We are a Powerhouse

[Fats]

With the debate over Div. I or Div. II, it seems to me that maybe the posters who favor Div. II just may be the same that say we should join the FEd. But, that is a different thread. FOR those who say that OUR TIGER Program is not one of the elites of the state or nation, I strongly disagree. A program can not be judge only by state titles, only one team a year can win that. Lets look at the facts. In the 1980's our record was 81-27-1 . In
the 1990's our record 77-31, and so far in the 2000's our record 52-22(with more wins to come). Attendance in the 80's- 875,657 - 90's- 876,706 and
in the 00-05- 413,952. Coaches records Currence(79-16-2) 1976-84; Maranto(20-10) 85-87 ; Owens (35-13) 88-91
Rose (48-17) 92-97; Shepas (53-28) 98-04 and Stacy (13-2) 05.
Our program has been at the top of the state for the last 25 years(not counting our greatness in the 40's 50's 60's 70's(I do not want to be accused of living in the past).
We all know what we have done recently Final 4's and a State championship game. All of this needs to be looked at when some of you say this Tiger Program is not an elite. We have over the years and especially recently have proven that WE ARE MASSILLON.

[scottyotc]

exactly

[mmauthor]

Good post Fats. We won 80 games in the '90s, though!

[DAWGH8R]

We get more out of less, than anyone. PERIOD !!

We WERE a powerhouse in the 40's , 50's and 60's. A powerhouse ownsand demoralizes teams. We did that.

Recent powerhouses, IMO, have been: Moeller in the late 70's , early 80's, Iggy in the 90's.

To be a powerhouse, we MUST be able to beat these sort of teams , year in and year out. We've beaten Iggy 1 time, and it took all we had.

Moeller owned us for years.

Will we ever be a powerhouse again?? I don't know. Is it because our teams aren't as good as the past???

HELL NO !!!

It is because some schools have been afforded the opportunity to BUILD all-star caliber teams.

Massillon hasn't changed in 50 years. We have blue collar, hard working, students of the game. They give 110% every day , to be a Tiger.

This was enough to build a POWERHOUSE program for MANY years. However, we are being hoodwinked by the system.

Are the teams we had in '91 , '99, 02 and 05 powerhouse taems ????

In Massillon terms, YES !!! But , in overall Ohio high school football, they weren't enough.

Forty years ago, any one of those teams could have gone 10-0, and EASILY been awarded the State Title, with very little resistance.

I love my Massiilon Tigers, and I love the competition, and the way I feel when we knock off a Big Private school, but in todays Ohio Football, we are definately the minoraty.

Until the rules change, or the playing field levels, we will always be the David of D1 Ohio football.

[mmauthor]

I might add to DAWGH8R's post that we were a powerhouse in the '30s also---5 state titles ('35-'39). Just for fun...5 state titles in the '40s, 6 state titles in the '50s, 4 state titles in the 60s, one state title in the 70s, one state title in the 20s.

[ChronicTiger]

Great Stuff everyone........

:thumbsup:

[TigerVic]

Don't forget the 1916 team, who would have been state champs had there been a system for deciding!

Speaking for fellow TTT posters, I apologize to any '16 team members who might have been offended by the above omissions.

[mmauthor]

Vic:

Good point about the 1916 team (our first 10-0 team!). But let's not offend any alumni of the great 1909 team (9-0-1) who also had some claims to the state title!

[HDTiger]

It's amazing to me for years to have watched fans change their own minds, on what is best to make them selves feel good. To drop from division 1 to 2 what the heck are you thinking????? Ask a player past, present, and future if he would want to strive for a title, legacy from not playing the best and strongest teams in the state and maybe the nation. I do think of the past and the great teams and players alot and respect what they have taught us and have placed at our feet to keep and cherish not to distroy and dismantel. So think, what division 2,3,4,5,and 6 teams bring to the table. There are many different brands of football, the elite should want to play the best and nothing less. One more thing you talk of the past how we think we were so great well we were, if you look back Massillon is the cradle to most of stark county football............jackson, perry, tuslaw, fairless were all part of our school district so enough said...........

[DAWGH8R]

I think that Perry , Jackson, Tuslaw etc have been around for quite some time. What has only been around for 30 years is the emergence of the Private powers. Moeller in the 70's and 80's, Iggy in the 90's, and the Cincy monsters of the 00's.

