Division assignments 2007-2008

[Obie Wan]

I totally agree with you about having problems with the Catholic schools. I just don't understand how going to DII will solve this problem.

Here's the theory: It happens that most of the well-known Catholic programs (Elder, Moeller, X, St. Ed, Ignatius, Benedictine, Watterson, De Sales, Hoban) are (or likely will be) in either D1 or D3. The Catholic schools that are or likely will be in D2 (Toledo CC, Toledo St. Francis, La Salle, Padua) don't present near the competitive challenge as their brethren in other divisions.

In other words (and probably just by chance), the private football factories won't be in D2. That could, of course, change as enrollments fluctuate and/or administrative philosophies evolve.

[Grandma Turtle]

EXAMPLE.............Ignatius has app 1100+BOYS .........All boys school competing with Massillon 580 boys app........

Divisions are to make schools play each other with similar enrollments....


D1 = ENROLLMENTS DOUBLING MASSILLONS (cheating) & OPEN-RECRUITING ___________CHEATING........

Massillon plays Schools in D2 that will openly recruit (cheating) but the enrollment will be similar.............

MASSILLON CAN STAND UP TO THOSE ODDS & WIN.......WIN ALOT.

:MrT: My hair is falling out.........No, wait...I'm pulling it out !!!!! :upside:

Are you saying enrollment means nothing? You mentioned Mentors enrollment so you are saying it means nothing I think,.......... Put all the schools together.........1 Football Champ a year........a King of Ohio......is what you want.................cool Call OHSAA AND LET THEM break the news to all the Smaller schools..........11 on the field means 11 on the field....................Everyone play everyone............ DIVISIONS MEANS SQUAT...... every school has 11 players.........If it only has 11 it can still play for the title............everyone has to stay on the field & go both ways . They have a 1 in a Billion chance to win it.............but that means......They got a chance........
so do it, baby, do it..........

:poke:
.................................:poke:

I am officially pulling myself out............ I hope this gets locked & buried & someone starts a fresh one without Granny...............

[ChronicTiger]

I know D2 Cathlic schools are allowed to openly recruit while the publics will be shot by a firing squad if anything even sounds like recruiting was done.

People still come to Massillon to play football. Win a couple State Championships & keep putting our kids in College & they will come to make up for the recruiting of the St. Cheater Schools.

Why do you always insist the catholic schools cheat?

I did not see any firing squad when Zwick, abdul, jordan, et al showed up at massillon. How do you explain that?

We are playing on a level playing field now, just as we have been since the begining of the playoff era............



:thumbsup:

[ChronicTiger]

EXAMPLE.............Ignatius has app 1100+BOYS .........All boys school competing with Massillon 580 boys app........

Divisions are to make schools play each other with similar enrollments....


D1 = ENROLLMENTS DOUBLING MASSILLONS (cheating) & OPEN-RECRUITING ___________CHEATING........

Massillon plays Schools in D2 that will openly recruit (cheating) but the enrollment will be similar.............

MASSILLON CAN STAND UP TO THOSE ODDS & WIN.......WIN ALOT.

My hair is falling out.........No, wait...I'm pulling it out !!!!!

Are you saying enrollment means nothing? You mentioned Mentors enrollment so you are saying it means nothing I think,.......... Put all the schools together.........1 Football Champ a year........a King of Ohio......is what you want.................cool Call OHSAA AND LET THEM break the news to all the Smaller schools..........11 on the field means 11 on the field....................Everyone play everyone............ DIVISIONS MEANS SQUAT...... every school has 11 players.........If it only has 11 it can still play for the title............everyone has to stay on the field & go both ways . They have a 1 in a Billion chance to win it.............but that means......They got a chance........
so do it, baby, do it..........

:poke:
.................................:poke:

I am officially pulling myself out............ I hope this gets locked & buried & someone starts a fresh one without Granny...............

your talking about a small number of schools that double our numbers yet you dont want to mention the scores of DI schools we beat that have higher numbers than us. You cant have it both ways and those schools are not CHEATING! They play within the same rules we do and ALWAYS have!

:cry:

[austinsm11]

Obiewan, I do understand what you mean regarding the catholic powers being in DI or DIII. I just wanted to see if grandma could explain this as part of her argument, but I guess you had to rescue her.

Honestly even though I feel the catholics have had an advantage, I really only felt like one has been problematic for us and has won many more against us that we have one....Iggy (used to be Moeller years ago).

I don't know much about the DII catholics. I think I have heard that Toledo CC is pretty good, could be wrong. I thought I remembered Padua being pretty good, but not sure how they are now.

Even though we could play well at DII and defeat these catholic schools, it only takes one good DII catholic school to keep consistantly beating us, like Iggy, that could keep us from our championship.

ENROLLMENTS DOUBLING MASSILLONS (cheating)
So any school with a larger enrollment is cheating?:wall:
You can blame OHSAA for the big differences in numbers in DI, but how is it the school's fault, especially public schools?

