Waste of Time, and Taxpayers' Money

[CarlE]

Good grief. This can't be serious. Yes, the U.S. Congress will now be dictated to by some city council of a town of 35,000 and the resolution they inact. OK, yeah THAT will happen. Perhaps this council would be better spent concentrating on something they can freaking CONTROL, whatever that is.

"City Councilman Larry Slagle is tackling an issue above his pay grade: Health insurance.
And not just health insurance for city employees, but health insurance for all Americans.
Slagle, D-at large, has asked council to support a resolution urging federal lawmakers to pass U.S. House Resolution 676, which would provide a single-payer system by expanding Medicare to every resident. U.S. Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., is the sponsor."

http://www.indeonline.com/local_news/x1056109065/City-Council-wants-heard-on-universal-health-plan

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Sounds like a councilman that either thinks broadly, or has a wide fore-head, much like TigerCoach's! :tonguewave:

[CarlE]

Sounds like a councilman that either thinks broadly, or has a wide fore-head, much like TigerCoach's! :tonguewave:

I think council should forget "thinking broadly" and start "thinking Massillon". That in and of itself should keep them busy for the next couple of years.

[bs.gunn]

Good grief. This can't be serious. Yes, the U.S. Congress will now be dictated to by some city council of a town of 35,000 and the resolution they inact. OK, yeah THAT will happen. Perhaps this council would be better spent concentrating on something they can freaking CONTROL, whatever that is.

"City Councilman Larry Slagle is tackling an issue above his pay grade: Health insurance.
And not just health insurance for city employees, but health insurance for all Americans.
Slagle, D-at large, has asked council to support a resolution urging federal lawmakers to pass U.S. House Resolution 676, which would provide a single-payer system by expanding Medicare to every resident. U.S. Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., is the sponsor."

http://www.indeonline.com/local_news/x1056109065/City-Council-wants-heard-on-universal-health-plan

This sounds pretty cool to me.
Now if only he would start a resolution to impeach President Bush :-)

[bs.gunn]

I think council should forget "thinking broadly" and start "thinking Massillon". That in and of itself should keep them busy for the next couple of years.

I'm certain that Universal Healthcare would help most Massillon residents.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

My freinds, councilman Slagle is the right man for this job, he's a reformer my freinds, he's taken on big government in Massillon my freinds, he's taken on special interests my freinds, he's taken on lobbyists and crooked politicians my freinds, and when congress said here's an earmark to rebuild that Tremont bridge to nowhere, Mr. Slagle said "thanks, but no thanks"!
My freinds, the time is now for change....did I mention my stay at the Hanoi Hilton? Did you know that the Hanoi Hilton is not owned by the Paris Hiltons? My freinds, the choice is clear, it's time for more Slagle!
Do you know the difference between a McKinley Bulldog and a hockey mom? Bugs, sweat and drool! The Bulldog doesn't have any!

[CarlE]

This sounds pretty cool to me.
Now if only he would start a resolution to impeach President Bush :-)

I would help him in that endeavor, believe me!! LOL.

[Indiana95]

My freinds, councilman Slagle is the right man for this job, he's a reformer my freinds, he's taken on big government in Massillon my freinds, he's taken on special interests my freinds, he's taken on lobbyists and crooked politicians my freinds, and when congress said here's an earmark to rebuild that Tremont bridge to nowhere, Mr. Slagle said "thanks, but no thanks"!
My freinds, the time is now for change....did I mention my stay at the Hanoi Hilton? Did you know that the Hanoi Hilton is not owned by the Paris Hiltons? My freinds, the choice is clear, it's time for more Slagle!
Do you know the difference between a McKinley Bulldog and a hockey mom? Bugs, sweat and drool! The Bulldog doesn't have any!

:lol:

[savage4president]

I'm certain that Universal Healthcare would help most Massillon residents.

Please stop calling it universal...Call it what it is...SOCIALIZED!

[TigerCoach]

Maybe Councilman Slagle can think broadly on how they can get the city out of debt with the Legends Golf Course.

My FRIEND, TWBT, my FRIEND.:laughing:

[02teleprograd]

I have family in Canada & was told by them many of time overs.

Free health care rocks but if you have a major problem, you better off in the United States.

If we just drop free health care for every one who pays taxes, our RN's & Doc's would be slammed. We all ready need a lot more RN's in this country. Adding more people who need care is not going to help the system run any better.

Need more RN's first.

[bs.gunn]

Please stop calling it universal...Call it what it is...SOCIALIZED!

If we're going to start calling things for what they are, maybe we should start with you

Maybe Councilman Slagle can think broadly on how they can get the city out of debt with the Legends Golf Course.

My FRIEND, TWBT, my FRIEND.:laughing:

The legends golf course isn't causing the city to go in debt. Poor decision making from past councils is

[savage4president]

If we're going to start calling things for what they are, maybe we should start with you



Call me what you want...I honestly could care less, actually I get a kick out of it when people attack me personally because other than MC there is not one person on this site that knows anything about me personally. But for god's sake stop saying that healthcare for all is anything less than an act of socialism. Either be a proud socialist or don't. But don't pretend that UNIVERSAL does not mean SOCIALIZED.

[TomcatTiger]

The legends golf course isn't causing the city to go in debt. Poor decision making from past councils is

But I thought that....

I am not an economics guy.

And yes, this is an economics issue. The council may be a political entity but this whole debt thing leans heavy on the Legends.

[bs.gunn]

Call me what you want...I honestly could care less, actually I get a kick out of it when people attack me personally because other than MC there is not one person on this site that knows anything about me personally. But for god's sake stop saying that healthcare for all is anything less than an act of socialism. Either be a proud socialist or don't. But don't pretend that UNIVERSAL does not mean SOCIALIZED.