Our program isn't regressing, the others have found a way to finally compete with us.

[shortbev]

that may be true that jackson, etc have been around for a while...it has only been the recent years that any of those programs did anything in football...the development and building of jackson came with their "new" high school back in the late 1970's. that is when building out in jackson township became the "in" thing to do...

we moved to findlay in early 1980...and each time i came back home the new homes and development between canton and massillon was unbelievable...

and

i think the reason for the rivalry between all those schools isn't because of football or sports...but because of the attitude massillon had back when i was in school towards those other schools...there was a definate snobbery (that probably is being seen in reverse these days)...those other schools were considered the "farm" schools or "country kids"...

[TigerVic]

Would we have opportunities to play in classics such as the Herbstreit if we were Div. II?

Also, because we would have less computer points to offer, would big-time Div. I teams have less incentive to play us?

[Obie Wan]

Would we have opportunities to play in classics such as the Herbstreit if we were Div. II?
Mebbe, mebbe not. Would we have the opportunity if we went 4-6 the previous year?

Also, because we would have less computer points to offer, would big-time Div. I teams have less incentive to play us?
That difference would be so small as to be irrelevant. McKinley got 6.4 points from beating us last year (.6 level 1, 5.8 level 2). Had we been DII, they would have gotten 6.35 points. Would a team turn away for .05 points?

Most of the "big-time" schools play us for one of two reasons: they're traditional rivals (McKinley, Warren), or, like us, they have a hard time filling the schedule (Moeller, Ignatius). Dropping to DII won't affect either of those situations.

[ChronicTiger]

Mebbe, mebbe not. Would we have the opportunity if we went 4-6 the previous year?

If you went 4-6 the previous year I dont think it matters what division you play in.......Also, Any DII state champs being invited to play in this event?

[Fats]

From the article by TigerDon. It proves our Program has not fallen.

"4. Massillon - Although the Tigers have never won a playoff state title, they advanced in the final game three times (1980, 1982 and 2006) and their nine regional trophies is the third most of any big school. In fact, Massillon has claimed the bracket crown three times in the past five years, tops among all schools. They have 23 playoff appearances, a success rate of 68%, 78% since 1979."
So for all the posters who have stated we can not play with the Big boys I beg to differ.
I still think some of the motive for this talk is a plan to move fans to the thinking that we need to be in the FED. The FACT above shows where are program is compared to many others across the state.
WE ARE MASSILLON.

[Obie Wan]

If you went 4-6 the previous year I dont think it matters what division you play in.......Also, Any DII state champs being invited to play in this event?
Texas High (who is playing Findlay) is not in Texas' largest classification. So yeah, "DII" schools can play in the Herbie.

Think about this for a minute. Do you really think that the organizers would choose a team like DI Findlay over DII Massillon?

[DAWGH8R]

The name MASSILLON will always be a draw, because of the fan base.

Would you rather have D1 Hoover,bring 500 fans, or DII Massillon that brings 5,000 fans ?????

No matter what division we are, we will always be " THE SHOW" !!

[ChronicTiger]

Texas High (who is playing Findlay) is not in Texas' largest classification. So yeah, "DII" schools can play in the Herbie.

Think about this for a minute. Do you really think that the organizers would choose a team like DI Findlay over DII Massillon?

Would they be considered DI in Ohio? I doubt it! So they are DI in my book.....

They took DI Findlay over last years DII state champ, so to answer your question, I think they would take any top DI team over DII massillon.........But its speculation, you dont know, nor does anyone else.....

People were hyping up The Big Red history and tradition on another thread, I dont see them getting any invites......

:scratchchin:

[Obie Wan]

Would they be considered DI in Ohio? I doubt it! So they are DI in my book.....
You view them as a DI school even you don't think they would be DI in Ohio? You care to explain that reasoning?

They took DI Findlay over last years DII state champ, so to answer your question, I think they would take any top DI team over DII massillon.........
You mean the defending DII state champs that have a league game in week 4? There's a reason that the Herbie is moving to week 2 next year, ya know...

You might also note that Massillon will be a DII school next year, regardless of which playoff bracket they choose. And if you really were paying attention, you'd know that ECA (who is playing next year) is a Louisiana DIII school.

So, yeah, it looks like smaller schools can and do get the invites.

[ChronicTiger]

You view them as a DI school even you don't think they would be DI in Ohio? You care to explain that reasoning?


You mean the defending DII state champs that have a league game in week 4? There's a reason that the Herbie is moving to week 2 next year, ya know...

You might also note that Massillon will be a DII school next year, regardless of which playoff bracket they choose. And if you really were paying attention, you'd know that ECA (who is playing next year) is a Louisiana DIII school.

So, yeah, it looks like smaller schools can and do get the invites.

Which smaller Ohio schools are being invited to these events?

typo. I think they would be considered DI in Ohio.......so is it a small school by our standards?

A DII Ohio team will play in the herbie next year? Who?

What is the enrollment of ECA, Would they be DI in Ohio?

:huh:

[Obie Wan]

Which smaller Ohio schools are being invited to these events?
Massillon.

A DII Ohio team will play in the herbie next year? Who?
Massillon.

What is the enrollment of ECA, Would they be DI in Ohio?
I don't know the exact enrollment in grades 9-12, but they have 630 students in grades 1-12. The last class for which they published numbers was 2001; they graduated "over 100". It's a co-ed school, so let's assume a 50-50 split. 100 kids per class, that's 150 boys in grades 10-12. In Ohio, that's a D5.

[ChronicTiger]

Massillon.


Massillon.


I don't know the exact enrollment in grades 9-12, but they have 630 students in grades 1-12. The last class for which they published numbers was 2001; they graduated "over 100". It's a co-ed school, so let's assume a 50-50 split. 100 kids per class, that's 150 boys in grades 10-12. In Ohio, that's a D5.

hahahaha.....

good answers.......

Any DII Ohio schools ever been to one of these types of things?

Thats what I was talking about when I said "smaller schools"..........

What is the reason the herbie is being moved to week two next year?

Of course massillon was already signed up for this thing prior to the news of being classified as DII next year........Do you see massillon being invited in future?

I suspect they may like our stadium so much it may take place at our place sometime in the future BUT will we be playing?

:thumbsup:

[Obie Wan]

What is the reason the herbie is being moved to week two next year?
More schools are available early in the year. Look at McKinley: they couldn't participate this year because they had a league game in week 4. The only way that St. Ed and Elder got in is because they were scheduled to play each other in week 4. They moved that game to next year.

Of course massillon was already signed up for this thing prior to the news of being classified as DII next year........Do you see massillon being invited in future?
I would think that depends entirely on how the Tigers do on the field and in the stands. If all the people who are saying that DII is for losers were to stop buying tickets, we may not have enough fan support to justify an invite.

I suspect they may like our stadium so much it may take place at our place sometime in the future BUT will we be playing?
I doubt they'll be playing here if we're not in it. Remember, they're moving to Fawcett next year.

In any event, I suspect that these events may soon lose their appeal as they become more common. It may well be that Massillon would be better off with a home-and-home against a school like Elder than with two years in some Braggart Bowl.

[ChronicTiger]

More schools are available early in the year. Look at McKinley: they couldn't participate this year because they had a league game in week 4. The only way that St. Ed and Elder got in is because they were scheduled to play each other in week 4. They moved that game to next year.


You made it seem as if it had something to do with the 2005 DII State Champ......does it?

:suspect:

[DAWGH8R]

I agree with a "high profile" home and home vs a Classic type of venue.
:thumbsup:

[Obie Wan]

You made it seem as if it had something to do with the 2005 DII State Champ......does it?
The error is one of inference, not implication. :poke:

The fact is that the 2005 DII champ was not available to play in the Herbie this year because they have a league game in week 4. The fact also remains that the same school will not have a league game in week 2 next year. Was that a factor in the decision to reschedule the event? Yes, it was - because Toledo CC is certainly a good example of a good team that was immediately precluded from consideration because of the date.

[xtiger]

Of course massillon was already signed up for this thing prior to the news of being classified as DII next year........Do you see massillon being invited in future? Quote from ChronicTiger





Are you kidding? After the spanking we give Arizona.....They'll be begging us!:rockin:

[tiger4life]

We get more out of less, than anyone. PERIOD !!

dude, that is a FACT.