Yes I think enrollment matters to an extent. But, in my opinion, Massillon can hang with anyone, regardless of size. Good football schools can defeat schools with larger enrollments. I don't think that an average DII or DIII school will defeat an average DI school. Please stop blowing what I say way out of proportion and putting words in my mouth. Taking what you said and blowing it out of proportion we must have only beat Dover because we cheated. We have a bigger enrollment so we cheated.


I am officially pulling myself out............ I hope this gets locked & buried & someone starts a fresh one without Granny...............
I don't think anyone is forcing you to continue to read this thread.

[tiger#22]

We are playing on a level playing field now, just as we have been since the begining of the playoff era............



:thumbsup:

That wont happen until that MF leaves.:thumbsup:

[TxTiger]

That's 2-10 up until last year.

[Red50Go]

I feel whether we win 8-10 D-2 titles in the next 35 years, or 1 or 2 in D-1 in the next 35 years, will DO NOTHING to change our standing or reputation in Ohio of all teams, regardless of division. We have had 35 years to prove it, good or bad (I think more good than bad), and that is pretty much cemented. We are a top tier program, regardless of division, nothing more nothing less, and that dont change.

But I am leaning towards what is most fair to the kids. Not Joe Blow who thinks the program is there to serve him, or her.

I like the point someone made about a D-2 team beating Mckinley or some of these other D-1 powers. What a thorn that would be to them. Massillon doesn't get enough credit (from us, OR outsiders) for competing w/ D-1 powers w/ much larger enrollments, and I think its an injustice to our kids.

[Fats]

The discussion is about if if we have a choice between Div. I and Div. II what should we do? If we do not have a choice, then I think every Tiger fan would be Proud of a State Title in Division II. I argue that if WE WON a State Title in Div. II and we had a choice to be in Div. I(in that season) then I think that Div. II State Title would not be the same. WE are Massillon and if we can play Div. I ball then we should.
So it is not about who is a great Tiger fan, it is about who wants to be a Division II program. I think most Tiger fans want to be Division I. One more point, if the Massillon Tigers can not find 40 -50 good football players out of 580 boys something is wrong. This is Massillon Football we can Compete with the best.

[austinsm11]

I'm not sure how one can say "who cares what others think if we play DII."
Then turn around and say the people don't give us enough respect for playing large schools with big enrollments.

Either you care what others think or you don't, you can't be selective.

[monte81]

Why is it pititful? No more pitiful than asking the same question per Paul Brown or any other one of our great Massillon legends. You just don't want to admit that the answer would probably be NO! How about putting the question to recent alums like Crable, Zwick, Jordan, Mcguire, many others....I doubt they would have been happy playing in D2. And please don't presume that you can tell me what to say.

I cannot speak for zwick, crable, and others but i just talked to my brother in Florida and we have come to an McGuire family agreement. No way do the tigers play DII ball! (unless we have no choice) We are the best show in football and should be playing the best competition. We had a few bad seasons in the late 90's and 2 seasons of 4-6 however we are an powerful city with a powerful football team. I have mentioned that in 1988 we had a strong team that was disqualified from the playoffs and were ranked #4 in the state & only lost to the 2 division state champs (warren and St. V's)! 1989 we lost in the semis to Iggy--but were in it! 1991 we fumbled going in to score with 2 minutes in the game leading 12-7! 1999 we stumbled against Perry in 1st round because we were cooky! 2000 to 2002 we were supposed to win it! the defensive calls against Warren (prevent "D" not the missed extra point beat us) The year before against iggy we just got intimidated in the 2nd half and outcoached! last year we just came up short1 it is not the enrollment or the catholic schools! WE BEAT OURSELVES IN THOSE GAMES AND THE TEAMS THAT BEAT US IN 1988 TO 2005 HAVE WON THE "SHIP"! We have a chance the next few years to win it! Keep balling and the trophy will be in massillon this year! # 7, #10, #26 to name a few will "REFUSE TO BR DENIED IN 2006 AND EVERYONE WILL SHUT UP ABOUT WHAT DIVISION WE ARE DELEGATED TO PLAY!!

[TigerLily]

I really think that we should stay DI also.

But, you really can’t say that enrollment at parochial schools does not have any effect. St. Ignatius, St. X, St. Ed’s, Moeller, etc. are always up there. Why? Because they can pretty much get who they want to play for them. I remember sitting up at the Ignatius game and hearing an outright advertisement for students to come to their school. Do you think we could do that? Don’t think so. (And, you’ve probably noticed their one size fits all uniforms?)

Most public schools fluctuate as to the talent they have and are up and down. Now, I say most because some schools, like Massillon can overcome some things -- we have great kids, great coaching, tradition, pride, determination -- an overall fabulous program.

We have shown in the past that we can hang with anybody. And I think we can continue to do so. And yes, we will always have to go through St. (?) to get to the top. So be it. You do what you have to do.

Let’s Go Tigers -- DI State Champs 2006!!!

