military experience, i.e. numerous former Generals says the same thing nobody listens to them. I guess they figured that if probably the best-known, experienced foreign diplomat of your lifetime said it, that people would actually sit up and take notice. So, now that Generals AND Kissinger have said it, this is STILL not good enough for some of you. I don't know WHAT to do next. I guess I'll just sit back and shake my head.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I think there's only person that should be relied upon to get Dubya out of this mess and I'm here to tell you who it is, and why he's the man!

Obie Wan!

I'm not sure he has the kind of military resume that he would require of others that have an opinion on the matter, but I'm certain he has the diplomatic qualifications to end this "war"!

How can I be so certain? He displays his unmatched diplomatic skills on here every day with his vast vocabulary, his expectations of competence, his demands for accountability, and his uncanny ability to spin the truth on every issue!

Even though he was unhappy with the mid-terms, and the fact that this President and his administration will now be required to be accountable for their actions (like every other American), he's slowly showing that that he really does expect accountability and competence when by asking about Mr. Kissinger's qualifications! Lol

You go boy!

[Obie Wan]

I think Iraq is very winnable militarily. Obviously, there is the extreme of nuclear obliteration. That's a military solution, and it would end most of the fighting. From a literal standpoint, then, it's obvious that those who say it's impossible are wrong.

From a practical standpoint, it's a little more complicated. The way I see it, soldiers are trained to do one thing: kill. So, let them do their jobs. Let them destroy the Mahdi Army (for instance) without quarter and without reservation.

OTOH, if the overreaching principle of the entire operation is to limit casualties and collateral damage, we're wasting our time. People die in war. It's sad, but it happens. A lot fewer will die in the long run if a whole bunch die now. I don't like the way that sounds, either, but that's the reality of the situation.

Look, Saddam "held the country together" (for lack of a better term), so it's very clear that this is not an insurmountable problem. The problem is on our end: do we have the guts and the will to do what we need to do to make that happen? That's a political issue - it has nothing to do with military capability.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

That eloquent and well thought out post is exactly why I'm promoting Mr. Obie Wan for the job of Secretary of Defense!

I'll be sending my nomination of Mr. Wan to George W. Bush immediately! Lets just hope he's clear minded enough to consider my nominee!

[liner]

I think Iraq is very winnable militarily. Obviously, there is the extreme of nuclear obliteration. That's a military solution, and it would end most of the fighting. From a literal standpoint, then, it's obvious that those who say it's impossible are wrong.

From a practical standpoint, it's a little more complicated. The way I see it, soldiers are trained to do one thing: kill. So, let them do their jobs. Let them destroy the Mahdi Army (for instance) without quarter and without reservation.

OTOH, if the overreaching principle of the entire operation is to limit casualties and collateral damage, we're wasting our time. People die in war. It's sad, but it happens. A lot fewer will die in the long run if a whole bunch die now. I don't like the way that sounds, either, but that's the reality of the situation.

Look, Saddam "held the country together" (for lack of a better term), so it's very clear that this is not an insurmountable problem. The problem is on our end: do we have the guts and the will to do what we need to do to make that happen? That's a political issue - it has nothing to do with military capability.........

.........did you read about the 3rd generation army mp office whose goal is now just to get her charges home alive?...there are many other officers and nco's who are the same but probably will not publicly admit it.......ok so they are trained to kill and do their mission....this is fine but it does not dehumanize them....there are those men that can except war with little emotion but they are the minority in my experience first hand and conversing with other vets.......i just hope the mental damage is limited in iraq and i think uncle sam is spending more time checking vets for pts then any other u.s. war in our history........
.........you can train till the cows come home but it is still a surreal situation for all invovled......collateral damage will always happen but that can eat at men also as years pass.....from the vets i have spoken with from 3 wars the vast majority of them agree it gets down to wanting to go home alive and the same for your buddies.....i cannot speak of the morale in iraq because i am not there but give this some thought,imagine driving on roads everyday that have bombs planted in them...imagine working with and training home country allies that are divided by sect and really don't want to help you...imagine going months without really relaxing.....then imagine doing a great job but having a secound or 3rd tour to do....these guys like all american soldiers have always done are doing a great job......

