Smoking bans-do they work?

[Swissie]

When I say work, I mean do you think that they encourage the smoking public to smoke less or even quit? I was asked this question Saturday night at a party (as the only American there, some people think I am an authority on everything US! LOL!). Smoking bans are becoming common in a lot of places here in Europe, which is surprising (to me) as I thought it was simply the European way (too many movies depicting the Russians, Greeks and Frenchies as heavy smokers I guess). Here in Swissieland you can no longer smoke in the trains (used to have at least 2 smokers cars in the past) or public buildings and many restaurants, shopping centers and private companies are invoking this ban, also. Does this work or are smokers just finding a way around the ban (ie., staying at home, walking outside of the restaurant/bar to light up, etc.). And does this hurt business? Would love to hear your thoughts....

thanks,

Swissie

[longtimefirsttime]

I will have to give more thought to this issue (in depth thought at this hour of night is not always possible). However here are a few links related to the subject from varying viewpoints.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]


[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Obie Wan]

It's hard to say if there's a causal relationship or not, but smoking is on the decrease almost everywhere that has some kind of comprehensive ban in place. Of course, it's on the decrease almost everywhere else, too.

Of more immediate interest, most evidence indicates that bars and restaurants actually do more business after a smoking ban is enacted. There is usually a lot of complaining by the smokers, followed by a steady increase in business as the non-smokers come in more often and stay longer.

[Munson]

Florida has a statewide ban. I know when I am visiting relatives there that it is nice to go into any restaurant and not worry about where the separated seating sections are.

[longtimefirsttime]

It's an addiction so I don't think it will be a deterrent for existing smokers. I
tend to believe smokers are going to continue to do it where they can (whether it be at home, a casino, in the car on the way to a restaurant or outside). However the bans, along with the ever increasing costs of cigarettes, should have an impact on future generations. Are there any business owners here who can provide further insight on the other facet of this issue?

[Smitty]

I'm temporarily living / working on the border between two states: Washington does not allow smoking in any public building, similar to California law. Idaho, on the other hand, doesn't have this smoking ban law.

Guess which side of the border I'm on, on a Saturday night, with a 7" cigar and 2-fingers of tequilla.

:doh:

[angfento]

In Oklahoma they just passed a ban on smoking in all restaurants that are primarily a restaurant... so if it's a bar & grill you can smoke, but Hooters is non smoking now! I'm pretty happy about that! My husband & I definitely go out to eat more now that we can enjoy our meal without reaking of smoke when we leave... stinking up our cars & house.

I don't think it does anything to deter people from smoking, they just don't eat out as much I would imagine!

I think the law is mostly designed for those who like to breathe while they eat!

[Swissie]

Thank you! lots of great replies. As an un-reformed smoker (is that a word?) I have to say that I also enjoy going out to dinner and not have to worry about the guy next to me lighting up a cigar while I am trying to enjoy my main dish. Restaurants here are more geared toward dining so when you go out to eat you can find yourself sitting there for about 3 hours. More than enough time to inhale some serious unwanted smoke. We don't smoke in our house, cars or anywhere around our kids, so why would we want to do it in a restaurant? Going outside to light up is not a problem, although I may change my tune when winter weather sets in! But I definitely feel that I smoke less even by setting my own limitations.

Thanks again and please by all means add your 2 cents!

LTFT, thanks for the links. I am wondering how much on each side is biased, depending on which side of the fence they are standing on.

Obie Wan, that is interesting info, and it makes sense. I haven't read anything about public trans sales falling due to this ban, so apparently it is not such an inconvenience that it makes more people commute in their own vehicles as opposed to the non-smoking trains and buses. Much nicer to jump on a train these days and not have to hold your breathe to walk through the smoking cars in search of a seat!

[Smitty]

... I am wondering how much on each side is biased....

OHHH, you asked!!

Those who support the ban of smoking in public do NOT have science on their side. Sorry. They publish "press releases" and the like... but true research as published in the main-stream medical journals contradicts their position.

I cite the following article: "Multi- Center Case-Control Study of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke and Lung Cancer in Europe", published in the J Natl Cancer Inst., vol 90 (1998), pp 1440-50.

It REFUTES the concept that "second-hand" smoke causes ANY of the diseases claimed (eg, cancer, heart disease, vascular disease).

Yes, direct use of tobacco (cigarettes & chew) is grossly un-healthy; but this whole frikkin' concept of "second-hand" smoke is all bull$#it.

:weightlift:

PS: There is no such thing as "global warming".

[angfento]

Sorry Smitty,

I'm usually on your side but this time I just can't be!

The American Lung Association and many other medical communities have done extensive research on second hand smoke! Your article is 8 years old for one!
Here is a bit from the follwing website...
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet
March 2006

Secondhand smoke, also know as environmental tobacco smoke, is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. It is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbate a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.1

Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).2
Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths and 35,000-62,000 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.



AND.....from the National Cancer Institute

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Secondhand smoke exposure is a known risk factor for lung cancer (1, 3, 4, 6, 7). Approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths occur each year among adult nonsmokers in the United States as a result of exposure to secondhand smoke (2). Secondhand smoke is also linked to nasal sinus cancer (1, 4). Some research suggests an association between secondhand smoke and cancers of the cervix, breast, and bladder. However, more research is needed in order to confirm a link to these cancers (3, 4, 8).