:tig: :ers:

[MTown]

I don't know if TigerDon has access to this info...but a while ago he wrote a column about our historical success against public schools and also against private schools. I'd like to see those same records be presented along with those schools enrollment numbers. As I remember we still had a dominant record against public schools but struggled against Catholics.

It seems to me that the people advocating DII because of enrollment keep bringing up Catholic schools for comparison and not public schools.

Why is no one saying we can't compete with McKinley, Warren, or Colerain? Or better yet, North Canton, Perry, Jackson, Glenoak, Mentor, Lakewood, or Pickerington. All those schools have a higher enrollment than us with the exception of Pickerington now that they've split.

It seems to me this argument is less about actual enrollment numbers, and more about our ability to compete with Catholic schools on an annual basis.

[ChronicTiger]

I really think that we should stay DI also.

But, you really can’t say that enrollment at parochial schools does not have any effect. St. Ignatius, St. X, St. Ed’s, Moeller, etc. are always up there. Why? Because they can pretty much get who they want to play for them. I remember sitting up at the Ignatius game and hearing an outright advertisement for students to come to their school. Do you think we could do that? Don’t think so. (And, you’ve probably noticed their one size fits all uniforms?)

Most public schools fluctuate as to the talent they have and are up and down. Now, I say most because some schools, like Massillon can overcome some things -- we have great kids, great coaching, tradition, pride, determination -- an overall fabulous program.

We have shown in the past that we can hang with anybody. And I think we can continue to do so. And yes, we will always have to go through St. (?) to get to the top. So be it. You do what you have to do.

Let’s Go Tigers -- DI State Champs 2006!!!

:tig: :ers:

you completely contradict yourself. Is it because they have 1000 boys or is it because they can get anybody they want ?
I dislike the catholic schools cheat attitude......

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

In his seven years at Massillon, Rick Shepas did not fare well against private schools, whereas Tom Stacy is 3-1 against private schools.

In fact, Shepas was 3-12 against Catholic schools. On that note, when Massillon scored 34 or more points under Shepas, they were 29-0.

That 3-12 is easily corrected if they could have scored at least 34 or more...maybe, just maybe they might have had better luck against the private schools.

[DaveDawg]

In his seven years at Massillon, Rick Shepas did not fare well against private schools, whereas Tom Stacy is 3-1 against private schools.

In fact, Shepas was 3-12 against Catholic schools. On that note, when Massillon scored 34 or more points under Shepas, they were 29-0.

That 3-12 is easily corrected if they could have scored at least 34 or more...maybe, just maybe they might have had better luck against the private schools.

UNCLE, UNCLE ------------UNCLE!!!!

[TigerLily]

you completely contradict yourself. Is it because they have 1000 boys or is it because they can get anybody they want ?
I dislike the catholic schools cheat attitude......

You can look at it two ways -- they have a high enrollment on boys (all boys) which drive up the numbers for DI. (Aren’t the divisions based on total enrollment of boys -- not just those participating in sports?) They also have a high number of boys to choose from in all athletics -- not to mention the cream of the crop.

[Kamd50]

:thumbsup: Thank you for the great post Monte81! Now if you could just put that question again to Shawn as you said you talk to him quite frequently. I would like to hear his 2 cents as well. To me, the feelings from present and past players and coaches mean the most. And so far, players that our family has constantly been talking to about this don't want to play D2 in the championship game. I respect opinions such as those, TC's, and yours the most; coming from the ones who actually go out there and play the game. If it is true that some say, it is about the kids, then listen to what they, past and present are saying, not what you "think" would be best for them or what you "think" they want.
And, Monte, we are happy to hear Pooter made captain, he is a very nice kid:thumbsup:

[DAWGH8R]

There is a difference between 1100 pretested , handpicked boys,....versus 580 boys, where:
1. a certain% will drop out
2. a certain% will never attend,or seldom attend classes
3. a certain% is physically or mentally handicapped
4. a certain% has never seen a football
5. a certain% will not be academically eligible
6. a certain% has no athletic ability

We will have to play the hand we are dealt. If that means dropping to DII, then so be it. The Glory days of the 40's, 50's 60's and 70's are gone.

This ain't your Daddy's high school football anymore!!!

If not winning a title in 35 years doesn't make you ask WHY, then you haven't been around long. Things have changed !!

I would love to win a DI title in football, but..........the chips are not in our favor. Hell, even David won once!

[MUCSteelers5xSuperChamp]

DaveDawg,

I just know too much. Too much to the point where someone just might put a gun to my head, who knows. Ok, enough banter.

In 16 years against private schools, Thom McDaniels was 28-19 against private schools. Kerry Hodakievic was 6-2 against private schools. John Miller was 4-2 against private schools and Brian Cross is 0-1.

Since the 1982 season, Canton McKinley is 38-24 against private schools. At one point, the Bulldogs even had a seven-game winning streak against privates between a stretch from 1997-98.

Most of this I know based that I was a three-year sports editor at McKinley. No harm, no foul.

[Smitty]

I don't know if TigerDon has access to this info...but a while ago he wrote a column about our historical success against public schools and also against private schools. I'd like to see those same records be presented along with those schools enrollment numbers. As I remember we still had a dominant record against public schools but struggled against Catholics....

I'd like to see the statistical analysis include a regular-season % vs playoff %.

Our only 2 wins over Moe and 1 over Iggy were in the regular season, not playoffs.

We've had pretty good success vs other Catholic schools IN THE REGULAR SEASON since '72 (Y'town Ursuline, Cin. LaSalle, Tol. St Frances, Walsh Jesuit, Akron St V-St M., et al.); again with Moe & Iggy being exceptions.

It's been the playoff losses that make me wanna :cry: .

[BigTime]

IOn that note, when Massillon scored 34 or more points under Shepas, they were 29-0.

That's nothin'! Since 1894 Massillon is UNDEFEATED when an opponent scores 0 points! Wow!:eek2:

[monte81]

:thumbsup: Thank you for the great post Monte81! Now if you could just put that question again to Shawn as you said you talk to him quite frequently. I would like to hear his 2 cents as well. To me, the feelings from present and past players and coaches mean the most. And so far, players that our family has constantly been talking to about this don't want to play D2 in the championship game. I respect opinions such as those, TC's, and yours the most; coming from the ones who actually go out there and play the game. If it is true that some say, it is about the kids, then listen to what they, past and present are saying, not what you "think" would be best for them or what you "think" they want.
And, Monte, we are happy to hear Pooter made captain, he is a very nice kid:thumbsup:

Thanks Kamd50! I have been there--tigers, college, army and some things i would like to forget but I just want whats best for the kids because i see a decline in athletics, social development, & economic advancement from the youth-- we should be worrying about there academics! It is weird to me that all we talk about is championships and divisions instead of why we have maybe 2 or 3 players (Mcguire & Dailey) out of maybe 7 or 8 potential Division I college players that have qualified academiclly to participate without attending a prep or JC? The players, coaches, and community should be ashamed of that!!!!! It takes more than a championship to be a champion! Lets think about that!!!!! When I played my mother would not allow us to participate if anything did not meet her standards! I had to go to summer school for a "c" in biology my sophomore year or I could not play! Play hard-- Study hard! On other happier notes: Darion really worked hard to improve his game this year I just hope Stacey will let him shine on offense-- he plays every skill position out there!

[MTown]

That's nothin'! Since 1894 Massillon is UNDEFEATED when an opponent scores 0 points! Wow!:eek2:

LOL....a much needed comic relief to this thread.

Coincidentally....we are also undefeated when we outscore our opponents by at least 1 point.

[Kamd50]

Yes, you are soooo right! There should have been way more kids this past season that got offers and didn't because of grades. It is a real shame and sad that so many lacked guidance when it came to their education. I know that some of them wish they could go back and be a little more serious about their grades. It's unfortunate that a lot of kids get to be jrs and srs and only think that it is about having a good time. Hopefully, Stacy and his assists.will be able to have more of positive affect on this and upcoming groups:thumbsup:

[Grandma Turtle]

So any school with a larger enrollment is cheating?:wall:




#1 You can blame OHSAA for the big differences in numbers in DI, but how is it the school's fault, especially public schools?


#2 Yes I think enrollment matters to an extent. But, in my opinion, Massillon can hang with anyone, regardless of size. Good football schools can defeat schools with larger enrollments.



#3 I don't think anyone is forcing you to continue to read this thread.

_____________________________________________



#1 It is just an expression.....The Schools Cheat!!! It's the Wacky OHSAA rules that allow the Parochs to have an unfair advantage. The schools are playing by the wacky rules. The rules they play by are unfair. I said the schools cheat. They don't, but they sure brag about their accomplishments while taking shots at Massillon. The schools don't cheat......THE SCHOOLS DON'T CHEAT :poke:


#2 Would you consider Massillon, "The City of Champions" a good football school? ZERO PLAY-OFF TITLES.... ZERO :poke: in 35 years.


#3 u do:poke:

[austinsm11]

Quote:
Originally Posted by austinsm11

So any school with a larger enrollment is cheating?




#1 You can blame OHSAA for the big differences in numbers in DI, but how is it the school's fault, especially public schools?


#2 Yes I think enrollment matters to an extent. But, in my opinion, Massillon can hang with anyone, regardless of size. Good football schools can defeat schools with larger enrollments.



#3 I don't think anyone is forcing you to continue to read this thread.


_____________________________________________



#1 It is just an expression.....The Schools Cheat!!! It's the Wacky OHSAA rules that allow the Parochs to have an unfair advantage. The schools are playing by the wacky rules. The rules they play by are unfair. I said the schools cheat. They don't, but they sure brag about their accomplishments while taking shots at Massillon. The schools don't cheat......THE SCHOOLS DON'T CHEAT


#2 Would you consider Massillon, "The City of Champions" a good football school? ZERO PLAY-OFF TITLES.... ZERO in 35 years.


#3 u do


1. That is the dumbest thing..."just an expression." How is it just an expression when you call the public schools cheaters when they did nothing wrong, they simply had more kids. Again the problem you are having should be with OHSAA, not with the schools. Then when I ask you you say they don't cheat, its just an expression?:poke: It isn't an expression, it is a lie.

Please tell me our record against McKinley, Glenoak, Mentor, and any other public school with more boys.

2.:wtf: How can you not call Massillon a good football school? Look how close we have come to winning it. Look at our players,tradition, etc.
So if Massillon drops to DII and wins, then will Massillon be a good football schoool, since according to you we are not right now?


3. With comments like your second one (saying Massillon is not a good football school) please do like you said earlier and refrain from commenting.


This debate has been about being able to compete and winning a title in DI versus DII. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but to imply that Massillon is not a good football school is an absolute joke and is insulting!

[Grandma Turtle]

I am in SHOCK .....What kind of Kool-Aid do you drink in North Carolina :jestera: :jestera: :jestera:

Your post is just plain stupid.....!!!:wtf:

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA LMFAO

[austinsm11]

I am all for a debate but you can't back yours up at all. Just like elementary school, I guess. Can't come up with something intelligent so you have to call names.

I am ignorant? I didn't say public DI schools with larger enrollments are cheaters. When I called you out on it you say "its an expression." Umm, ok. Sounds more like a lie to me.I also didn't imply that Massillon was not a good football school like you.

You mentioned that you would not participate in this thread any more, so why are you?

[austinsm11]

:offtopic:
Any more insults? Again, I graduated so calling me names doesn't really bother me.

Please answer these questions.
1. What are McKinley, Mentor, Glen Oak, and any other larger public schools record against Massillon?

2.Would you say that Massillon is not a good football school? Would winning a DII championship all of a sudden make them a good one?

3. Please explain how public schools being larger and calling them cheaters is an expression rather than a lie. Your problem is with OHSAA, so why call these schools cheaters? What did they do wrong?

[tiger74]

we have struggled against some catholics but what other public schools haven't. are we to assume we no longer play good football just because we lose a few games to catholic schools. do you think stuebenville or warren doesn't play good football because they lost alot to massillon.I am going to say NO and that my friends is just how sports is. some teams just have other teams numbers. to have well over 700 wins and not have a good football team sounds just plan stupid. we also have a WINNING playoff record and we have lost to public schools and private in the playoffs.
public loses: perry,marion harding,mckinley,sandusky,brunswick
catholic loses: Iggy,moe,st. xavier,princeton,padua {are they a private?}
those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. yes I realize this is not the past but we still can compete in div1. if not then why have we been to 3 final 4's in five years? {in the expanded playoff system I might add!} it seems most people think we are always going to have a winning record. this is not going to be the case even mckinley had some losing seasons.

[TigerVic]

I don't think this thread will last much longer with personal attacks beginning to avail themselves.

[Obie Wan]

I don't think this thread will last much longer with personal attacks beginning to avail themselves.
Geez, you're sensitive. "Hunk-a-turd" was always a term of endearment in my house. :tounge:

[BigTime]

OMG

How did you graduate?

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

I bet your paycheck is too........:jestera: :jestera: :jestera:

Hummm, we have been missing a certian poster from the great state of Florida who would likely make a post such as this.

Is class dimissed?

:scratchchin:

[Grandma Turtle]

austinsm11,

You took some comments literally. If they really cheated they would be BANNED from the play-offs. A 1000 people would turn them in.

The OHSAA rules allows them to CHEAT without CHEATING.

I didn't lie...lol:tonguewave:

##############################

I didnt say Massillon was a bad football program either. (I was ask'n you)....

I said over & over that Massillon has the best football program. That is what is so frustrating to me. We have not won a State Championship in 35 years wtf Someth'n wrong with that picture & I'm blaming unfair OHSAA rules...............

We got off on the wrong foot. Sometimes I write stuff & the sarcasm in my brain don't translate to what comes out when I type.













:tonguewave: .................................................. .....................................:tonguewave: .................................................. .....................................:poke:

[Grandma Turtle]

Hummm, we have been missing a certian poster from the great state of Florida who would likely make a post such as this.

Is class dimissed?

:scratchchin:



Nah.... I'm not CarlE:eyemouth:

[Kamd50]

I just want to say one thing. We did not lose that game last year because of OHSAA rules. We lost because of making a risky decision and the simple fact that none of our kids could catch that guy! I don't think that one single player on our team would say they lost because it, or the rules, weren't fair. They are bigger men than that.

[Grandma Turtle]

35 years = 0 Titles

...just aint right for the best football program in the country:oops:

[xtiger]

I just want to say one thing. We did not lose that game last year because of OHSAA rules. We lost because of making a risky decision and the simple fact that none of our kids could catch that guy! I don't think that one single player on our team would say they lost because it, or the rules, weren't fair. They are bigger men than that.

I know Xavier had players from 4 different States. It's not only unfair,
but it's legalized cheating endorsed by OHSAA!

If you take all the "recruited" athletes away from X, Massillon wins
by 60!:2thumbsup:

[CarlE]

Nah.... I'm not CarlE:eyemouth:

You got that right. And I'm offended by BigTime's post. Nothing like that has come from me in quite a long time. The Great Seeker is lurking to make sure of that!!! Ha ha.

[Red50Go]

35 years = 0 Titles

...just aint right for the best football program in the country:oops:


Hey now, pound for pound - we are!

Compared to Iggy/Ed/Elder/Colerain/Mckinley/X/WGH and several others, we are in the mix there somewhere aint we? I mean minus the state titles & all.

[TigerVic]

If we really want a title, no matter how cheap it may be, let's start expelling all students except the football team, then go out and win the Div. VI title. The trophy is just as big!

[Grandma Turtle]

I really don't understand why you say it would be a "cheap" title. If your playing against the same size schools you just earned it & should be very proud of it.

I wish someone would post pics from all the State Champs from all the Division Championship games last year. You would see a bunch of kids with the same smiles on their faces & pride in their hearts. Holding up a trophy which means they are the best in the state. Something they will never forget.

See if you see anyone in those pics that might be thinking what they just accomplished was "cheap"


:devil:

...........................................:devil:

.................................................. .........................................:devil:

.................................................. .................................................. ...................................:devil:

[CarlE]

Yeah, but all those smiling faces aren't on kids from Massillon where we set our expectations just a little, no a LOT higher than they do in other places, OK?

[Grandma Turtle]

:sour:









:gotigers: :gogogo: :gotigers:

[TigerVic]

Those smiles are from kids whose teams accomplished all that they were allowed to accomplish.

We are allowed to and have the ability to accomplish more than a Div. II title. This makes a Div. II title "cheap" to Massillon.

[Seeker]

Holding up a trophy which means they are the best in the state. Something they will never forget.

No, not "best in the state", best in a lower division.

They may be happy, but they all know that St.X was best in the state.

[xtiger]

No, not "best in the state", best in a lower division.

They may be happy, but they all know that St.X was best in the state.

The :devil: advocate:

1) Not one player was happy after the loss to X.

2) A D2 Champ could indeed beat the D1 Champ. Likely? We'll
never know! Possible? Yes!

Would I cherish the D1 trophy? Yes
Would I cherish a D2 trophy? He!l no! I'd throw it away!:laughing:

[MTown]

Without looking it up, ask yourself who won the state title in Divisions 2-6.

According to the players who post on this site, it appears the KIDS are almost unanimous that they would rather lose the D1 title game than win the D2 title.

D2 just would not feel right.

[TigerCoach]

If we win the state title in Div. II and along the way, beat McK, St. Iggy, Warren, etc., then we would always wonder if we would have beat them in the playoffs, so in my mind, forget the Div. II thing. We're always going to compete against Div. I schools, end of subject.

I said it before, the OHSAA is missing the boat here. It's not enrollment numbers, it's the ability to attract talent from wide areas geographically that means the most. TigerDon had a great summary about it in his article.

[CarlE]

Man these are some great points and in the end the consensus is to screw DII. We are NOT interested in this. It is NOT Massillon football. I'm curious though. Could we opt to stay in DI for football and move down to DII for everything else? Just curious.

[monte81]

I hope the OHSAA rethinks there moves or the petitions are granted! We are massillon-- the show in high school football! It just would not seem right playing DII football in PBTS!!!!!!!!

[MTown]

Not an option....there are less divisions in the other sports and we'll still be in D1. Basketball has 4 divisions, and smaller sports like tennis, softball, soccer, and probably track have that amount or less.

So, another point to make is that we are big enough to compete with the "BIG, BAD CATHOLIC SCHOOLS" in basketball, tennis, baseball, track, and tennis....but in football we need to play schools our own size.

[Obie Wan]

I know Xavier had players from 4 different States. It's not only unfair, but it's legalized cheating endorsed by OHSAA!

From the OHSAA bylaws:
"4-6-3 A student whose parents reside outside the state of Ohio will be ineligible for interscholastic athletics in a member school.

NOTE: A biological or adoptive parent must reside in Ohio. A change of custody/guardianship does not satisfy the requirement of this bylaw.

EXCEPTION 1 — A student who has attended a minimum of 15 days in the eleventh grade when the parents move outside the state of Ohio may be declared eligible for the twelfth grade provided the student maintains continuous enrollment in the Ohio school.
EXCEPTION 2 — A student who enrolls at first grade level in a school consisting of grades 1-12 and who maintains continuous enrollment shall be eligible for interscholastic athletics in grades 7-12 in that school regardless of place or state of residence of parents.
EXCEPTION 3 — A student who resides within the boundaries of a parochial school system consisting of grades 1-12 that has multiple sites organized into elementary schools (1-8) and secondary schools (9-12), and who has enrolled by fourth grade level of an elementary school in that system and has maintained continuous enrollment in that school system through grade 8, shall be eligible for interscholastic athletics in grades 9-12 providing the secondary school attended by the student is the school designated by the school system for the continuance of the student’s educational program.
EXCEPTION 4 — A student who resides within the boundaries of a public school district in a neighboring state; and who attends an Ohio public school system under an arrangement through which the entire grade of the out-of-state student attends the Ohio public school system; and for whom the tuition or cost of education for said out-of-state student is paid by the neighboring state’s school district of residence; and who will be eligible to receive a high school diploma from an Ohio public school system shall be eligible for interscholastic athletics in grades 7-12 at the schools designated by the Ohio school system for attendance by the students from the neighboring state.
EXCEPTION 5 — A student who is enrolled in a member school that provides housing for the student and accepts the role of the parent in loco parentis."

It seems that only Exception 1 might apply to a St. X student.

[Grandma Turtle]

I will just have to agree to disagree.......:hug:








:usflag: MASSILLON :usflag:

[President skroob]

I'm curious because we're Massillon we are gauranteed a D2 title? I can almost see it now "Massillon bumped from first round by Lake!"

[monte81]

I'm curious because we're Massillon we are gauranteed a D2 title? I can almost see it now "Massillon bumped from first round by Lake!"

That won't happen unless we have a really down-down-down year!!!!!!

[Fats]

Obie Wan
I have shouted this from the roof of WTIG. The rules are no different for us as for a private school. We have open enrollment, we CAN and SHOULD promote our PROGRAM but our administration is not doing that.
If a kid wants to come here because of our great Choir, or teleproduction department, or for our sports programs no one can stop him. No rule says he can not come. The transfer does not need a reason. WE should promote to give some kids a reason to come to WHS.

[austinsm11]

Not an option....there are less divisions in the other sports and we'll still be in D1. Basketball has 4 divisions, and smaller sports like tennis, softball, soccer, and probably track have that amount or less.

So, another point to make is that we are big enough to compete with the "BIG, BAD CATHOLIC SCHOOLS" in basketball, tennis, baseball, track, and tennis....but in football we need to play schools our own size.

Good point. I think some of these other sports would benefit from being in DII, but since there are fewer divisions they will stay in DI.

[Grandma Turtle]

I'm curious because we're Massillon we are gauranteed a D2 title? I can almost see it now "Massillon bumped from first round by Lake!"


I FIGURED IT OUT !!!

Thats what everyones afraid of, huh......

Being in D2 & not winning the title:ohno: is scarier to you than losing in D1 for 35 years........

I say have some faith in our program. Un-pump your chest & let our kids play on even ground.

They will start winning some play-off titles....

...... Plus we can still whip McKinley & Warren Harding, (and some parochs if you must....:crap:) I hate'm. They should struggle to find games.

Plus, D2 plays their State Title game in Massillon.

********************************************* :sunny:

[Grandma Turtle]

According to the players who post on this site, it appears the KIDS are almost unanimous that they would rather lose the D1 title game than win the D2 title.



They are all brainwashed by Dad.:wink:

[Grandma Turtle]

I believe we need to wait for the old school dinosaurs to die off before we can change some things in Massillon dealing with football.....

Then we will have to deal with the brain washed kids of the dinosaurs......& their kids...........etc

(kidding)

MASSILLON ALWAYS !!!

:gotigers: :gogogo: :gotigers: :gogogo:

[ChronicTiger]

I believe we need to wait for the old school dinosaurs to die off before we can change some things in Massillon dealing with football.....

Then we will have to deal with the brain washed kids of the dinosaurs......& their kids...........etc

(kidding)

MASSILLON ALWAYS !!!

:gotigers: :gogogo: :gotigers: :gogogo:

what is your list of changes?

[CarlE]

None. He's just spouting off about something he knows NOTHING about.

[MTown]

I believe we need to wait for the old school dinosaurs to die off before we can change some things in Massillon dealing with football.....

Then we will have to deal with the brain washed kids of the dinosaurs......& their kids...........etc

(kidding)

MASSILLON ALWAYS !!!

:gotigers: :gogogo: :gotigers: :gogogo:

I am 27 years old. I plan on being around a little while.

[DAWGH8R]

About time to close this one down !!

http://www.essaystop.info/closed.jpg

[longtimefirsttime]

I FIGURED IT OUT !!!

Thats what everyones afraid of, huh......

Being in D2 & not winning the title:ohno: is scarier to you than losing in D1 for 35 years........

I say have some faith in our program.


I DO have faith in the program. That's why I want them to remain D-1. I understand the point you're trying to make. I just do not agree with it.

[Kamd50]

How childish and absurd! EVERYONE that is in favor of opting up or rather "staying" in D1 has more than enough faith in our program and our boys!

But I have to agree with this post also;
"DAWGH8R About time to close this one down !!"

[Fats]

I FIGURED IT OUT !!!

Thats what everyones afraid of, huh......

Being in D2 & not winning the title:ohno: is scarier to you than losing in D1 for 35 years........

I say have some faith in our program. Un-pump your chest & let our kids play on even ground.

They will start winning some play-off titles....

...... Plus we can still whip McKinley & Warren Harding, (and some parochs if you must....:crap:) I hate'm. They should struggle to find games.

Plus, D2 plays their State Title game in Massillon.

********************************************* :sunny:
If we can still whip Mckinley and Warren(I know we can) then why go down to a lower division if we can still compete in Div. I.

[DAWGH8R]

If the playoffs were like they were in the early playoffs, with only the top 1 or 2 teams getting in,..............the DII playoffs might be easier to get into, but with the 8 teams per region format, anything can happen, and it's fairly easy to get in !!

[Grandma Turtle]

what is your list of changes?

Scroll back :doh:

_______________________

OK You wanna list...

#1 Go D2

#2 Replace Coach Stacy with the Head Soccer Mom in Stark County.

#3 Whats that Obie Logo about? Tigers are scary...and replace the dangerous looking Leaping Tiger with maybe a Kitty... A Persian Kitty with a cute football hanging from it's collar.

#4 Then we want to get away from those Orange & Black colors and begin working in the Pink Helmets with Lavender Uniforms. We will call the helmets Salmon though. We know how boys hate pink!

#5 Pillows . Soft Pillows.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[longtimefirsttime]

While I don't agree with your position, I do give you credit for bringing levity to the situation. We're going to talk this one into the ground (hopefully the football season will serve as a pleasant distraction) and humor will be needed.

[ChronicTiger]

Scroll back :doh:

_______________________

OK You wanna list...

#1 Go D2

#2 Replace Coach Stacy with the Head Soccer Mom in Stark County.

#3 Whats that Obie Logo about? Tigers are scary...and replace the dangerous looking Leaping Tiger with maybe a Kitty... A Persian Kitty with a cute football hanging from it's collar.

#4 Then we want to get away from those Orange & Black colors and begin working in the Pink Helmets with Lavender Uniforms. We will call the helmets Salmon though. We know how boys hate pink!

#5 Pillows . Soft Pillows.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



You make continuous suggestions about changes and this is what you have to offer?

:scratchchin:

[tiger74]

please CLOSE this thread before we begin singing cum bya {sp?}:crap:

[Grandma Turtle]

:tig: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx :ers:



:TIG2: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:ERS2:

[Grandma Turtle]

Anyone on here listen to Coach Stacy on the radio today?

He wants in the Federal League.

He will make the decision to Play in D2 if that is what is best for the kids. He says... It's all about the kids.... If thats what is best for them then that is what he will do. He mentioned he has been too busy getting the Tigers ready for this year to make that decision yet.

I didn't hear him mention that he wanted to do what was best for the beer belly old timers on the MassillonProud Site.

He mentioned back in the early 90's Massillon always had 140 kids out for football. He said now days it averages 80 something. He mentioned it's a different Massillon & he will take all that into consideration when making the decision on which division is best for the Massillon kids.

____________________ :iagree:
__________________________ :iagree:
________________________________ :iagree:
______________________________________ :iagree:

[longtimefirsttime]

[B]

I didn't hear him mention that he wanted to do what was best for the beer belly old timers on the MassillonProud Site.

Hey I resemble that remark! Coach Stacy is currently distancing himself from this discussion (as he should). Let his bosses mull it over while he continues to lead the Tigers to greatness!

[Grandma Turtle]

agree

[Al.]

He also mentioned that he likes having the Tigers playing in and getting exposure to "Festival" type games like the Herbstreit and Cincinnati. However not back-to-back games like this year.
He said one of these types of games per season is enough and quote: "hopefully if the Tigers are in the Federal League, in the future the schedule will allow them to continue to play in them" :oh: :scratchchin:

[longtimefirsttime]

And only if they're in the first 3 weeks of the year. Nah we'd rather put D-2 teams there to prepare for the future. :wink: It's a joke people. It does sound like he is very pro-Fed though. I didn't hear the interview (I'm assuming on WTIG). I didn't have the tin foil and bunny ears handy. The Tigers will rule in 2006 and the rest will take care of itself.

[Al.]

And only if they're in the first 3 weeks of the year. Nah we'd rather put D-2 teams there to prepare for the future. :wink: It's a joke people. It does sound like he is very pro-Fed though. I didn't hear the interview (I'm assuming on WTIG). I didn't have the tin foil and bunny ears handy. The Tigers will rule in 2006 and the rest will take care of itself.

Yes: WTIG. It was a good reception day on my way to Akron this morning. Got to Canal Fulton before I lost the signal.
Also Eddie Dwyer Sports writer for the Plain Dealer was on. He picked St. Ed's as his pre-season #1 team in the PD area (does not include Stark Co.) However he picked the TIGERS as his #1 pick to take it all this year.

[massillonmarine]

I listened to the show too. He said that he picked the Tigers to Finish #1 in the North half of the playoffs.