Linking things to socialism is a republican technic to bring negative response to an idea. The fact is socialism would mean that the government controlled every aspect of the healthcare system, meaning it chooses what medicines, what doctors, what hospitals, what treatment, and what care you are to be given.

The only social aspect of Obama's healthcare is that everyone is paying into it to guarantee everyone has basic healthcare abilities. Private health care will still be available to folks who want it.

Go ahead and keep red baiting.

[bs.gunn]

But I thought that....



And yes, this is an economics issue. The council may be a political entity but this whole debt thing leans heavy on the Legends.

Great I said one thing about not being an economics guy and that means I don't know jack about economics. I'm not a doctor but I still know the difference between the flu and a cold.

[savage4president]

Linking things to socialism is a republican technic to bring negative response to an idea. The fact is socialism would mean that the government controlled every aspect of the healthcare system, meaning it chooses what medicines, what doctors, what hospitals, what treatment, and what care you are to be given.

The only social aspect of Obama's healthcare is that everyone is paying into it to guarantee everyone has basic healthcare abilities. Private health care will still be available to folks who want it.

Go ahead and keep red baiting.

Red Baiting??? As a full fledged member of the socialist society you should know there is a big difference between socialism and communism.

[WheatCity]

This absolutely infuriates me. Not because I am opposed to formation of a single payer healt care system, but because there IS NO CONCEIVABLE REASON THAT CITY COUNCIL SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THIS. Instead of worrying about national issues that they posses ZERO control over, perhaps they should be looking into make our town viable again instead of the rust belt, WAL-Mart stop gap, reactionary, in-debt, static burg it is, with a smelly south end and a serious brain-drain problem.

AAAAARRRGH!

[CarlE]

This absolutely infuriates me. Not because I am opposed to formation of a single payer healt care system, but because there IS NO CONCEIVABLE REASON THAT CITY COUNCIL SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THIS. Instead of worrying about national issues that they posses ZERO control over, perhaps they should be looking into make our town viable again instead of the rust belt, WAL-Mart stop gap, reactionary, in-debt, static burg it is, with a smelly south end and a serious brain-drain problem.

AAAAARRRGH!

This is why I actually posted it in the first place. I wanted the reaction to the fact that city council was even talking about it. The other discussions are collateral damage I have no control over!! LOL.

[TomcatTiger]

This is why I actually posted it in the first place. I wanted the reaction to the fact that city council was even talking about it. The other discussions are collateral damage I have no control over!! LOL.

"Slagle said the United States is the only industrialized country in the world without a national health care system, a statistic that tells him the United States is “so far behind” other countries in terms of health care." Aaaaand that is why people from all over the world come here when they have real health issues. But CarlE I agree with you, our city council needs to attend to city matters. But seeing as how they handle city matters, it doesn't surprise me how they could think a national health care issue requires thier attention. Has anyone ever read the city council minutes? They are quite entertaining. Sad and hilarious at the same time. Our city council doesn't seem to have much of a clue.

[BIGW36]

Great I said one thing about not being an economics guy and that means I don't know jack about economics. I'm not a doctor but I still know the difference between the flu and a cold.

If, the Democrats should win the election, they would have control over the Congress and the White House, leaving the people with no checks and balances in our goverment. That, my "Liberal' friends is "Socialism" in its true form. I don't believe any of us deserve higher taxes, brought on by more Democrat give away programs: "More Big Goverment Spending" higher taxes, with no control, not me. "Thanks, but NO Thanks"

:unclesam:

[bs.gunn]

Red Baiting??? As a full fledged member of the socialist society you should know there is a big difference between socialism and communism.

red baiting applies to Socialism too. Look it up!

I am not a socialist sir and if you call me one again the gloves are coming off

This absolutely infuriates me. Not because I am opposed to formation of a single payer healt care system, but because there IS NO CONCEIVABLE REASON THAT CITY COUNCIL SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THIS. Instead of worrying about national issues that they posses ZERO control over, perhaps they should be looking into make our town viable again instead of the rust belt, WAL-Mart stop gap, reactionary, in-debt, static burg it is, with a smelly south end and a serious brain-drain problem.

AAAAARRRGH!

What infuriates me is the misconception that the council shouldn't discuss issues that would impact the citizens of our city, such as universal health care. It's not as though these council members do not wear multiple hats and the only time allotted to them to discuss these things is in the council meetings. Also is it truly inconceivable that a discussion about Universal health care and supporting a resolution DOESN"T help our city?

I think it does. Now if all our city council did was supporting resolutions for national government. Then I would agree that there is a problem here. But they don't. You and I and everyone else here Know they don't.

[CarlE]

If, the Democrats should win the election, they would have control over the Congress and the White House, leaving the people with no checks and balances in our goverment. That, my "Liberal' friends is "Socialism" in its true form. I don't believe any of us deserve higher taxes, brought on by more Democrat give away programs: "More Big Goverment Spending" higher taxes, with no control, not me. "Thanks, but NO Thanks"

:unclesam:

Talk to your freaking son that is voting for The Muslim. He won't answer his dang phone. Just leaves me abstract emails. Tell him I do NOT want to have to drive to Stow and hunt him down.

[bs.gunn]

If, the Democrats should win the election, they would have control over the Congress and the White House, leaving the people with no checks and balances in our goverment. That, my "Liberal' friends is "Socialism" in its true form. I don't believe any of us deserve higher taxes, brought on by more Democrat give away programs: "More Big Goverment Spending" higher taxes, with no control, not me. "Thanks, but NO Thanks"

:unclesam:

The separation of power is x3. It's not as though the Republicans are simply going to pack their bags and leave Washington. Controlling the 2 houses and presidential office doesn't mean they get to do whatever they want.

The fear and hysterics coming from some on the right really makes me believe this country is going in the right direction this fall. The blue direction, voting democrat you see. Cause I'm not sure our great nation could withstand another 8 years of a dagger stabbing into it's abdomen from the crazy right. I know I couldn't

[TomcatTiger]

red baiting applies to Socialism too. Look it up!

I am not a socialist sir and if you call me one again the gloves are coming off



What infuriates me is the misconception that the council shouldn't discuss issues that would impact the citizens of our city, such as universal health care. It's not as though these council members do not wear multiple hats and the only time allotted to them to discuss these things is in the council meetings. Also is it truly inconceivable that a discussion about Universal health care and supporting a resolution DOESN"T help our city?

I think it does. Now if all our city council did was supporting resolutions for national government. Then I would agree that there is a problem here. But they don't. You and I and everyone else here Know they don't.

HAHA oh wow you are too much. C'mon guy, you should have said the e-gloves are going to come off. Cause lets be honest, you're not going to do anything but sit in front of your computer and dazzle us with more of your ignorance.

You honestly think our city council should waste time in discussing national issues? Seriously? I'll tell you one thing, when we sent these people to the city council it sure as heck wasn't to talk about national healthcare. It doesn't matter what they say about this crap, especially when they can't even manage a city budget. I mean, I'm glad that they are willing to serve the city...but they should serve it for the purpose with which the people charge them.

[CarlE]

The separation of power is x3. It's not as though the Republicans are simply going to pack their bags and leave Washington. Controlling the 2 houses and presidential office doesn't mean they get to do whatever they want.

The fear and hysterics coming from some on the right really makes me believe this country is going in the right direction this fall. The blue direction, voting democrat you see. Cause I'm not sure our great nation could withstand another 8 years of a dagger stabbing into it's abdomen from the crazy right. I know I couldn't

Really? That's interesting because when the Republicans controlled all of this you freaking Democrats were screaming that Armageddon was upon us. Funny how the worm has turned.

Fear and hysterics. You might want to read what's being posted out there about the Republican Vice-Presidential candidate. The hysterics the Dems are exuding is almost laughable except for the fact that it is freaking PATHETIC. Politics at its worst.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

So if the dems are in the Whitehouse and control congress that means there will be no "checks and balances", and that's called "socialism"?

That's just too funny! What the hell was "checked and balanced", and what was it called when Dubya and the tream of criminals controlled it for 6 years? Disney Land?
Talk about big governement and out of controll spending. Hell, that's the only reason a black man named Barack HUSSEIN Obama can even compete for the presidency of the United States in 2008 with inexperience, and running on a platform of CHANGE! Spare me the party line about congresses approval rating since they took over 1 1/2 years ago. They're still stuck working without enough votes to make changes, including limiting the power of the mindless uniter known as Dubya!
"Socialism"? Interesting!

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Fear and hysterics. You might want to read what's being posted out there about the Republican Vice-Presidential candidate. The hysterics the Dems are exuding is almost laughable except for the fact that it is freaking PATHETIC. Politics at its worst.

Yup, you're right bruddah. And the same pathetic group of barbarians that skewered none other than the honorable John McCain and his family in 2000 and 2004 are now running his campaign! That poor little Palin lady only has Tucker Eskew and his possee of "do-gooders" LOL to write her speeches, tell her what to say, sequester her from the dastardly "liberal" media, and play the "she's just an innocent little victim of the mean sexist card" when it's convenient! That's the perfect way for them to justify this woman from being vetted by "the people", as every other candidate was for the past 18 months leading up to the primaries, and since the nominations. If the GOP has it's way, Sarah Palin will never have to spontaneously answer the pertnent questions (not the disturbing intrusive questions already answered by other candidate in the past) in a non scripted form, that are so vitally important to "we the people" when considering her to be 1 heart beat away from the Presidency!
I guarantee you, if the situation was flipped, the GOP would be screaming 10 times louder, and doing crap far worse, then what we're seeing right now!

BTW! Hannity was great last night! Did you watch?
Yeah, the "hysterics", attacks and mud slinging is definately one sided. The good lord knows none of the GOP angels have ever said a negative thing about Obama, his wife, his family, Biden or anyone else in the democratic party! Lol

You're too much bruddah!

[OTC TIGER]

[QUOTE=TigerswillbeTigers;120351]

The good lord knows none of the GOP angels have ever said a negative thing about Obama, his wife, his family, Biden or anyone else in the democratic party! Lol


The GOP doesn't have to say anything...Joe Biden will take care of that himself.."in fact Senator Clinton may have been a better pick for VP than myself" :thumbsup:

[bs.gunn]

Really? That's interesting because when the Republicans controlled all of this you freaking Democrats were screaming that Armageddon was upon us. Funny how the worm has turned.

Fear and hysterics. You might want to read what's being posted out there about the Republican Vice-Presidential candidate. The hysterics the Dems are exuding is almost laughable except for the fact that it is freaking PATHETIC. Politics at its worst.

Nope screaming about the end of the world is definitely a hallmark of being a republican. No demo is afraid of Palin. We're still waiting for the other shoe to drop, when people start understanding how ill advised a palin pick was.

[CarlE]

Fear and hysterics. You might want to read what's being posted out there about the Republican Vice-Presidential candidate. The hysterics the Dems are exuding is almost laughable except for the fact that it is freaking PATHETIC. Politics at its worst.

Yup, you're right bruddah. And the same pathetic group of barbarians that skewered none other than the honorable John McCain and his family in 2000 and 2004 are now running his campaign! That poor little Palin lady only has Tucker Eskew and his possee of "do-gooders" LOL to write her speeches, tell her what to say, sequester her from the dastardly "liberal" media, and play the "she's just an innocent little victim of the mean sexist card" when it's convenient! That's the perfect way for them to justify this woman from being vetted by "the people", as every other candidate was for the past 18 months leading up to the primaries, and since the nominations. If the GOP has it's way, Sarah Palin will never have to spontaneously answer the pertnent questions (not the disturbing intrusive questions already answered by other candidate in the past) in a non scripted form, that are so vitally important to "we the people" when considering her to be 1 heart beat away from the Presidency!
I guarantee you, if the situation was flipped, the GOP would be screaming 10 times louder, and doing crap far worse, then what we're seeing right now!

BTW! Hannity was great last night! Did you watch?
Yeah, the "hysterics", attacks and mud slinging is definately one sided. The good lord knows none of the GOP angels have ever said a negative thing about Obama, his wife, his family, Biden or anyone else in the democratic party! Lol

You're too much bruddah!

Criminy. First the words are put in my mouth and now I'm defending the Republican campaign? NOTHING could be further from the truth. McCain was nothing short of crucified in 2000 and 2004 by Dumbya, The Dick, and their merry band of evil doers. I will NEVER deny this. My post was to a specific point that bsgunn made about hysterics. Let's keep it on track here, OK? 99% of what they are posting about Palin, and The Muslim is irrelevant to me. The fact he's black has NOTHING to do with his social programs he's proposing that will demoralize anybody making a decent living today. THAT is why I won't be voting for him. Well, and the fact he's got no experience. And he's proving that every time his mouth opens.

I did see Hannity go off last night. Honest , i thought he was going to punch Kuttner right in the face at one point in time. Poor Alan Colmes didn't know what to do or say. I was surfing between Glenn Beck, who had my hero Ron Paul on, and The Rays playing Boston. Of course, I didn't know the Rays were going to go until 12:10am so I could have kept them on hold for awhile. Anyway, my thoughts.

[Indiana95]

The only social aspect of Obama's healthcare is that everyone is paying into it to guarantee everyone has basic healthcare abilities.
.

Including all the little babies TigerVic is going to save.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

I liked the flashback at the end when Hannity was telling Jordan Sparks about the first reviews of Hannity and Colmes 12 years ago. "The guy said Alan looked funerally and I had a bad haircut"! LOL "FUNERALLY"! So that's the look of "FUNERALLY"? Alam Colmes looks "FUNERALLY" Lol! Perfect!

[Indiana95]

If, the Democrats should win the election, they would have control over the Congress and the White House, leaving the people with no checks and balances in our goverment. That, my "Liberal' friends is "Socialism" in its true form. I don't believe any of us deserve higher taxes, brought on by more Democrat give away programs: "More Big Goverment Spending" higher taxes, with no control, not me. "Thanks, but NO Thanks"

:unclesam:


WOW, you've done a nice job memorizing the GOP sound bits. Thanks, but no thanks? I thought SARAH said that?:laughing:

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Thanks for the softball OTC! The GOP doesn't have to say anything...Joe Biden will take care of that himself.."in fact Senator Clinton may have been a better pick for VP than myself"

And we all know Sarah Palin was McCains THIRD choice right behind Lieberman and Ridge, and the GOP's THIRD choice right behind Romney and Pawlenty! So if Biden is correct, he was still second best which is always better than THIRD, right? LOL!
So....what's your point OTC? Lol

[bs.gunn]

Including all the little babies TigerVic is going to save.

Republicans want to save the babies but they don't want to take care of them.

republican thinking
Abortion bad, have that child, god said you must
I know you're a single mom with a son named tom, still in high school, don't have a car, work full-time at the local fast food place. But stop asking us for money to take care of YOUR kid.
Your kid is freeloading put him to work. I don't care if he's 5 he can clean dishes.
Those Dems and ther sooooocialistic ideals and seeeeexual educatians. Just trying to take our monies

[Indiana95]

Republicans want to save the babies but they don't want to take care of them.

republican thinking
Abortion bad, have that child, god said you must
I know you're a single mom with a son named tom, still in high school, don't have a car, work full-time at the local fast food place. But stop asking us for money to take care of YOUR kid.
Your kid is freeloading put him to work. I don't care if he's 5 he can clean dishes.
Those Dems and ther sooooocialistic ideals and seeeeexual educatians. Just trying to take our monies

My point! They can't have it both ways.....

[TomcatTiger]

Thanks for the softball OTC! The GOP doesn't have to say anything...Joe Biden will take care of that himself.."in fact Senator Clinton may have been a better pick for VP than myself"

And we all know Sarah Palin was McCains THIRD choice right behind Lieberman and Ridge, and the GOP's THIRD choice right behind Romney and Pawlenty! So if Biden is correct, he was still second best which is always better than THIRD, right? LOL!
So....what's your point OTC? Lol

Thats not true. You assume that she was McCains whatever number pick because the media was talking about other candidates before her. This only shows that her name was not released to the media by the McCain camp until right before the official announcement. I think this decision has proved itself to be a good strategy for making the left scramble to find a way to attack her. Like it or hate it, it has worked. And I don't believe anyone in the McCain team has come out and said that Palin was anything less than the first choice. The only way you can put forth this argument is to do alot of assuming and guessing.

[BIGW36]

Talk to your freaking son that is voting for The Muslim. He won't answer his dang phone. Just leaves me abstract emails. Tell him I do NOT want to have to drive to Stow and hunt him down.

Carl, The next time your in town ????? stop by,and pick me up. I'll take you to his house, then you won't have to spend all your time hunting him down. The beer is on me, lets see,1-case Budlight, 1-case Miller Lite. You still do drink that Miller slop, don't you???? It will be just like old times.Remember that night at the Massillon vs. St Joes game in Cleveland?? Deep sixing those nicely wrapped Miller Lites in the garabage can still hurts.

:deal:.

[CarlE]

I liked the flashback at the end when Hannity was telling Jordan Sparks about the first reviews of Hannity and Colmes 12 years ago. "The guy said Alan looked funerally and I had a bad haircut"! LOL "FUNERALLY"! So that's the look of "FUNERALLY"? Alam Colmes looks "FUNERALLY" Lol! Perfect!

Missed that part. I was watching Chuck Norris on Glenn Beck at that time.

[CarlE]

Carl, The next time your in town ????? stop by,and pick me up. I'll take you to his house, then you won't have to spend all your time hunting him down. The beer is on me, lets see,1-case Budlight, 1-case Miller Lite. You still do drink that Miller slop, don't you???? It will be just like old times.Remember that night at the Massillon vs. St Joes game in Cleveland?? Deep sixing those nicely wrapped Miller Lites in the garabage can still hurts.


:deal:.


Cop caught me twice. Said if he caught me again we would be having this conversation somewhere else. That's all I needed to hear.

[BIGW36]

WOW, you've done a nice job memorizing the GOP sound bits. Thanks, but no thanks? I thought SARAH said that?:laughing:

No, I'm older than she is and I probably used those words many, many times,even before she was born. Sorry to hear those words are new to your
vocabulary.

:lol:

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Tomcat! Absolutely, positively no assumption here! Do you really think the McCain camp is going to admit it right now? Lol
If they did, the election would be over! Sarah Palin is all they have right now!
The fact that when asked about the well known disagreements in the days leading up to the RNC, the McCain camp and it's strategists have been unwilling to categorically deny it happened this way, even on Hannity and Colmes, which is proof enough for many because if it didn't happen that way, why not "categorically" deny it!
If that's not good enough for you, just take the words of those closest to the situation when it happened and you'll have enough proof for even the biggest doubters! I'm sure you can "fact-check" it and find out plenty.
If you still don't believe that she was the 5th choice, and that McCain desperately wanted Lieberman then Ridge, and the GOP wanted Romney then Pawlenty, then you haven't looked hard enough for the truth!
I guarantee you the leaders of the GOP were threatening a "WAR ON THE FLOOR" two days before the RNC if McCain chose either one, and I will also guarantee you that McCain was threatening the GOP if he was forced to take Romney or Pawlenty. What took place has not only been well chronicled even by FOX, and never "denied" by those closest to McCain when asked, but my source is absolutely close enough to the situation to know exactly what took place. Not that it matters, but CarlE can verify it if you want corroberation!

5th choice! How comforting!

[CarlE]

Tomcat! If you don't believe that she was the 5th choice, and that McCain desperately wanted Lieberman then Ridge, and the GOP wanted Romney or Pawlenty, then you haven't looked hard enough for the truth!
I guarantee you the leaders of the GOP were threatening a "WAR ON THE FLOOR" two days before the RNC if McCain chose either one, and I will also guarantee you that McCain was threatening to blow up the convention if he was forced to take Romney or Pawlenty. What took place has not only been well chronicled even by FOX, and never "denied" by those closest to McCain when asked, but my source is absolutely close enough to the situation to know exactly what took place. Not that it matters, but CarlE can verify it if you want corroberation!

5th choice! How comforting!

Bro it's me. Of COURSE it matters!!LOL.

Seriously this DID happen folks.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

If nothing else bruddah, Hannity would be verrrrry proud of these two proteges! Fair and balanced, and always speaking the truth! :usflag:

[mike_da_man13]

lol those gosh darn socialist ideals... what have they done for our country other then bail us out of depression and turn us into a world power?

[TigerswillbeTigers]

Tomcat! For what it's worth, which may be ZERO to you and everyone else, Lol! The following is a partial text of what transpired the last few days leading up to the RNC. In no way does it prove everything I've stated, but it sheds a bit of light on what I'm telling you. This is a small part of several emails I've recieved from some excellent sources close to the matter since the selection of Palin. I really don't care to repeat everything that transpired in the days leading up to the RNC, but if you or anyone else wants to look into what I've posted about McCains decision I'm sure you will have no problem coming to your own conclusion based upon what's chronicled. Remember, everything I've said has been put to Rick Davis, Steve Schmidt and Charlie black by several reporters and media personell, and even though they say it never happened, not one of them would go on record and categorically deny any, or all of it! To me, silence speaks volumes when there's "un-named sources within the campaign" saying it!


The selection was the culmination of a five-month process, described by Mr. McCain’s inner circle and outside advisers in interviews this past weekend, and offers a glimpse into how Mr. McCain might make high-stakes decisions as president.

At the very least, the process reflects Mr. McCain’s history of making fast, instinctive and sometimes risky decisions. “I make them as quickly as I can, quicker than the other fellow, if I can,” Mr. McCain wrote, with his top adviser Mark Salter, in his 2002 book, “Worth Fighting For.” “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”
Mr. McCain said that the last thing he wanted was the kind of rushed decision that President George Bush had made in 1988 in selecting his running mate, Dan Quayle, then a senator from Indiana.

But it was not until the last few weeks that Mr. McCain winnowed his list of 20 to five or six finalists. They included, a McCain adviser said, Mr. Pawlenty, Mr. Romney, Mr. Lieberman, Ms. Palin and Tom Ridge, the former governor of Pennsylvania who also supports abortion rights. Ms. Palin, unlike the others, was barely mentioned in news media speculation.

The finalists, including Ms. Palin, were vetted, a campaign adviser said, and Mr. McCain then asked his inner circle — Mr. Salter, Rick Davis, Steve Schmidt and Charlie Black — to provide him with assessments of each. “He said, ‘Give me plusses and minuses on each of these people,’ ” Mr. Black said.

One of Mr. McCain’s closest friends, Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, weighed in as well, pushing so hard for Mr. Lieberman — Mr. McCain, Mr. Graham and Mr. Lieberman are longtime traveling companions — that he vexed some of the other advisers. Others in the inner circle favored Mr. Pawlenty or Mr. Romney. Ms. Palin had no strong advocates in the group, an outside adviser said, but she had no detractors, either.
Last Sunday, 24 hours after Mr. Obama announced his running mate, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, Mr. McCain met with his senior campaign team at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Phoenix. By then, campaign advisers said, the group had long decided that Mr. McCain’s “experience versus change” argument against Mr. Obama had run its course, to the extent that it had not worked at all.
At the same time, Mr. Obama’s coming acceptance speech before a stadium of about 80,000 people (and what turned out to be a television audience of nearly 40 million) loomed large. As much as the campaign was publicly dismissing Mr. Obama as a celebrity in a rock-star setting, the concern was that his command of such a large crowd on the last night of the Democratic convention would give him the aura of a president.

In any case, one campaign adviser said, Mr. McCain hated running as the wizened old hand of experience. Despite his embrace this year of President Bush and many of the administration’s policies, Mr. McCain, a campaign adviser said, still saw himself as the maverick who delighted in occasionally throwing political grenades at his own Party.

Ms. Palin, and not Mr. Pawlenty or Mr. Romney, would reinforce Mr. McCain’s self-image, an adviser said. She had a reputation as a reformer in Alaska, she hunted and fished, and she had once belonged to a union. Just as crucial, Ms. Palin, 44, was beloved by the party’s religious base but did not come off as shrill. “She’s conservative,” Mr. Black said, “but she’s not an ideologue.”

After Mr. McCain contacted Ms. Palin, Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Salter met with her on Wednesday in Flagstaff, Ariz. It was not until the following morning that she traveled to Sedona to meet with Mr. McCain, who then sat down with her for his only interview of a potential running mate.

Within hours if not minutes after the interview was concluded, Ms. Palin had the job.

Like I said, take it for what it's worth!
BTW CarlE! Ron Paul said he's leaning towards voting for Barr! What's up with that? What's wrong with my man T. Boone Pickens? I've never heard of Barr having a plan :sad:

[Obie Wan]

If you're going to cut and paste, at least acknowledge your source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/politics/31reconstruct.html?em.

I wasn't aware that a publicly available article from the New York Times qualified as an "excellent source close to the matter", though.

[TigerswillbeTigers]

If you're going to cut and paste, at least acknowledge your source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us...struct.html?em.

I said, The following is a partial text of what transpired the last few days leading up to the RNC. In no way does it prove everything I've stated, but it sheds a bit of light on what I'm telling you. This is a small part of several emails I've recieved from some excellent sources close to the matter since the selection of Palin. What part of this confused you Obie Wan?

I wasn't aware that a publicly available article from the New York Times qualified as an "excellent source close to the matter", though.

I'll try to make this real simple for you Obie Wan!
First, I realize you're not aware of much, but for arguments sake, I'll agree with you that the article doesn't qualify as an "excellent source close to the matter" Lol. As long as you're man enough to admit that I never said it did, and never implied it did!
I know you're more than capable of reading and comprehension, so as I continue, I must admit that it surprises me that you've offered up such an easy rebutal.
As I said, this information was one of several emails I recieved in the past couple of weeks. As I also said, "this information" is well "CHRONICLED", which, since you can't comprehend that language, here goes. It means, that even you could track down the well "CHRONICLED" source THIS SPECIFIC part of what I originally posted says! Does that help?
Furthermore, I assure you, there was NO "cutting and pasting" of the article by me. I just took a few minutes to look at the article you referrenced, and I noticed that it's not verbatim, which confirms my point that it was a "partial" text, as my freind said it was. What does that tell me? Was there something missing that would discredit the posted information? NO! What it tells me is, that the person that sent it to me was ONLY interested in the information within the article that was pertnent to him! I "cut and pasted" this part of his email in it's uninterupted entirety, then posted it on here for all to read! Was "IT" my source for all of the other things I mentioned? NO! Was it "a source" for a very limited part of what I posted, in an attempt to show proof of a few things that I originally stated? ABSOLUTELY! Too bad, so sad.
NOW YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT SIMPLE LANGUAGE.
Here's the big one OW! As far as my "excellent source close to the matter" goes, he exists! Unfortunately for you, he's a source you'll never have the priveledge of knowing. A source that only a select few on here are worthy of knowing. These select few know who it is that I'm referring to, and some even knew many facts long before they were even rumors that were being speculated on by people like you, and many in the media! Since I don't want you to lose any sleep over this, I'll go ahead and tell you that CarlE and KamD know who my source is, and in CarlE's case, he's been "in the loop" since a couple of days prior to the RNC.
You see OW, there's some people in this world, and even on little old MP.com here that have freinds and family involved in many things. There's many people on here that I have had conversations with that have freinds and family in some very interesting professions. You should really try to treat people better. If you did, you might get to know a whole lot more about the world, and even Massillon by virtue of who you meet!
So there you have it Obie Wan. Now I know you're sources on matters like this are limited, but I'm confident that you've heard or read much of what I originally posted, so why don't you just go ahead and admit that the original post was accurate?
Anything else peaking your curiosity today?

[DE#53]

Linking things to socialism is a republican technic to bring negative response to an idea. The fact is socialism would mean that the government controlled every aspect of the healthcare system, meaning it chooses what medicines, what doctors, what hospitals, what treatment, and what care you are to be given.

The only social aspect of Obama's healthcare is that everyone is paying into it to guarantee everyone has basic healthcare abilities. Private health care will still be available to folks who want it.

Go ahead and keep red baiting.

Has anybody given any kind of figures as to how much of an increase we all will have to pay? Tax wise? I've talked to a few Canadians in the past year or so and they say their health care isn't as good as everyone thinks. There is often long waits for surgeries. You don't get to choose your doctors. Taxes in Canada is pretty high too. And I was also told that the coverage is very basic and most people have to buy extra coverage on their own anyway. I'm against it but have an open mind to hear all the pros and cons and then make a fair assessment. I've also heard on different radio programs that many of the European countries that have it are having problems too.

[DAWGH8R]

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/AwJeezNotthisCrapAgain.jpg

[CarlE]

All I can say is that if you think all of TwbT's sources are cut-and-paste articles you are sadly, SADLY mistaken. Believe me when I tell you it goes way deeper than that. Impeccable, to be honest. Anyway, this election has everyone so on edge it's unbelievable. I NEVER thought anything would top 2000 or even 2004 but man oh man we are there and more these days.

[Obie Wan]

http://www.unc.edu/courses/jomc050/idog.jpg

[CarlE]

Not sure who you're referring to but I find it quite ironic that you are the one that posted it. I guess people that actually DO come out and meet the public as opposed to those that continue to hide behind the keyboard should probably take note of this, yes?

[WheatCity]

lol those gosh darn socialist ideals... what have they done for our country other then bail us out of depression and turn us into a world power?

The New Deal had little to do with ending the Great Depression. In fact, towards the end of FDR's second term, it was getting worse. World War II had EVERYTHING to do with ending the Depression.

Now, I will admit that it was New Deal works that transformed and upgraded our infrastructure and put us in a position to capitalize on being 1 of the 2 world powers still standing after the war.

(Just a side note - for your personal reflection: China builds infrastructure like we USED to do. China in 2000=USA in 1900)

But let's get some perspective - this health care system proposed by Obama is not socialized medicine (because it won't necessarily be a single-payer system) because it requires people to pay in from their pocket - not taxes. I would classify it as a payer subsidized expansion of Medicare. I'm still opposed to it however, because it is the proverbial "foot in the doorway" for full scale government run health care. I do feel, and would have no problem paying additional tax for, a system that guarantees health coverage for children and college students - with the caveat that it have mandatory preventative care aspects built in.

But then again, people think I'm nuts because I think JFK was the worst President we ever had - so take my opinion for what it is.

[savage4president]

lol those gosh darn socialist ideals... what have they done for our country other then bail us out of depression and turn us into a world power?

WheatCity gives you an excellent lesson in history. The only thing he did leave out was that the New Deal was very successful in restoring hope to a nation that had little. As far as bailing us out of depression and turning us into a world power...No, actually most historians believe the New Deal actually extended the depression.

[CarlE]

But then again, people think I'm nuts because I think JFK was the worst President we ever had - so take my opinion for what it is.

I don't think you're nuts. I think you're spot on. I've been saying for 20 years JFK sucked as a President. He couldn't get a Bill through Congress with a Bulldozer and well then there was that Bay of Pigs thing. Forget TV. Forget Camelot. The guy was a freaking joke as President.

[WheatCity]

I don't think you're nuts. I think you're spot on. I've been saying for 20 years JFK sucked as a President. He couldn't get a Bill through Congress with a Bulldozer and well then there was that Bay of Pigs thing. Forget TV. Forget Camelot. The guy was a freaking joke as President.

Full disclosure - I'm plan on getting my PhD in US Foreign Policy in Latin America, so my disdain for JFK lies in the Cuban Missle Crisis. Everyone applauds him for 'getting us out of it' but the fact is, we never had to be confronted with it. If would have embraced Cuba and maintained trade relations with them, Castro would have NEVER went to the Soviets for protection. JFK opened the door to those missles and nearly ended the world as we know it to 'stem the tide of communism'. Horse crap. Cuba is a socialist country so we can't trade with them? Then what the hell is Britain? Tony Blair, G Brown, Winston Churchill - ALL SOCIALISTS! I'll maintain to my dying day that our foreign policy has done more to harm the everday average Cuban that Castro ever has. In our 'free market,' we've limited choice to the American people.
Not only that, we had to compromise all of southern/western Europe to get those missles out. Krushchev took our young, inexperienced (ahem...) beloved President to the table and extended the Cold War by 10 years.

Back on topic...

Maybe our city council could come up with a resolution condemning Russia for the aggressive actions in Georgia while they are at it. I'm still pissed about them even talking about national healthcare. Whether or not it would help Massillonians in inconsequential. It is not the council's place. Maybe next council meeting, we could go and introduce a debate on Miller Lite - less carbs? or more filling? That should keep them occupied. Maybe we could have them take the Pepsi challenge? Lite Beer or Dark Beer? Who was the better husband in Bewitched - Dick York or Dick Sargeant? These are pressing issues vital to the community.

[WheatCity]

...socialist... :tonguewave:

POSTERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!
http://beiderbecke.typepad.com/tba/images/2008/02/28/obama_hope.jpg

[CATS44]

1) As Im sure my friend, Carle, knows, a resolution is hardly binding, nor is it a dictation.

2) Single provider healh care is NOT socialized medicine. There is a monumental difference.

3) While 'social' seems to be a dirty word, we would all be in pretty tough straits without some forms of socialism.

Our housing is socialized. (Subsidized by the Fed govt.)
Our highway system is socialized. (Ditto.)
Our educational system, from kindergarten thru grad school, is socialized. (Ditto.)
Unemployment insurance is a form of socialism.
Social security and Medicare/Medicaid is a form of socialism.

In every instance as these programs were introduced, there were anti Progressive folks who cried 'Socialism'.

[werperry]

POSTERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!
http://beiderbecke.typepad.com/tba/images/2008/02/28/obama_hope.jpg

http://http://celebritydeath.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/che-guevara.jpg

[TomcatTiger]

1) As Im sure my friend, Carle, knows, a resolution is hardly binding, nor is it a dictation.

2) Single provider healh care is NOT socialized medicine. There is a monumental difference.

3) While 'social' seems to be a dirty word, we would all be in pretty tough straits without some forms of socialism.

Our housing is socialized. (Subsidized by the Fed govt.)
Our highway system is socialized. (Ditto.)
Our educational system, from kindergarten thru grad school, is socialized. (Ditto.)
Unemployment insurance is a form of socialism.
Social security and Medicare/Medicaid is a form of socialism.

In every instance as these programs were introduced, there were anti Progressive folks who cried 'Socialism'.


And over the years we have seen shining examples of government failures in every instance you mentioned. I don't think our straights would be that tough if we let the private sector handle most of your list. I'm just sayin.

[GLM]

http://http://celebritydeath.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/che-guevara.jpg

Hope.............Less

[WheatCity]

And over the years we have seen shining examples of government failures in every instance you mentioned. I don't think our straights would be that tough if we let the private sector handle most of your list. I'm just sayin.

While there have been governmental failures in these programs, I think the concern is that you could have private firms profiting from unemployment or from people who are economically disadvantaged and in need of health care, etc. Privitazation is two fold - it makes things cheaper and more efficient, but it also has the ultimate goal of profit maximization. Alot of these programs are in place for times of hardship and I think there would be some serious cognitive dissonance for a good percentage of the population knowing that someone is making money off of it.

You need both social programs and private responsibilities, but there must be a balance. I don't know where the balance point is nor am I certain which candidate would get us there.

[savage4president]

1) As Im sure my friend, Carle, knows, a resolution is hardly binding, nor is it a dictation.

2) Single provider healh care is NOT socialized medicine. There is a monumental difference.

3) While 'social' seems to be a dirty word, we would all be in pretty tough straits without some forms of socialism.

Our housing is socialized. (Subsidized by the Fed govt.)
Our highway system is socialized. (Ditto.)
Our educational system, from kindergarten thru grad school, is socialized. (Ditto.)
Unemployment insurance is a form of socialism.
Social security and Medicare/Medicaid is a form of socialism.

In every instance as these programs were introduced, there were anti Progressive folks who cried 'Socialism'.

You are correct...and i'm against everything on this list.

[TomcatTiger]

While there have been governmental failures in these programs, I think the concern is that you could have private firms profiting from unemployment or from people who are economically disadvantaged and in need of health care, etc. Privitazation is two fold - it makes things cheaper and more efficient, but it also has the ultimate goal of profit maximization. Alot of these programs are in place for times of hardship and I think there would be some serious cognitive dissonance for a good percentage of the population knowing that someone is making money off of it.

You need both social programs and private responsibilities, but there must be a balance. I don't know where the balance point is nor am I certain which candidate would get us there.

I totally understand what you're saying. The only thing I would say differently is that when a company has the task of turning a profit (especially in the presence of competition) you will have the best available product in the marketplace or at the very least, increased choices. I know its probably difficult to use this principal in regards to something like unemployment insurance and things like that (purely for the "its never been done" aspect) but even so, I think the private sector (especially with the prospect of profit) could do a much better job at it then the black hole of government house. I agree with you that there needs to be a social aspect, in that government should just be making sure nothing illegal is taking place. Higher profit means reinvestment in the company which means assurance that the company will be able to offer the product (and in this case insurance benefits) in the future. Government writes everything into the budget which is where the problem begins.

[WheatCity]

I totally understand what you're saying. The only thing I would say differently is that when a company has the task of turning a profit (especially in the presence of competition) you will have the best available product in the marketplace or at the very least, increased choices. I know its probably difficult to use this principal in regards to something like unemployment insurance and things like that (purely for the "its never been done" aspect) but even so, I think the private sector (especially with the prospect of profit) could do a much better job at it then the black hole of government house. I agree with you that there needs to be a social aspect, in that government should just be making sure nothing illegal is taking place. Higher profit means reinvestment in the company which means assurance that the company will be able to offer the product (and in this case insurance benefits) in the future. Government writes everything into the budget which is where the problem begins.

But when the private entity working towards a public good begins to fail, the government is forced to step in and bail them out. See Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This produces an enormous amount of strain, because you now have mortgages, disability payment, road construction, penetentiaries(sp?,) and any other social program in flux with an indeterminable future.

I think that answer is that you need public/social programs with public/social responsibilities run by a single source - the federal government. The question is, "How do we make government more efficient as to provide the optimum product?" For this, I have no answer with the possible exception of private oversight committees, hired by concerned citizens to make recommendations or maybe with the ability to hire/fire/reorganize.

I think that we have lost the fact that the government is supposed to work for us - they are in our hire, a point made by both McCain and Obama.

[TomcatTiger]

But when the private entity working towards a public good begins to fail, the government is forced to step in and bail them out. See Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This produces an enormous amount of strain, because you now have mortgages, disability payment, road construction, penetentiaries(sp?,) and any other social program in flux with an indeterminable future.

I think that answer is that you need public/social programs with public/social responsibilities run by a single source - the federal government. The question is, "How do we make government more efficient as to provide the optimum product?" For this, I have no answer with the possible exception of private oversight committees, hired by concerned citizens to make recommendations or maybe with the ability to hire/fire/reorganize.

I think that we have lost the fact that the government is supposed to work for us - they are in our hire, a point made by both McCain and Obama.

I guess I just have a hard time believing that government has the basic ability to do anything well. Government today is comprised of people who have spent a lifetime "governing." Most of them have never run a business (obviously there are some exceptions) or done anything productive for society.

I also think that the failure of Freddie and Fannie are directly linked to government failure in the first place when they told lenders in the private sector who they would lend to and what the terms would be. You can't insure mortgages that are destined to fail when the goverment says to lenders "you have to lend to everyone regardless of thier credit risk and regardless if they can afford the loan terms." I think the bailout was inevitable. And now, an organization that was a combination of private and government is now beholden to the government.

I say the solution in just about every area not specified in the constitution is to reduce the size of government and encourage growth in the private sector but thats just me.