........i suggest the book "once an eagle" by anton myrer ,while it is fiction it has actually been used in military schools....it was written about the life of an army officer by a combat marine vet of ww2 and is about as honest as it gets......and thank god i never went through what the author did to gain this much combat knowledge.....
i paraphrase the author...there is honor and courage in war but no glory....i agree,glory is a word for athletic events......where am going here?....let's try some diplomacy in the entire middle east as the only military victory possible would be to pull out and nuke the whole region except for the oil wells of course...obie wan is not off base on the total war theory if america wants that.....seems like a waste of many humans to me

[marlow]

I think Iraq is very winnable militarily. Obviously, there is the extreme of nuclear obliteration. That's a military solution, and it would end most of the fighting. From a literal standpoint, then, it's obvious that those who say it's impossible are wrong.

From a practical standpoint, it's a little more complicated. The way I see it, soldiers are trained to do one thing: kill. So, let them do their jobs. Let them destroy the Mahdi Army (for instance) without quarter and without reservation.

OTOH, if the overreaching principle of the entire operation is to limit casualties and collateral damage, we're wasting our time. People die in war. It's sad, but it happens. A lot fewer will die in the long run if a whole bunch die now. I don't like the way that sounds, either, but that's the reality of the situation.

Look, Saddam "held the country together" (for lack of a better term), so it's very clear that this is not an insurmountable problem. The problem is on our end: do we have the guts and the will to do what we need to do to make that happen? That's a political issue - it has nothing to do with military capability.


semantics. its over. bring the boys home now.

Bush's war will go down as the largest international policy failure of all time. The only question that remains is how many members of his administration will go to prison for deceiving the country into war.

In addition, it is quite humorous how you imply that Kissinger is not "military enough". Are you familiar with his uberhawkish positions during Vietnam? The barbaric bombing of North Vietnam and Cambodia? I would think a war monger of this stature is right up your alley.

[Obie Wan]

semantics.
You don't know what the word means.

Bush's war will go down as the largest international policy failure of all time.
A real history scholar you are. Ever hear of the Spanish Armada? Napolean's invasion of Russia? Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler?

I'd love to hear your comparisons.

The only question that remains is how many members of his administration will go to prison for deceiving the country into war.
None. Except for maybe John Kerry.

In addition, it is quite humorous how you imply that Kissinger is not "military enough". Are you familiar with his uberhawkish positions during Vietnam?
You mean like the Paris Peace Talks?

The barbaric bombing of North Vietnam and Cambodia?
Yes, you're right. How silly of us to bomb enemy bases.

I would think a war monger of this stature is right up your alley.
And I would think a moron of any stature is right up yours.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Are you reading what this guy has say to folks?

This is exactly why I'm personally promoting him for Sec. of Defense!

I'm probably the only person in his entire life that has ever put him in his place, embarrassed him beyond belief in front of his harem of swine and demanded an apology that even I know he doesn't have the nads to make!

He's a real scholar of all he professes to know! :smartass:

BTW! When was it that John Kerry was in Dubyas administration?

May the force be with you Wan

[Fats]

Those are diplomatic credentials. I asked for his military experience.


For that matter, what's your military experience?

I am a veteran. Look even the generals of this army have come out to say that we can not win this militarily. I guess if you read and listen, you do not need a military background to understand that this is not a war on terrorism but a sectarian battle. (In the long history of Iraq they have never had a civil war.) The Iraqis have had been give longer than we were involved in WWII. It is time for them to stand up. I know we (ask Colin Powell said) you break you bought it. We did break it. We need to start talking with other countries in this area who can help in this matter. Iran, Syria, etc. We need to tell the Iraqis, we will no longer be in the lead, you wanted freedom, now you must stand up and fight for your freedom and die for it. Take off your partisan glasses and just look at the facts. We need to not Stay the Course but to find a plan that will get our brave soldiers home. If you think this war is a just war then Sign up or send your kids.