Secondhand smoke is also associated with the following noncancerous conditions:

Chronic coughing, phlegm, and wheezing (4, 6).
Chest discomfort (4).
Lowered lung function (4, 6).
Severe lower respiratory tract infections, such as bronchitis or pneumonia, in children (4, 6).
More severe asthma and increased chance of developing asthma in children (6).
Eye and nose irritation (4).
Severe and chronic heart disease (4).
Middle ear infections in children (4, 6).
Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) (4).
Low birthweight or small size at birth for babies of women exposed to secondhand smoke during pregnancy (4).

[RAPTOR]

Well they dont allow sex in public places, but i dont think that stops people from having it when their not in public places. So to answer your question. No i dont think not allowing smoking in public places will but in end to people smoking. Am i allowed to say sex on this site?

[Smitty]

...Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet
March 2006....

Again, there is a BIG difference between scientific research as published in peer-reviewed journals and "press releases".

Also: look behind the "statistics" that are quoted in these press releases by the EPA and other political groups. They'll state things like, "... research has shown people exposed to second-hand smoke are four (4) times more likely..."

:ohno:

Yes... the statistics for the "non-exposed" group is 1:2,000,000... and the statistics for the "exposed" group is 1:500,000... yup, a difference of 4. So sorry, but it's NOT statistically significant.

(Did y'all take that class on research design and statistics in college? IF not, STFU. IF so, you know what a "chi-square" table is and that I'm right.)

The EPA has a political agenda and is LYING to us.

[austinsm11]

I always liked when people compared a no smoking section in a restaurant to a no pee section at a swimming pool. One place I worked at downtown had a small curtain to seperated the smoking and nonsmoking. Tables were probably on 10 feet away from each other with this small curtain that didn't even extend all the way to the ceiling or anything supposed keep the smoke contained.

I personally think that second hand smoke can cause problems. Will someone die of lung cancer from second hand smoke who is hardly around it except at a restaurant or public place? Probably not...but why should they have to breath it and get it in their food?

My dad smoked all the time. Car rides were terrible. I was always sick with bronchitis or other respiratory problems. I can't say or prove it was all because of him smoking, but I am sure it didn't help.

[calcm]

As a reformed smoker who quit in 1982 and aside from the health issue, I'm glad I did. I never knew how BAD my clothing, car and house smelled until I quit. Now when we go out to eat if by some chance we wander into a new (to us) restaurant that allows smoking, that's the first and last time they see us. Now when we visit a nonsmoking restaurant, we try to find the manager to thank them for providing a good clean atmosphere.

I'm hoping we get to vote on a smoking ban in Ohio. Those who support a ban should remember it's SmokeFree Ohio

NOT SmokeLess Ohio,

SmokeLess Ohio is backed by RJ Reynolds and the other tobacco companies who are trying to whitewash the issue in their favor.

[DAWGH8R]

Are you kidding ???? People still smoke in my ROW at the TIGER football games. Some people will NEVER conform !!

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[longtimefirsttime]

I must admit I like the occasional cigar. But that's it...

[Al.]

I must admit I like the occasional cigar. But that's it...

Just don't do it :pimp: sitting in front of me at Mansfield :laughing:

[CarlE]

A couple of examples down here from when they did it in 2004. I hang out at a local watering hole that does not serve food. The owner decided to ban smoking inside anyway when the restaurants did. He lost a lot of his "happy hour" blue collar clientele and business was down for a couple of months. Then a more affluent crowd started coming in and his business is freaking booming now. He owns a liquor store connected to the bar and has now built a real nice wine room there.

Another friend of mine owns an Italian restaurant with a bar hooked to it. Same thing. He suffered greatlly for probably six months and now it is a different set of people that seem to spend more money. So, short term you lose, but long term you win. At least in what I've seen.

[Kamd50]

That makes sense. I know quite a few people, including myself, that gradually quit frequenting a lot of bars and clubs because they just couldn't take that overbearing and unpleasant smell of alcohol and smoke mixed together. There's nothing like going out for a night of socialization and maybe some music and coming home reaking like a dirty ashtray:puke:

I totally agree with you, Calmc, I am in the same boat as you. Smoker's do not really realize how nasty and disgusting the habit is until they quit. I haven't smoked for 26 years and haven't missed it once!

[longtimefirsttime]

Just don't do it :pimp: sitting in front of me at Mansfield :laughing:

:lol:

I put mine out. But guilty by association I guess.

[monte81]

Her in Columbus there is no smoking in resturants, clubs, bars,etc... the bar owners just built decks and balconies to suit the smoking public!! Alot of money is lost during the winter and some places had to close down!! I really dont care but a smoke is good with a double shot of Heny!!

[Flying Tiger]

Like they say:

A smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool!!

[DAWGH8R]

That's funny chit !!!!:oops:

[Al.]

"Smoking helps you lose weight -- one lung at a time!":pimp:

[DAWGH8R]

When I saids that smoking bans don't work, and people in my row at the stadium still smoke, it IS NOT Al.

Just wanted to clarify that! :pimp: :thumbsup: